apoppin re-evaluates nvidia [Formerly nm] ... back to x1950p

[GEOrifle]

Thise is from Sapphire's forum, read it carefully:

http://www.sapphiretech.com/en/forums/showthread.php?t=1005


And thise for in case of upgrade for $1000 :


http://www.firingsquad.com/guides/building_budget_gaming_pc/


Let us know what's going on with RMA.

 

[apoppin]

and the *point* of your links were ?


i know both how to build any rig and also to troubleshoot

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: apoppin
and the point of your links were ?

He's "teaching" you and trying to "help".:Q











He probably doesn't realize that you've already RMA'ed it.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: apoppin
and the point of your links were ?

He's "teaching" you and trying to "help".:Q




He probably doesn't realize that you've already RMA'ed it.

i c ... well, shucks ... thanks, i guess



and actually i just started the RMA process by requesting a Sapphire ticket this morning

they take awhile to reply

the card ran perfectly for a month ... then *suddenly* Yesterday playing Fable, vpu recovered ... then crashed to desktop ... then artifacts on startup and in windows so the screen is *garbled* ... and yes i checked and reseated the card, made sure both PS connectors were active and changed them ... entered BIOS and altered the AGP voltage [for fun ... though i could barely read it] ... it's Malfunctioning

sound familiar?


. :light:
it's the video card

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: apoppin
it's the video card:light:

Yep. PSU problems are usually accompanies by a burning smell and total system failure.

 

[Gstanfor]

Originally posted by: CaiNaM
... you'' actually be able to use the AA with the 8800 ...

G7x's AA performance is hardly lacking... as I've posted many times before I'm quite a fan of the combined AA modes and high resolutions. Have been ever since my nv40 days...

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: apoppin
it's the video card:light:

Yep. PSU problems are usually accompanies by a burning smell and total system failure.

well, IF it were my PS ... i should have had *some* sign of instability ... VPU recoveries, crashes, artifacts ... things i DID get when i tried to O/C it and left my CPU even more oc'd then it is now [formerly at 3.31Ghz ... now at 3.01Ghz]

even so ... if i left it o/c'd and tried to run it, it still shouldn't *fail* due to under powering it ... rather my rig would be unstable and i would get intolerable artifacts

at any rate, IF i decide to keep it, i'd get my future [xfire/sli] PS next month ... that way i can have my cake and eat it now ... OC the crap outta both my CPU and x1950p AND be ready for next year's upgrade [i wanna see how much r600 requires before i buy a PS]
--------------------

Originally posted by: Gstanfor

Originally posted by: CaiNaM
... you'' actually be able to use the AA with the 8800 ...

G7x's AA performance is hardly lacking... as I've posted many times before I'm quite a fan of the combined AA modes and high resolutions. Have been ever since my nv40 days...

i am looking forward to seeing this ... for myself ...
Wednesday, i hope ... but then 'my resolution' is only 12x9 max.

 

[apoppin]

just thought i'd check before going to bed ...

OMG ... it already shipped
:Q

with a Tracking number ...

due TUESday
:thumbsup:

 

[Zebo]

1950pro has better image quality and can HDR+AA and it's faster to boot. Idiotic trade and that's coming from an nV fan. You need software 1:1 pixel mapping or something? You picked the wrong nvidia card to "re-evaluate":disgust:

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: apoppin
and the point of your links were ?

He's "teaching" you and trying to "help".:Q











He probably doesn't realize that you've already RMA'ed it.

Some lesson - he's telling Poppy to build a two year old rig, close to what he has already, since the gaming build recommendation is dated 2005.

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: apoppinagain ... "today's latest nvidia AGP card" ... and it will give me a better idea than from over 5 years ago ... i am not judging 8800 ... i am judging 7x00 ... TODAY's "mainstream" and top agp performer by nvidia

oh.. ** and "" not enough, we need to use bold? okay!

so you want to get an idea of the agp card you're gonna upgrade to next year? umm.. okay...

live and learn ... at the time, NewEgg did not have the Sapphire in stock

bummer

as to the PS ... my 480w ThermalTake exceeds the minimum ... the 30a on the 12v rail is for a LOADED system ... mine is minimal except for a mild cpu o/c at stock voltage.

