apoppin re-evaluates nvidia [Formerly nm] ... back to x1950p

[1EZduzit]

Thanks for the reply appopin. I bought an "almost new" used BFG 6800GT a while back and am quite happy with it, still it cost me $150 about a year ago so $160 for the 7800GS seems like a pretty good deal to me, but if they don't come out with some good DX10 AGP cards I may be forced to upgrade (to a pci-e system)..... but not until then.

 

[CrystalBay]

BFG's are great cards...

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: CrystalBay
BFG's are great cards...

let me be more specific

the agp BFG 7800GS OC is a *great* value for $160

i am in *serious shock*


now if you guys will "excuse me" ... i have some further *research* with the 7800Gs that needs to be carried out ... tonight

*cough*

 

[Paratus]

Hmm. If my new new X1950Pro (when it gets here - sent the first back to Amazon) fails again I guess I know what I'm getting..............

Right now it's back to the jaw dropping & not in a good way 9600XT.

 

[nitromullet]

Sweet, I like that fact that someone esle who has tried both came up with the same conclusion as me: Both ATI and NV make damn fine video cards.

 

[Stumps]

Originally posted by: CrystalBay
BFG's are great cards...

Yes...they are very well built, I was impressed with how well built my 7800GS OC was... and how well it performed, especially when overclocked.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: nitromullet
Sweet, I like that fact that someone esle who has tried both came up with the same conclusion as me: Both ATI and NV make damn fine video cards.

i *dare anyone* to take a blindfold test and tell which monitor is powered by nvidia and which is powered by ATi .... now

it's like comparing fine audio components ... everyone will have *preferences* ... and perhaps be swayed by "features" or subtle differences ... but as in audio, it would be NO problem for me to have a GPU by either company ....


sometimes one company 'pulls ahead' and sometimes one lays a big turd [*cough* NV30 ... x1800 ... Sapphire x1950p ... 8800 drivers... r600 timing ... whatever] but each company generally make a fine produce and we have great choice ...
... mostly my choices were influenced by *price* ... this time ... imo, agp 7800GS 'wins' in it's class

When x1950p/512Mb falls into the sub$200 range [and fixes their defectives] ... it'll move in ATi's favor

===============

Originally posted by: Paratus
Hmm. If my new new X1950Pro (when it gets here - sent the first back to Amazon) fails again I guess I know what I'm getting..............

Right now it's back to the jaw dropping & not in a good way 9600XT.

Sapphire?


:|
=====================

Originally posted by: Stumps

Originally posted by: CrystalBay
BFG's are great cards...

Yes...they are very well built, I was impressed with how well built my 7800GS OC was... and how well it performed, especially when overclocked.

that's next ...

i am having too much fun with Fable and it's running maxed so i haven't bothered ... yet

 

[Stumps]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: nitromullet
Sweet, I like that fact that someone esle who has tried both came up with the same conclusion as me: Both ATI and NV make damn fine video cards.

i *dare anyone* to take a blindfold test and tell which monitor is powered by nvidia and which is powered by ATi .... now

it's like comparing fine audio components ... everyone will have *preferences* ... and perhaps be swayed by "features" or subtle differences ... but as in audio, it would be NO problem for me to have a GPU by either company ....


sometimes one company 'pulls ahead' and sometimes one lays a big turd [*cough* NV30 ... x1800 ... Sapphire x1950p ... 8800 drivers... r600 timing ... whatever] but each company generally make a fine produce and we have great choice ...
... mostly my choices were influenced by *price* ... this time ... imo, agp 7800GS 'wins' in it's class

When x1950p/512Mb falls into the sub$200 range [and fixes their defectives] ... it'll move in ATi's favor

===============

Originally posted by: Paratus
Hmm. If my new new X1950Pro (when it gets here - sent the first back to Amazon) fails again I guess I know what I'm getting..............

Right now it's back to the jaw dropping & not in a good way 9600XT.

Sapphire?


:|
=====================

Originally posted by: Stumps

Originally posted by: CrystalBay
BFG's are great cards...

Yes...they are very well built, I was impressed with how well built my 7800GS OC was... and how well it performed, especially when overclocked.

that's next ...

i am having too much fun with Fable and it's running maxed so i haven't bothered ... yet

yeah, the 7800GS is pretty good a stock speeds, not the big let down that many members of this forum made it out to be...

