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Discussion AMD Cezanne/Zen 3 APU Speculation and Discussion

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burninatortech4

Senior member
Jan 29, 2014
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I think this is slightly misleading. The 5300G is Zen 2 (Cezanne). The 5400G is the low end Zen 3 (Lucienne). That's the chip we need to keep an eye out for.

I'm not shocked that the 5300G isn't significantly faster than the 4350G. Cezzane and Renior are essentially the same chip.

Source: AMD's Ryzen 5000 Lucienne: Not Simply Rebranded Ryzen 4000 Renoir (anandtech.com)
Thanks for the correction. The 4c/8t Zen 3 U and G series parts are what I'm looking out for.
 

mikk

Diamond Member
May 15, 2012
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Your impression doesn't match reality in Germany then.
Geizhals right now lists 61 models with Cezanne, by ASUS, Acer, Lenovo and HP. ASUS is in stock, Acer appears to launch in early May, Lenovo is said to ship within 1-2 weeks, only the HP models are without any date so far.
You got it wrong. Nothing is available there - apart from some high priced Asus devices in one store: https://geizhals.de/?cat=nb&xf=9690_Cezanne&asuch=&bpmin=&bpmax=&v=l&hloc=de&plz=&dist=&mail=&sort=p&bl1_id=30

People were moaning about the slow Tigerlake-U start last autumn but here we have once again another super slow AMD mobile start which is even slower.
 
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leoneazzurro

Senior member
Jul 26, 2016
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Availability must be checked day by day in this situation, today morning on the same site there are 5 Asus models available in 3 shops. These seems to sell like hot cakes btw. This means that Asus has some real availability earlier than other manufacturers, the fact other models are listed means thay are coming soon but real ETA must be verified in practice.
 
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LightningZ71

Senior member
Mar 10, 2017
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I know it's Lucienne, but Lenovo seems to be getting the mild refresh of the Flex 5 2 in 1 onto the market with the 5700u. I've seen two limited stock offerings over the last two days. For the price, which is running about $800, that's not a bad deal (5700u, 16, 512).
 
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mikk

Diamond Member
May 15, 2012
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Availability must be checked day by day in this situation, today morning on the same site there are 5 Asus models available in 3 shops. These seems to sell like hot cakes btw. This means that Asus has some real availability earlier than other manufacturers, the fact other models are listed means thay are coming soon but real ETA must be verified in practice.
I'm checking it constantly. Pretty sure Asus received these chips earlier thanks to an exclusive agreement. I really doubt they sell these like hot cakes, they are too expensive and extremely limited availability (only one shop speaks for itself), means they can't sell a lot of these. The chip number of Cezanne must be really low. AMD has a long way to go in the mobile segment.
 
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leoneazzurro

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Jul 26, 2016
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I'm checking it constantly. Pretty sure Asus received these chips earlier thanks to an exclusive agreement. I really doubt they sell these like hot cakes, they are too expensive and extremely limited availability (only one shop speaks for itself), means they can't sell a lot of these. The chip number of Cezanne must be really low. AMD has a long way to go in the mobile segment.
I said there were 3 shops with availability on different models (TUF gaming, Zephirus 14" and 15").and you say there is one. Are you checking the same site? One of these models is under 1500€, another version is around 1500€. For a gaming laptop of these performances is quite not "very expensive". Today's check has four online shops (alternate, Saturn, hardwarecamp24 and Cyberport), with availability of four different Asus models.

 
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jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
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Oh I see. There's an HP Omen that you can preorder but it doesn't ship until the end of April. Might not see much in the US until then.
 

moinmoin

Platinum Member
Jun 1, 2017
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Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
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RMB isn't just an iGPU update, it's practically an entire SoC update.
Sure, but they are giving it 12 CU RDNA2 (i also assume they are bigger than Vega CUs), what it is a lot considering they made the IGPs smaller not so long ago.
 

uzzi38

Golden Member
Oct 16, 2019
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Sure, but they are giving it 12 CU RDNA2 (i also assume they are bigger than Vega CUs), what it is a lot considering they made the IGPs smaller not so long ago.
They made it smaller because the performance increase going to 11CUs was minimal just down to crappy scaling with too many shaders per Shader Engine. Better off going fast and narrow with Vega than slow but wide.
 
