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Discussion AMD Cezanne/Zen 3 APU Speculation and Discussion

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LightningZ71

Senior member
Mar 10, 2017
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Even with intel coming up with a faster IGP on DDR4, the 4350G being awfull even compared to the 3200G, the dGPU market being a HUGE mess and rumors pointing out at the posibility of 12 RDNA2 on RMB(how quickly they forgot about giving priority to CPU cores eh?) there are people that still want to argue with me on this, amazing.
Looks like no one would like an APU with RX560 level gpu today.

And yeah, decreasing frecuency is weird, the 5700U can do 4.3Ghz and 1.9Ghz on 25W max cTDP, but the 5700G cant do 4.6Ghz and 2.1Ghz at 65W... come on who belives that? we all know that the turbo system is able to deal with that.
Its binning, simple as that.
I won't dispute the binning angle. Look at the desktop competition. What is Intel pushing in that space that will beat a 2000Mhz iGPU /8cu vega implementation? 32eu Xe isn't going to do it. For competitive reasons, they likely binned to get as many good clocking CPU cores to face off against Intel's 65 watt processors. In a 35watt setup, it probably seriously outperforms the competing T class processors as well.

For the DIY crowd, we'll probably adjust the power and thermals limits and let it run wild.
 
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Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
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I won't dispute the binning angle. Look at the desktop competition. What is Intel pushing in that space that will beat a 2000Mhz iGPU /8cu vega implementation? 32eu Xe isn't going to do it. For competitive reasons, they likely binned to get as many good clocking CPU cores to face off against Intel's 65 watt processors. In a 35watt setup, it probably seriously outperforms the competing T class processors as well.

For the DIY crowd, we'll probably adjust the power and thermals limits and let it run wild.
It does not really matters at this point, specially because they may never get to the DIY. I just think it was weird, and AMD explanation didnt help.
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
7,412
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Depends on the motherboard and bios version Asus allows up to 8GB, i actually tested mining on a stock 2400G with 2666 rams, it was giving 2.5MH/s, i think 4-5MH/s is possible
Yea, 2.5MH/s is more in line now I think about it which is way below the theoretical bandwidth. And that's the APU using 40-50W, which is absolutely horrible for efficiency.

Also to get the optimal figures in GPU mining you have to really tighten up the memory timings, and for power efficiency lower the voltage. That'll seriously affect system stability.

Or, you can just get yourself a RX 550 which will get over 10MH/s easy for the same 50W. Realistically you'll get something like a RX 5700/RTX 3060 because they'll get 50-60MH/s for 130W.

Nope. Intel's iGPUs can, but not AMD's.
Ok. LLC cache sharing on Intel iGPU is responsible for boosting graphics performance by 10-20%. So not a huge amount but decent.
 
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LightningZ71

Senior member
Mar 10, 2017
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For now, at best, AMD would realize improved effective bandwidth for the iGPU from the larger L3 of Cezanne by the simple fact that the larger and unified L3 as compared to earlier APUs would result in the CPU cores accessing main memory less often because there will be more cache hits. The iGPU gets a bigger slice of the pie, and it's transfers will be interrupted less often.
 
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Panino Manino

Senior member
Jan 28, 2017
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This got me thinking, if Zen 3 is so efficient, then why notebooks with it performs so bad on battery?

It's really that hard for notebook makers and windows to not sabotage the performance?
 
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IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
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This got me thinking, if Zen 3 is so efficient, then why notebooks with it performs so bad on battery?
I just skimmed through the results. What about you?

Because Zen cores are still more efficient. They just chose to use even less power under battery. What Intel chips are doing is not throttling clocks under battery compared to AC.

It's like the big dGPU laptops having 1/3rd the performance when on battery. Are you really going to render in Cinema4D and use Lightroom under battery, or are you going to plug it into an AC outlet?

Really the one downside I see with the Zen laptops is that it also throttles under bursty browser workloads, and that's pretty much a no no.

