Any of you hippies protest at Wall Street?

[preslove]

opening up a new small business =/= opening up a retail shop in a mall

those are the dead opportunities I'm talking about.

You're not making a coherent argument. You're babbling bullshit to justify your nonsensical beliefs. eBay having a couple good years is not going to grow our economy.

This is why these protests are important:

It's the aggregate demand, stupid. A couple decades of extreme income inequality isn't good for the health of the economy...

 

[TheAdvocate]

Oh no! This one lives with mom. Better bring the system down.

This is the problem with the current generation.

Really poor reasoning. They both have points.

One of my coworkers is Japanese. He immigrated here because of the stagnant Japanese economy in the 90s. He was happy at the time that there was a place to go, but now he feels that we are repeating the massive decade plus recession that they endured.

But that's not my point. The point is, they have an entire generation of disenfrachised people who never moved through the capitalism progression ladder because of the "corrections" that have lasted most of the productive portions of their lives. It is not that they were lazy or entitled or thought they were special. But they played the capitalism game, bettered themselves with degrees in engineering, science, business, even marine biology, but there were no jobs and still are not. So they've ante'd up, trusted that the system would at least give them a chance if they worked hard, and instead they've been living with their parents for most of their lives now and it's unlikely things will change.

What happens when the older generation finally dies/retires? You have this lost generation (there's actually a term for it but I speak absolutely zero japanese, maybe someone can provide), and it's absolutely crippling to societal stability.

What kills me about it, is that this guy is an otherwise diehard Republican but he's smart enough to know what is happening is going to absolutely cripple if not take down the country.

The second guy is correct too. Capitalism is supposed to be a meritocracy. It isn't one if the same people remain in power/wealth all the time by squeezing out competition and buying the govt.

 

[Ns1]

You're not making a coherent argument. You're babbling bullshit to justify your nonsensical beliefs. eBay having a couple good years is not going to grow our economy.

This is why these protests are important:

It's the aggregate demand, stupid. A couple decades of extreme income inequality isn't good for the health of the economy...

blah blah blah. you keep looking at "aggregate demand", I'll look for markets with growing demand that I can exploit.

 

[zinfamous]

last I check the gubbermint hasn't done anything to help the small business but was so fast to bailout the too big to fail banks.

this. and the banks have been siting on their government-funded piles of cash for the better part of two years now refusing to loan out for small business...which was their mandate.

as NS1 has been saying, the opportunity is there...but further: the opportunity is also not there.

 

[preslove]

blah blah blah. you keep looking at "aggregate demand", I'll look for markets with growing demand that I can exploit.

Which is not relevant to a discussion on macroeconomic issues. Every single one of your posts has been a non sequitur.

Congratulations, you're taking advantage from a terrible economy. That doesn't mean that the economy as a whole is not terrible and that the growth of a parasitic financial sector hasn't played a significant role in creating the situation.

 

[Ns1]

Which is not relevant to a discussion on macroeconomic issues.

no arguments there.

 

[bfdd]

TheAdvocate, show me all these hard workers in the USA who just aren't making it, you can't because they aren't the ones showing up to these protests. People who work hard are still working hard, except for a few. If you've done nothing but collect social services for the last couple years while "looking" for work. You aren't a hard worker. Hard workers make work for themselves and will chase a dollar down to earn it. You're defending lazy "over educated" fucks. I'm glad to see I'm not the only high school drop out with a job doing decent for himself.

 

[preslove]

no arguments there.

Great. You're a troll.

 

[Ns1]

Great. You're a troll.

you're arguing macroeconomic issues and I'm arguing opportunities are there if you care to find them. call me a troll if you want though, I dont' give a fuck. That'll be a first for me!

 

[Patranus]

This one is pretty classic.
So you are on disability but have the ability to go out and (claim to) sell yourself.

Hrm.

Not sure why one couldn't get a job in a field if you can do physical labor on the street.

If you believe that why are you in school?

Oh no! You lost your RV. Whatever will you do.

Also don't get this argument. Why would you leave the military if you know you cannot get a job?

 

[sportage]

Lazy ass bums filled with class envy.

When they march for healthcare sign me up though.

Sorry to see so many detached from reality.
If A = B and B = C, then A = C (don't ya know?)....

 

[AstroManLuca]

If you believe that why are you in school?

Most likely he was already going into debt when the economic collapse began. At first it seemed like a smarter prospect to just stay in school and ride it out, but as things have gotten worse, it's become more and more clear that simply having a degree won't bail him out and things won't turn around before he graduates. But if you're 75% done with a degree, why stop and let all that money you spent go to waste?

Oh no! You lost your RV. Whatever will you do.

As you can see he lost a lot more than his RV. Not to mention all the stress of hauling your ass from one state to another for work, only to lose that work and end up worse off than when you started.

