Discussion AMD Cezanne/Zen 3 APU Speculation and Discussion

[dr1337]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1292844896374718470

Fresh leak out today, not much is known but at least 8cu's is confirmed. Probably an engineering sample, core count is unknown and clocks may not be final.

This is very interesting to me because cezanne is seemingly 8cu only, and it seems unlikely to me that AMD could squeeze any more performance out of vega. A cpu only upgrade of renoir may be lackluster compared to tigerlake's quite large GPU.

What do you guys think? Will zen 3 be a large enough improvement in APU form? Will it have full cache? Are there more than 8cus? Has AMD truly evolved vega yet again or is it more like rdna?

 

[Asterox]

tomshardware just posted a leak on desktop Cezanne specs.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/hp-reveals-amd-ryzen-5000-zen-3-apu-specifications

Unfortunately there is nothing on the IGP.

200mhz higher CPU frequency, stock and Singlethread frequency for all Cezanne APU models.Compared to my R5 Pro 4650G, with Zen 3 CPU we can expect 4.4-4.5ghz all core boost for R5 5600G.

Identical Bios settings Core Performanse Boost/Auto, with my R5 4650G i have up to 4.3ghz all core boost.When the CPU is a little busier, all core boost it is usually somewhere in between 4.2-4.3ghz.

 

[Mopetar]

This is supported by the fact the PRO versions of Renoir are leaking into retail channels in numbers that i had never seen before. The timing is all wrong too, that generally happens when the product is being or is phased out, for example, there is tons of OEM PRO 2200G / 2400G around.

Some of that may have to do with the GPU market being what it is right now. Even low-end cards are prohibitively expensive and anything that can mine is being snatched up before regular consumers even realize it was there. That actually makes an APU a rather attractive option right now and I suspect that people are looking to cash-in on the opportunity.

 

[jpiniero]

i dont fully belive the story of Renoir never going to retail because AMD didnt cared or availity,

The comparable CPU product is faster at dGPU gaming and uses less 7 nm silicon. That's why AMD didn't officially do DIY Renoir and presumably won't do Cezanne either.

 

[Asterox]

Hm, Bios has PCIE Gen4 option compared to Renoir APU with PCIE Gen3 only.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1381153674714435585

https://translate.google.com/transl...m/thread-2316656-1-1.html&prev=search&pto=aue

 

[jpiniero]

AMD quietly launched Cezanne desktop today. Confirmed that it is OEM only.

AMD launches Ryzen 5000G "Cezanne" desktop CPUs with integrated graphics - VideoCardz.com

AMD Ryzen 5000G series is finally here AMD quietly introduced its highly anticipated Ryzen 5000G series. AMD will not be launching Ryzen 5000G series for the DIY market anytime soon. The company announced that initially only pre-built systems will be equipped with Ryzen 5000G series. History...

videocardz.com

 

[Asterox]

AMD quietly launched Cezanne desktop today. Confirmed that it is OEM only.

AMD launches Ryzen 5000G "Cezanne" desktop CPUs with integrated graphics - VideoCardz.com

AMD Ryzen 5000G series is finally here AMD quietly introduced its highly anticipated Ryzen 5000G series. AMD will not be launching Ryzen 5000G series for the DIY market anytime soon. The company announced that initially only pre-built systems will be equipped with Ryzen 5000G series. History...

videocardz.com

As expected, but again no problem.

New Bios for B450/X470/A520/B550 motherboards with suport for Cezanne APU, again it will come sooner or later.

Sooner or later, you will be able to buy smuggled Cezanne Desktop APU in classic retail.

 

[Hitman928]

AMD quietly launched Cezanne desktop today. Confirmed that it is OEM only.

AMD launches Ryzen 5000G "Cezanne" desktop CPUs with integrated graphics - VideoCardz.com

AMD Ryzen 5000G series is finally here AMD quietly introduced its highly anticipated Ryzen 5000G series. AMD will not be launching Ryzen 5000G series for the DIY market anytime soon. The company announced that initially only pre-built systems will be equipped with Ryzen 5000G series. History...

videocardz.com

According to Anandtech, AMD said they will have a retail release later this year:

AMD has plans to enable a full retail offering for these components, but this will happen later in the year.

