Another death from pitbulls.

[DesiPower]

Out of curiosity, where is it that you live? From your description, it sounds like your area is chock full of stray dogs. Stray animals are to be treated with extreme caution, regardless of breed. In addition, There's countless pit bull mixes other than the standard stereotype of a pit. If you're just worried about size and strength, there's plenty of mutts that are much smaller/more docile than the stereotype.

This is one of those hot button topics like abortion which people will never agree on. Lovers of the animal will contend that a well-trained/adjusted pit is as sweet as any other animal. People who only see the dog as powerful and vicious will never like them. In my opinion: Sure they have the capability to do harm... but so do cars, guns, knives and any other day to day objects. It's how they're handled and treated that determines whether they actually do anything.

A few examples I always like to quote. I've met a couple of the pit bulls that were rescued from Vick's dog fighting ring. Different owners, different locations. Each of the owners are experienced with dogs and have at least 2 other dogs besides the Vick pit bulls. In both instances, the pits are extremely obedient, get along amazingly with the owners (and the children) and have had no behavioral issues since getting rescued.

With that said, I absolutely agree that no dog should be left unattended around people/other animals or should be roaming free on the streets. There's too many unknowns and it's just careless ownership.

You analogy of guns is totally idiotic because of one simple fact. If the gun accidentally goes off and kills someone,the owner is in deep shit, whereas the owner of the dog is not.
AND using the same analogy, lot of lives are saved with guns too, people saving themselves their neighbors and their property with guns is very common.

The problem is not with having animals but with the consequence of your pets actions, you can have as many pit bulls as you want but if one of them harms another person, you should be charged with same charges if you did it yourself, in this case, the owner should be electrocuted.

 

[Texashiker]

In my opinion: Sure they have the capability to do harm... but so do cars, guns, knives and any other day to day objects. It's how they're handled and treated that determines whether they actually do anything.

My firearm can not leave the house under its own power and kill someone.

My truck can not crank itself, drive down the road and run some kids over.

My steak knives can not leave the drawer on their own, and attack someone.

Your comparison is flawed.

 

[Pheran]

"How many golden retrievers attack and kill people?"

Quite a few actually, but theyre considered a "good" dog so they dont hit the news anywhere near as much. For them its always an "accident". And if somebody is getting attacked by one and kills it in defense they get sued and shamed for it, labeled as a heartless animal killer.

This is BS. Let's look at the statistics. In this study over a period of 24 years, there were 6 golden bites and 1 death. Over the same period, there were 1,110 pit bull bites and 104 deaths. And that's with goldens being about the 5th most popular breed, as opposed to pit bulls which are much farther down the list, so there are many more goldens out there.

I have no doubt that bad owners play a part in pit bull attacks, but trying to say that they aren't much worse than the gentler breeds is not supported at all by the evidence.

 

[Linflas]

This is BS. Let's look at the statistics. In this study over a period of 24 years, there were 6 golden bites and 1 death. Over the same period, there were 1,110 pit bull bites and 104 deaths. And that's with goldens being about the 5th most popular breed, as opposed to pit bulls which are much farther down the list, so there are many more goldens out there.

I have no doubt that bad owners play a part in pit bull attacks, but trying to say that they aren't much worse than the gentler breeds is not supported at all by the evidence.

Have any statistics from a party that does not have a financial interest in dog bite law? Preferably statistics that show how many of the 1,110 put bull bites were from pit bulls being raised by people purposely training them to be fearsome vs pit bulls living with a normal household like the majority of goldens? I put as much faith in Attorney Phillips' statistics as I would in gaming statistics provided by Jack Thompson.

 

[Texashiker]

Preferably statistics that show how many of the 1,110 put bull bites were from pit bulls being raised by people purposely training them to be fearsome

After a pitbull attacks someone, regardless of how the dog was treated, all the owner can remember is the dog being a great animal that would never hurt anyone.

One day its a fearsome attack dog. Seconds after the attack its magically transformed into a loving animal.

Nobody is going to stand up in front of a judge or jury and admit their pitbull was a badass mofo that had been trained to attack people.

"Yea judge, that was my dog that I trained from a puppy to attack people, but I did not know it was going to attack and kill a 2 year old child. Sorry about that" - I just dont see people making confessions or that type.