 

[Keysplayr]

So you have a very sour taste in your mouth from the Sapphire X1950 eh? Understandable, but maybe you and a few others got your cards from a bad batch. It's happened before and will happen again. Sapphire makes good stuff and has been making cards for ATI for forever and a day.

Good to see you can enjoy an nvidia product after not owning one for so long and find out for yourself that, they really don't suck . (You mentioned GeForce 256 as your last one?)

My last ATI card was an ASUS X800XTPE. Nice card. At the same time I owned a BFG 6800GT. Now, on paper and review sites, the X800XTPE spanks the 6800GT, but having both I can tell you, the GT felt just as fast, more fluid or "smoothe", and the image quality was just as fine as the ATI card. AND it was a lot cheaper. (I paid 425 for the XTPE used, ouch. And paid 400.00 for the GT brand new, still ouch, but new).

I'm due for a new card as I am now shopping for a 20-24" widescreen and need a card to support the resolutions. Not ready for G80 yet. Will wait for R600 and see what is what. I have until July so no time pressure here.

My sympathies on your dead X1950pro, and congrats on your 7800GS! Enjoy!!

 

[Paratus]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: nitromullet
Sweet, I like that fact that someone esle who has tried both came up with the same conclusion as me: Both ATI and NV make damn fine video cards.

i *dare anyone* to take a blindfold test and tell which monitor is powered by nvidia and which is powered by ATi .... now

it's like comparing fine audio components ... everyone will have *preferences* ... and perhaps be swayed by "features" or subtle differences ... but as in audio, it would be NO problem for me to have a GPU by either company ....


sometimes one company 'pulls ahead' and sometimes one lays a big turd [*cough* NV30 ... x1800 ... Sapphire x1950p ... 8800 drivers... r600 timing ... whatever] but each company generally make a fine produce and we have great choice ...
... mostly my choices were influenced by *price* ... this time ... imo, agp 7800GS 'wins' in it's class

When x1950p/512Mb falls into the sub$200 range [and fixes their defectives] ... it'll move in ATi's favor

===============

Originally posted by: Paratus
Hmm. If my new new X1950Pro (when it gets here - sent the first back to Amazon) fails again I guess I know what I'm getting..............

Right now it's back to the jaw dropping & not in a good way 9600XT.

Sapphire?


:|
=====================

Originally posted by: Stumps

Originally posted by: CrystalBay
BFG's are great cards...

Yes...they are very well built, I was impressed with how well built my 7800GS OC was... and how well it performed, especially when overclocked.

that's next ...

i am having too much fun with Fable and it's running maxed so i haven't bothered ... yet

No Diamond Viper except the PCB is blue, extra tall, & has 2 molexes on it......................

So ya it's a sapphire

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
So you have a very sour taste in your mouth from the Sapphire X1950 eh? Understandable, but maybe you and a few others got your cards from a bad batch. It's happened before and will happen again. Sapphire makes good stuff and has been making cards for ATI for forever and a day.

Good to see you can enjoy an nvidia product after not owning one for so long and find out for yourself that, they really don't suck . (You mentioned GeForce 256 as your last one?)

My last ATI card was an ASUS X800XTPE. Nice card. At the same time I owned a BFG 6800GT. Now, on paper and review sites, the X800XTPE spanks the 6800GT, but having both I can tell you, the GT felt just as fast, more fluid or "smoothe", and the image quality was just as fine as the ATI card. AND it was a lot cheaper. (I paid 425 for the XTPE used, ouch. And paid 400.00 for the GT brand new, still ouch, but new).

I'm due for a new card as I am now shopping for a 20-24" widescreen and need a card to support the resolutions. Not ready for G80 yet. Will wait for R600 and see what is what. I have until July so no time pressure here.

My sympathies on your dead X1950pro, and congrats on your 7800GS! Enjoy!!

fortunately the x1950p IS covered by a warranty ... and i *expect* they are sending cards that are *fixed* [hopefully] ... if i get a 2nd "bad" card ... then i will have a 'bad taste' for Sapphire ...

right now - as it stands - getting a defective ATi product has allowed me to *experience* a great nvidia card ... so it isn't 'all bad' ... just a little out of pocket money spent ... one of these cards is getting returned [or sold]

i *knew* nvidia cards do not suck ... otOh ... their fanboys are as bad as ATi fanboys ... and IF you gotta pick on *someone* ... well, Rollo and his fans were too much for me to 'take' ... so i sided with ATi in the discussions here ... and Viral marketing [yes i *know* ati does it also] irritates the crap outta me.
[that is really *all* ... believe-it-or-not ... so now you know]

i had the *opposite* experience as you ... ATi cards were always cheaper ... i got my 9800xt for really cheap, the x850xt cost me $200 last January ... and the Sapphire was the only ATi card i *splurged* on by paying fullprice ... and the only one i am diappointed with ... see the 'pattern'?

