apoppin re-evaluates nvidia [Formerly nm] ... back to x1950p

[40sTheme]

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777

A64 3500+ @ 2.5Ghz (I overclocked his CPU while I was there, no reason not too)
3GB Ram
X1950 Pro AGP 512MB W Stock
3DMark 05 Score = 9111 @ default settings

Versus

A64 3500+ @2.53Ghz
2GB Ram
7800 GTX @ Stock
3DMark 05 Score = 7613 @ default settings

And the winner is?

Not surprising. nVidia tends to perform lower in 3DMark apps. My 7950GT gets about 1K lower than my friends X1950Pro but in game benchmarks, I usually beat him by 10-15% at same res/details. Both of us have nearly the same system (he's AMD, I have a Pentium D, pretty much only difference). Oh and this is the PCIe X1950Pro as well.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
I'm way too lazy to dig up the post in question (but I believe I suggested you needed psychiactric help in my next post), but, compared even to my Huddy post yours was *very* immature.

'nuff said on the issue.

i seriously don't remember making that specific *very immature* post .... but i do remember [at least] one of our 'exchanges' got very 'heated'

but that is OK, i guess
[--me forgetting ... and *don't* remind me]

as to comparing 3DMarkXX scores for GPUs in different rigs ... they are almost *completely useless* ...
3DMarkXX is best used as a tool for *tracking changes* in a single system[period]

Also, the x1950p doesn't offer "much" in MY system over my 7800GS OC ... even though the 3DMark05 scores are ~1000 points higher ... not enough to *tempt fate* with a Sapphire x1950p
--without upgrading my PS for big bucks now.

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: dug777
So really, your main point is that YOU had a bad experience with Sapphire, and a good experience with BFG?

no you largely missed it
[except that this Thread IS all about *me* and *my experience*]

i.e - i had a bad experience with an RMA policy which drove me to purchase a 7800GS which turned out to be a very nice surprise in every way ... considering all my experience was with ATi GPUs since 2000 ... 7 continuous years of running ATi GPUs ... from my first experience with GeForce256 > 7800 series

this is a log of *my experience* - of someone labeled here as an ATi Fanboy - with a nvidia GPU ...

*my conclusion* ... both ATi and nvidia make awesome GPUs and i would not mind running EITHER in my rig[period]

--that's all--

i kinda missed that, what with all the bitching about Sapphire

I would have thought it patently obvious to someone of even the meanest intellect that both companies provide excellent graphics solutions (and have done for a long time now). You were obviously more of a fanboy than you would like to think if you honestly expected any real surprises, or worse still, were actually surprised by the nvidia card

EDIT: i've been back and forth between them for years, and while i've honestly enjoyed my ATI cards a little more than my nvidia cards, bang/buck in the AGP market meant i've ended up with a 6600GT and then a 6800GS, both of which have been more than adequate

i didn't *say* i expected any "real surprises" ... nor was i actually surprised by the nvidia card

you have a nasty habit of reading "into" my posts what i did NOT say

i did say i was "pleasantly" surprised ... which is a real difference ...
. . . i heard about "shimmering" and other IQ "issues" that simply don't exist as "advertised" by the other team. ... these are things you see for yourself ... not depend on second hand reports for.

my experience was was limited to ati cards simply because of my "timing" of my purchase ... i DID want a 6800u and actually bought my current TT PS in anticipation of getting it ... it ultimately turned out to be expensive compared to what i bought ... i got my 9800xt for a "song" [relatively] ... and a $200 x850xt last January was too good of a deal to pass up...
... just like this one ... my 7800GS for $160 after MIR ...
awesome bang-for buck and the only "real [good] surprise" being its awesome +value+

Having run ATI and nvidia cards side by side, on the current drivers of the time (admittedly without taking the time to fiddle with nhancer and the other stuff Gstanfor did recommend), i can tell you that at times there was a noticeable difference

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: apoppin
i did say i was "pleasantly" surprised ... which is a real difference ...
. . . i heard about "shimmering" and other IQ "issues" that simply don't exist as "advertised" by the other team. ... these are things you see for yourself ... not depend on second hand reports for.

my experience was was limited to ati cards simply because of my "timing" of my purchase ... i DID want a 6800u and actually bought my current TT PS in anticipation of getting it ... it ultimately turned out to be expensive compared to what i bought ... i got my 9800xt for a "song" [relatively] ... and a $200 x850xt last January was too good of a deal to pass up...
... just like this one ... my 7800GS for $160 after MIR ...
awesome bang-for buck and the only "real [good] surprise" being its awesome +value+

