Discussion AMD Cezanne/Zen 3 APU Speculation and Discussion

Page 15 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Toggle sidebar Toggle sidebar
D

dr1337

Senior member
May 25, 2020
333
565
106
https://twitter.com/x/status/1292844896374718470
Fresh leak out today, not much is known but at least 8cu's is confirmed. Probably an engineering sample, core count is unknown and clocks may not be final.

This is very interesting to me because cezanne is seemingly 8cu only, and it seems unlikely to me that AMD could squeeze any more performance out of vega. A cpu only upgrade of renoir may be lackluster compared to tigerlake's quite large GPU.

What do you guys think? Will zen 3 be a large enough improvement in APU form? Will it have full cache? Are there more than 8cus? Has AMD truly evolved vega yet again or is it more like rdna?
 
Sort by date Sort by votes
L

LightningZ71

Golden Member
Mar 10, 2017
1,627
1,898
136
Shivansps said:
Even with intel coming up with a faster IGP on DDR4, the 4350G being awfull even compared to the 3200G, the dGPU market being a HUGE mess and rumors pointing out at the posibility of 12 RDNA2 on RMB(how quickly they forgot about giving priority to CPU cores eh?) there are people that still want to argue with me on this, amazing.
Looks like no one would like an APU with RX560 level gpu today.

And yeah, decreasing frecuency is weird, the 5700U can do 4.3Ghz and 1.9Ghz on 25W max cTDP, but the 5700G cant do 4.6Ghz and 2.1Ghz at 65W... come on who belives that? we all know that the turbo system is able to deal with that.
Its binning, simple as that.
Click to expand...

I won't dispute the binning angle. Look at the desktop competition. What is Intel pushing in that space that will beat a 2000Mhz iGPU /8cu vega implementation? 32eu Xe isn't going to do it. For competitive reasons, they likely binned to get as many good clocking CPU cores to face off against Intel's 65 watt processors. In a 35watt setup, it probably seriously outperforms the competing T class processors as well.

For the DIY crowd, we'll probably adjust the power and thermals limits and let it run wild.
 
  • Like
Reactions: scineram and Tlh97
Upvote 0 Downvote
S

Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
3,855
1,518
136
LightningZ71 said:
I won't dispute the binning angle. Look at the desktop competition. What is Intel pushing in that space that will beat a 2000Mhz iGPU /8cu vega implementation? 32eu Xe isn't going to do it. For competitive reasons, they likely binned to get as many good clocking CPU cores to face off against Intel's 65 watt processors. In a 35watt setup, it probably seriously outperforms the competing T class processors as well.

For the DIY crowd, we'll probably adjust the power and thermals limits and let it run wild.
Click to expand...

It does not really matters at this point, specially because they may never get to the DIY. I just think it was weird, and AMD explanation didnt help.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
IntelUser2000

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
8,686
3,785
136
Shivansps said:
Depends on the motherboard and bios version Asus allows up to 8GB, i actually tested mining on a stock 2400G with 2666 rams, it was giving 2.5MH/s, i think 4-5MH/s is possible
Click to expand...

Yea, 2.5MH/s is more in line now I think about it which is way below the theoretical bandwidth. And that's the APU using 40-50W, which is absolutely horrible for efficiency.

Also to get the optimal figures in GPU mining you have to really tighten up the memory timings, and for power efficiency lower the voltage. That'll seriously affect system stability.

Or, you can just get yourself a RX 550 which will get over 10MH/s easy for the same 50W. Realistically you'll get something like a RX 5700/RTX 3060 because they'll get 50-60MH/s for 130W.

uzzi38 said:
Nope. Intel's iGPUs can, but not AMD's.
Click to expand...

