apoppin re-evaluates nvidia [Formerly nm] ... back to x1950p

[Paratus]

Before I sent it back I got 7200 3dm05 with an X1950PRO / P4-3.2E / 2 gigs 2-2-2-5 RAM at stock.

I'm going to test various benchmarks at speeds of 2.8-3.2-3.6 to see about bottlenecking. If I get a card that works that is.

posted via Palm Life Drive

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: happy medium
The 7800gs is this one right?

1024x768- 65.79
1280x1024 66.37
1600x1200 65.49

I bet 640x480 and 800x600 would be 65fps too.

Now if you fps dropped as you turned the resolution up you would be GPU limited.
My 7800gs does the same thing with CSS. To get the fps to drop I have to turn everything on high with aa/af at 1600x1200. At 1280x1024 and down my fps stays the same.

Now FEAR is a different story.
I can only run 1280x1024 at med settings for playable fps.

you're right.. what was i thinking?

 

[Captante]

Performance on par to a bit faster then an X850XT with slightly better IQ & CCC does suck even though ATI's drivers have improved tremendously ... no surprises here that I can see... I don't know what you were worried about because the GS is a decent mid-range card.

However your numbers for the X1950 Pro do seem very low for some reason ... might well be the P4 is choking it as has been said because it should score considerably higher ... my old 6800GT on an A64 3200+ @ 2.2ghz came pretty close to your numbers with the Pro in everything except Oblivion & thats just not right.

Bottom line is that I agree that you might have been best off just sitting on the X850XT & saving up for an 8800GTS with a faster CPU to push it, but I've done the same kind of thing more then once myself & hindsight vision is always 20/20!

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: lavaheadache
Apoppin, I'm sure your rig was just bottlenecking the crap out of your X1950pro. I'm pretty sure that 6500ish in 3dmark 05 is extremely low for that card, but in your rig it is probably dead on. My 8800GTX gets 12000 in 3dmark 05, but my X1900XT could get 10700. There is a lot more than 1300 3dmark power dfference between the 2 cards but my rig at the default resolution of 1024X768 just cant deliver enough muscle for the GTX to shine. In 3dmark 06 I was getting 5400 with the XT and hit 8300 with the GTX. Hmmm, bigger gap in a more graphic intensive benchmark at a higher rez... ie. 1280X1024. With your rig the 7800 gs is probably better suited as you dont have enough horsepower to utilize the X950pro. Looks like an end of the road for AGP I could be totally wrong

** edit: more likely an end of the road for the P4

Originally posted by: Captante
Performance on par to a bit faster then an X850XT with slightly better IQ & CCC does suck even though ATI's drivers have improved tremendously ... no surprises here that I can see... I don't know what you were worried about because the GS is a decent mid-range card.

However your numbers for the X1950 Pro do seem very low for some reason ... might well be the P4 is choking it as has been said because it should score considerably higher ... my old 6800GT on an A64 3200+ @ 2.2ghz came pretty close to your numbers with the Pro in everything except Oblivion & thats just not right.

Bottom line is that I agree that you might have been best off just sitting on the X850XT & saving up for an 8800GTS with a faster CPU to push it, but I've done the same kind of thing more then once myself & hindsight vision is always 20/20!

i gotta agree!

live and learn


it's only money
[probably 'lost' $50 total --if i can get $200 for my "brand-new-factory-sealed-freshly-back-from-Sapphire-with-the-"improved version" ]

i'm probably gonna sell my returned from RMA x1950p for the only money *loss* ... even at 3.31Ghz it can't break 7K in '05 ... and i DO get 6K with my GS at stock - i'll try coolbits and see if i can't push it up a few hundred more points to narrow the 'gap'

... IF i keep my Pro, i'd *need* a better PS ... more good money after bad ... even Paratus only got 7200 3dm05 with an X1950P / P4-3.2E / 2 gigs 2-2-2-5 RAM at stock. ... so mine just under 7K IS in line for our systems



and it's not that expensive - $160 after MIR for the 7800GS - as i do have more *details* and a more satisfactory experience with the 7800GS than with my x850xt .... gotta love HDR [!]