Having run ATI and nvidia cards side by side, on the current drivers of the time (admittedly without taking the time to fiddle with nhancer and the other stuff Gstanfor did recommend), i can tell you that at times there was a noticeable difference

how do you run them side-by side?

two *otherwise identical* rigs?
:Q

:roll:

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: apoppin
i did say i was "pleasantly" surprised ... which is a real difference ...
. . . i heard about "shimmering" and other IQ "issues" that simply don't exist as "advertised" by the other team. ... these are things you see for yourself ... not depend on second hand reports for.

my experience was was limited to ati cards simply because of my "timing" of my purchase ... i DID want a 6800u and actually bought my current TT PS in anticipation of getting it ... it ultimately turned out to be expensive compared to what i bought ... i got my 9800xt for a "song" [relatively] ... and a $200 x850xt last January was too good of a deal to pass up...
... just like this one ... my 7800GS for $160 after MIR ...
awesome bang-for buck and the only "real [good] surprise" being its awesome +value+

Having run ATI and nvidia cards side by side, on the current drivers of the time (admittedly without taking the time to fiddle with nhancer and the other stuff Gstanfor did recommend), i can tell you that at times there was a noticeable difference

how do you run them side-by side?

two *otherwise identical* rigs?
:Q

:roll:

grow up, why should they be identical? The only variables that affect graphics IQ are the card and drivers.

 

[apoppin]

rubbish .. you grow up
you're the one that made the bold statement

Having run ATI and nvidia cards side by side

i just *called* you on it ... you did NOT run them side-b-side any more than i did

and ... don't forget the monitor ... a huge variable ...

you memory may also play a factor

why should your *impressions* be more accurate than mine?

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: apoppin
rubbish .. you grow up ... don't forget the monitor ... a huge variable ...

you memory may also play a factor

why should your impressions be more accurate than mine?

You calling me a liar?

As well as running on multiple machines (admittedly with different monitors), I have also switched out nvidia and ATI cards, on the same machine, several times in a day (yes, identical machine and monitor this time), and played the same games, and the main (in fact, only) places i saw a noticeable difference were the level of 'shimmer' and the shadows in farcry, playing farcry and HL2/CSS.

Not only did i notice this, but many other people did, so i guess they're all lying too?


EDIT: i'm in no place to comment on relative IQ these days, since i don't own any current gen cards to compare with current drivers, or even an older ATI card to test with current gen drivers

EDIT2: You owe me an apology for your edit, since i have at many times compared ATI and Nvidia cards side by side (ever been to a LAN, or lived at college and had mates with computers?).

 

[SickBeast]

This reminds me of when Rollo purchased a 9700Pro. I'm still waiting for apoppin to say his 7800 "sucks", only to sell it off and buy an R600 or something.

I'm not saying you're a troll, apoppin, I'm kidding here! :beer:

 

[apoppin]

i owe you *nothing*

i asked you what you meant by *side-by-side* and you responded with 'grow up'

Grow up dug777

i have also seen them *side-by-side* and 'yes' i AM saying you ARE *exaggerating* ..

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
This reminds me of when Rollo purchased a 9700Pro. I'm still waiting for apoppin to say his 7800 "sucks", only to sell it off and buy an R600 or something.

I'm not saying you're a troll, apoppin, I'm kidding here! :beer:

i said *Sapphire's RMA Scam sucks* and i *love* my 7800Gs ... and i am sticking with that

i saw Dug's posts and his "shimmering" issues

let me let you in for a big surprise ... ATi GPUs have "shimmering" also

you don't notice EITHER unless you are really [really] LOOKING for it ... or in *certain circumstances*

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: apoppin
i owe you *nothing*

i asked you what you meant by *side-by-side* and you responded with 'grow up'

Grow up

i have also seen them *side-by-side* and 'yes' i AM saying you ARE *exaggerating* ..

I honestly expected a little more maturity out of you.

I told you to grow up because you threw a few nasty emoticons in AND called me a liar baselessly.

All i've said is that there was a noticeable difference between an ATI and nvidia card in terms of graphics IQ at some stages in the last few years, something that many many people would agree on (these days, noticeably in favour of the 8800 series).