Battery life wise, the Zen 2/3 laptops do better as well. The "throttling" you see under battery also means it's less load on the battery and will heat up less.
 

Panino Manino

Senior member
Jan 28, 2017
407
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I just skimmed through the results. What about you?

Because Zen cores are still more efficient. They just chose to use even less power under battery. What Intel chips are doing is not throttling clocks under battery compared to AC.

It's like the big dGPU laptops having 1/3rd the performance when on battery. Are you really going to render in Cinema4D and use Lightroom under battery, or are you going to plug it into an AC outlet?

Really the one downside I see with the Zen laptops is that it also throttles under bursty browser workloads, and that's pretty much a no no.

Battery life wise, the Zen 2/3 laptops do better as well. The "throttling" you see under battery also means it's less load on the battery and will heat up less.
If Zen 3 is so much more efficient than why the need to throttle so much? Couldn't the clocks be higher and still not hurt battery life?
To me they're doing wrong, they're wasting the chips.
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
7,412
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If Zen 3 is so much more efficient than why the need to throttle so much? Couldn't the clocks be higher and still not hurt battery life?
To me they're doing wrong, they're wasting the chips.
I don't think you understand how battery life works.

No one really cares about battery life when under heavy load, they'd just connect to an AC outlet.

When people talk "battery life" it's explicitely under bursty workloads like web browsing, word processing, and video playback.
 
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itsmydamnation

Platinum Member
Feb 6, 2011
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This got me thinking, if Zen 3 is so efficient, then why notebooks with it performs so bad on battery?

It's really that hard for notebook makers and windows to not sabotage the performance?
Why do you keep bring this up when it was explained to you?

for example my Lenovo when i set it to the same power settings ( which is like 2 clicks ) performs the same on both AC and DC for my 4700U. When i can buy a 5800U from lenovo in australia im sure it will be exactly the same.
 

mikk

Diamond Member
May 15, 2012
3,120
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Cezanne is a big fail. 4 months after the launch it isn't even low volume. Almost no Cezanne-U and only a few high robbery priced Cezanne-H are really available. Icelake-U was big volume after 4 months compared to this fail. No wonder the OEMs are impatiently waiting for Tigerlake-H, they can't make money with Cezanne from nothing. All the comparisons with Cezanne-H are more theoretical, Tigerlake-H is the real deal for the higher performance notebook market.
 

uzzi38

Golden Member
Oct 16, 2019
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Cezanne is a big fail. 4 months after the launch it isn't even low volume. Almost no Cezanne-U and only a few high robbery priced Cezanne-H are really available. Icelake-U was big volume after 4 months compared to this fail. No wonder the OEMs are impatiently waiting for Tigerlake-H, they can't make money with Cezanne from nothing. All the comparisons with Cezanne-H are more theoretical, Tigerlake-H is the real deal for the higher performance notebook market.
You have no clue what OEMs are talking about right now. Stop talking.

Sorry, but your BS is fully in FUD levels now as you're totally clueless.
 
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eek2121

Senior member
Aug 2, 2005
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Cezanne is a big fail. 4 months after the launch it isn't even low volume. Almost no Cezanne-U and only a few high robbery priced Cezanne-H are really available. Icelake-U was big volume after 4 months compared to this fail. No wonder the OEMs are impatiently waiting for Tigerlake-H, they can't make money with Cezanne from nothing. All the comparisons with Cezanne-H are more theoretical, Tigerlake-H is the real deal for the higher performance notebook market.
Cezanne is widely available. I don't know why you would post this nonsense. ASUS, Lenovo, and Razer all have laptop offerings.
 

jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
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Cezanne is widely available. I don't know why you would post this nonsense. ASUS, Lenovo, and Razer all have laptop offerings.
I wouldn't say widely available in the US. It does seem like OEMs are mostly only interested in using Cezanne in gaming laptops.
 

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