i really wanted a 6800u .... in fact i upgraded my PS to 480w over 3 years ago in anticipation of it ... well, now i finally got it's 'upgrade'

as to future purchases ... r600's having 250w power consumption is a definite turn-off for me ... i know DAAMiT wants the crown so badly it looks like they are really cranking up the core and memory ... and i think the r600 will really kick GTX' butt ... initially... until nvidia get a better hand on their drivers.

 

[terentenet]

Originally posted by: apoppin
as to future purchases ... r600's having 250w power consumption is a definite turn-off for me ... i know DAAMiT wants the crown so badly it looks like they are really cranking up the core and memory ... and i think the r600 will really kick GTX' butt ... initially... until nvidia get a better hand on their drivers.

it's been a couple of months since nvidia released the 8 series. we should be expecting them to release a new high end. that's most likely to happen sometime after r600 is out. that's only if r600 leaves 8800gtx in the dust. if the performance delta is 10%, they will fight it in drivers and speed binned chips.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: terentenet

Originally posted by: apoppin
as to future purchases ... r600's having 250w power consumption is a definite turn-off for me ... i know DAAMiT wants the crown so badly it looks like they are really cranking up the core and memory ... and i think the r600 will really kick GTX' butt ... initially... until nvidia get a better hand on their drivers.

it's been a couple of months since nvidia released the 8 series. we should be expecting them to release a new high end. that's most likely to happen sometime after r600 is out. that's only if r600 leaves 8800gtx in the dust. if the performance delta is 10%, they will fight it in drivers and speed binned chips.

yep ... 8900 ... and i think it will generally be over 20% ... initially ... DAAMiT is going for broke
[that's a *blowout*]


ANYWAY,

i really like my 7800GS ... on initial inspection and use it is a very nice card ... especially for the price

and i *will* get down to benchmarking and O/C'ing ... RivaTuner is new to me ...

but FIRST, i have some games to catch up on... i am having too much fun with Fable to care abut the little details as everything is running nearly maxed ...

expect an update from time to time over the next 3-1/2 weeks or so

[thought i'd warn you]

 

[happy medium]

Try overclocken it yet? Thats where the performance really shines with these cards

 

[CaiNaM]

glad it's workin for you apoppin.

hmmm.. so, can anyone tell me if is there something different with the g71 based 7800GS (other than more OC potential)? i thought the specs were identical other than the fab process...

mine was g70 based, and other than overclocking to 500 core (forget what i got the memory to), i was not impressed with the performance. it was $300 at the time, and kept my 6800GT as it didn't offer much performance increase of it for the cost.

edit: found an old benchmark from back then:

7800GS 490mhz/1.4ghz

Operating System: Windows XP Professional (5.1, Build 2600) Service Pack 2 (2600.xpsp_sp2_gdr.050301-1519)
Processor: AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3000+, MMX, 3DNow, ~2.2GHz
Memory: 1024MB RAM
DirectX Version: DirectX 9.0c (4.09.0000.0904)
Card name: NVIDIA GeForce 7800 GS
Driver Version: 6.14.0010.8198

Map: Fort Demo: BenchemallDefaultDemo

Custom config file: C:\Program Files\BenchemAll\items\FarCry\4xaa_8xaf_system.cfg
640x480 not selected
800x600 not selected
1024x768
run# 0: Average FPS: 65.79

1280x1024
run# 0: Average FPS: 66.37

1600x1200
run# 0: Average FPS: 65.49

2048x1536 not selected

6800GT (430 on core iirc):

Operating System: Windows XP Professional (5.1, Build 2600) Service Pack 2 (2600.xpsp_sp2_gdr.050301-1519)
Processor: AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3000+, MMX, 3DNow, ~2.2GHz
Memory: 1024MB RAM
DirectX Version: DirectX 9.0c (4.09.0000.0904)
Card name: NVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT
Driver Version: 6.14.0010.8185

Far Cry

Map: Fort Demo: BenchemallDefaultDemo

Custom config file: C:\Program Files\BenchemAll\items\FarCry\4xaa_8xaf_system.cfg
640x480 not selected
800x600 not selected
1024x768
run# 0: Average FPS: 66.90