I don't know where the exaggeration you mention came in, since i never stated the magnitude of difference.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: apoppin
i owe you *nothing*

i asked you what you meant by *side-by-side* and you responded with 'grow up'

Grow up

i have also seen them *side-by-side* and 'yes' i AM saying you ARE *exaggerating* ..

I honestly expected a little more maturity out of you.

I honestly expected no more maturity out of you then you have shown in the past [zero]

I told you to grow up because you threw a few nasty emoticons in AND called me a liar baselessly.

You told me to "grow up" because i disagreed with you and 'called' you on your "side-by-side" claim ... what *nasty emoticons*?

All i've said is that there was a noticeable difference between an ATI and nvidia card in terms of graphics IQ at some stages in the last few years, something that many many people would agree on (these days, noticeably in favour of the 8800 series).

I don't know where the exaggeration you mention came in, since i never stated the magnitude of difference.

ReRead your posts or do you forget what you just wrote?:

i saw a noticeable difference were the level of 'shimmer'

i call BS on your *noticeable difference* ... that is a magnitude of notice - i.e. easily noticed
... what? when "paused"

:roll:

 

[dug777]

A 'noticeable difference' means a difference that is noticeable, it gives no indication of magnitude, english comprehension FTW :laugh:

As a matter of fact, i could tell almost no difference when paused, it was the gameplay that brought the shimmer out, as was widely documented at the time

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: dug777
A 'noticeable difference' means a difference that is noticeable, it gives no indication of magnitude, english comprehension FTW :laugh:

As a matter of fact, i could tell almost no difference when paused, it was the gameplay that bought the shimmer out, as was widely documented at the time

perhaps you are the one who *lacks*

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=noticeable
<<attracting notice or attention>>
?Synonyms 1. conspicuous, prominent 2. notable.

Shimmering is not a *notable* difference between ATi and nvidia GPUs
--except in your mind because you are *looking* for it

i can also *see* it on all my ATi cards if i look *hard enough*

but neither affect gameplay

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: dug777
A 'noticeable difference' means a difference that is noticeable, it gives no indication of magnitude, english comprehension FTW :laugh:

As a matter of fact, i could tell almost no difference when paused, it was the gameplay that bought the shimmer out, as was widely documented at the time

perhaps you are the one who *lacks*

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=noticeable
<<attracting notice or attention>>
?Synonyms 1. conspicuous, prominent 2. notable.

Shimmering is not a *notable* difference between ATi and nvidia GPUs
--except in your mind because you are *looking* for it

i can also *see* it on all my ATi cards if i look *hard enough*

but neither affect gameplay

Again, when someone says something is noticeable, it merely means they noticed it, by it's very definition. It does not contain ANY indication of magnitude, other than, as you so cleverly point out, telling you that it isn't 'unnoticeable/inconspicuous'

Your responses in this thread makes me think that you were never an ATI fanboy at all, in the true sense of the word.

You're merely the worst kind of fanboy, the one who is rabidly supportive of his (working) current card, and that is the epitome of childish behaviour.

You haven't bothered reading any of my posts in your haste to belittle me. I've clearly pointed out that any of my experiences are outdated, since i don't own an ATI card to compare with current drivers, or a current gen card (and neither do you, regarding the nvidia camp). I have made no comment on the current gen cards or drivers, which is where you are arguing from.

By the same token, you had no Nvidia card to compare with older drivers when i went through this comparison, to an ATI card running the equivalent drivers, so you have no basis to declare my experience a complete fabrication, as you have been.

So in response to your snide little comment there, no, i don't think it is i who is lacking here

 

[apoppin]

i *do*

... and you ridiculous post needs no further response ... you belittle yourself with your *illogic* nor do you even understand my posts

worst kind of childish fanboy ... dug777

 

[CaiNaM]

shimmering on the nvcards has mostly been fixed; with adjustments to driver settings it was possible to eliminate it for the most part. it's possible that since the whole fiasco came to light, the default driver settings are now such that for the most part it's not as glaring an issue as it once was. shimmering was a problem for me with my 7800GS.. ati cards also had the same issue, tho to a much lesser degree as their default optimizations were nowhere near as aggressive as nvidia's.

still, texture filtering is so much better on the r5xx series than the g70/71. while ati's aa is arguably not as good (g70 shares the same AA as g71), the difference is nowhere near as glaring as the gap in texture filtering. having had both, there really wasn't anything about g70/71 i preferred over r5xx.

