apoppin re-evaluates nvidia [Formerly nm] ... back to x1950p

[Bateluer]

Methinks you have too much money to spend, apoppin.

I just bought a 650w Seasonic for my system to replace a 450w Fortron. I think I was running the Fortron close to its limits, with my X2 4200, 4 hdds, 3 DVDroms, 1900XT, the 12cm fans, etc. The Seasonic seems to do a much better job at powering everything. I haven't experienced any of the little, odd quircks that occurred under the Fortron.

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: GstanforI was referring to titles such as Vampire: Bloodlines, FEAR, Oblivion,Half-Life2, Hitman blood money, Settlers 2 10th Anniverary, Farcry, Medieval 2 Total War, Flatout 2, Boiling Point to name but a few.

umm..yea, we all know FEAR and Oblivion run well with at high res with AA on nv40 hardware...

stick to your Hello Kitty games. at least that's believable.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Bateluer
Methinks you have too much money to spend, apoppin.

I just bought a 650w Seasonic for my system to replace a 450w Fortron. I think I was running the Fortron close to its limits, with my X2 4200, 4 hdds, 3 DVDroms, 1900XT, the 12cm fans, etc. The Seasonic seems to do a much better job at powering everything. I haven't experienced any of the little, odd quircks that occurred under the Fortron.

too much money or too much "credit" ?

IF i had "too much money to spend" i would *dump* my current rig for a sli'd 8800gtx/conroe rig ... in an 'instant' and this thread would not have existed

letsee if i understand you ... *you* can upgrade ... but i should just stick with 'junk'
:Q

i guess what you are saying is that 650w is fine for your system --but what about x-fire and o/c'd [i expect to have 4 raptors in raid also]

760w sounds *puny* ...
:shocked:


and thanks for the reminder ...
i'm OFF to work to try and pay for current and future purchases
[which is better than having to pay for past purchases ]

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: apoppin
realistically IF i keep my x1950p ... i am looking at this PS by Fortron

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817104026

$170 after $15 MIR

FSP Group (Fortron Source) FX Series FX760-E ATX | EPS Quad 12V 760W Maximum Power Supply - Retail

but i am not sure if it will be*enough* for a loaded and o/c'd Dual/Quad-core/SLI or xfire rig

decisions . . . decisions

I bought a PC Power and Cooling 750W Silencer for about $225. I couldn't be more happy with it, although it is an ugly copper color. There are supposedly elusive black versions out in the wild, but I haven't found one yet nor did NewEgg have any.

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: apoppin
realistically IF i keep my x1950p ... i am looking at this PS by Fortron

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817104026

$170 after $15 MIR

FSP Group (Fortron Source) FX Series FX760-E ATX | EPS Quad 12V 760W Maximum Power Supply - Retail

but i am not sure if it will be*enough* for a loaded and o/c'd Dual/Quad-core/SLI or xfire rig

decisions . . . decisions

corsair (seasonic), silverstone.... there are better options out there.

ocz gamexstream (which, incidently is based on the FSP epsilon series you list) is actually a better buy ($134.99 after $25.00 mir @ the egg; $20 cheaper plus free shipping @ ZZF) plus a longer warranty, however it doesn't rate well under high loads:

"Things were satisfactory until test 3. During test 3, I started to see ripple on 12V1 and 12V2 that was nearly 100mV. By test 5, the ripple was 100mV on 12V3 and 12V4 and had exceeded 100mV on 12V1 and 12V2. By test 6, the ripple on 12V1 and 12V2 had exceeded 150mV.

ATX specification has an "allowance" for 120mV. Mind you, test 6 was very stressful, pushing the power supply to it's limits, but it doesn't change the fact that the ripple exceeded spec and this is the first power supply to date I have had do this.

What's wrong with two much ripple? Well, if the voltage fluctuates too erratically, it can over work other regulators used to provide Vcore to the CPU, GPU, etc.

A representative of OCZ did find my findings concerning and asked that I return the unit for an exchange. I did so, and in the interim I obtained an FSP Epsilon 600W. The 600W version of the power supply the OCZ GameXstream is based on. In testing that unit, I found a good deal of ripple as well. When a brand new GameXstream was finally returned to me, I immediately plugged it in and found the same results as the first sample.