1280x1024
run# 0: Average FPS: 56.23

1600x1200
run# 0: Average FPS: 56.07

2048x1536 not selected

 

[happy medium]

Originally posted by: CaiNaM
glad it's workin for you apoppin.

hmmm.. so, can anyone tell me if is there something different with the g71 based 7800GS (other than more OC potential)? i thought the specs were identical other than the fab process...

mine was g70 based, and other than overclocking to 500 core (forget what i got the memory to), i was not impressed with the performance. it was $300 at the time, and kept my 6800GT as it didn't offer much performance increase of it for the cost.

edit: found an old benchmark from back then:

7800GS 490mhz/1.4ghz

Operating System: Windows XP Professional (5.1, Build 2600) Service Pack 2 (2600.xpsp_sp2_gdr.050301-1519)
Processor: AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3000+, MMX, 3DNow, ~2.2GHz
Memory: 1024MB RAM
DirectX Version: DirectX 9.0c (4.09.0000.0904)
Card name: NVIDIA GeForce 7800 GS
Driver Version: 6.14.0010.8198

Map: Fort Demo: BenchemallDefaultDemo

Custom config file: C:\Program Files\BenchemAll\items\FarCry\4xaa_8xaf_system.cfg
640x480 not selected
800x600 not selected
1024x768
run# 0: Average FPS: 65.79

1280x1024
run# 0: Average FPS: 66.37

1600x1200
run# 0: Average FPS: 65.49

2048x1536 not selected

6800GT (430 on core iirc):

Operating System: Windows XP Professional (5.1, Build 2600) Service Pack 2 (2600.xpsp_sp2_gdr.050301-1519)
Processor: AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3000+, MMX, 3DNow, ~2.2GHz
Memory: 1024MB RAM
DirectX Version: DirectX 9.0c (4.09.0000.0904)
Card name: NVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT
Driver Version: 6.14.0010.8185

Far Cry

Map: Fort Demo: BenchemallDefaultDemo

Custom config file: C:\Program Files\BenchemAll\items\FarCry\4xaa_8xaf_system.cfg
640x480 not selected
800x600 not selected
1024x768
run# 0: Average FPS: 66.90

1280x1024
run# 0: Average FPS: 56.23

1600x1200
run# 0: Average FPS: 56.07

2048x1536 not selected

Cpu limited in that game with the 7800gs.

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: CrystalBay
BFG's are great cards...

My only BFG card was a piece of junk... it actually STILL is as I haven't had it sent back for RMA (no card to replace it with). It has some easily noticeable "white noise" issues that make me believe the memory on the card isn't good .

Although I'd still be willing to buy their cards as they still have a great reputation and it seems I got one of the few lemons .

Oh and with that, you know it's bad that I've thought about replacing my 8800GTX with that busted card so I can actually compute properly again.

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: happy medium
Cpu limited in that game with the 7800gs.

only at 1024....

 

[happy medium]

Originally posted by: CaiNaM

Originally posted by: happy medium
Cpu limited in that game with the 7800gs.

only at 1024....

The 7800gs is this one right?

1024x768- 65.79
1280x1024 66.37
1600x1200 65.49

I bet 640x480 and 800x600 would be 65fps too.

Now if you fps dropped as you turned the resolution up you would be GPU limited.
My 7800gs does the same thing with CSS. To get the fps to drop I have to turn everything on high with aa/af at 1600x1200. At 1280x1024 and down my fps stays the same.

Now FEAR is a different story.
I can only run 1280x1024 at med settings for playable fps.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: happy medium
Try overclocken it yet? Thats where the performance really shines with these cards

not yet ... i guess use RivaTuner ... what should i aim for?

are there any automatic o/c'ing utilities to get it roughly ... then manually fine tune it?

. . . and it looks like g70 - not 71 - from the RT sub system report:

Graphics core: NV47/G70 revision A1 (16pp,6vp)

i imagine i am CPU limited right now ... i still haven't set it back to 3.31Ghz
--i left it set back to 3.01Ghz to keep my Sapphire stable ... makes sense... right?