which thermaltake do you have?

on my wife's system (which has the x1950pro) i currently have a thermaltake silent purepower 480w. it was certainly a decent psu for it's time, but it's only rated @ 18w on 12v rail. back when this came out ('04) there was more amps on 3v & 5v rails (this is why i stated earlier about 'crappy' power supplies in agp systems, as they are typically several years old), whereas modern psu's tend to run more on 12v rather than 3 & 5v.

i seriously doubt it was my PS ... it ran flawlessly for over a month ... then crapped out
like a cheap hooker on a last run of crystal meth ...

as it wasn't built for heavy 12v load, excessive voltage fluctuations can certainly cause damage, and it does so over time - which fits yoru situation in that your card worked for a month before crapping out.

the recommended spec's (HIS anyway) are rather vague as in the manual it states "a 450 watt power supply or greater with 30 amps current on 12v rail is recommended to ensure normal system operation where a number of other interrnal devices are installed."

it would certainly be interesting to find out how many agp systems with 2-3 year old psu's meet those standards..

still, while currently mine is running with no issues, the psu is getting replaced this week. the ttake 480w i currently have in there is nowhere near the 'recommended' specs. even tho it works now, i don't want mine to die 3 weeks.

the x1950p was designed for systems like mine ...

assuming it meets the recommended specs...

i think sapphire was cheap on the components, imo

based on the fact yours failed, or do you know something of the components used in sapphire (say, as opposed to components used in other brands)?

and i AM buying a new PS ... sooner or later ... if i keep the returned x1950p it will be sooner

i'm thinking i will need at least 900w for a xfire [or sli] system

900 or 1000w power supplies are overkill. don't buy into the hype. i've seen SLI 8800GTX running perfectly in a system using a corsair hx520w psu.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: CaiNaM

Originally posted by: apoppinagain ... "today's latest nvidia AGP card" ... and it will give me a better idea than from over 5 years ago ... i am not judging 8800 ... i am judging 7x00 ... TODAY's "mainstream" and top agp performer by nvidia

oh.. ** and "" not enough, we need to use bold? okay!

so you want to get an idea of the agp card you're gonna upgrade to next year? umm.. okay...

live and learn ... at the time, NewEgg did not have the Sapphire in stock

bummer

as to the PS ... my 480w ThermalTake exceeds the minimum ... the 30a on the 12v rail is for a LOADED system ... mine is minimal except for a mild cpu o/c at stock voltage.

which thermaltake do you have?

on my wife's system (which has the x1950pro) i currently have a thermaltake silent purepower 480w. it was certainly a decent psu for it's time, but it's only rated @ 18w on 12v rail. back when this came out ('04) there was more amps on 3v & 5v rails (this is why i stated earlier about 'crappy' power supplies in agp systems, as they are typically several years old), whereas modern psu's tend to run more on 12v rather than 3 & 5v.

i seriously doubt it was my PS ... it ran flawlessly for over a month ... then crapped out
like a cheap hooker on a last run of crystal meth ...

as it wasn't built for heavy 12v load, excessive voltage fluctuations can certainly cause damage, and it does so over time - which fits yoru situation in that your card worked for a month before crapping out.

the recommended spec's (HIS anyway) are rather vague as in the manual it states "a 450 watt power supply or greater with 30 amps current on 12v rail is recommended to ensure normal system operation where a number of other interrnal devices are installed."

it would certainly be interesting to find out how many agp systems with 2-3 year old psu's meet those standards..

still, while currently mine is running with no issues, the psu is getting replaced this week. the ttake 480w i currently have in there is nowhere near the 'recommended' specs. even tho it works now, i don't want mine to die 3 weeks.

the x1950p was designed for systems like mine ...

assuming it meets the recommended specs...

i think sapphire was cheap on the components, imo

based on the fact yours failed, or do you know something of the components used in sapphire (say, as opposed to components used in other brands)?

and i AM buying a new PS ... sooner or later ... if i keep the returned x1950p it will be sooner

i'm thinking i will need at least 900w for a xfire [or sli] system

900 or 1000w power supplies are overkill. don't buy into the hype. i've seen SLI 8800GTX running perfectly in a system using a corsair hx520w psu.