AMD Ryzen 5000G APUs: OEM Only For Now, Full Release Later This Year

www.anandtech.com

 

[jpiniero]

According to Anandtech, AMD said they will have a retail release later this year:

Strange, unless Warhol is indeed AM5 only and board makers wanted something available on AM4 to be able to clean out the remaining stock at that point.

 

[uzzi38]

Strange, unless Warhol is indeed AM5 only and board makers wanted something available on AM4 to be able to clean out the remaining stock at that point.

Not really.

Not enough stock to launch for commercial PCs, laptops and DIY all at the same time. DIY was always going to get the chop.

 

[jpiniero]

Not really.

Not enough stock to launch for commercial PCs, laptops and DIY all at the same time. DIY was always going to get the chop.

Stock is definitely the issue. But the amount of chips that fail the mobile specs can't be that high and you would think that desktop OEMs would be able to fill that gap. One thing to note is that there is no quad core Cezanne mobile part as of now.

 

[ultimatebob]

Stock is definitely the issue. But the amount of chips that fail the mobile specs can't be that high and you would think that desktop OEMs would be able to fill that gap. One thing to note is that there is no quad core Cezanne mobile part as of now.

Sadly, if the GPU is even remotely strong on these APU's, the crypto miners would start hording them if they were available in retail channels.

 

[Shivansps]

Wait, what? they downgraded the IGP freq on the 5700G? what the hell is going on here.

Speeds and CU are the same across the board for the 5300G and 5600G, that means they will perform as pathetic as Renoir does, they will have a really hard time trying to push that 5300G for more than $120.

TL;DR i dont think they will come to retail with that kind of IGP perf, AMD wants to charge a ultra premium for these, and the IGP is just not up to the task.

 

[uzzi38]

Wait, what? they downgraded the IGP freq on the 5700G? what the hell is going on here.

Speeds and CU are the same across the board for the 5300G and 5600G, that means they will perform as pathetic as Renoir does, they will have a really hard time trying to push that 5300G for more than $120.

TL;DR i dont think they will come to retail with that kind of IGP perf, AMD wants to charge a ultra premium for these, and the IGP is just not up to the task.

Comment on that from Robert (that doesn't make sense but hey, at least it's something)

 

[LightningZ71]

That answer leads me to believe that, for most use cases, it'll effectively be a wash, or at least unnoticeable in actual use in OEM applications. (Referring to the 100mhz drop in advertised max iGPU boost). Trying to keep it all in the 65 watt envelope with 8 cores that are bigger than Zen2, and with double the L3, U think that it's a worthwhile trade-off, especially since it'll probably be memory bandwidth limited to a large degree there anyway.

For overclockers, it just won't matter. We routinely ignore power limits and use above spec coolers. I'm interested in if it will clock even higher than Renoir and if the IMC is even more capable than Renoir's.

I do hope that they keep the quad core Renoir AM4 APU in production enough for a healthy enough number of them to sneak into the DIY market. As a quad core, as long as they keep them all on the same CCX, it should still perform well enough to be more than enough for most casual users.

 

[Asterox]

That answer leads me to believe that, for most use cases, it'll effectively be a wash, or at least unnoticeable in actual use in OEM applications. (Referring to the 100mhz drop in advertised max iGPU boost). Trying to keep it all in the 65 watt envelope with 8 cores that are bigger than Zen2, and with double the L3, U think that it's a worthwhile trade-off, especially since it'll probably be memory bandwidth limited to a large degree there anyway.

For overclockers, it just won't matter. We routinely ignore power limits and use above spec coolers. I'm interested in if it will clock even higher than Renoir and if the IMC is even more capable than Renoir's.

I do hope that they keep the quad core Renoir AM4 APU in production enough for a healthy enough number of them to sneak into the DIY market. As a quad core, as long as they keep them all on the same CCX, it should still perform well enough to be more than enough for most casual users.

It is hard to belive, or it very absurdly for someone to complain about 100mhz lower iGPU frequencie on APU.Hey, it is only 65W TDP APU with 2000mhz GPU.

If we take into account all details, it is expected or 100mhz more or less iGPU frequencie is completely irrelevant.I hope someone doesn’t expect, that 16mb(vs Renoir APU 8mb) L3 Cache+higher CPU frequencie uses the energy of spirits.

 

[Thibsie]

It is hard to belive, or it very absurdly for someone to complain about 100mhz lower iGPU frequencie on APU.Hey, it is only 65W TDP APU with 2000mhz GPU.