Fortunately, it is very unlikely any of us will have one of these power supplies at or above 400W, at least for any considerable period of time, but this high ripple measurement will be taken into consideration when calculating the performance score."

full review

check out that site; it's the most informative when it comes to power supplies.

as stated it's out of spec only when under extreme load, tho that could get worse after time, but hey.. if you're spending almost $200 for a friggin power supply, shouldn't you expect better?

 

[olmer]

Had both [in PCIE] while deciding with what to upgrade my 7600gt. Sapphire?s 1950 pro 512mb went back straight away ? very cheap and noisy cooling solution. GeCube?s 1950 Pro 512 had better cooling, but no option of overclocking/tempr. reading unless you mess with bios. XFX 7900gs ? noisy fan and low performance ? same as my old 7600gt. 7950GT [Leadtek] is okay with aftermarket cooler, but since it was only 256mb for the same money ? I now have GeCube with Accelero 2.

It is much easier here in the UK - 14 days distance selling regulations rule - no collection charge, no silly re-stocking fees - all charges are refunded if you do not like the product.

Between 7950gt and 1950pro ? no real difference in the games i play [Oblivion, DM, WoW, Heroes V, FO2 @ 1600x1200] ? a bit faster loading with pro due to 512mb.

 

[nullpointerus]

nVidia's Vista driver policies spawn terror cell

:Q

 

[Nightmare225]

:Q

 

[Modular]

lmao

 

[Bateluer]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Bateluer
Methinks you have too much money to spend, apoppin.

I just bought a 650w Seasonic for my system to replace a 450w Fortron. I think I was running the Fortron close to its limits, with my X2 4200, 4 hdds, 3 DVDroms, 1900XT, the 12cm fans, etc. The Seasonic seems to do a much better job at powering everything. I haven't experienced any of the little, odd quircks that occurred under the Fortron.

too much money or too much "credit" ?

IF i had "too much money to spend" i would *dump* my current rig for a sli'd 8800gtx/conroe rig ... in an 'instant' and this thread would not have existed

letsee if i understand you ... *you* can upgrade ... but i should just stick with 'junk'
:Q

i guess what you are saying is that 650w is fine for your system --but what about x-fire and o/c'd [i expect to have 4 raptors in raid also]

760w sounds *puny* ...
:shocked:


and thanks for the reminder ...
i'm OFF to work to try and pay for current and future purchases
[which is better than having to pay for past purchases ]

Just get the PC Power and Cooling 1KW PSU and be done with it.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: Bateluer

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Bateluer
Methinks you have too much money to spend, apoppin.

I just bought a 650w Seasonic for my system to replace a 450w Fortron. I think I was running the Fortron close to its limits, with my X2 4200, 4 hdds, 3 DVDroms, 1900XT, the 12cm fans, etc. The Seasonic seems to do a much better job at powering everything. I haven't experienced any of the little, odd quircks that occurred under the Fortron.

too much money or too much "credit" ?

IF i had "too much money to spend" i would *dump* my current rig for a sli'd 8800gtx/conroe rig ... in an 'instant' and this thread would not have existed

letsee if i understand you ... *you* can upgrade ... but i should just stick with 'junk'
:Q

i guess what you are saying is that 650w is fine for your system --but what about x-fire and o/c'd [i expect to have 4 raptors in raid also]

760w sounds *puny* ...
:shocked:


and thanks for the reminder ...
i'm OFF to work to try and pay for current and future purchases
[which is better than having to pay for past purchases ]

Just get the PC Power and Cooling 1KW PSU and be done with it.

A 620 Watt should be fine a Crossfire or SLI system (And I hope you will be running RAID-5 not RAID-0 with those Raptors Apoppin). Everyone is blowing these power requirements way out of proportion. WAY out of proportion.

