AMD's response to the gtx670

[Olikan]

LOL...

the guy that wrote the letter seems that was on rage Oo

 

[Rvenger]

Rvenger, honestly is that 670GTX the "hot rod" they say it is. Since you've had a 7970 I value your opinion. Did you own a 680 GTX also?

I owned them all. Its on my doorstep so I don't know yet

I can honestly say that the GTX680 was smooth in just about everything. If I can't notice a difference with the 670 then I will be sure to report back.

 

[Grooveriding]

AMD should have 2 GB 1100Mhz versions for $439 and $379 respectively. Would maintain price levels and be a little cheaper to make.

Another thing they have is more robust design. Honestly if card was same overall speed for a few bucks cheaper I'd go for 7950 every time just for higher end PCB and exacting control over overclocking with voltage adjustments.


Oh and if they don't lower price of 7870 to $269 soon like before 660s come they will miss a huge opportiunity to cash in on middle market. That's one they have to lower immediately for sustainability.

Yes, per this thread http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2244259 that is what they need to do.

They clocked the 7970 and 7950 too low. Looking on the 680, it does not have much headroom over stock or additional performance to be gained. The 670 does with its more modest clocks.

Put out a 7970 @ 1.1Ghz and they have a card faster than a 680 more than it isn't and do whatever they have to do to the 7950 to put it in the same place vs the 670 and they are looking good again.

But do this without raising prices. At this point I think every 7970 out there could be run at at least 1.1ghz. The only thing that makes the 7970 look bad is the almost given 25% OC headroom they left off the table that the GTX 680 didn't. If every review out there was benching a 1.1ghz 7970, sentiments would be much different.

AMD needs to release a higher clocked 7970. Given the locked down and tweaker crippled nature of the 680, nvidia would have to respond with a completely new designed PCB for the 680 to maintain its benchmark prowess with higher voltages and clocks, or cut prices. For all we know the GK104 may be at the threshold of the voltage it can handle already. Something sure is up with all the effort put into keeping the card from being volt modded by end users. I think nvidia could much more easily cut prices on the 680 than AMD can on the 7970. The card is definitely cheap, the 670 looks to be laughably cheap in construction and components. I don't think AMD could keep slashing against nvidia price cuts. They need to beef up clocks on 7970/7950 and put the GK104 cards behind them in stock performance.

 

[exar333]

The comments at the bottom of OP's article are pretty funny. The press release is a joke, really. Multi-monitor and compute are very niche uses. The comments about availability are 100% valid though, but they do conveniently forget to mention the GTX 670. That's marketing though, they are supposed to spin.

I can respect AMD's wish to keep prices high, but it will definitely hurt their market share going forward.

For anyone who got the 7970 or 7950, they got a great card 4 months earlier than NV's offerings. If that was me, I don't think I would even contemplate a switch, unless I really wanted to go CF with a high OC and was right on the bubble for power usage. That's very unlikely, but the only case I could see.

For new buyers, AMD will need to bump-up the core frequencies of both 7970 and 7950 to keep them relevant [Edit: Assuming they keep prices constant]. $100 in crappy games is not really a solution. A $50-75 Steam credit or something like that would be a lot more useful IMHO. Folks would jump on that!

 

[Rvenger]

The comments at the bottom of OP's article are pretty funny. The press release is a joke, really. Multi-monitor and compute are very niche uses. The comments about availability are 100% valid though, but they do conveniently forget to mention the GTX 670. That's marketing though, they are supposed to spin.

I can respect AMD's wish to keep prices high, but it will definitely hurt their market share going forward.

For anyone who got the 7970 or 7950, they got a great card 4 months earlier than NV's offerings. If that was me, I don't think I would even contemplate a switch, unless I really wanted to go CF with a high OC and was right on the bubble for power usage. That's very unlikely, but the only case I could see.

For new buyers, AMD will need to bump-up the core frequencies of both 7970 and 7950 to keep them relevant [Edit: Assuming they keep prices constant]. $100 in crappy games is not really a solution. A $50-75 Steam credit or something like that would be a lot more useful IMHO. Folks would jump on that!

I think the article has a good point. When I sold my 7970 I asked the buyer what games he plays... he said none. He's using it for bitcoin mining. He purchased it from ebay and picked it up from me. The niche market is a little more common than you think .

 

[Elfear]

Anyone who even considers the 79xx series right now is simply blinded by loyalty.

Wow, that's a pretty all-encompassing statement. You really couldn't think of a single reason why someone might compare the two, let alone buy a 7900 series card, besides being a fanboy?

How about situations where the extra 1GB of ram would come in handy? How about the fact that a 7970 can be had for $88 cheaper than a 680 (@Newegg)? Or for those that like to overclock, the 7970 offers a noticeable performance advantage for only $50 more than the 670? How about for tweakers that like to mess with hardware? No software voltage adjustments is kinda boring in that regard.

Making statements with absolutes opens you up for scrutiny. The 600 series cards are great but that doesn't mean AMD cards suck.

 

[Zebo]

Yes, per this thread http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2244259 that is what they need to do.

