Anti-ACORN filmmaker arrested

[CaptnKirk]

LOL, it's a conspiracy

Technically, yes . . they did in fact conspire to commit a felony against the United States of America.

That is a documented fact.

The depth of their activity, and the scope or involvement of any other un-indicted co-conspirators is open to investigation.

In a time of War, it could be considered as Treason, if the Feds decide that there is substance.


A wise philosopher once said,

"Stupid is as stupid does"

Gump

 

[Patranus]

Technically, yes . . they did in fact conspire to commit a felony against the United States of America.

That is a documented fact.

Documented fact?
What crimes have they been convicted of?

 

[HumblePie]

Documented fact?
What crimes have they been convicted of?

Uhh illegal wiretapping?

 

[Patranus]

Uhh illegal wiretapping?

Was there a trial last night?
Did I miss something?

They are *accused* of wiretapping. It is by no means a "document fact" that is what actually happened.

Please link to the documentation that proves the accusations are indeed facts.

 

[Fern]

Uhh illegal wiretapping?

Wiretapping?

Wiretapping hasn't been alleged yet.

This reminds of why I watch several news sources. You'll get to see the news spun several ways and it's makes one cautious about trusting even the MSM.

Last night I watched this story reported on by three cable news shows, each a bity differently:

1. Chris Matthews (Hardball). His whole piece claimed that they were busted for wiretapping without explaining where he got that bit, he just ran with it.

2. Olbermann. He had Jonathan Turley (Constitutional attorney/scholar/professor) on to discuss it. Turley noted specificially that these people were NOT charged with wiretapping. He said if they are, they will be looking at far more time than 10 yrs. I.e., unlike Matthew's show, this show acknowledges they were NOT caught with electronic surveilence equipment and so far NO witetapping claim or charges.

3. Brett Baer's show. Reported a statement from accused saying they were not wiretapping, and had no intention to so.

3 shows, 3 different takes on the same story. Matthews looks irrepsonsible here.

I'm curious to find exactly what they were trying to do. And why Mary Landu (sp?)

Fern

 

[Fern]

Was there a trial last night?
Did I miss something?

They are *accused* of wiretapping. It is by no means a "document fact" that is what actually happened.

Please link to the documentation that proves the accusations are indeed facts.

No, they are accussed of "interferring" with the phone equipment. See my post above, as explained by Jonathan Turley these are not same things.

Fern

 

[Patranus]

No, they are accussed of "interferring" with the phone equipment. See my post above, as explained by Jonathan Turley these are not same things.

Fern

You are correct. I was simply using HumblePie's word.

 

[hal2kilo]

1. Chris Matthews (Hardball). His whole piece claimed that they were busted for wiretapping without explaining where he got that bit, he just ran with it.

3 shows, 3 different takes on the same story. Matthews looks irrepsonsible here.
/QUOTE]

He as consistent as any man who claims to get tingles up his leg by things said by other men. (And no I'm not a homophobe).

 

[soundforbjt]

I'm sure they broke alot of laws that can be piled on to see if one of them will talk (rat out his friends).

 

[HumblePie]

You are correct. I was simply using HumblePie's word.

Accused of using false pretense to gain access to a government facility. Of attempting to do something with the phone lines.

What they are accused of is breaking the law. Period. By being accused of breaking the law, they are thus being accused of being criminal. I'm using abstracts here since you seem to go after semantics like a dog in a tug of war with some smelly underwear.

Okay wiretapping at this point is just an inference. It may be added on later, but who cares at this point? The point is they are being charged and accused of CRIMINAL activities. Since it was criminal activity on government property answers your question.

What crimes have they been convicted of?

If it turns out they were trying to wiretap, then they'll get that thrown at them as well. Right now though they are being held while investigations are going on to determine exactly what and all that can thrown at them.

 

[marincounty]

Wow. It must be nice to be totally ideologically driven, saving all the time that the rest of us spend thinking.

It wasn't ideology, it was instinct. Acorn (which gets minimal amounts of federal dollars), helps to register poor voters. Republicans have always been opposed to this because they think they will vote for Democrats. Right wing activists orchestrate sting against Acorn.
I suspect ideologically driven smear against Acorn- facts tend to agree with my instincts.

 

[Patranus]

Accused of using false pretense to gain access to a government facility. Of attempting to do something with the phone lines.

What they are accused of is breaking the law. Period. By being accused of breaking the law, they are thus being accused of being criminal. I'm using abstracts here since you seem to go after semantics like a dog in a tug of war with some smelly underwear.