Ok. LLC cache sharing on Intel iGPU is responsible for boosting graphics performance by 10-20%. So not a huge amount but decent.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Tlh97
Upvote 0 Downvote
L

LightningZ71

Golden Member
Mar 10, 2017
1,627
1,898
136
For now, at best, AMD would realize improved effective bandwidth for the iGPU from the larger L3 of Cezanne by the simple fact that the larger and unified L3 as compared to earlier APUs would result in the CPU cores accessing main memory less often because there will be more cache hits. The iGPU gets a bigger slice of the pie, and it's transfers will be interrupted less often.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tlh97
Upvote 0 Downvote
Panino Manino

Panino Manino

Senior member
Jan 28, 2017
821
1,022
136
1620758640303-png.44228


This got me thinking, if Zen 3 is so efficient, then why notebooks with it performs so bad on battery?
www.pcworld.com

Tested: Is Ryzen 5000 battery performance really that bad?

Is Ryzen 5000 mobile performance bad on battery? We investigate, comparing it to the Intel competition. We learn why it takes a hit, and why it might not be a big deal.
www.pcworld.com www.pcworld.com

It's really that hard for notebook makers and windows to not sabotage the performance?
 
  • Like
Reactions: mikk
Upvote 0 Downvote
IntelUser2000

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
8,686
3,785
136
Panino Manino said:
This got me thinking, if Zen 3 is so efficient, then why notebooks with it performs so bad on battery?
Click to expand...

I just skimmed through the results. What about you?

Because Zen cores are still more efficient. They just chose to use even less power under battery. What Intel chips are doing is not throttling clocks under battery compared to AC.

It's like the big dGPU laptops having 1/3rd the performance when on battery. Are you really going to render in Cinema4D and use Lightroom under battery, or are you going to plug it into an AC outlet?

Really the one downside I see with the Zen laptops is that it also throttles under bursty browser workloads, and that's pretty much a no no.

Battery life wise, the Zen 2/3 laptops do better as well. The "throttling" you see under battery also means it's less load on the battery and will heat up less.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tlh97, Thibsie, uzzi38 and 1 other person
Upvote 0 Downvote
Panino Manino

Panino Manino

Senior member
Jan 28, 2017
821
1,022
136
IntelUser2000 said:
I just skimmed through the results. What about you?

Because Zen cores are still more efficient. They just chose to use even less power under battery. What Intel chips are doing is not throttling clocks under battery compared to AC.

It's like the big dGPU laptops having 1/3rd the performance when on battery. Are you really going to render in Cinema4D and use Lightroom under battery, or are you going to plug it into an AC outlet?

Really the one downside I see with the Zen laptops is that it also throttles under bursty browser workloads, and that's pretty much a no no.

Battery life wise, the Zen 2/3 laptops do better as well. The "throttling" you see under battery also means it's less load on the battery and will heat up less.
Click to expand...

If Zen 3 is so much more efficient than why the need to throttle so much? Couldn't the clocks be higher and still not hurt battery life?
To me they're doing wrong, they're wasting the chips.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
IntelUser2000

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
8,686
3,785
136
Panino Manino said:
If Zen 3 is so much more efficient than why the need to throttle so much? Couldn't the clocks be higher and still not hurt battery life?
To me they're doing wrong, they're wasting the chips.
Click to expand...

I don't think you understand how battery life works.

No one really cares about battery life when under heavy load, they'd just connect to an AC outlet.

When people talk "battery life" it's explicitely under bursty workloads like web browsing, word processing, and video playback.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tlh97
Upvote 0 Downvote
I

itsmydamnation

Platinum Member
Feb 6, 2011
2,769
3,144
136
Panino Manino said:
1620758640303-png.44228


This got me thinking, if Zen 3 is so efficient, then why notebooks with it performs so bad on battery?
www.pcworld.com

Tested: Is Ryzen 5000 battery performance really that bad?

Is Ryzen 5000 mobile performance bad on battery? We investigate, comparing it to the Intel competition. We learn why it takes a hit, and why it might not be a big deal.
www.pcworld.com www.pcworld.com

It's really that hard for notebook makers and windows to not sabotage the performance?
Click to expand...
Why do you keep bring this up when it was explained to you?

for example my Lenovo when i set it to the same power settings ( which is like 2 clicks ) performs the same on both AC and DC for my 4700U. When i can buy a 5800U from lenovo in australia im sure it will be exactly the same.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
M

mikk

Diamond Member
May 15, 2012
4,140
2,154
136
Cezanne is a big fail. 4 months after the launch it isn't even low volume. Almost no Cezanne-U and only a few high robbery priced Cezanne-H are really available. Icelake-U was big volume after 4 months compared to this fail. No wonder the OEMs are impatiently waiting for Tigerlake-H, they can't make money with Cezanne from nothing. All the comparisons with Cezanne-H are more theoretical, Tigerlake-H is the real deal for the higher performance notebook market.
 