 

[SlickSnake]

Out of curiosity, where is it that you live? From your description, it sounds like your area is chock full of stray dogs. Stray animals are to be treated with extreme caution, regardless of breed. In addition, There's countless pit bull mixes other than the standard stereotype of a pit. If you're just worried about size and strength, there's plenty of mutts that are much smaller/more docile than the stereotype.

This is one of those hot button topics like abortion which people will never agree on. Lovers of the animal will contend that a well-trained/adjusted pit is as sweet as any other animal. People who only see the dog as powerful and vicious will never like them. In my opinion: Sure they have the capability to do harm... but so do cars, guns, knives and any other day to day objects. It's how they're handled and treated that determines whether they actually do anything.

A few examples I always like to quote. I've met a couple of the pit bulls that were rescued from Vick's dog fighting ring. Different owners, different locations. Each of the owners are experienced with dogs and have at least 2 other dogs besides the Vick pit bulls. In both instances, the pits are extremely obedient, get along amazingly with the owners (and the children) and have had no behavioral issues since getting rescued.

With that said, I absolutely agree that no dog should be left unattended around people/other animals or should be roaming free on the streets. There's too many unknowns and it's just careless ownership.

I live in a semi-rural area near a large lake.

And I think your comparison is flawed, an inanimate object cannot randomly attack someone like a dog can.

And the Vick pitbulls he was breeding for fighting are a good example of why the breed has become as viscous and bloodthirsty as it is. I simply could not trust a dog from him, no matter how docile it seemed, and would not be stupid enough to even risk it.

I have had a somewhat docile pitbull before I raised from a puppy I found In a garbage can at work, and when I got it I had no experience with the breed, and didn't even realize what it was until someone else pointed it out when it was grown.

It constantly fought with my German Shepard (an ex-police dog, retired) and an Irish Setter I saved from a pound when it was close to death from an infection. One day, it attacked and chased the setter out of my yard somehow while I was at work, over the 6 foot fence and locked gate, and I never saw the setter again. I would frequently have to go outside with a broom to make it stop attacking the other dogs. I tried to train it somewhat, but at the time I could not find anyplace willing to train it professionally. It would rip 6"x6' fence boards off my new fence, so we could play fetch the fence boards.

When I moved to an apartment about 2 years later, I placed multiple adds to try to place it, and no one responded. When I finally called the city pound to pick it up, the animal control guy refused to get anywhere near it and waited in the cab of his truck so I could load it myself. I hated to do it, but I had no choice, and the dog was huge. I could barely lift it into the truck. The animal control guy told me when they got a call on a pitbull, or other similarly viscous dog, they were told not to get out of the cab until an officer arrived in case something happened.

 

[Pheran]

Have any statistics from a party that does not have a financial interest in dog bite law? Preferably statistics that show how many of the 1,110 put bull bites were from pit bulls being raised by people purposely training them to be fearsome vs pit bulls living with a normal household like the majority of goldens? I put as much faith in Attorney Phillips' statistics as I would in gaming statistics provided by Jack Thompson.

That study isn't even done by that site. If it makes you feel any better, here is a more recent version hosted at a different site. Once again, pit bulls are by far the #1 killer despite not being anywhere near the most popular breed.

Oh, but never mind, it's all a conspiracy theory. Pit bulls are completely safe.

 

[alkemyst]

The problem is pit bull is a FAR to wide category. You have dogs like Petey from Little Rascals and the boxer mixes above in many cases just being good dogs and then some assfcuk with a pit that looks more Presa Canario than a nice dog creates an issue.

Australian Cattle dogs have bull terrier in them but hardly look 'pit' at times.

 

[SlickSnake]

Have any statistics from a party that does not have a financial interest in dog bite law? Preferably statistics that show how many of the 1,110 put bull bites were from pit bulls being raised by people purposely training them to be fearsome vs pit bulls living with a normal household like the majority of goldens? I put as much faith in Attorney Phillips' statistics as I would in gaming statistics provided by Jack Thompson.

I have seen that website before, the statistics are total bunk and EXTREMELY under reported. And trying to sort them by breed is a fools errand since most are going to be mutts of some sort and possibly not even identified properly. I know my attack and many others within my city are obviously not reflected in those statistics. You couldn't even begin to get meaningful numbers for how many were trained to be attack or not, either.

 

[stargazr]

Kill the dogs kill the owners and kill the usless breed. All forms of pet ownership should be illegal. Anyone with a Pitbull is a moron.