Okay wiretapping at this point is just an inference. It may be added on later, but who cares at this point? The point is they are being charged and accused of CRIMINAL activities. Since it was criminal activity on government property answers your question.



If it turns out they were trying to wiretap, then they'll get that thrown at them as well. Right now though they are being held while investigations are going on to determine exactly what and all that can thrown at them.

You were the one who responded to my questioning of the phrase "documented fact" with "illegal wiretapping".

No one is say that (if they did commit a crime and are found guilty) they should be let go but to call them criminals BEFORE they are found guilty undermines the entire premise of the legal system in the United States.

Innocent UNTIL PROVEN guilty.

It wasn't ideology, it was instinct. Acorn (which gets minimal amounts of federal dollars), helps to register poor voters. Republicans have always been opposed to this because they think they will vote for Democrats. Right wing activists orchestrate sting against Acorn.
I suspect ideologically driven smear against Acorn- facts tend to agree with my instincts.

The basis for your argument is incorrect. It has nothing to do with registering voters simply the fact that it is a waste of money. ACORN voter registration drives provide a duplicate service to those all ready provided by the government. Couple that with ACORN actively politicking and you can see the problem.

After all, ACORN is under investigation or has been convicted of crimes in more than 1/2 the states.

 

[HumblePie]

I didn't call them criminal, I said they were accused of criminal activities. But you are right, for some reason I mis-read the "convicted" part when you asked that question. I retract that as I was thinking something else.

No, these kids aren't convicted yet of anything regarding this incident. However, people can and will speculate upon the event of conviction if it occurs.

 

[runzwithsizorz]

Wiretapping?

Wiretapping hasn't been alleged yet.

This reminds of why I watch several news sources. You'll get to see the news spun several ways and it's makes one cautious about trusting even the MSM.

Last night I watched this story reported on by three cable news shows, each a bity differently:

1. Chris Matthews (Hardball). His whole piece claimed that they were busted for wiretapping without explaining where he got that bit, he just ran with it.

2. Olbermann. He had Jonathan Turley (Constitutional attorney/scholar/professor) on to discuss it. Turley noted specificially that these people were NOT charged with wiretapping. He said if they are, they will be looking at far more time than 10 yrs. I.e., unlike Matthew's show, this show acknowledges they were NOT caught with electronic surveilence equipment and so far NO witetapping claim or charges.

3. Brett Baer's show. Reported a statement from accused saying they were not wiretapping, and had no intention to so.

3 shows, 3 different takes on the same story. Matthews looks irrepsonsible here.

I'm curious to find exactly what they were trying to do. And why Mary Landu (sp?)

Fern

In light of the fact that they did not have any bugging equipment, or prior training on how to install it, do you really believe that senator Mary Landrieu was indeed THE target? Think, man think! It could have been any senators office, D, or R. I would be willing to bet that some changes are being made in Mary's office as we speak. Some seem to think that their sole motivation is to discredit the Dems, I would like to think that they are out to expose weakness, vulnerabilities, and corruption, and so far their batting a thousand. ALSO, to make a good amount of change on a story that sells, and trust me, there will be a story. Not since Heraldo, and the vault, have we seen such risk taking in journalism.

 

[hal2kilo]

Not since Heraldo, and the vault, have we seen such risk taking in journalism.

That turned out well didn't it.

 

[Patranus]

====

 

[soundforbjt]

In light of the fact that they did not have any bugging equipment, or prior training on how to install it, do you really believe that senator Mary Landrieu was indeed THE target? Think, man think! It could have been any senators office, D, or R. I would be willing to bet that some changes are being made in Mary's office as we speak. Some seem to think that their sole motivation is to discredit the Dems, I would like to think that they are out to expose weakness, vulnerabilities, and corruption, and so far their batting a thousand. ALSO, to make a good amount of change on a story that sells, and trust me, there will be a story. Not since Heraldo, and the vault, have we seen such risk taking in journalism.

It has not been established yet, whether they had any electronic devices with them or not. They were using cellphones to video record their "escapade", but it has not come out as to whether they had any tapping equipment with them AFAIK. Mary Landrieu was allegedly the target as they entered her office first.

 

[marincounty]

You were the one who responded to my questioning of the phrase "documented fact" with "illegal wiretapping".

No one is say that (if they did commit a crime and are found guilty) they should be let go but to call them criminals BEFORE they are found guilty undermines the entire premise of the legal system in the United States.