. . . and yes i always *hated* ati's CCC ... it hasn't 'changed' in a LONG time and it still totally sucks
:thumbsdown:

i hear there is a newer version

:roll:

 

[happy medium]

I've been trying to tell people that a Pent 4 would bottleneck a 1950pro, but no one wanted to here it. I knew my 7800gs was cpu limited except for FEAR or If I cranked up the resolution to 1600x1200 and aa/af. I think with AGP cards we are looking for more fps. Not cranking up the settings to match our cpu bottleneck.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: happy medium
I've been trying to tell people that a Pent 4 would bottleneck a 1950pro, but no one wanted to here it. I knew my 7800gs was cpu limited except for FEAR or If I cranked up the resolution to 1600x1200 and aa/af. I think with AGP cards we are looking for more fps. Not cranking up the settings to match our cpu bottleneck.

i/we knew that .,.. i was NOT looking for more FPS ... my x850xt already game me good FPS in EVERY game .... i wanted "eyecandy" ... "details" ... HDR
--if you have ANY doubts look at my posts in that long x1950p thread

my whole argument *for* upgrading from a x850xt was 1) details/eyecandy at the max resolution my CPU can handle and 2) SM3.0/HDR

it completely fulfilled my expectations and was a definite upgrade from my old GPU ... everything that was "marginal" on my 850 was now "maxed"

BUT it had "problems" and also didn't like my PS
[if it had NO problems, i would still be happily (if a bit ignorantly) gaming ...]

of course IF i had KNOWN about the 7800GS - and i STILL could NOT have saved money until it went on sale this month - i would have upgraded to it instead

all said, it's gonna cost me an "extra" 50 bucks ... the 'loss' on my x1950p

BUT - here's the really IMPORTANT question ...

How does this 7800GS purchase affect my *status* as an "ATi Fanboy" here?


:laugh:

 

[MustangSVT]

how much were you able to o/c it?

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: MustangSVT
how much were you able to o/c it?

i am *wrestling* with my scanner right now ... i was hoping to send my receipt copy to Sapphire -last night

and ZipZoomFly is *pathetic* with CS ... forget them
:thumbsdown:
i don't care if NewEgg is more expensive ... again live and learn ... glad it wasn't important

So ... i am OFF to work ... then the Scanner/Receipt ... THEN o/c'ing

after Fable



.... and i still perceived an an ATi fanboy ?


we'll see

:lips:

 

[happy medium]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: happy medium
I've been trying to tell people that a Pent 4 would bottleneck a 1950pro, but no one wanted to here it. I knew my 7800gs was cpu limited except for FEAR or If I cranked up the resolution to 1600x1200 and aa/af. I think with AGP cards we are looking for more fps. Not cranking up the settings to match our cpu bottleneck.

i/we knew that .,.. i was NOT looking for more FPS ... my x850xt already game me good FPS in EVERY game .... i wanted "eyecandy" ... "details" ... HDR
--if you have ANY doubts look at my posts in that long x1950p thread

my whole argument *for* upgrading from a x850xt was 1) details/eyecandy at the max resolution my CPU can handle and 2) SM3.0/HDR

it completely fulfilled my expectations and was a definite upgrade from my old GPU ... everything that was "marginal" on my 850 was now "maxed"

BUT it had "problems" and also didn't like my PS
[if it had NO problems, i would still be happily (if a bit ignorantly) gaming ...]

of course IF i had KNOWN about the 7800GS - and i STILL could NOT have saved money until it went on sale this month - i would have upgraded to it instead

all said, it's gonna cost me an "extra" 50 bucks ... the 'loss' on my x1950p

BUT - here's the really IMPORTANT question ...

How does this 7800GS purchase affect my *status* as an "ATi Fanboy" here?


:laugh:

That was not personally to you apoppin. I remember people saying it was ok to upgrade with a AMD Barton chip or a pent 2.8. I kept telling them "your not gonna see much difference with a 1950 pro". Most games out NOW I can use most of the eye candy with the 7800gs.

Hey if you have a pent 4 3.8 or AMd at 2.5 ,it might be worth it. If you have a pent 4 chances are your monitor is a 1280x1024 max or mabe 1600x1200. So your not cranking up the res anyway. Mabe some aa/af

 

[apoppin]

definitely some extra AA/AF ... and i game at 11x8 or 12x10 ... plus eyecandy

it is definitely also worth it to upgrade from an x850 to 7800GSoc just for that --considering $160-$100 for $60 would be a CHEAP upgrade
--forget the Sapphire

and i emailed everything BUT the receipt to the RMA department ... and requested a Fax number ... to get things moving
[i can troubleshoot the scanner later ... AFTER Fable ... AFTER o/c'ing]

and now i am LATE for work

 

[Stumps]

Originally posted by: happy medium

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: happy medium
I've been trying to tell people that a Pent 4 would bottleneck a 1950pro, but no one wanted to here it. I knew my 7800gs was cpu limited except for FEAR or If I cranked up the resolution to 1600x1200 and aa/af. I think with AGP cards we are looking for more fps. Not cranking up the settings to match our cpu bottleneck.