They clocked the 7970 and 7950 too low. Looking on the 680, it does not have much headroom over stock or additional performance to be gained. The 670 does with its more modest clocks.

Put out a 7970 @ 1.1Ghz and they have a card faster than a 680 more than it isn't and do whatever they have to do to the 7950 to put it in the same place vs the 670 and they are looking good again.

But do this without raising prices. At this point I think every 7970 out there could be run at at least 1.1ghz. The only thing that makes the 7970 look bad is the almost given 25% OC headroom they left off the table that the GTX 680 didn't. If every review out there was benching a 1.1ghz 7970, sentiments would be much different.

AMD needs to release a higher clocked 7970. Given the locked down and tweaker crippled nature of the 680, nvidia would have to respond with a completely new designed PCB for the 680 to maintain its benchmark prowess with higher voltages and clocks, or cut prices. For all we know the GK104 may be at the threshold of the voltage it can handle already. Something sure is up with all the effort put into keeping the card from being volt modded by end users. I think nvidia could much more easily cut prices on the 680 than AMD can on the 7970. The card is definitely cheap, the 670 looks to be laughably cheap in construction and components. I don't think AMD could keep slashing against nvidia price cuts. They need to beef up clocks on 7970/7950 and put the GK104 cards behind them in stock performance.

Well it's easy to play poker when cards are dealt face up like nvidia had them dealt. Simply tweak card to outperform a bit and sell for same or less. Now it's AMD's turn since cards are face up - not like they don't have the tool unlike last gen.

I am more worried for them WRT big Kep if rumors are true.

And yeah those reference 670s a are a joke heck 680s are not exactly high end either...least until lightnigs or custom Asus' come.

 

[exar333]

I think the article has a good point. When I sold my 7970 I asked the buyer what games he plays... he said none. He's using it for bitcoin mining. He purchased it from ebay and picked it up from me. The niche market is a little more common than you think .

Its definitely there, but at current BC prices, its not like it was last year before the crash. Bang for the buck is still better with more affordable cards though, versus the higher-end 7970 and 7950. Lots of more serious folks are still rocking 5-6 boxes with 2-3 5850s in them. AMD has downplayed GPGPU for so long, I just find it ironic that they comment on it as a feature now.

 

[exar333]

Well it's easy to play poker when cards are dealt face up like nvidia had them dealt. Simply tweak card to outperform a bit and sell for same or less. Now it's AMD's turn since cards are face up - not like they don't have the tool unlike last gen.

I am more worried for them WRT big Kep if rumors are true.

And yeah those reference 670s a are a joke heck 680s are not exactly high end either...least until lightnigs or custom Asus' come.

To be honest, I think AMD expected NV to release their Kepler cards at higher price points and for them to not be as good at they were. Imagine if Big-K went along 'smoothly' and that was the GTX 680 released at $499? Would have been GTX 8800 all over again.

As it turned out, NV released slower cards, but very efficient that were competitive both in performance and price. Thats really a first for NV is QUITE a long time. Not many people expected Kepler to be efficient, fast, and relatively affordable.

 

[thilanliyan]

Anyone who even considers the 79xx series right now is simply blinded by loyalty.

Incorrect. Bitcoin mining. A niche, but it exists nonetheless. I take advantage of this, and have paid for one of my 6950s already. The only card I would consider right now is a 7970 (it would be a GTX670 if I only cared about gaming), as that has about the same mining rate as 2 6950s (which is what I have) once overclocked.

 

[Piano Man]

Wow, that's a pretty all-encompassing statement. You really couldn't think of a single reason why someone might compare the two, let alone buy a 7900 series card, besides being a fanboy?

How about situations where the extra 1GB of ram would come in handy? How about the fact that a 7970 can be had for $88 cheaper than a 680 (@Newegg)? Or for those that like to overclock, the 7970 offers a noticeable performance advantage for only $50 more than the 670? How about for tweakers that like to mess with hardware? No software voltage adjustments is kinda boring in that regard.

Making statements with absolutes opens you up for scrutiny. The 600 series cards are great but that doesn't mean AMD cards suck.

Sir, your calm demeanor and sound logic have no place in this thread

 

[guskline]

Wow, that's a pretty all-encompassing statement. You really couldn't think of a single reason why someone might compare the two, let alone buy a 7900 series card, besides being a fanboy?

How about situations where the extra 1GB of ram would come in handy? How about the fact that a 7970 can be had for $88 cheaper than a 680 (@Newegg)? Or for those that like to overclock, the 7970 offers a noticeable performance advantage for only $50 more than the 670? How about for tweakers that like to mess with hardware? No software voltage adjustments is kinda boring in that regard.

Making statements with absolutes opens you up for scrutiny. The 600 series cards are great but that doesn't mean AMD cards suck.

I couldn't agree more and I own a GTX 680 that in hindsight "I paid too much for". This whole idea that one card "sucks" because a comparably priced card might beat it by a few fps in a few games borders on silly.

 

[Don Karnage]

Sir, your calm demeanor and sound logic have no place in this thread

Exactly you big doo doo head

 

[Vesku]

It will take some time for AMD to respond to the situation of NVIDIA pressing TSMC to give them a larger portion of 28nm wafer starts. Qualcomm publicly switched over to Global Foundries over the mess.

