that's all they really can do, generally speaking. the life of the victim claimed/involved, passed away.
Linflas
Lifer
- Jan 30, 2001
- 15,395
- 78
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Sadly few here will read that or the links from HSUS I provided. They are all too busy shouting their expertise in 16 point bolded type to step back and consider all the facts.
Connoisseur
Platinum Member
- Sep 14, 2002
- 2,470
- 1
- 81
I don't think this comparison is nearly that flawed.
Vehicles fail due to mechanical failure or user negligence, people fail to secure weapons/knives leading to others shooting shit up. Accidents like this happen all the time and are several thousandfold more frequent than dog attacks. It almost always comes down to owner negligence one way or another. In the case of dogs (pits included), it's either negligence to properly train the animal or negligence in monitoring the animal. You can make the argument that the animals have their own will but once again, it comes down to properly monitoring the animal.
Keep in mind, I absolutely DO NOT DISAGREE that an owner should be held accountable to the actions of their pets. if they're not willing to take the responsibility, don't get one. Plain and simple. But a breed shouldn't be wiped out because they have the "capacity" to do violence. That's ridiculous. For every violent pit bull, there's thousands that are NOT violent. The math there just doesn't make sense.
Just because a dog is "domesticated" doesn't mean it's bed for non aggression. Pitbulls were bred for strength and gameness (willingness to continue doing whatever they are doing even if injured or threatened.
The modern pitbull which has only been a breed for a little over 100 years was bred to be a working dog, and then further bred to be a fighting dog. There may have been some traits left in that allowed them to socialize with humans better but that wasn't the intention of the breed.
Australian Cattle Dogs are to retarded to attack people. the 2 I have are dumber than a box of rocks.
The problem is that most of the dimwits that own aggressive pitbulls usually don't own homes or have insurance.
I just settled a case with a pitbull mauling. The pit came for a family with young children and it never had a history of aggression until it chased my client down and attacked her.
My cousin has two pits and both have had formal obedience training but I won't let my kids (7 & 5) around them even though they have been around dogs their entire lives.
We made sure our kids don't approach unattended animals, always ask owners to pet dogs, let the dogs sniff their hand first, don't pet on to of the head, etc. but I still won't allow them near my cousin's dogs.
I hate to hear stories like this.
I am a pitbull lover. I started with a non-biased opinion and did alot of research online as well as visiting several pitbull breeders and came to the conclusion that they are like any other dog--some are good, some are bad, much of the problems seen with them are as a direct result of people being idiots. Most people are what I call "dog retards" and know nothing about pack animals, dog instincts, and dog behaivor.
I own a 4 yo pitbull female and she is one of, if not the best dog I've ever had (sample size of about 15?) through my 30 years. The only other dog we've had that could compare would be a pit bull mutt mix we had when I was a child (I didn't even know what a pit bull was until I was grown).
My 2yo son has walked up to her while eating (this is not normal practice) and I observed her body language from around a corner so she didn't know I was there. He bent down to her bowl and started playing with her food. She proceeded to lick his hands after they got dirty and then continued on eating. I would not advocate anyone else doing something so foolish and I typically feed my dogs after the kids are in bed (just so the little ones don't make a mess with the food/water). This same kid (yes, he's a busy little man) walked up to her while she had a bone in her mouth and pulled it out of her mouth and brought it to me...again, I don't reccomend this to others but it just happened with us.
Out of the many dog fights I've been around growing up and the many, many dogs, I've NEVER seen a fight start w/out indicators. Some dogs are more clear than others, but it gets so old hearing "my dog was the sweetest Angel and I had no idea it would chase down a person and maul them!".
I could ramble all day, but bottom line is that most people are dog retards and pit bulls don't need a dog retard owner because they are powerful dogs and when the signs are ignored they can and do hurt people.
I am a pitbull lover. I started with a non-biased opinion and did alot of research online as well as visiting several pitbull breeders and came to the conclusion that they are like any other dog--some are good, some are bad, much of the problems seen with them are as a direct result of people being idiots. Most people are what I call "dog retards" and know nothing about pack animals, dog instincts, and dog behaivor.
I own a 4 yo pitbull female and she is one of, if not the best dog I've ever had (sample size of about 15?) through my 30 years. The only other dog we've had that could compare would be a pit bull mutt mix we had when I was a child (I didn't even know what a pit bull was until I was grown).