Upvote -2 Downvote
uzzi38

uzzi38

Platinum Member
Oct 16, 2019
2,629
5,938
146
mikk said:
Cezanne is a big fail. 4 months after the launch it isn't even low volume. Almost no Cezanne-U and only a few high robbery priced Cezanne-H are really available. Icelake-U was big volume after 4 months compared to this fail. No wonder the OEMs are impatiently waiting for Tigerlake-H, they can't make money with Cezanne from nothing. All the comparisons with Cezanne-H are more theoretical, Tigerlake-H is the real deal for the higher performance notebook market.
Click to expand...
You have no clue what OEMs are talking about right now. Stop talking.

Sorry, but your BS is fully in FUD levels now as you're totally clueless.
 
  • Like
Reactions: french toast, Tlh97 and Tarkin77
Upvote 0 Downvote
E

eek2121

Platinum Member
Aug 2, 2005
2,930
4,026
136
mikk said:
Cezanne is a big fail. 4 months after the launch it isn't even low volume. Almost no Cezanne-U and only a few high robbery priced Cezanne-H are really available. Icelake-U was big volume after 4 months compared to this fail. No wonder the OEMs are impatiently waiting for Tigerlake-H, they can't make money with Cezanne from nothing. All the comparisons with Cezanne-H are more theoretical, Tigerlake-H is the real deal for the higher performance notebook market.
Click to expand...

Cezanne is widely available. I don't know why you would post this nonsense. ASUS, Lenovo, and Razer all have laptop offerings.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Gideon

Gideon

Golden Member
Nov 27, 2007
1,637
3,673
136
Somebody mentioned here how OEMs are totally "fed up" with Cezanne and wait patiently to only use Tiger Lake U and H ?

Well, it sure doesn't look that way:
All of these (and there are more) are only a couple days old all coming weeks after Tiger Lake H was made official. We'll certainly get more at Computex.

And then there are also reviews of excellent Cezanne laptops that are just now getting to market and finally have comparable internals to top-of-the-line Intel equivalents (like liquid metal and such). Like these two from ASUS:
 
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: lightmanek, Tlh97, moinmoin and 1 other person
Upvote 0 Downvote
uzzi38

uzzi38

Platinum Member
Oct 16, 2019
2,629
5,938
146
Gideon said:
Somebody mentioned here how OEMs are totally "fed up" with Cezanne and wait patiently to only use Tiger Lake U and H ?

Well, it sure doesn't look that way:
All of these (and there are more) are only a couple days old all coming weeks after Tiger Lake H was made official. We'll certainly get more at Computex.

And then there are also reviews of excellent Cezanne laptops that are just now getting to market and finally have comparable internals to top-of-the-line Intel equivalents (like liquid metal and such). Like these two from ASUS:
Click to expand...

Because that person has absolutely no clue what OEMs say regarding CZN vs TGL-H.

TGL-H is the lower margin product for them. Why would they be "fed up" with AMD?
 
  • Like
Reactions: lightmanek
Upvote 0 Downvote
S

Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
3,855
1,518
136
DrMrLordX said:
Wonder what availability will look like for AM4 Cezanne? Renoir was mostly MIA except for OEM parts.
Click to expand...

There is a severe shortage of APUs worldwide in the DIY market, there is just no way that AMD can produce enoght of them.

Also, the pricing changed a lot since Renoir, AMD had $99 3200G and $150 3400G by the time Renoir came out in OEMs, and we knew that even the entry-level 4350G was more expensive than the 3400G, all reviews would have been negative if Renoir ever went to DIY with those prices.

Now... things have changed, they can price the 5300G at $180 and no one would say a thing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lightmanek
Upvote 0 Downvote
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

COMPANY
RESOURCES
FOLLOW
Top Bottom