the *bold* is for where there's too much crap requoted and specific answers are needed

i have the same PS as your wife's ... and *technically* it DOES meet the spec
[and ... ha ha .. according to *you* it could *already* be damaged
-hope not]

and watching the "fluctionations" on my 12v rail .... they rarely dipped as my system is remarkly UNloaded [1 HD + 1 DVD writer] ... so i +doubt+ that was the 'cause of my x1950p's failure


that said

... it IS being replaced IF i keep my x1950p and before it returns from RMA ... i now have a $200 budget [coincidently ] ... and not buying *into the hype* already cost me - this time ... my next PS will be *overkill* and hopefully adequate for a o/c'd SLI/xfire-Quadcore system ... my last PS for at least few more years

as to *modern* GPUs ... the 7800GS is as recent as nvidia offers in AGP ... find me a more modern one if you can. it's *competition* is the x1950p ... and i get an idea of nvidia's current support for their midrange cards

next year i'm actually planning on my Video Card to be PCIe2

as to the Sapphire ... it IS shockingly cheaply made [*my opinion*] ... by the way it looks ... and feels

... and evidently defects ... compared to other x1950p brands

 

[Stumps]

Thread...so hard to read...


My eyes...the goggles do nothing...

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor

Originally posted by: CaiNaM
... you'' actually be able to use the AA with the 8800 ...

G7x's AA performance is hardly lacking... as I've posted many times before I'm quite a fan of the combined AA modes and high resolutions. Have been ever since my nv40 days...

yea, but most of us don't spend our time playing "hello kitty: bubblegum girlfriends" and therefore don't base performance from that or similar titles you favor.

i have an nv40 in the pc next to me; have had it since june '04, so i'm quite aware of what they are capable of - at least in more mainstream games that most of here play.

 

[apoppin]

when does nvidia's 'monthly drivers' start ... the latest i see are from Nov2 ... LAST year
:Q

Windows XP/2000 32-bit


ForceWare Release 90
Version: 93.71
Release Date: November 2, 2006
WHQL Certified

use the earlier ones? 84.21 ... from March '06? a full year old?
why better performance for 7x00 series?


Just saw your post Zebo
... which nvidia AGP card do you suggest i evaluate?

i am looking for *better* than my x850xt ... not better than my x1950p.
[which is dead, anyway]

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: apoppin
i have the same PS as your wife's ... and *technically* it DOES meet the spec
[and ... ha ha .. according to *you* it could *already* be damaged
-hope not]

well, that's certainly possible, but generally it takes some time. crap 3.3v lines do the same thing to system ram.

and watching the "fluctionations" on my 12v rail .... they rarely dipped as my system is remarkly UNloaded [1 HD + 1 DVD writer] ... so i +doubt+ that was the 'cause of my x1950p's failure

well, only stating it was possible; hard to say what happened for sure. it's all speculation either way.

that said

... it IS being replaced IF i keep my x1950p and before it returns from RMA ... i now have a $200 budget [coincidently ] ... and not buying *into the hype* already cost me - this time ... my next PS will be *overkill* and hopefully adequate for a o/c'd SLI/xfire-Quadcore system ... my last PS for at least few more years

well, the only reason i say that is because 1) 1000w is simply not necessary, 2) 1000w psus are ridiculously priced, and 3) "wattage" isn't everything. in fact, it's quite misleading.

still, should they be required in say, mid to late 2008 (assuming when next gen cards come out again), they will be priced much more competitively than they are today.

as to *modern* GPUs ... the 7800GS is as recent as nvidia offers in AGP ... find me a more modern one if you can.

yet it's still a 2 year old model - almost ancient in video card years. now, if you could get your hands on one of those gainward's, it would be more reflective of current cards, excluding the 8 series from nv (and the mid-range 8 series cards should be out in a few weeks).

the only reason i made a point regarding this is that nitro was right. sure, it's the best agp card you can get from nv, but it's nowhere near what nv's current lineup is, either in performance or image quality.

it's *competition* is the x1950p ... and i get an idea of nvidia's current support for their midrange cards

only in as much as the r580 is *competition* to to 8800GTX.

next year i'm actually planning on my Video Card to be PCIe2

as to the Sapphire ... it IS shockingly cheaply made [*my opinion*] ... by the way it looks ... and feels

... and evidently defects ... compared to other x1950p brands

could be. i don't know firsthand, but i have had other cards from sapphire (in fact i'm using one of their x1800xt's now) and that certainly has not been my experience.

i do know the reference coolers on the 1950pro's look cheap/cheesy tho... and i believe that's what sapphire is using.