i must say tho, after running a g80 for the past weak my preference has changed from ati to nvidia; nvidia nailed it in 3d image quality (for whatever reason i'm not as comfortable with the 2d as i was with ati, but it's still quite decent - may not even be a case of which is better, rather just different and i was accustomed to one and need time to adjust) as they dramatically improved the texture filtering over g71. the filtering is as good as ati was, and the quality of the textured themselves are better than r5xx; kudos to nv for addressing those issues. i also have not noticed any texture crawl as i had in previous nv cards. overall i'm quite happy with my 8800 as they seem to have addressed everything i and many other had griped about with g70/71. performance (which is also very good) aside, it's still better hardware than my XT. thank goodness i haven't installed vista yet tho!

can't say i like their new nv control panel tho

one thing that kind of puzzles me however is the gfx chip partners. i've had great experiences with BFG support, and i've heard very good things about evga. 3 of nvidia's partners offer lifetime warranties (BFG, EVGA, XFX; perhaps more but those are the only one's i know of), while ati's products for the most part have only 1-2 year warranties, and while visiontek offers a "lifetime" warranty, it only applies to the "life" of the card; once it EOL's, the warranty doesn't exist... and powercolor has a similar "processing fee" as sapphire: "Customers will be charged $12 USD (MONEY ORDER ONLY) for shipping and handling fee that within 48 continental states of USA. $20 USD (MONEY ORDER ONLY) for customers in Canada. (Pureto Rico, Haiwaii and Alaska customers' shipping and handling fee may be varied. (MONEY ORDER ONLY). If you have DHL / UPS / Fedex account, we would be happy to use that instead of the return shipping and hanlding fee. If you are not willing to pay for the shipping cost, please contact your seller."

very disappointing from that aspect....

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: apoppin
i *do*

... and you ridiculous post needs no further response ... you belittle yourself with your *illogic* nor do you even understand my posts

worst kind of childish fanboy ... dug777

I checked, quite carefully, and got someone else to read it, just in case i was missing something

I've understood your posts and insults perfectly, and my reply makes perfect sense, yours just makes you look incapable of responding to my points, and as childish as i had suggested.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: apoppin
i *do*

... and you ridiculous post needs no further response ... you belittle yourself with your *illogic* nor do you even understand my posts

worst kind of childish fanboy ... dug777

I checked, quite carefully, and got someone else to read it, just in case i was missing something

I've understood your posts and insults perfectly, and my reply makes perfect sense, yours just makes you look incapable of responding to my points, and as childish as i had suggested.

who? your mother?
:Q



let me see IF i understand it ...


i create a thread to give *my impressions* of a current nvidia gpu - 7800GS OC - after years with ATi GPUs and state that i can see no apparent IQ differences nor is *shimmering* a big deal

You *break in*, call ME a liar and state that you are 'right' - that there *are* NOTICEABLE differences - even though you ADMIT that it was a LONG time ago - your card and drivers are out of date and thus completely IRRELEVANT to my experience
:thumbsdown:


grow up

:roll:

truthfully it was always embarrassing for me to have you on "my side" in a discussion ...


EDIT: just saw your reply, CaiNaM makes total *sense* that nvidia would have fixed shimmering

and what is is about the Warranty ... are nvidia partners Starting to do what Sapphire does ... charge for RMA processing? or just PowerColor and ati partners? :Q

that sucks ...

 

[Paratus]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: apoppin
i *do*

... and you ridiculous post needs no further response ... you belittle yourself with your *illogic* nor do you even understand my posts

worst kind of childish fanboy ... dug777

I checked, quite carefully, and got someone else to read it, just in case i was missing something

I've understood your posts and insults perfectly, and my reply makes perfect sense, yours just makes you look incapable of responding to my points, and as childish as i had suggested.

who? your mother?
:Q



let me see IF i understand it ...


i create a thread to give *my impressions* of a current nvidia gpu - 7800GS OC - after years with ATi GPUs and state that i can see no apparent IQ differences nor is *shimmering* a big deal

You *break in*, call ME a liar and state that you are 'right' - that there *are* NOTICEABLE differences - even though you ADMIT that it was a LONG time ago - your card and drivers are out of date and thus completely IRRELEVANT to my experience
:thumbsdown:


grow up

:roll:

truthfully it was always embarrassing for me to have you on "my side" in a discussion ...