i/we knew that .,.. i was NOT looking for more FPS ... my x850xt already game me good FPS in EVERY game .... i wanted "eyecandy" ... "details" ... HDR
--if you have ANY doubts look at my posts in that long x1950p thread

my whole argument *for* upgrading from a x850xt was 1) details/eyecandy at the max resolution my CPU can handle and 2) SM3.0/HDR

it completely fulfilled my expectations and was a definite upgrade from my old GPU ... everything that was "marginal" on my 850 was now "maxed"

BUT it had "problems" and also didn't like my PS
[if it had NO problems, i would still be happily (if a bit ignorantly) gaming ...]

of course IF i had KNOWN about the 7800GS - and i STILL could NOT have saved money until it went on sale this month - i would have upgraded to it instead

all said, it's gonna cost me an "extra" 50 bucks ... the 'loss' on my x1950p

BUT - here's the really IMPORTANT question ...

How does this 7800GS purchase affect my *status* as an "ATi Fanboy" here?


:laugh:

That was not personally to you apoppin. I remember people saying it was ok to upgrade with a AMD Barton chip or a pent 2.8. I kept telling them "your not gonna see much difference with a 1950 pro". Most games out NOW I can use most of the eye candy with the 7800gs.

Hey if you have a pent 4 3.8 or AMd at 2.5 ,it might be worth it. If you have a pent 4 chances are your monitor is a 1280x1024 max or mabe 1600x1200. So your not cranking up the res anyway. Mabe some aa/af

yes, I do recall you saying that, but you need to remember...many people who use these forums don't have any real experience with these sort of things and would much rather quote figures from Tomshardware (Akshayt comes to mind) than listen to experience.

I did a few benchmarks using FEAR in the CPU forum comparing different AXP's with 6800, 6800GT and 7800GS not that long ago...most of the responses I got from that was that I had fudged the results because of the very small difference between graphics cards and CPU's....I pretty much gave up on that one..I got sick of recieving angry PM's telling me that a 2800+ or a 3000+ AXP isn't a bottleneck for higher end video cards...

 

[happy medium]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: happy medium
Try overclocken it yet? Thats where the performance really shines with these cards

not yet ... i guess use RivaTuner ... what should i aim for?

are there any automatic o/c'ing utilities to get it roughly ... then manually fine tune it?

. . . and it looks like g70 - not 71 - from the RT sub system report:

Graphics core: NV47/G70 revision A1 (16pp,6vp)

:Q

Well if you have the G70 version go for 500 core 1400 memory.( I have a G70) Use coolbits and use find optimum overclock feature.
I think Stumps has (had) the G71 core which has a faster core usually.

 

[Stumps]

Originally posted by: happy medium

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: happy medium
Try overclocken it yet? Thats where the performance really shines with these cards

not yet ... i guess use RivaTuner ... what should i aim for?

are there any automatic o/c'ing utilities to get it roughly ... then manually fine tune it?

. . . and it looks like g70 - not 71 - from the RT sub system report:

Graphics core: NV47/G70 revision A1 (16pp,6vp)

:Q

Well if you have the G70 version go for 500 core 1400 memory.( I have a G70) Use coolbits and use find optimum overclock feature.
I think Stumps has (had) the G71 core which has a faster core usually.

yep, G71 REV A2 (16pp, 6vp).

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: happy medium

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: happy medium
Try overclocken it yet? Thats where the performance really shines with these cards

not yet ... i guess use RivaTuner ... what should i aim for?

are there any automatic o/c'ing utilities to get it roughly ... then manually fine tune it?

. . . and it looks like g70 - not 71 - from the RT sub system report:

Graphics core: NV47/G70 revision A1 (16pp,6vp)

:Q

Well if you have the G70 version go for 500 core 1400 memory.( I have a G70) Use coolbits and use find optimum overclock feature.
I think Stumps has (had) the G71 core which has a faster core usually.

Coolbits was a little *optimistic* ... it reported 500/2.67 as "attainable" ... it wasn't quite stable ... i found some lower setting but didn't like the fan noise ...

so as a *working compromise* i settled on 450/1300 from 7800's already OC'd 400/1250 ... as quiet as stock plus my 3DMarkO5 scores increased from 5869 to 6419 ... very close to the x1950p in my rig [which i think finally topped right at 7K] ... BEST of all i can keep my CPU OC.

and you couldn't PAY me to keep that PoS Sapphire in my case now ...
:Q

*WhatEver* you do *Don't* buy a Sapphire!*WhatEver*
Topic Summary: Their RMA Process costs $15 and it sucks ... LAST Sapphire for me