If we take into account all details, it is expected or 100mhz more or less iGPU frequencie is completely irrelevant.I hope someone doesn’t expect, that 16mb(vs Renoir APU 8mb) L3 Cache+higher CPU frequencie uses the energy of spirits.

Well, were you really suprised by the complaint ?

 

[Shivansps]

Comment on that from Robert (that doesn't make sense but hey, at least it's something)

That makes zero sense, the turbo should be smart enoght to deal with that.

 

[Mopetar]

It might be a case of what the APU can pull off when both graphics and CPU are both being heavily utilized. The trade off for better CPU boost is probably worth it for most customers.

There's also a possibility that AMD isn't being completely honest and it really comes down to binning. If for whatever reason some changes have made it harder for most parts to hit the designated speed for that bin, it may be necessary to relax it to get the mix of parts that they want.

It's really a non-issue if the parts can be configured manually to boost higher. I haven't used any of AMD's APUs before, but they don't lock their CPUs down all that much so it may just be a case of anyone who really cares being able to tweak the settings. Of course if memory bandwidth limits the GPU then there may not be much gain (and another reason for them lowering clocks) from this.

 

[coercitiv]

There's also a possibility that AMD isn't being completely honest and it really comes down to binning.

I would also seriously consider this - best dies go into mobile, something's gotta' give with the desktop bins.

 

[John Carmack]

Wait, what? they downgraded the IGP freq on the 5700G? what the hell is going on here.

Speeds and CU are the same across the board for the 5300G and 5600G, that means they will perform as pathetic as Renoir does, they will have a really hard time trying to push that 5300G for more than $120.

TL;DR i dont think they will come to retail with that kind of IGP perf, AMD wants to charge a ultra premium for these, and the IGP is just not up to the task.

Is it that time of year again? You can always tell new APU's are around the corner when the complaining starts. Is this round 3 or 4? It's enough for DDR4-3200 and that's really the only consideration.

 

[IntelUser2000]

Doesn't AMD iGPUs use the CPU L3 cache?

Sadly, if the GPU is even remotely strong on these APU's, the crypto miners would start hording them if they were available in retail channels.

You don't have to worry about that. 1MH/s on Ethereum requires 8GB/s of bandwidth, and VRAM size approaching 4.5GB(or won't start at all).

I believe Vega iGPUs were tested when the VRAM requirements were smaller. They were getting 4-5MH/s.

 

[uzzi38]

Doesn't AMD iGPUs use the CPU L3 cache?

Nope. Intel's iGPUs can, but not AMD's.

 

[Shivansps]

Is it that time of year again? You can always tell new APU's are around the corner when the complaining starts. Is this round 3 or 4? It's enough for DDR4-3200 and that's really the only consideration.

Even with intel coming up with a faster IGP on DDR4, the 4350G being awfull even compared to the 3200G, the dGPU market being a HUGE mess and rumors pointing out at the posibility of 12 RDNA2 on RMB(how quickly they forgot about giving priority to CPU cores eh?) there are people that still want to argue with me on this, amazing.
Looks like no one would like an APU with RX560 level gpu today.

And yeah, decreasing frecuency is weird, the 5700U can do 4.3Ghz and 1.9Ghz on 25W max cTDP, but the 5700G cant do 4.6Ghz and 2.1Ghz at 65W... come on who belives that? we all know that the turbo system is able to deal with that.
Its binning, simple as that.

 

[ultimatebob]

Doesn't AMD iGPUs use the CPU L3 cache?
You don't have to worry about that. 1MH/s on Ethereum requires 8GB/s of bandwidth, and VRAM size approaching 4.5GB(or won't start at all).

I believe Vega iGPUs were tested when the VRAM requirements were smaller. They were getting 4-5MH/s.

How much system memory can you allocate as VRAM on one of these APU's? Do they limit it to 4 GB?

 

[Shivansps]

How much system memory can you allocate as VRAM on one of these APU's? Do they limit it to 4 GB?

Depends on the motherboard and bios version Asus allows up to 8GB, i actually tested mining on a stock 2400G with 2666 rams, it was giving 2.5MH/s, i think 4-5MH/s is possible (what would be about 40% of a RX560), but it will not be very efficient. But rest easy, most of the mining software does not support mining on APUs, and i dont think mining on a APU on Linux even works. This may change with DDR5 APUs, they may start using APUs in the mining rigs,