Anandtech Super GT 300 Racing Series

[boshuter]

We are not going to run with tire wear disabled, and we are not going to require a pitstop.

If your driving style requires you to make a pitstop, that's not anyone elses fault. I use a wheel and with the length of the races we are running, I have no problem making my tires last. My lap times will fall off toward the end, but I can still run withing a couple of seconds of my best times. I practiced online for this race and my best times were in the high 1:41s with an average of very low 1:42's, after 20 laps I was still running high 1:44s to low 1:45s.

It's up to you to manage tire wear..... you can do it by running as hard as possible for a few laps and pitting, or taking care of your tires and not pitting.

 

[thilanliyan]

I can tell you I actually brake pretty early...at least earlier than some of the people I've raced against in this series. I also NEVER use full braking force. And let me tell you I was definitely struggling with understeer later on in the race...my car was definitely pushing through the corners.

Here's a link documenting tire DS3 controller tire advantage:
http://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=180266&page=2

Thanks for the link. It looks like it's a balance though. The guys using wheels had front tire issues while the guys using pads had rear tire issues? And it seems there's a bunch of factors at work including driving styles.

If I had a choice I would definitely use a wheel. I miss the fine control...I've had to change my driving style to suit the controller (ie. I have to drive much more smooth to limit oversteer which is very hard to correct with the DS3 and is how I crashed at Monza last race unfortunately). With the wheel a tiny flick of opposite lock and you're good to go. It also helps that these cars are only 300hp. The really powerful cars are very difficult to control at the limit with a DS3.

 

[boshuter]

I can tell you I actually brake pretty early...at least earlier than some of the people I've raced against in this series. I also NEVER use full braking force. And let me tell you I was definitely struggling with understeer later on in the race...my car was definitely pushing through the corners.



Thanks for the link. It looks like it's a balance though. The guys using wheels had front tire issues while the guys using pads had rear tire issues.

That is exactly what my friend and I discoverd this week while practicing, my fronts were wearing much faster than the rears and his was just the opposite. I helped mine a lot by changing the brake bias.

Tire wear management is a big part of racing, and by far the most important part of tire management is the way you drive, if you are braking late, sliding around corners, etc., then you are going to have to pit or lose all handling in the later laps. I don't see rewarding that kind of driving by requiring everyone else to make a pit stop if they have sense enough to conserve their tires.

 

[ultrap13]

That is exactly what my friend and I discoverd this week while practicing, my fronts were wearing much faster than the rears and his was just the opposite.

Boshutter, you're missing my point. There's a fundamental difference in how the game processes steering input when using the controller vs the steering wheel. This goes way beyond driving style. When I first heard about this BUG, I was in denial just like you appear to be. I didn't believe it so I tested it. When using the DFGT st.wheel, there's absolutely NO WAY you can make your FRONT TIRES last as long as they last with the controller. It's just technically not feasible. You can punish the front tires with the DS3 all day by moving the steering paddle lock to lock and the front tire wear will still be much better than any fine-steering magic you can pull on the DFGT. If you don't believe me, try it for yourself, same car, your own driving style, only difference being the controller.

Rear tires, on the other hand, do not have any dubious "FILTER" applied to it when using the DS3, therefore given the same driving style they will wear out exactly the same with DS3 as with DFGT. Any differences in rear tire wear can be attributed to driving style or the sensitivity of the controls. But in the GT300 class, the rears are kind of irrelevant due to low engine power anyways.

thilan, please don't take my rant the wrong way, I think you're doing an amazing job with the DS3, you're obviously doing the best you can with what you've got just like we all are. :thumbsup: Maybe if you had your wheel you'd be beating me on pace alone with the extra control as opposed to beating me on tirewear, who knows. I'm just trying to point out a software bug. And I'm kinda ticked off at Polyphony, had I known this I would've never bought the DFGT and just stayed on the DS3... Now I have to relearn to drive with the DS3 just to be competitive on front tire wear

Anyone else with an opinion one way or another, please chime in... I'm curious how many people use the DFGT steering wheel and how many use the DS3 controller?