Innocent UNTIL PROVEN guilty.



The basis for your argument is incorrect. It has nothing to do with registering voters simply the fact that it is a waste of money. ACORN voter registration drives provide a duplicate service to those all ready provided by the government. Couple that with ACORN actively politicking and you can see the problem.

After all, ACORN is under investigation or has been convicted of crimes in more than 1/2 the states.

I know Acorn is probably a waste of money, but it is not a lot of money, really.

According to a Congressional report, the group has received $53 million in federal funds since 1994. But the nonpartisan Politifact.com reported in May that most of that money went to the ACORN Housing Corporation, one of the group's many affiliates

The Fed Govt is spending more than the total of all federal funds received by Acorn in 15 years in one year on Abstinence education. We're spending $2 Billion per day on the military.

It's like an unemployed person worried about buying cigarettes when they have a car payment due on their Escalade.

The hate for Acorn is ideological.

ACORN is a nonpartisan organization, but its legally separate political action arm frequently endorses left-leaning causes and candidates, including the 2008 Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama.[4][51][52][53] ACORN has lobbied in every Democratic National Convention since 1980[54] and has had members elected as delegates to those conventions;[54] ACORN has also lobbied at Republican conventions.[54] ACORN has been criticized by Republicans for its support of a Democratic candidate and for its general support of political positions that are more often favored by Democrats.[

In October 2008, the campaign for Republican presidential candidate John McCain released a Web-based advertisement claiming ACORN was responsible for "massive voter fraud," a point that Sen. McCain repeated in the final presidential debate. Factcheck.org called this claim "breathtakingly inaccurate," but acknowledged that ACORN had problems with phony registrations.[62] The ads also claimed that home loan programs ACORN promoted were partly responsible for the sub-prime mortgage crisis. Newsweek and Factcheck.org also found these claims to be exaggerated and inaccurate.[63]

A poll released in November 2009 by the Public Policy Polling organization found that 52% of Republican Party members it surveyed, and 26% of respondents overall, believed in a conspiracy theory that ACORN "stole" the election for Barack Obama. The Democratic polling organization commented that this was somewhat higher than belief in the birther conspiracy theories.[64]

I get it, righties have an insane fixation on Acorn which has been encouraged by right wing political figures.

 

[werepossum]

In light of the fact that they did not have any bugging equipment, or prior training on how to install it, do you really believe that senator Mary Landrieu was indeed THE target? Think, man think! It could have been any senators office, D, or R. I would be willing to bet that some changes are being made in Mary's office as we speak. Some seem to think that their sole motivation is to discredit the Dems, I would like to think that they are out to expose weakness, vulnerabilities, and corruption, and so far their batting a thousand. ALSO, to make a good amount of change on a story that sells, and trust me, there will be a story. Not since Heraldo, and the vault, have we seen such risk taking in journalism.

Wait - HOW are they batting a thousand? They got their narrow asses arrested on felony charges; that sure seems like a strike-out on consecutive pitches to me. The charges may not stick, but I'd guess 75% or so of the population believes they should be prosecuted, probably at least 50% will never again trust any allegations they make without some damn impressive evidence, and maybe 25% that would have been prepared to give O'Keefe the benefit of the doubt (based on his excellent expose on ACORN) are now just the opposite. Unless they are trying to be the next Sasha Cohen or Jackass, I'd say they've screwed themselves royally. Personally I will always have an element of doubt about anything these guys do, no matter how well documented.

 

[Lemon law]

They may be lucky they are not charged with treason. Any US senator in their area of expertise are made privy to basically top secret documents are are duty bound not to
divulge the documents and their contents unless they are speaking with other Senators with similar clearances.

So by getting access to her telephone lines, all manner of mischief and serious intelligence breeches can be preformed. And we would likely very angry at any foreign entity that pulled such a stunt. And I am very happy to learn these idiots were caught in time.

Nor do I think we can call it no harm no foul, should we apply the same criteria to Richard Reed the shoe bomber or the Xmas Al-Quida bomber? Or for that matter, the idiot who hacked Sarah Palin's e-mail account.

 

[PJABBER]

I know Acorn is probably a waste of money, but it is not a lot of money, really.