-Kevin

 

[Gstanfor]

Originally posted by: apoppin

do you even know how a real woman feels?
[i doubt it]

:roll:

and if you actually *looked* at a Sapphire x1950p, you might agree
[*cheap* *cheap*]


and i see some of your games are on on my list ... which nvidia AA modes are sure to impress?
:Q

and should i use the latest ForceWare from Nov [93.71] or the ones from Last March [84.21] for my 7800gs?

Try the 92.91 forcewares, they are what I use personally.

I am continually amused by people who like Sapphire products and talk them up - these people are invariably unaware that Sapphire started life as a PC-Chips subsiduary (or that a good 70% of all ATi cards manufactured are manufactured in factories a lot worse than most nvidia cards are buiolt in...)

 

[GEOrifle]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: apoppin
and the point of your links were ?

He's "teaching" you and trying to "help".:Q











He probably doesn't realize that you've already RMA'ed it.

I know all story, don't like my help?
Don't read it.
Of course who "cares" about some APOPPIN...
I'll see soon anothers in his place...

 

[Gstanfor]

Originally posted by: CaiNaM

Originally posted by: GstanforI was referring to titles such as Vampire: Bloodlines, FEAR, Oblivion,Half-Life2, Hitman blood money, Settlers 2 10th Anniverary, Farcry, Medieval 2 Total War, Flatout 2, Boiling Point to name but a few.

umm..yea, we all know FEAR and Oblivion run well with at high res with AA on nv40 hardware...

stick to your Hello Kitty games. at least that's believable.

I did say g7x and nv4x you know... and Both FEAR & Oblivion DO run problem free with combined AA modes - not particuarly fast (in nv40's case), but they DO run ...

You can try putting nvidia's G7x and nv4x AA modes down some more when ATi actually delivers supersampling AA (without resorting to backfire) and Transparency AA that uses SS that actually works...

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Bateluer

Just get the PC Power and Cooling 1KW PSU and be done with it.

you're the guy with the money

and it is a little expensive and perhaps a bit overkill ....
----------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by: GEOrifle

I know all story, don't like my help?
Don't read it.
Of course who "cares" about some APOPPIN...
I'll see soon anothers in his place...

wth? ... after i *thanked* you for you efforts


i care about apoppin
:Q

and you know HALF the story
=============================

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
A 620 Watt should be fine a Crossfire or SLI system (And I hope you will be running RAID-5 not RAID-0 with those Raptors Apoppin). Everyone is blowing these power requirements way out of proportion. WAY out of proportion.

-Kevin

RAID-0 ... that way i can lose *all* my data at once for a little 'performance' gain.



and what about xfire r600?
:shocked:

i *think* it will be similar to 8800GTX power requirements .... However, i will wait a bit before committing myself to a PS ... and i have almost a month to decide ... IF i keep the 7800GS, i won't need it ... IF i return it, i may well have $210 worth of credit.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Originally posted by: Gstanfor

Originally posted by: apoppin

and if you actually *looked* at a Sapphire x1950p, you might agree
[*cheap* *cheap*]


and i see some of your games are on on my list ... which nvidia AA modes are sure to impress?
:Q

and should i use the latest ForceWare from Nov [93.71] or the ones from Last March [84.21] for my 7800gs?

Try the 92.91 forcewares, they are what I use personally.

I am continually amused by people who like Sapphire products and talk them up - these people are invariably unaware that Sapphire started life as a PC-Chips subsiduary (or that a good 70% of all ATi cards manufactured are manufactured in factories a lot worse than most nvidia cards are buiolt in...)

well ... i seriously DOUBT i will be recommending Sapphire Products to *anyone* ... buy a card and wait a month to get it back from an overseas RMA ...
but "we'll see"

i got a reply to my service ticket request:

Please provide us a copy of the purchase receipt along with part# and serial# of the
card and send it to tech@althonmicro.com.

To post a response please go to the link below.

Link: http://www.sapphiretech.com/en/support/...t.php?t=PERSONALINFO1-MOREPERSONALINFO

Thank You
Sapphire Tech Support

i don't know what tech@althonmicro.com is ... but i will soon know

it could be quicker than a month if it is done in the USA [as it should be]

and i will try 3 sets of drivers including the latest ... thanks for the suggestions
:thumbsup:

 

[Gamingphreek]

RAID-0 ... that way i can lose *all* my data at once for a little 'performance' gain.