PSN- Shrugging_Atlas

 

[boshuter]

No..... I don't think I'm misssing your point. I just do not think the difference is all that you are making it out to be. It's certainly not enough to do away with tire wear. No tire wear is as much of a crutch for bad driving habits as any of the other artificial aids, and we don't use them either.

The way I see it, you have a few choices; you can drive like your tires will wear out from hard braking and sliding around every corner, you can pit when you wear them out, or you can use a DS3 and gain the huge advantage you claim it gives.

If anyone else feels like they are being put at a disadvantage by guys with controllers.... please let me know. I for one will take my wheel over a controller, the advantages it gives far outway any percieved tire wear gain you may or may not get with a controller.

 

[thilanliyan]

thilan, please don't take my rant the wrong way, I think you're doing an amazing job with the DS3, you're obviously doing the best you can with what you've got just like we all are. :thumbsup: Maybe if you had your wheel you'd be beating me on pace alone with the extra control as opposed to beating me on tirewear, who knows. I'm just trying to point out a software bug. And I'm kinda ticked off at Polyphony, had I known this I would've never bought the DFGT and just stayed on the DS3... Now I have to relearn to drive with the DS3 just to be competitive on front tire wear

PSN- Shrugging_Atlas

Hey Atlas,
No offense taken.

I took a look at the replay and when you pitted your fronts were only slightly more worn than mine, and your rears were actually better. Boshuter actually had fronts that were even closer to mine I think. Now don't take any offense from what I'm about to say k?

I think you have more aggressive steering and braking inputs than me. You can see that clearly from just looking at the replay and also the G readout and brake position sensor for several of the corners (the car is squirming under braking too especially into the corner at the end of the straight). It's either that or you have a very twitchy car...even in a straight line you are making constant steering inputs. Do you have positive toe on your fronts? That can cause the wayward handling on straights. How much of a dead zone do you have on your steering wheel?

I'm not disagreeing about what you said about the tire wear using a DS3 but I think the difference isn't as great as you're implying. As I said your fronts were only slightly worse than mine when you pitted (I was expecting a drastic difference but there wasn't).

Oh and check your PM.

 

[coxmaster]

Hey guys, unfortunately I missed another week of racing (busy as hell with school )

As for the tire wear issue, the reason it happens is, as other said, the controller steering is regulated.

Think about it, there is so little input area with a joystick that if the front wheels went full lock when you moved the stick all the way it would be impossible to actually do anything. The joystick simply doesnt offer enough input to give you complete control over the steering.

Other games have given you the option to have full control when using the controller and it just flat out didn't work because every turn you would end up turning full lock.

 

[thilanliyan]

^Is there a steering position sensor in the replay like there is a brake/throttle position sensor? I couldn't find it if there is one.

 

[ultrap13]

I think you have more aggressive steering and braking inputs than me. You can see that clearly from just looking at the replay and also the G readout and brake position sensor for several of the corners (the car is squirming under braking too especially into the corner at the end of the straight). It's either that or you have a very twitchy car...even in a straight line you are making constant steering inputs. Do you have positive toe on your fronts? That can cause the wayward handling on straights. How much of a dead zone do you have on your steering wheel?

In the replay on my PS3 I am not seeing my car twitch at all. Yours looks twitchier than mine. Perhaps some lag at play here. I have negative toe on the fronts. Gentle corrections on the straight should have no effect on tire wear I would hope. I do brake hard and my brake balance is toward the front to avoid spinouts...this does have some effect on tirewear, yes. However, I've just done some testing with a DS3 and even with super aggressive driving style the fronts on my Celica do not wear out any faster than the rears.

I'm not disagreeing about what you said about the tire wear using a DS3 but I think the difference isn't as great as you're implying.

In a 3-10 lap sprint race it's irrelevant. In an 18 lap race it's the decisive factor.

As I said your fronts were only slightly worse than mine when you pitted (I was expecting a drastic difference but there wasn't).