My 2yo son has walked up to her while eating (this is not normal practice) and I observed her body language from around a corner so she didn't know I was there. He bent down to her bowl and started playing with her food. She proceeded to lick his hands after they got dirty and then continued on eating. I would not advocate anyone else doing something so foolish and I typically feed my dogs after the kids are in bed (just so the little ones don't make a mess with the food/water). This same kid (yes, he's a busy little man) walked up to her while she had a bone in her mouth and pulled it out of her mouth and brought it to me...again, I don't reccomend this to others but it just happened with us.
Out of the many dog fights I've been around growing up and the many, many dogs, I've NEVER seen a fight start w/out indicators. Some dogs are more clear than others, but it gets so old hearing "my dog was the sweetest Angel and I had no idea it would chase down a person and maul them!".
I could ramble all day, but bottom line is that most people are dog retards and pit bulls don't need a dog retard owner because they are powerful dogs and when the signs are ignored they can and do hurt people.
Brigandier
Diamond Member
- Feb 12, 2008
- 4,394
- 2
- 81
- May 10, 2001
- 21,207
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I personally know a family where the pit bull, who never showed any signs of aggression, just all of sudden one day attacked the 4 year old daughter and ripped her arm off (among other things...). COMPLETELY out of the blue. Dog was put down, daughter lost her arm and has bad scars all over, including her face.
My mom is a 25 year postal carrier, and without a doubt, they are by far the only dogs she really worries about. Aside from a german sheppard or two, she has been charged by more pit bulls than any other dog.
They are aggressive dogs, just like the aforementioned chows and dalmations. With any dog, the owner, no matter how responsible, cannot be 100% in control of the dog at all times...
My mom is a 25 year postal carrier, and without a doubt, they are by far the only dogs she really worries about. Aside from a german sheppard or two, she has been charged by more pit bulls than any other dog.
They are aggressive dogs, just like the aforementioned chows and dalmations. With any dog, the owner, no matter how responsible, cannot be 100% in control of the dog at all times...
We have a Lab but we still spent a long time training our dog not to be food or toy aggressive. It makes dog so much safer around kids.
Murloc
Diamond Member
- Jun 24, 2008
- 5,382
- 65
- 91
wtf a town named truth or consequences?
It sounds so retarded for an european, I guess colonists named the villages however they felt to.
Anyway I think that:
- you can't assume people to be responsible on their own with dog education
therefore:
- to own a pitbull you must pay a tax (to demonstrate you're responsible and not a druggie, must not be high, 50$ a year is enough)
- you must go to mandatory dog training courses (these are done by anyone with any dogs, but with a pitbull it should be mandatory)
it should be enough to discourage enough irresponsible people who want the pitbull just because it has the bad dog looks.
Someone who gets one because he specifically loves pitbulls is probably a dog-lover and would go to a dog-trainer course on his own instead of chaining him in the yard.
It sounds so retarded for an european, I guess colonists named the villages however they felt to.
Anyway I think that:
- you can't assume people to be responsible on their own with dog education
therefore:
- to own a pitbull you must pay a tax (to demonstrate you're responsible and not a druggie, must not be high, 50$ a year is enough)
- you must go to mandatory dog training courses (these are done by anyone with any dogs, but with a pitbull it should be mandatory)
it should be enough to discourage enough irresponsible people who want the pitbull just because it has the bad dog looks.
Someone who gets one because he specifically loves pitbulls is probably a dog-lover and would go to a dog-trainer course on his own instead of chaining him in the yard.
Hypotheitcal counter to your proposed solution:
Dirtbag who likely pays little to no taxes buys 2-3 pitbulls and leaves them unattended in his yard all day long. He likely has payed little attention to them, and pretty much just lets them chew on each other and whatever else they can get a hold of. Dogs one day get loose and maul a local elderly woman. No tags, and no license fees ever paid since the dogs were likely bought from another dirt bag "breeder", and really no way to tie them back to this guy, unless someone saw them get out of his yard and knew what his dogs looked like.
This happens all the time. License fees only punish John and Jane taxpayer, and do NOTHING to solve the problem which is 99% caused by the lowest common denominators... Go to the local SPCA or County shelter (at least here) and 9/10 dogs will be pitbulls.
SlickSnake
Diamond Member
- May 29, 2007
- 5,235
- 2
- 0
Most people can't even raise their own kids properly, so I think it's a bit of an ignorant stretch of the imagination to expect them to fair any better with what is essentially a hostile alien species that they virtually can't communicate with at all. And the same rejects who can't raise their kids properly, also happen to think attack dogs are so cool, you know? Like this retarded fellow posting about how great they are with kids.