Thats how we roll brotha lol...

and what about xfire r600?


i *think* it will be similar to 8800GTX power requirements .... However, i will wait a bit before committing myself to a PS ... and i have almost a month to decide ... IF i keep the 7800GS, i won't need it ... IF i return it, i may well have $210 worth of credit.

Ill have to look at R600 but even so it should still be fine IMHO unless power requirements are off the charts.

-Kevin

 

[jim1976]

Originally posted by: CaiNaM

Originally posted by: apoppin
realistically IF i keep my x1950p ... i am looking at this PS by Fortron

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817104026

$170 after $15 MIR

FSP Group (Fortron Source) FX Series FX760-E ATX | EPS Quad 12V 760W Maximum Power Supply - Retail

but i am not sure if it will be*enough* for a loaded and o/c'd Dual/Quad-core/SLI or xfire rig

decisions . . . decisions

corsair (seasonic), silverstone.... there are better options out there.

ocz gamexstream (which, incidently is based on the FSP epsilon series you list) is actually a better buy ($134.99 after $25.00 mir @ the egg; $20 cheaper plus free shipping @ ZZF) plus a longer warranty, however it doesn't rate well under high loads:

"Things were satisfactory until test 3. During test 3, I started to see ripple on 12V1 and 12V2 that was nearly 100mV. By test 5, the ripple was 100mV on 12V3 and 12V4 and had exceeded 100mV on 12V1 and 12V2. By test 6, the ripple on 12V1 and 12V2 had exceeded 150mV.

ATX specification has an "allowance" for 120mV. Mind you, test 6 was very stressful, pushing the power supply to it's limits, but it doesn't change the fact that the ripple exceeded spec and this is the first power supply to date I have had do this.

What's wrong with two much ripple? Well, if the voltage fluctuates too erratically, it can over work other regulators used to provide Vcore to the CPU, GPU, etc.

A representative of OCZ did find my findings concerning and asked that I return the unit for an exchange. I did so, and in the interim I obtained an FSP Epsilon 600W. The 600W version of the power supply the OCZ GameXstream is based on. In testing that unit, I found a good deal of ripple as well. When a brand new GameXstream was finally returned to me, I immediately plugged it in and found the same results as the first sample.

Fortunately, it is very unlikely any of us will have one of these power supplies at or above 400W, at least for any considerable period of time, but this high ripple measurement will be taken into consideration when calculating the performance score."

full review

check out that site; it's the most informative when it comes to power supplies.

as stated it's out of spec only when under extreme load, tho that could get worse after time, but hey.. if you're spending almost $200 for a friggin power supply, shouldn't you expect better?

100% agreed listen to the guy here ...
I bought myself an ovrekill psu last month.. The first thing that I looked is to combine quality with quantity at a "reasonable price".
Etasis ET850W. For those who know some stuff about psus they know what Etasis means.. This psu is hardcore and certainly overkill for remotely everything out there and probably for a long time.. I saw it as an investment though. Appopin if you want not to have the psu in mind for a long itime I suggest you take a good look at quality psus first of all..

 

[apoppin]

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=37581

it looks like i will need 480w just for 2 r600s
:Q

a 1,000w PS suddenly doesn't sound so *massive*
:shocked:

unless i go "green" ... really green

EDIT: thanks for all the 'tips' on the PSes ... i *do* have a month to decide ... and it will depend on which card i keep ... i am still shocked at the 240w power consumption of the xtx


if it is real

edit oops ... wrong link

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=37581

Dragonshead 2 with the same clock as the R600XTX 12.4 inch card. The only difference is that this card ends up being 9.5 inches long and needs 240W power. It still has 1024MB memory and 512Mbit memory controller. It comes with two 2x3 pins power connectors

 

[jim1976]