I can out wait the GPU makers though, first one to provide a good gaming+compute 28nm card at $200 will get my purchase. The eventual 660 launch will hopefully finally force the 7850 to that price point.

 

[blastingcap]

It will take some time for AMD to respond to the situation of NVIDIA pressing TSMC to give them a larger portion of 28nm wafer starts. Qualcomm publicly switched over to Global Foundries over the mess.

I can out wait the GPU makers though, first one to provide a good gaming+compute 28nm card at $200 will get my purchase. The eventual 660 launch will hopefully finally force the 7850 to that price point.

If Qualcomm and others leave, good. More TSMC 28nm for GPUs.

 

[Leyawiin]

Love that clip.

Kirk rocks. But yeah, the HD 7870, 7950 and 7970 are poor choices at their current price points. For that matter so is the GTX 680, but its never in stock anyway so who cares.

 

[Vesku]

If Qualcomm and others leave, good. More TSMC 28nm for GPUs.

Agreed.

 

[KompuKare]

If Qualcomm and others leave, good. More TSMC 28nm for GPUs.

Hm, guess. But while nobody can predict the future, consider this: Qualcomm is a fairly conservative company with lots of growth potential. Nvidia makes a fair bit of money and has products which sell well but while the management is hardly conservative, going around in public complaining and blaming everyone for anything which goes wrong is not very mature either.

I'm sure TSMC will any revenue but I'm sure some of NVs partners would prefer not to be blamed for everything all the time.

 

[RussianSensation]

They need to beef up clocks on 7970/7950 and put the GK104 cards behind them in stock performance.

The invasion has begun.

These 2 popped up on the Egg today:

$410 Sapphire HD7950 950mhz (19% faster than original model)

$490 Diamond HD7970 Reference 1025mhz (~11% faster than original version).

However, there may be GTX670 cards with elevated TDP (175, 195W) and Boost in excess of 1.2ghz as well.

I haven't seen such a close fight at the top in a long time, probably not since 6800GT/6800U vs. X800XT/X850XT.

I think reviewers should follow-up and see how these new cards fare. A 950mhz 7950 would be more or less within 3-4% of the 7970 based on Hexus's analysis.

Still, even if HD7950 gets raised to 950mhz, for just $0-30 more it would have to face Gigabyte Windforce 3X, Asus Direct CUII and Galaxy GTX670 OC. Even if HD7950 $399 950mhz = reference HD7970, it's still going to lose overall to an after market 670 OC out of the box.

That Galaxy card is $440.

That means AMD will need to deliver a 1050mhz After market/quiet HD7970 for $440-450 or so. Introducing 1025mhz reference designed cards for $490 is still not good enough because at best it will tie after market 670s and still cost $50-70 more and one would have to put up with a louder fan.

 

[tviceman]

AMD should have 2 GB 1100Mhz versions for $439 and $379 respectively. Would maintain price levels and be a little cheaper to make.

First of all, they can't do 2gb with a 384-bit bus. It's gotta be either 1.5gb or 3gb. Second, my brain was shut off when I started this thread. I entirely forgot they are going to re-release the hd7970 (and probably hd7950) with higher speeds. I don't think it will be at 1100mhz, but it will definitely be at least 1000mhz.

 

[tviceman]

The invasion has begun.

These 2 popped up on the Egg today:

$410 Sapphire HD7950 950mhz (19% faster than original model)

$490 Diamond HD7970 Reference 1025mhz (~11% faster than original version).

That hd7950 is ridiculously overpriced. But the hd7970 diamond's core speed is exactly what I anticipate AMD's "new" reference hd7970's to be at. 1025mhz will pull it completely dead even with a gtx680 at 1080p and 1600p, while taking a small lead at multi-monitor resolutions. If and when non-locked gtx680's come out, then that will justify the $500 gtx680 price tag. Until then, though, anyone looking to upgrade at the $375-500 price range would be stupid to buy anything but a gtx670.

 

[mple]

That means AMD will need to deliver a 1050mhz After market/quiet HD7970 for $440-450 or so. Introducing 1025mhz reference designed cards for $490 is still not good enough because at best it will tie after market 670s and still cost $50-70 more and one would have to put up with a louder fan.

The Sapphire 7970 OC model can be had for $450 on Newegg. I suspect that to be the new price point. Sapphire can run some rebate promotions in the near future to take that price down some more.

 

[Don Karnage]

The Sapphire 7970 OC model can be had for $450 on Newegg. I suspect that to be the new price point. Sapphire can run some rebate promotions in the near future to take that price down some more.

Still overpriced.

 

[3DVagabond]

Id still buy a 680. My Asus 670s are going on water and being hard modded for more voltage.

I can understand the sentiment for the 670. Lot's of FPS for $399. I'd go with one of the models that are using the 680 PCB, though. The 680 is actually a worse value than the 7970. Unless you just want to run them stock. Which is not anyone on these boards.

 

[Zanovar]

Amds response to nvidia and the gtx 670

Anyone who even considers the 79xx series right now is simply blinded by loyalty.

hahaha