The fact that this guy once was rather well off and is now living paycheck to paycheck also illustrates the point that it's not only the poorer people who are having trouble, it's everyone. Everyone except the super rich, of course.

Also don't get this argument. Why would you leave the military if you know you cannot get a job?

Maybe she wanted to start a family, get some stability, not go through one deployment after another? A typical military commitment is, what, six years? Since she's 24, that means she's been serving since she was fresh out of high school. The whole military lifestyle might be fine when you're young, but at some point you want to settle down. I don't see how you can ask someone to endure a permanent long-distance relationship that puts them at great risk for months at a time just in order to afford food and shelter.

Many of these people are essentially indentured servants. Sure, they are technically "free," but they don't really have any freedom.

I didn't quote/respond to the first one because it does seem kind of weird. If you're on disability how are you able to do THAT kind of work?

 

[Patranus]

Poor baby. Didn't know that living by yourself was an entitlement.

So your stepfather makes too much money at his job but doesn't work. Hrm.

You mother is an idiot.

So take your marketable skills to another employer.

huh?

What is wrong with this image?

 

[dwell]

I dropped out of college, moved to CA and painted lines in parking lots for a year while learning to code on a borrowed laptop and an old C++ book. I got a programming job from the skills I taught myself and was able to finish my degree on the company's dime. I busted my ass for ten years and sacrificed my free time to continue learning. Now I make enormous amounts of money and with my skills I will never be unemployed.

I am the 1%. Fuck all you lazy hippies.

 

[Patranus]

Hrm. Maybe you should have been in a stable relationship and financial position before having a kid.

You are really trying to get sympathy?

Doubtful unless you cheated on your taxes.

 

[Patranus]

75% of these are because people have student debt and expect someone else to pay for it.
Another 20% are due to peoples own choices.
Another 4% have no beef. They are simply claiming something that is a non issue.
1% may have a legitimate issue if they are being factually accurate in their posts.

 

[Juked07]

I bet you not even 25% of the "99 percent" can make a coherent argument how Wall Street caused their misfortune. Actually 90+% of them would state objectively incorrect statements in an attempt in doing so.

Whether Wall Street really is the right target for their blame, I don't know. But I can pretty much guarantee that they don't know either. It's a complicated issue. Sure is fun to point fingers and make sweeping statements though.

 

[bfdd]

man these guys have really nice cell phones, i'm still using my 15 dollar go phone i threw my sim card in a few years ago. works really well for calls and texts. not sure why i need much else.

 

[TheAdvocate]

TheAdvocate, show me all these hard workers in the USA.

Unfortunately, I am busy working, but if you have any sincere desire to learn about the lost generation in Japan (since ours has yet to be properly journalized), I am quite sure that there are treasure troves of information. This guy I am talking about is no slouch, he was an actuary before getting into our field.

One other point about most of these criticisms are the obvious contradictions:

"go better yourself.... you lazy over educated fucks"

and criticizing excessive consumerism (and related debt), when that's exactly what fuels this faux economy we have.

Zinfamous - you mentioned all the banks sitting on cash. They are. The problem is that they cannot find qualified applicants under traditional sound underwriting criteria to lend it to. For the past 3-4 years banks have been "derisking" their portfolios of unsecured and soft secured loans, especially lines of credit, that were used by borrowers to capitalize their businesses as equity, not as debt. Said another way, they weren't properly colateralized, they were incorrectly structured as interest only, and the balances were not paid back when the assets they financed turned to profits (which, be default, turns them into equity positions). Equity positions in small businesses, at loan spreads, is a mathematical certainty of loss over time and the math is really easy to grasp.

Say you loan 10 small businesses #250k each, with which they are supposed to buy raw materials/productive assets, convert them to profits, and then pay you back (and if its cyclical, borrow again against a line and repeat the process). Your cost of capital is say 2% and the loans are 7% (oversimplified, but for illustration...). Your spread is 5%.

If 9 of the 10 loans perform, in one year, on an Int Only basis, you've made 5% (which is a huge spread by the way) x $225,000 = $112.5k on those assets. If the 10th guy defaults (10% default ratio is a bit high hsitorically, but not lately, not at all), and you are unable to recover but 50% from him (optimistic since most of these loans are soft secured by A/R, Inv, etc), you're still out $125,000, plus the costs of that recovery. $112.5k in profits versus $125k in losses. It only take one loss to wipe out an entire group of performing loans. And many times, the loss is closer to 100% (total) or more (loan + expenses).

So the only way to prevent that is to engage sound underwriting policies that require collateral, "skin in the game" (down payment), etc etc that most borrower's cannot qualify for because they simply don't have it.

I could give you the retail banking lecture about performing mortgages to low DTI couples with excellent credit who cannot refinance because the market value has dropped out of their homes (not without them putting up gobs of cash), but I think you get the point.