Please fill out this RMA form as much as you can and email it back to RMA@althonmicro.com along with a copy of the purchase receipt. Once we receive your RMA form we will process it for you and get back with you with an assign RMA#, please do not return your card back with out a RMA# or else all shipment will be rejected. There will be a US$15 dollar processing fee (Which takes care of the repacking and insurance of your return product) for this RMA service, so please include a US$15 money order (if Canadian customer (US$30)

what kind of scam is this? :|

pay Retail for a defective PoS, have it fail on Day 31 --then pay $15 to get a RMA number ... send it at my expense and they will probably send another *defective* back


or do other manufacturers do this?



all i can say ... for me ... absolutely NEVER again Sapphire
:thumbsdown:

i can answer my own question about my *status* here

:brokenheart:

 

[happy medium]

Yea I have the fan set to run 100% all the time. I've been running mine at 490,1440 for allmost a year so it's safe.
I watch the temperature which is 41c at idle and 59 under gaming conditions.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: happy medium
Yea I have the fan set to run 100% all the time. I've been running mine at 490,1440 for allmost a year so it's safe.
I watch the temperature which is 41c at idle and 59 under gaming conditions.

how can you stand it?
:Q

my x850xt was about that loud when it was stressed


idle temps is around 45 ... to 60+ in gaming

heck ... even *stock* is fine ... i figure 450/1300 is WAY over the g70's reference of 375/1200 ... and it is just as *quiet*

BTW, i am just getting *into* nvidia's control panel


VEERY NICE!

at least compared to the abortion that is CCC

 

[happy medium]

I wear headphones.:laugh::beer:

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: happy medium
I wear headphones.:laugh::beer:

so if i crank up the APG voltage a bit ...

500/1350 here we come


maybe not ... i already have one defective card in RMA process [that Sapphire x1950PoS will cost $30 to get back and will probably fail again]

 

[Stumps]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: happy medium
I wear headphones.:laugh::beer:

so if i crank up the APG voltage a bit ...

500/1350 here we come


maybe not ... i already have one defective card in RMA process [that Sapphire x1950PoS will cost $30 to get back and will probably fail again]

Just one Question Apoppin, what HSF unit does your BFG have on it? the big copper one with the clear fan, or the ugly reference one with the green fan?

 

[ronnn]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: happy medium
I wear headphones.:laugh::beer:

so if i crank up the APG voltage a bit ...

500/1350 here we come


maybe not ... i already have one defective card in RMA process [that Sapphire x1950PoS will cost $30 to get back and will probably fail again]

Failed again? How lucky for you. :thumbsdown:

 

[apoppin]

it's a big heavy copper HSF with a blue fan ... the case is also glowing blue inside from the card's light


ok gonna shut it down and take a real look

back in a few

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: ronnn

Originally posted by: apoppin

so if i crank up the APG voltage a bit ...

500/1350 here we come


maybe not ... i already have one defective card in RMA process [that Sapphire x1950PoS will cost $30 to get back and will probably fail again]

Failed again? How lucky for you. :thumbsdown:

You can't read or can't comprehend?


your the one that 'believes' theInq
:roll:

anyway, i checked - it is a Clear fan and a copper HSF ... with a blue backlight
:wine:

 

[Noema]

Nice that you are enjoying your card apoppin. I've owned a XFX7800GS for over 10 months now and it has behaved beautifully. The card is silent, the drivers are solid and performance is good.

 

[Stumps]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: ronnn

Originally posted by: apoppin

so if i crank up the APG voltage a bit ...

500/1350 here we come


maybe not ... i already have one defective card in RMA process [that Sapphire x1950PoS will cost $30 to get back and will probably fail again]

Failed again? How lucky for you. :thumbsdown:

You can't read or can't comprehend?


your the one that 'believes' theInq
:roll:

anyway, i checked - it is a Clear fan and a copper HSF ... with a blue backlight
:wine:

and it is a G70 core....interesting...

 

[apoppin]

'interesting', how?

o/c's good or just 'fair'?

i run it at 450/1300 so the fan stays as low as it does at stock ... mugh higher was driving me nuts ... i think ~6,500 in 3DMark05 is about right for my rig overall considering my 2.80c is at 3.30Ghz with a mild boost ... it would take much higher voltage to get it to 3.4 and there is a point of diminishing returns in O/C'ing

btw ... once i figured out what CoolBits *does* [using RivaTuner, of course] i was able to get into some of the Advanced Features of the CP ... very cool

. . . and a welcome *relief* from CCC
:Q


i gotta tell you it is kinda *weird* for me to be talking so positively about a nvidia card