According to a Congressional report, the group has received $53 million in federal funds since 1994. But the nonpartisan Politifact.com reported in May that most of that money went to the ACORN Housing Corporation, one of the group's many affiliates

$53 million, your figures, and not counting the "membership fees" from the poor, is a lot of money to pay to an organization that was set up specifically to bring the government that gives them the money down. As a taxpayer, I can think of a hell of a lot better ways to use federal funds.

The hate for Acorn is ideological.

ACORN is a nonpartisan organization, but its legally separate political action arm frequently endorses left-leaning causes and candidates, including the 2008 Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama.[4][51][52][53] ACORN has lobbied in every Democratic National Convention since 1980[54] and has had members elected as delegates to those conventions;[54] ACORN has also lobbied at Republican conventions.[54] ACORN has been criticized by Republicans for its support of a Democratic candidate and for its general support of political positions that are more often favored by Democrats.

Nice generalities from a Wiki article, which, of course, is disputed since it is an attempt at whitewash. ACORN, by its own admission and by any number of reviews of their efforts and expenditures is focused entirely on electing liberal Democrats.

Can you name one Republican campaign that they supported? Look at their expenditures, those that are not hidden, and their GOTV campaigns - 100% Democrat or their own Working Peoples Party.

Nothing wrong with being a partisan organization, so why do you take the extra step of lying that ACORN is somehow neutral or bipartisan or non-partisan. It is anything but.

I get it, righties have an insane fixation on Acorn which has been encouraged by right wing political figures.

What we get from your statements is that YOU have an insane fixation on ACORN. The real question, that you fail to address in any substantive form, is why?

Are you employed as a shill for ACORN? If so, that must be a completely depressing job.

And why do so? Because you are a true believer in Wade Rathke? Because some high school or college professor convinced you that radical politics and left wing ideology is the way to salvation?

No matter what is said about ACORN, backed by referenced fact, and explained at length, you keep those starry eyed blinders on.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2044080

Posts #19 and #20. Feel free to address the facts. In the meantime, you are just a shill without merit.

 

[hal2kilo]

They may be lucky they are not charged with treason. Any US senator in their area of expertise are made privy to basically top secret documents are are duty bound not to
divulge the documents and their contents unless they are speaking with other Senators with similar clearances.

So by getting access to her telephone lines, all manner of mischief and serious intelligence breeches can be preformed. And we would likely very angry at any foreign entity that pulled such a stunt. And I am very happy to learn these idiots were caught in time.

Nor do I think we can call it no harm no foul, should we apply the same criteria to Richard Reed the shoe bomber or the Xmas Al-Quida bomber? Or for that matter, the idiot who hacked Sarah Palin's e-mail account.

Repubs and cons would never do anything like this...
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/01/22/infiltration_of_files_seen_as_extensive/

 

[marincounty]

blah, blah, blah

Dude, you need to put down the pipe. I've got no great love for Acorn, I didn't even know about them until righties tried to make them a campaign issue.

It may be a wate of money, but in case you haven't noticed, the govt wastes exponentially more money on even worse programs, like abstinence education, for example.
Why aren't you screaming to get our troops out of Iraq?
Pull your partisan head out of your ass and complain about a real problem.

 

[hal2kilo]

Pull your partisan head out of your ass and complain about a real problem.

Unfortunately, they don't make crowbars that big.

 

[PJABBER]

They may be lucky they are not charged with treason...

So by getting access to her telephone lines, all manner of mischief and serious intelligence breeches can be preformed. And we would likely very angry at any foreign entity that pulled such a stunt. And I am very happy to learn these idiots were caught in time.

Nor do I think we can call it no harm no foul, should we apply the same criteria to Richard Reed the shoe bomber or the Xmas Al-Quida bomber? Or for that matter, the idiot who hacked Sarah Palin's e-mail account.

Wow, treason? Really? Do you even know the meaning of the word? Or how treason is treated legally in the United States? Do you think they would be released if they were suspected of being terrorists, like the Islamists (oh, uh, nevermind, scratch that last statement!) You must be getting your talking points from the moonbat channel.

Bail amounts reflect both the seriousness of an offense and the likelihood they will not appear for trial. While the current charge is a placeholder, as is typical in a federal case while it is being developed, do you REALLY think that the feds are going to release the four on only $10,000 bail if they thought there was a serious case pending?

There is no indication that the four hid anything from the arresting officers. There is no indication that they were there to emplace wiretaps or anything else.

Of course, we do not know from current news reports or statements from the perps themselves exactly what they were attempting to do, but to conjecture and extrapolate like this simply reflects your own complete lack of rational perspective.