Originally posted by: apoppin
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=37581

it looks like i will need 480w just for 2 r600s
:Q

a 1,000w PS suddenly doesn't sound so *massive*
:shocked:

unless i go "green" ... really green

BS.. You will see it Xfire of R600 wont be even remotely close to 480w even under extreme load..
BUT EVEN if that is true(which I'm 100% convinced it's not) a 750-850w quality psu will last you for a long time if you have to take into consideration the timeframe.. And certainly some of the 1000w PSUs on the market right now are for laughs.. Not because of their wattage but due to their specs,quality parts,efficiency,voltage regulation and of course the ripple effect

 

[DeathReborn]

Originally posted by: apoppin
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=37581

it looks like i will need 480w just for 2 r600s
:Q

a 1,000w PS suddenly doesn't sound so *massive*
:shocked:

unless i go "green" ... really green

EDIT: thanks for all the 'tips' on the PSes ... i *do* have a month to decide ... and it will depend on which card i keep ... i am still shocked at the 240w power consumption of the xtx


if it is real

You should probably wait for a quality PSU with the 2x4 pin connectors if you are going to eventually get R600 CF so you don't have to fiddle with adapters. They probably start at 700W anyway .

 

[apoppin]

again ... a million thanks for your time and interest

and i see two very different PoVs on *how much* power is needed ... i know a *budget* PS is not a good idea for a xfire system ... and i will research this ... i am certain some reviews will also cover r600 realistic power requirements ... from what i DO see, i should be able to get a decent PS in my price range.

but i got a month ... so i can *breathe* ... and play some video games and do a little benchmarking ... while i wait for my RMA.

 

[jim1976]

Originally posted by: apoppin
again ... a million thanks for your time and interest

and i see two very different PoVs on *how much* power is needed ... i know a *budget* PS is not a good idea for a xfire system ... and i will research this ... i am certain some reviews will also cover r600 realistic power requirements ... from what i DO see, i should be able to get a decent PS in my price range.

but i got a month ... so i can *breathe* ... and play some video games and do a little benchmarking ... while i wait for my RMA.

Of course you can find a quality psu at a much lower price and lower Watt/Amber,than mine and do your job even for the most power hungry high end system out there..
I stated that 850w with such A in the combined 12V line, is just crazy and overkill. I just saw it as an investment, just in case for the future..
Whatever you do research VERY WELL for the psu..
Just my 2 cents :beer:

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
You can try putting nvidia's G7x and nv4x AA modes down some more when ATi actually delivers supersampling AA (without resorting to backfire) and Transparency AA that uses SS that actually works...

apparently you're once again having a different conversation that i am. this isn't about ati vs nvidia, nor was i putting nv's AA down at all.

you, otoh... sure.

lets watch the slideshow if FEAR when running SSAA at any res - let alone "hi res" as you claim. useful for a laugh, perhaps.

8800GTX/GTS is another story entirely, which is my point.

 

[postmortemIA]

appopin,

sorry for your luck.

My Sapphire X1950Pro works just fine.

If you have to buy PSU, wouldn't it be cheaper to get 939 mobo + CPU + 7600GT PCI-e?

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: postmortemIA
appopin,

sorry for your luck.

My Sapphire X1950Pro works just fine.

If you have to buy PSU, wouldn't it be cheaper to get 939 mobo + CPU + 7600GT PCI-e?

bastage !



rub it in



then throw salt into the *wound*
:Q

and snicker
:evil:


:shocked:

you sure know how to hurt a guy by stating the *obvious*




sure ... 20/20 HINDsight

:laugh:

but NOW ... i am 'in' too *deep*
:brokenheart:




Seriously ... i can only try and rescue the situation

IF i keep my x1950p - and there is a GOOD chance i will sell it when it comes back from Sapphire IF the 7800GS works at least as well as my x850xt - then i will buy a beefy PS for my NEXT rig right away ... something to run sli next year

. . . and i will use it NOW to power my x1950p when i return my GS for $210 "credit" toward a PS

OK?


it makes sense to me


You see, next year i am doing the *complete makeover* ... so it doesn't matter which GPU i keep or if i upgrade the PS now or later ... it ALL *depends* on what i think of the 7800gs [and you gotta remember it is $210-$50MIR=$160, if i keep it]

and i was kidding about the *B* nonsense word ... i remember a movie with it