 

[apoppin]

of course it's speculation

i doubt sapphire will tell me what did their card in ... usually an underpowered PS "shows" ... this one just *died* ...
[and it still feels *cheap* ... and i know *cheap* ... holding it in my hands, the 'feel', the flimsy PCB ... that godawful cooler ... like a flashy but cheap prostitu ... nevermind]

... ALL i am trying to say is the *best* i can currently do with nvidia's line-up in AGP is the 7800GS

i don't deserve the very best

[anyway]

my rig is *ancient*

but serviceable hopefully till i upgrade

and i will experience *more* about nvidia than i currently do ...

OK?

edit:

or do you think i should refuse delivery and keep playing Solitare on my 8MB videocard ...

--for another month?
:brokenheart:

 

[CaiNaM]

n0000000.... minesweeper is da shite!

but no, have fun with the GS. all i'm saying is don't judge current nv cards on it.

mine wasn't bad, and i got insane overclocks (in the area of 500mhz on the core). the AA was better, and more useable than my 6800GT, however since you're coming from an x850xt (skipping the mere month you got from the x1950pro), you'll likely find performance for the most part is comparable, while the IQ of your x850 is a bit better (tho TAA is a definite improvement).

 

[apoppin]

but MS gets a little repetitive after a month

i want to finish Fable

and Tron2

and Bloodlines will be here ... next week

edit [almost forgot] and FEAR's eXtraction point [!] ... it never ran very well with my ATi card and i want to see how it runs on ForceWare [twiimtbp]

then STALKER will be out next month and i want to be *caught up* by then


it's worth a few bucks ... plus ... i get to check out nvidia's *features*

...like shimmering ... and TAA
:laugh:

[maybe i will even become a hardcore fan like Gstanfor]


:Q

you never know

 

[Painman]

8MB RAM? You can play Diablo II on that. A month will go by without you even noticing. You'll have your Saphy back from RMA, life will be good.

Anyway. Like I said earlier - you might get a taste of better board quality... but I'll reiterate what's also being said, don't judge current nV performance/IQ by it... G80 is on another plane :Q

(And this is coming from a guy who threw nV to the dogs back in '03)

 

[apoppin]

i promise i won't judge nvidia only by 7000 series ... i understand that 8800 is a new *level* ... but it is also not as *stable* as the older series because of the newness of the drivers and HW.

please remember ... i am an ATi owner since Rage Fury32 ... and i judged nvidia on the FIRST GeForce ...

this will be a pretty big *improvement*

--for me

 

[Gstanfor]

Originally posted by: CaiNaM

Originally posted by: Gstanfor

Originally posted by: CaiNaM
... you'' actually be able to use the AA with the 8800 ...

G7x's AA performance is hardly lacking... as I've posted many times before I'm quite a fan of the combined AA modes and high resolutions. Have been ever since my nv40 days...

yea, but most of us don't spend our time playing "hello kitty: bubblegum girlfriends" and therefore don't base performance from that or similar titles you favor.

i have an nv40 in the pc next to me; have had it since june '04, so i'm quite aware of what they are capable of - at least in more mainstream games that most of here play.

Just because you might have the games you mentioned installed on your machine, doesn't mean I do. I was referring to titles such as Vampire: Bloodlines, FEAR, Oblivion,Half-Life2, Hitman blood money, Settlers 2 10th Anniverary, Farcry, Medieval 2 Total War, Flatout 2, Boiling Point to name but a few.

Originally posted by: apoppin
... and it still feels *cheap* ... and i know *cheap* ... holding it in my hands, the 'feel', the flimsy PCB ... that godawful cooler ... like a flashy but cheap prostitu ... nevermind ...

Why am I not suprised that you know how a prostitute feels? ...