ANYway ... i am *stuck* on Fable ... it is such a great *twisted* little game ... reminds me of A.McGee's Alice ... i have about 15 hours into it ... the "Arena" was a blast ... i just missed the challenge to do it in the nude [accidently] but probably wouldn't have had enough potions anyway to 'win'
--about to marry the rich bitch ... and got a marriage proposal in the meantime - from a guy
:Q

ANYway - with Fable - i AM at *max* at 11x8 with 4xAA and i just added Vsynch [which i never used before with any card as i just don't see tearing (much) ... but it still runs great!]

Running FEAR's Xpack at 10x7 ... even with the x850xt and the x1950p ... higher res gets some [rare] slowdowns to low 20s ... only the x1950p had ALL the settings hi ... the GS has a 'few' at med. The X-pack is more sluggish then the FEAR game ... can't really see any big improvement [unless you count *more* effects]

and Aikouka, doesn't your old BFG have a lifetime warranty? ... my GS does

... so far i haven't needed the 24/7 BFG free tech support

my VisionTek x1950p/256M scored 6537 3Dmark05 score and i think my Sapphire was just over 6600 and a shade under 6,000 for the stock GS [P4 at 3.01Ghz for the Sapphire and the BFG/ 3.2Ghz for the VisionTek ... i'll try it again for the GS at 3.31Ghz] ... so they are all in the *same range* ... competitive cards ... more-or-less --on MY system

i really wouldn't mind keeping the GS ... heck i am sorry [now ... almost for the money spent but not for the experience gained] i just didn't keep my x850xt and O/C the crap outta it ... at any rate, i won't make that decision till i get my Sapphire back [probably, depending on how long it takes and what i can sell it for]

 

[308nato]

Glad you like your card

I replaced a 9500Pro with my GS the day of release. Quiet, runs cool, gameplay smooth like butter. I keep debating trying a 1950pro and giving this 7800 to my brother, but, I seem to have become attached. I haven't even tried to overclock it yet after having it all this time. :Q

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: 308nato
Glad you like your card

I replaced a 9500Pro with my GS the day of release. Quiet, runs cool, gameplay smooth like butter. I keep debating trying a 1950pro and giving this 7800 to my brother, but, I seem to have become attached. I haven't even tried to overclock it yet after having it all this time. :Q

i do

make sure your PS is 'up' to a x1950p's standards [450w min/30a on the 12v rail] if you decide to "upgrade" ... i'd say it is about 10-15% faster ... maybe

 

[lavaheadache]

Apoppin, I'm sure your rig was just bottlenecking the crap out of your X1950pro. I'm pretty sure that 6500ish in 3dmark 05 is extremely low for that card, but in your rig it is probably dead on. My 8800GTX gets 12000 in 3dmark 05, but my X1900XT could get 10700. There is a lot more than 1300 3dmark power dfference between the 2 cards but my rig at the default resolution of 1024X768 just cant deliver enough muscle for the GTX to shine. In 3dmark 06 I was getting 5400 with the XT and hit 8300 with the GTX. Hmmm, bigger gap in a more graphic intensive benchmark at a higher rez... ie. 1280X1024. With your rig the 7800 gs is probably better suited as you dont have enough horsepower to utilize the X950pro. Looks like an end of the road for AGP I could be totally wrong

** edit: more likely an end of the road for the P4

 

[Stumps]

Originally posted by: lavaheadache
Apoppin, I'm sure your rig was just bottlenecking the crap out of your X1950pro. I'm pretty sure that 6500ish in 3dmark 05 is extremely low for that card, but in your rig it is probably dead on. My 8800GTX gets 12000 in 3dmark 05, but my X1900XT could get 10700. There is a lot more than 1300 3dmark power dfference between the 2 cards but my rig at the default resolution of 1024X768 just cant deliver enough muscle for the GTX to shine. In 3dmark 06 I was getting 5400 with the XT and hit 8300 with the GTX. Hmmm, bigger gap in a more graphic intensive benchmark at a higher rez... ie. 1280X1024. With your rig the 7800 gs is probably better suited as you dont have enough horsepower to utilize the X950pro. Looks like an end of the road for AGP I could be totally wrong

yep, it's very low, I get a tad over 9500 in 3dmark05, but his rig even bottlenecks the 7800GS a bit, I was able to get over 7500 with the same rig before I upgraded to the X1950.

But even now with the 7800GS in my 3.45ghz P4 it barely gets over 6000 running at 550/1350, I guess P4's are a bigger bottleneck than A64's

 

[Munky]

On a 2.6ghz A64 I used to get over 7000 in 3dmark05 on an oc'd x850xt, so it looks like the P4 was holding back the x1950pro, and the 7800gs also.