Again with the anti-dog rhetoric.

You strike me as the kind of sniveling little wise and beautiful woman who would kick a dog for no reason.

 

[Capt Caveman]

I've never heard of an accidental Golden Retriever death. I'm sorry but if one mauled a person to death it would be the main story on CNN and on the front page of ever news paper in america. If for nothing else than the WTF factor. I'm not saying Pitbulls are dangerous, I know plenty that are friendly as a Golden Retriever, but please link me to these stories where G.R's have mauled people.

Here you go:

Dog That Mauled Owner To Death To Be Killed

FRIENDSWOOD, Texas -- One of three dogs that mauled a woman to death will be euthanized, KPRC Local 2 reported Thursday.

Pamela Rushing, 50, was found dead in the back yard of her home in the 300 block of Meadow Trail Court in Friendswood on March 17.

Animal control officials seized two of the dogs, a golden retriever and an Australian shepherd.

Rushing's widower agreed to declare the golden retriever a vicious animal, requiring the dog be euthanized.

The Australian shepherd was declared a dangerous dog. Rushing may keep the dog if he follows stipulations including registering the dog with the city, obtaining $100,000 worth of liability insurance, muzzling the dog while outside a proper enclosure and spaying or neutering the dog.

A Friendswood police officer shot one of the dogs to death when it tried to attack an officer who approached Rushing's body, police said.

 

[DougK62]

That study isn't even done by that site. If it makes you feel any better, here is a more recent version hosted at a different site. Once again, pit bulls are by far the #1 killer despite not being anywhere near the most popular breed.

Oh, but never mind, it's all a conspiracy theory. Pit bulls are completely safe.

This really isn't a very hard concept to grasp. NO ONE is saying that there aren't many cases of pit bull attacks around the country. They exist, the numbers are out there, it's real. What people ARE saying is that these attacks are caused by the owners who purposefully purchase the animals because they are large, muscular dogs that look "badass" and then treat the dog poorly and/or do not train it properly.

This is NOT the fault of the breed, as can be witnessed by the many pit bull owners who have raised their dog properly and have no problems.

 

[Pheran]

This really isn't a very hard concept to grasp. NO ONE is saying that there aren't many cases of pit bull attacks around the country. They exist, the numbers are out there, it's real. What people ARE saying is that these attacks are caused by the owners who purposefully purchase the animals because they are large, muscular dogs that look "badass" and then treat the dog poorly and/or do not train it properly.

I might believe that if the numbers weren't so overwhelming, but as they stand, I have to believe that the breed is part of the problem. I already stated that I'm sure at least some of the owners contribute to it as well.

This is NOT the fault of the breed, as can be witnessed by the many pit bull owners who have raised their dog properly and have no problems.

That means absolutely nothing - of course there are plenty of owners with no problems. The incidents we are talking about are relatively rare in general - if dogs were going around killing people all the time nobody would own them. The only thing you can do in this case is compare the breeds involved when something does happen. Unfortunately, comparing the competence of the owners and the training/treatment of the dog in question is a far more difficult proposition.

 

[AstroManLuca]

The problem with pit bulls, other than the obvious one (if they aren't properly trained and go nuts, they can do actual damage), is that the people who make the best dog owners want nothing to do with them. And the people who make shitty dog owners love them. Losing combination.

I hate to advocate wiping out an entire breed and a bunch of innocent dogs with responsible owners, but how about classifying pit bulls as weapons and requiring a background check and a competency exam to own one? You have to pass a background check to buy a gun, why should a pit bull be any different? If you aren't smart or responsible enough to pass a simple test or are a convicted felon, no pit bull for you. You can get a poodle instead.

 

[zinfamous]

Right now, there is an almost full grown German Shepard walking outside my fence in the front yard that can jump the 4 foot fence. I know it is friendly to cats and people, but our cops don't know that. If I called them right now and they came out, or they happened to drive by they would shoot it before I could stop them. I have warned the new neighbors about the cops shooting dogs here. I could also direct you to a message board full of careless jackass neighbors of my city complaining about their dogs being shot and killed or injured for not keeping them in their yard. And the cops aren't the only ones shooting at stray ferocious dogs here. The citizens have shot at more than the cops have, by a long shot.