If anyone can figure out the solution, let me know. In the meantime, I'll continue to watch banking executives take home enormous bonuses for doing the "hard work" of firing all their worker bees... Seems fair.

 

[Blitzvogel]

I received three credit cards, bought all sorts of shit I didn't need, and took out loans to pay for the credit card debt I had. I made no effort to curb my luxurious spending, fed myself expensive non-nutritious food, nor even try to walk to work the exhausting one mile away it's located.

Ok, there are plenty of things wrong in this world, and safety nets would be nice, but seriously, quit taking out expensive mortgages, unnecessary loans, and making risky investments when you know it's risky. Just because the service was made available to you does not mean the bank is liable when it was YOU who agreed to the loan, the interest, and the date by when you would pay it back. It's all RISK. RISK. RISK. RISK. GET THE FUDGE OVER IT.

Vote with your money.

Learn to save your money.

Build credit safely by having your own safety net of cash you saved when you start trying to build credit (since you know have to have it unfortunately).

Pay in full as much as you can within reason. Who needs credit when you pay in full?


There needs to be some serious social change in this country.

 

[bfdd]

I bet you not even 25% of the "99 percent" can make a coherent argument how Wall Street caused their misfortune. Actually 90+% of them would state objectively incorrect statements in an attempt in doing so.

Whether Wall Street really is the right target for their blame, I don't know. But I can pretty much guarantee that they don't know either. It's a complicated issue. Sure is fun to point fingers and make sweeping statements though.

It isn't, they're fucking retarded. Their issues were created by numerous institutions with our own Government at the helm. Professors and those who run big universities want big checks, so cost to go there goes up. They deserve it right? They're the ones with the degrees and high level education needed to teach others and the resources to do it. Nope can't demonize those people because they 'earned' it right? What about the others? It's just a matter of "waah I want what I can't have so I'm going to bitch about it." For most of the people. Why would you take on tons of debt for school? Did you not do the research before hand to see if it would pay off or how you could make it pay off? No you just wanted to go and have the job there for you when you were done and get paid ass loads for it.

When the Occupy movement starts yelling for the heads of our political "leaders" as well as those of Wall Street, they'll get my support, until then they're just uninformed retards who think to much for their own good.

Advocate, I know about the lost generation in Japan, not all of them were lost though. I know all about the NEET shit that goes on in Japan. There are crucial cultural differences between the USA and Japan though. For instance we're a nation of one, they're one for the nation.

 

[mmntech]

I'm a conservative at heart but I do support these guys in theory. I just don't support their BS socialist agenda.

It's getting very obvious that the system is broken. Left and Right are just two sides to the same political coin. You're the slave to heartless business or dependent on a heartless government. You're a tool to be used or an obstacle to be conquered. I think the problems lay at some deeper root of society. The way Wall Street et al behave is a symptom rather than the cause. The question is, what do we replace this broken system with?

That's a question I've been struggling with. I've been tossing around a few very undeveloped concepts in my head.

 

[Mr. Lennon]

75% of these are because people have student debt and expect someone else to pay for it.
Another 20% are due to peoples own choices.
Another 4% have no beef. They are simply claiming something that is a non issue.
1% may have a legitimate issue if they are being factually accurate in their posts.

I agree that a lot of these people posting on this website are just looking for somewhere to vent about their failures. The photo you posted from the 2 time felon is fucking laughable. I wouldn't let these photos paint the whole picture of the suffering middle class though. You guys can keep talking about your personal success all you want...not everyone is born a entrepreneur. There needs to be jobs for the unskilled/mediocre skilled laborer so they can buy your services/ground breaking products. The path we are going down is leading us to a 2 class system....which isn't good for anyone.

 

[Arkaign]

Our country is flat-out 100% doomed to total failure within the decade. Our government, our financial system, our corporate environment, our labor force, our declining education standards, it's just a disaster that has only survived this long by pure inertia.

The Soviet Union's fall is a mirror image model for what will happen to us very soon. We can only hope that we manage half as well on the other side of the gate. Russia is a virtual mafia state these days, it will be somewhat ironic watching Putin smirking at us as Obama or Perry or whichever jackass in the oval office has to announce the end of the united states.

 

[Arkaign]

I'm a conservative at heart but I do support these guys in theory. I just don't support their BS socialist agenda.

It's getting very obvious that the system is broken. Left and Right are just two sides to the same political coin. You're the slave to heartless business or dependent on a heartless government. You're a tool to be used or an obstacle to be conquered. I think the problems lay at some deeper root of society. The way Wall Street et al behave is a symptom rather than the cause. The question is, what do we replace this broken system with?

That's a question I've been struggling with. I've been tossing around a few very undeveloped concepts in my head.

A reasonable man

I don't think there are answers though. It's like trying to duct-tape the titanic after the iceberg.