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Shivansps

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Sep 11, 2013
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They made it smaller because the performance increase going to 11CUs was minimal just down to crappy scaling with too many shaders per Shader Engine. Better off going fast and narrow with Vega than slow but wide.
Dosent the fact the 4700G is barely able to beat the 3400G by 20% MAX with faster rams, more IPC, double the cores AND the 700mhz igp clock advantage what is HUGE, proves that to be wrong? And with Intel Xe around it is clear you can get more performance out of LPDDR4X than what Vega 8 at 2100mhz can.

They had to clock them way too high to make up for the lost CUs, that has a cost. To me, what was the more important change was the cut down in ROPs from 16 to 8, they did that silently and never said anything about it, that seem to had zero impact in performance and thats probably why they clock that high, i dont think there was more internal changes than that.

In the end, we cant be sure why they made Vega IGPs smaller, but wharever it was, it looks like they are reverting it now.
 
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uzzi38

Golden Member
Oct 16, 2019
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Dosent the fact the 4700G is barely able to beat the 3400G by 20% MAX with faster rams, more IPC, double the cores AND the 700mhz igp clock advantage what is HUGE, proves that to be wrong? And with Intel Xe around it is clear you can get more performance out of LPDDR4X than what Vega 8 at 2100mhz can.

They had to clock them way too high to make up for the lost CUs, that has a cost. To me, what was the more important change was the cut down in ROPs from 16 to 8, they did that silently and never said anything about it, that seem to had zero impact in performance and thats probably why they clock that high, i dont think there was more internal changes than that.

In the end, we cant be sure why they made Vega IGPs smaller, but wharever it was, it looks like they are reverting it now.
The problem is that Vega's cache structure sucked. It was a problem with GCN in general, and the reason why you often see people say that it stopped scalings around 48 CUs or so - adding more CUs to each Shader Array would add very minimal performance after a certain point.

Renoir and Cezanne barely even scale with better clocks past what they ship with either. Cezanne increased IGPU clocks by like 250MHz, yet performance has barely increased by 5% over Renoir. There's nothing extra to squeeze out from Vega.
 

movdx

Junior Member
May 19, 2019
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Maybe it is an out of scope/topic question but how much performance increase in igpu should we expect with Rembrandt?
 

Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
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Maybe it is an out of scope/topic question but how much performance increase in igpu should we expect with Rembrandt?
im expecting RX570 performance as best case scenario and GTX1650 performance as worse case scenario. It will all depend on how well feed are those 12CUs.
 

Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
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I doubt it. Their supply situation hasn't really changed in a significant way. I believe it will just be grey market like last gen.
i dont fully belive the story of Renoir never going to retail because AMD didnt cared or availity, i think Renoir was just not up to the task at the prices that AMD wanted to it to have. Example: The 4300G was a terrible 3400G replacement, higher price, lower igp perf, like 10-15% more cpu perf... and completely missing 3200G replacement. Reviews would have terrible, and the price increase of the starting APU would have been impossible to mask.

This is supported by the fact the PRO versions of Renoir are leaking into retail channels in numbers that i had never seen before. The timing is all wrong too, that generally happens when the product is being or is phased out, for example, there is tons of OEM PRO 2200G / 2400G around.
 

LightningZ71

Senior member
Mar 10, 2017
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I feel that it's only really competitive at a reasonable price in the 1L tiny uSFF cases. I've seen a good many of the 4XXX APUs in the tiny Lenovo PCs and they do a great job in those. The restricted thermals really works well with the mobile aim of the die itself. If you compare the APUs vs. Intel's "T" versions of their desktop dies that are typically used in those devices, they tend to outperform them both in CPU performance AND iGPU performance.
 

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