And since I'm also on a fire department with EMS training, I'm also a first responder to a lot of the attacks and shootings we have here that you never will hear about on the news.

physical traits have been successfully bred into the American Bull terrier and other "pit bull" breeds for a few centuries now. This can be done quite quickly.

behavior, however, takes a bit more time. The dog is a heavily domesticated animal. Behavior for a dog is very much determined by training--by environment. The instinct of a 50,000 year-old breeding program in an animal like a dog is "companion;" not "man killer."

comparing the instincts of a dog to an undomesticated species like a wolf is specious at best.

 

[sactoking]

With a pit bull everyone always finds an excuse to write it off. Oh the pit was threatened! Or it was teased, or "it was the trainer's fault", or it wasn't really a pit it was a "mixed breed"!

Fixed

 

[amdhunter]

I also wanted to add that when I'm ready to get my own dog, it's a rescue all the way (and most likely a pit). I can't stand breeders and the people who buy from them. There's literally hundreds of thousands of animals of all ages, shapes and sizes in shelters which are basically waiting to die. They're being GIVEN away yet some people still want to go to a breeder.

For those who got their animals from a breeder and love them, good for you. But it's encouraging the already rampant over-population of pets and the ones in shelters need a lot more care than breeder dogs.

/shameless promotion of rescue dogs

:thumbsup: Every animal I had was rescued from somewhere.

 

[jjzelinski]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States

There's myriad things to consider when looking through this data that has been well stated throughout this thread, however what I find particularly startling is the the entire "circumstances" column.

 

[wheresmybacon]

"How many golden retrievers attack and kill people?"

Quite a few actually, but theyre considered a "good" dog so they dont hit the news anywhere near as much.

No. They don't hit the news because a golden retriever attack doesn't result in the victims death. It's like the difference between the damage caused by a collision from a toddler driving a battery-powered plastic truck and a trucker driving a big rig. One's going to leave a scratch and the other will probably kill you.

But go on you and leave your 2 year old alone in a room with an unleashed pit. Then go cry on the news and moan to the reporters about how it "never bit anyone before"...

 

[Capt Caveman]

No. They don't hit the news because a golden retriever attack doesn't result in the victims death. It's like the difference between the damage caused by a collision from a toddler driving a battery-powered plastic truck and a trucker driving a big rig. One's going to leave a scratch and the other will probably kill you.

But go on you and leave your 2 year old alone in a room with an unleashed pit. Then go cry on the news and moan to the reporters about how it "never bit anyone before"...

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=31614817&postcount=61

 

[brandonb]

I dunno why we are comparing apples and oranges.

The Golden Retriever has very little, if any, guarding instincts

On the other hand pit bull:

Highly protective of his owners and the owner's property, it will fight an enemy to the death.

source - dogbreeinfo.com

No wonder they act differently. Find some stats from two high protective dog breeds.

 

[soulcougher73]

Any dog can freak out and attack. It just so happens Pitts are very strong so when they do its usually painful if not deadly at times. Im sure Labs and Goldens bite and attack at times as well but they are probably easier to manage when they do.

Plus a lot of Pitts are trained that way. You could train a beagle to act like a Pitt if you wanted to.

So i dont blame the dogs. I blame the owners.

 

[Liet]

My close friend had a Rottweiler. I love dogs, and had never met a dog that I would kill myself until I met that dog.

The dog had something wrong with it's brain, despite being raised kindly by my friend since it was a puppy. Hell, I played with it all the time when it was a puppy... When it got bigger it started biting -everyone-.

Anyway, in all seriousness I told my friend that I would put it down myself if he liked, because it was a fucking liability. If it got loose it WOULD kill someone.

Anyway, that's my story - love dogs, but have seem some that are fucking wrong in the head.

 

[Electric Amish]

Pit-mix owner here.

Just like people. Some are good, some are bad.

 

[preslove]

This really isn't a very hard concept to grasp. NO ONE is saying that there aren't many cases of pit bull attacks around the country. They exist, the numbers are out there, it's real. What people ARE saying is that these attacks are caused by the owners who purposefully purchase the animals because they are large, muscular dogs that look "badass" and then treat the dog poorly and/or do not train it properly.

This is NOT the fault of the breed, as can be witnessed by the many pit bull owners who have raised their dog properly and have no problems.

The breed WAS BRED TO KILL. What is so hard to understand. My corgi was bred to herd goats & cattle and, more recently, to retrieve & do agility. Pitt Bulls come from a line of breeding for the purposes of killing Bears, people, and other dogs. It is the fucking breed.