My fronts were noticeably more worn. I'd say yours were 30% worn and mine 40%...had I not pitted then on the last lap yours would've been 60% worn and mine 80%. That would've given you a big edge. No way I could beat you to the finish in those conditions.

Oh and check your PM.

Will do.

 

[ultrap13]

QUESTION: How many laps are we going to run at Suzuka?

 

[boshuter]

QUESTION: How many laps are we going to run at Suzuka?

We will run 15 laps at Suzuka.

 

[ollie78]

I'll be here this upcoming Sunday! Family and work kick my butt last week through Saturday. Sunday came and went, and by the time 9pm rolled around did I realize it was Sunday night and not Saturday. Talk about disappointment on multiple levels...

 

[boshuter]

I'll be here this upcoming Sunday! Family and work kick my butt last week through Saturday. Sunday came and went, and by the time 9pm rolled around did I realize it was Sunday night and not Saturday. Talk about disappointment on multiple levels...

Good to see you are still around. We had a good race last week and a pretty challenging track coming up this Sunday, should be a lot of fun.

Hope to see you Sunday

 

[boshuter]

Drivers standings through week 4 are posted and new track map is up. The race tonight at Suzuka will be 15 laps.

There are very few places on this track to cut corners, and we will be setting the wet/edge of track traction loss to "real". I advise staying on the hard stuff, 2 wheels off may work, but it may not; it's up to you if you want to risk it :sneaky:

I hope to see everyone on track tonight..... this should be fun, this is a very technical track with a lot of places to make things interesting. :thumbsup:

 

[thilanliyan]

I hope to see everyone on track tonight..... this should be fun, this is a very technical track with a lot of places to make things interesting. :thumbsup:

And lots of places to screw up and go off track.

 

[ultrap13]

Looking forward to tonight's race. Just a friendly reminder - no aftermarket turbos and no engine upgrades are allowed. Illegallly modified cars are not that hard to detect. See rules on page 1.

Also in Suzuka it is inevitable that some cars are going go off track at least once. When you go off track you should only reenter when it's safe to do so.

1st corner should be interesting as always. Hope to see you all there!

 

[ollie78]

Double checking start time...8PM CST?

 

[boshuter]

Double checking start time...8PM CST?

Yep. The room should be open around 7pm. Just look for a room with Anandtech in the title. If you can't find it, check my profile in the "community" section in GT5 and click on the little circle by my lobby, it should take you to whatever room I'm in.

I'll probably be online shortly after 7.

 

[velillen]

i made a room since i desperatly need to practice. havent gotten to play at all since last race.

I assume its just Suzuka and not the Suzuka Weather change course?

I have the room set with normal race settings, 15 laps.
550 performance point limit
Grip Reduction on Wet Track/Track Edge - REAL
Light mechanical damage
no penalties since we are a pretty respectable group of drivers

Room number- 1472-6118-4216-8218-2555

Ill be coming and going but dont mind hosting if people join my room.

 

[thilanliyan]

^Is there actually mechanical damage? I thought we run with no damage?

 

[velillen]

I dunno i've left it on and had it off before. Doesnt seem like anyone really notices, ill just turn it off

 

[ultrap13]

It is safe to drop PP down to 541. I own all of the GT300 cars and none of them goes over PP 541 in stock trim with full downforce.

 

[ultrap13]

Nasty incident in the Hairpin curve on lap 2 or 3. davnici was in the lead, me in close 2nd, I got hit in the rear by one of the RX7s and in turn hit davinci, he spun, I managed to save it but lost enough to get out of drag of the 2 flying RX7s. Got 1 late in the race but thilan was just gone. Will have to watch replay to see what really happened.

 

[velillen]

It was all clean racing in the back if that makes you feel better All my accidents were most definitely self induced

 

[thilanliyan]

Good race everybody. Admittedly one of my more sloppy ones.

I tapped you in the back going into the hairpin Atlas sorry..I didn't ram you though.
And I accidentally slammed into another Celica, sorry I think it was supersnake?

What happened to you boshuter?

Velilen, have you tried a different car? Mid engined cars are a bit more difficult to control, and spin more easily.