 

[evolucion8]

Moving from a X850XT to a 7800GS (Not 7900GT) is more of a downgrade than a side grade in terms of performance, read the anandtech's GeForce 7800GS review and see what I mean, in terms of feature set, is an upgrade and in terms about image quality, jum, judge it for yourself, is a matter of taste. But if you move from a X850XT to a X1950PRO the performance improvement can be at 30% average, sometimes higher, sometimes lower, depending of the nature of the game, the X1950PRO is behind of the X850XT in terms of texture power, but the X1950PRO is far far ahead in terms of pixel shader power, geometry power and optimizations at higher resolutions with FSAA and AF, so the biggest difference in performance can be seen above 1280x1024, but small difference will be seen if you play at 1280x1024 or lower. Sorry for my bad english, i'm sleepy as hell hehe

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor

Originally posted by: CaiNaM

Originally posted by: Gstanfor

Originally posted by: CaiNaM
... you'' actually be able to use the AA with the 8800 ...

G7x's AA performance is hardly lacking... as I've posted many times before I'm quite a fan of the combined AA modes and high resolutions. Have been ever since my nv40 days...

yea, but most of us don't spend our time playing "hello kitty: bubblegum girlfriends" and therefore don't base performance from that or similar titles you favor.

i have an nv40 in the pc next to me; have had it since june '04, so i'm quite aware of what they are capable of - at least in more mainstream games that most of here play.

Just because you might have the games you mentioned installed on your machine, doesn't mean I do. I was referring to titles such as Vampire: Bloodlines, FEAR, Oblivion,Half-Life2, Hitman blood money, Settlers 2 10th Anniverary, Farcry, Medieval 2 Total War, Flatout 2, Boiling Point to name but a few.

Originally posted by: apoppin
... and it still feels *cheap* ... and i know *cheap* ... holding it in my hands, the 'feel', the flimsy PCB ... that godawful cooler ... like a flashy but cheap prostitu ... nevermind ...

Why am I not suprised that you know how a prostitute feels? ...

do you even know how a real woman feels?
[i doubt it]

:roll:

and if you actually *looked* at a Sapphire x1950p, you might agree
[*cheap* *cheap*]


and i see some of your games are on on my list ... which nvidia AA modes are sure to impress?
:Q

and should i use the latest ForceWare from Nov [93.71] or the ones from Last March [84.21] for my 7800gs?

================

Originally posted by: evolucion8
Moving from a X850XT to a 7800GS (Not 7900GT) is more of a downgrade than a side grade in terms of performance, read the anandtech's GeForce 7800GS review and see what I mean, in terms of feature set, is an upgrade and in terms about image quality, jum, judge it for yourself, is a matter of taste. But if you move from a X850XT to a X1950PRO the performance improvement can be at 30% average, sometimes higher, sometimes lower, depending of the nature of the game, the X1950PRO is behind of the X850XT in terms of texture power, but the X1950PRO is far far ahead in terms of pixel shader power, geometry power and optimizations at higher resolutions with FSAA and AF, so the biggest difference in performance can be seen above 1280x1024, but small difference will be seen if you play at 1280x1024 or lower. Sorry for my bad english, i'm sleepy as hell hehe

we'll see

i seriously doubt - and i read those reviews also - that the 7800gs is *weaker* than the x850xt .... i will get my impressions of it ... i guess Tuesday night

as to *keeping it* ... who knows? i KNOW the x1950p is *more powerful* than either the x850xt or the 7800gs ... i was totally satisfied with my x850xt's performance for my current games

So ... the decision comes down to many things ... i have almost 30 days to decide

1) Keeping the x1950p *requires* a PS upgrade ... i must get my next rigs PS before my x1950p returns from RMA ... figure ~$200 for a really nice PS

2) Keeping the 7800GS means i sell my x1950p ... pretty simple ... and delay my PS *upgrade* until i build my new rig next year

those are the 2 major points i am considering

 

[apoppin]

realistically IF i keep my x1950p ... i am looking at this PS by Fortron

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817104026

$170 after $15 MIR

FSP Group (Fortron Source) FX Series FX760-E ATX | EPS Quad 12V 760W Maximum Power Supply - Retail

but i am not sure if it will be*enough* for a loaded and o/c'd Dual/Quad-core/SLI or xfire rig

decisions . . . decisions