This is a dog bred without any other purpose than to attack and kill. They are known to attack without any warning or provocation, or hadn't you heard? And anyone claiming their 2 year old sticks its hand in the dogs food dish and mouth while its eating and you stand idly by and watch, don't deserve to have any kids. With one bite that dog could kill your kid INSTANTLY and you could not possibly stop it. You can leave a loaded gun lying around, and a 2 year old can shoot someone and kill them, too. But I wouldn't recommend that retarded parental stupidity either.
Ever heard of child endangerment? I bet CPS sure has. If I saw that stupidly retarded parent behavior and reported it to the police or CPS, your kid would fly out of your house so fast your head would spin. And you wouldn't get him back until the pitbulls were GONE.
You better hope and pray your kid never gets attacked by one, or this forum is going to come back and bite you in the ass in court.
SlickSnake
Diamond Member
- May 29, 2007
- 5,235
- 2
- 0
And some local cities in my state are considering making citizens who want to own pitbulls (or the handful of other aggressive dog species), register them like a dangerous weapon AND force them to take out 500k or 1 million dollar medical and life insurance policies just in case they kill or maul anyone, AND make it a felony to posses one without proper registration and insurance. Take that all you pitbull loving psychopaths.
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wheresmybacon
Diamond Member
- Sep 10, 2004
- 3,899
- 1
- 76
Well that settles it! Golden retrievers and sheep dogs: just as dangerous as pits!
The exception doesn't negate the rule.
- May 10, 2001
- 21,207
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Connoisseur
Platinum Member
- Sep 14, 2002
- 2,470
- 1
- 81
Just because some places are considering a rule, doesn't make it NOT retarded. I think HOA's are retarded, but they still exist. I think the tax laws are retarded, but they still exist. I think cats are retarded, but they still exist. You can't use a "well other people think so" argument.
erikistired
Diamond Member
- Sep 27, 2000
- 9,739
- 0
- 0
and i thought alkemyst lived in a world of delusion.
you can cross breed whatever you want, but that doesn't guarantee anything. you make it sound like they found the vicious gene and are amping it up while breeding their dogs.
did a pitbull bang your mom and cause your parents to divorce or something? perhaps you should try getting laid, get some of that childhood angst out.
wow, you really need to do some research on how the media sensationalizes certain topics that push the right buttons to get them ratings. hating dogs is unhealthy enough, i can't imagine what else you believe from what you've seen on the 5 o'clock news.
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I disagree. The Vicktory dogs are the greatest example of the breeds inherent desire to please the owner (nefarious intentions or otherwise). Upon seizure of the bad newz kennels (ironically discovered by a drug-sniffing dog), almost every animal organization (including the Humane Society) recommended euthanizing the 51 seized dogs, stating there were vicious beyond rehabilitation. Bad Rap and Best Friends Animal Sanctuary embarked on an intensive rehabilitation program, and today the majority of the 49 Vicktory dogs have passed their Canine Good Citizens Certification, are adopted and living in homes with small children (see https://www.facebook.com/#!/media/set/fbx/?set=a.189938484380929.38087.159115694129875 for visual evidence of these vicious dogs). The onus should be placed on the owner on an individual basis, not sweeping generalizations about the breed (as the Vicktory dogs demonstrate, even enduring conditions tantamount to hell, they still possess the ability and desire to love and be part of a family).
alkemyst
No Lifer
- Feb 13, 2001
- 83,769
- 19
- 81
I am interested where I have been delusional...
Also I am equally curious how anyone was packing in there backyard with their cat and then gets attacked by two dogs that got away.
I know down here almost every bite has pitbull being claimed and then when they finally show the dog it's nothing like a pit.
One of the huge problems is especially in the south almost all dogs will have pitbull in them...sometimes several types.
People are afraid so they want to declare genocide on an entire breed, however; it's 99.9% the owners of these dogs. It's easy to look at the owners once these dogs do get caught doing something bad and to understand.
Many have these dogs to protect their drug stashes down here. Everyone wants to rob everyone else in the 'hood so since they can't register alarms (most have no bank accounts to bill too) they get dogs that they beat from puppyhood and turn them into monsters.
Most of the dogs at my local dog park on the 30lb and over side are pits / pit mix. The next highest groups are probably golden lab/black lab and golden retrievers.
Too many see a 'terrier jawline' and assume pit as well.
In the end our citizens are to pathetic to go after the gangbanger owners and take their lack of manhood out on the tool / dog.
Gooberlx2
Lifer
- May 4, 2001
- 15,381
- 6
- 91
This. IMO, Slicksnake's "experiences" reek of bullshit. And even then, his accounting of his own pit's failings sound like his fault.
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