Yikes!

Everybody settle down!

We don't need some mod coming in here banning folks. The last thing we need is to have more Unban Dug777 sigs again or unban Appopin for that matter.


Some people are sensitive to the shimmering and others aren't. More importantly some games are sensitive to the shimmering and some aren't.

IRC Ackmed used to have really bad shimmering on his 7800GTXs in BF2

 

[apoppin]

settle down for what ...?

someone comes into a thread i started and tells me i am all wrong and what i am not seeing is due to a weird kind of new "card-related" fanboyism

and then hurls insults all the while claiming 'he' is being persecuted

i hated having this person argue on 'my side' ...
--why should i be banned for speaking truth?

perhaps the drivers were fixed ... i *know* what i see and i did not just "look" casually ... after all *i* had to be satisfied with my purchase - or i'd stick my x1950p back in with a better PS

 

[Paratus]

I understand where you are coming from. Some folks have a hard time understanding being happy with a card from either camp.

And lets face it no one is getting banned - This is VIDEO

Anyhow back to testing my new ATI X1950PRO

(It roxors your lame NV 7800GS jk )

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Paratus
I understand where you are coming from. Some folks have a hard time understanding being happy with a card from either camp.

And lets face it no one is getting banned - This is VIDEO

Anyhow back to testing my new ATI X1950PRO

(It roxors your lame NV 7800GS jk )

thank - you

and i *still have* a x1950p ... which does not roxors my NV 7800GS OC [O/C'd] in *my* rig



i CAN be happy with EITHER card in my rig

that is the *point* of this thread

i *bet* i could "test" our dissenter and he could not tell which identical rig was being powered by ATi and which was being powered by nvidia by looking at the monitor running the same game scene side-by-side.

why i am choosing nvidia is because i don't have to buy another PS for 7800GS ... and i will probably not lose much money by selling my brand-new factory sealed x1950p/512M.

i hope

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: apoppin
EDIT: just saw your reply, CaiNaM makes total *sense* that nvidia would have fixed shimmering

and what is is about the Warranty ... are nvidia partners Starting to do what Sapphire does ... charge for RMA processing? or just PowerColor and ati partners? :Q

that sucks ...

well, the point i was trying to make was that it seems overall, nvidia's parters seem to offer better warranties overall.. there may be nv partner's like foxcomm that don't offer great warranties, but it was just my observation that, at least on the surface, it seems nv's partners offer better support...

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: apoppin
i *do*

... and you ridiculous post needs no further response ... you belittle yourself with your *illogic* nor do you even understand my posts

worst kind of childish fanboy ... dug777

I checked, quite carefully, and got someone else to read it, just in case i was missing something

I've understood your posts and insults perfectly, and my reply makes perfect sense, yours just makes you look incapable of responding to my points, and as childish as i had suggested.

who? your mother?
:Q



let me see IF i understand it ...


i create a thread to give *my impressions* of a current nvidia gpu - 7800GS OC - after years with ATi GPUs and state that i can see no apparent IQ differences nor is *shimmering* a big deal

You *break in*, call ME a liar and state that you are 'right' - that there *are* NOTICEABLE differences - even though you ADMIT that it was a LONG time ago - your card and drivers are out of date and thus completely IRRELEVANT to my experience
:thumbsdown:


grow up

:roll:

truthfully it was always embarrassing for me to have you on "my side" in a discussion ...

As a matter of fact, it wasn't my mother, it was my missus, but either way, i can't see that it matters?

I never initially said you were a liar, or in any way commented on current IQ differences.

I started this by commenting that i thought there was a noticeable difference between the relative companies at one stage, which prompted you to call me a liar, suggest that i was making this up, and then start comparing your current experiences with my experiences a few years back, all the while insulting me like a spoilt child, throwing emoticons around like confetti.

I was very careful to note that i've no current experience, and that i was referring to comparisons i had undertaken in the past, yet you've managed to interpret this as me referring to current IQ comparisons somehow, as if they are somehow relevant in your quest to prove that i'm a liar...

As you say, i'm sure you could put a G80 and X1950 head to head, and i wouldn't be at all surprised if i couldn't tell the difference, but that has nothing to do with what i said, and if you'd bothered to read my posts before flying off the handle you'd realise that

As a concluding question, where has all this 'on your side' nonsense sprung from? I was never 'on your side' as you put it, and i've always called it as i saw it.