AMD A10-5800K preview - iGPU side only

[NostaSeronx]

The problem with Trinity is the ROPs and the core voltage. 25 to 30 GB/s from the system memory is not fast enough to feed the ROPs. The core voltage is 0.5 volts away from the i7 3770K. With that the i7 3770K should consume 55.5% or 2x less power than the A10-5800K. There is a ton of room for improvement in Trinity.

 

[inf64]

Yeah,but he didn't need to insult me in the process... I guess he was VERY happy to find that example where it's below 1.8x the performance of 3770K .

 

[anikhtos]

amd must resolve the memory bandwidth problem.
the highter clocked the memory the better the igpu performs put the more money you have to pay. thus making the platform ridiculous expensive.
it is the same in notebooks they sell them with single memroy channel crippling completely the igpu intels or amds.

amd could have introduced triple memory or quadro memory channel for a10 in an attempt to solve the bandwidth problem cost effective for the user
4 memory modules at low speed will cost less than 2 at hight speed.

trinity or what ever that follows with more memory bandwidth will be much more competitive.
they same we see in the gpu remember all the 5450 the versions with ddr3 and gddr5??? all the same only the memory was different. how much the ddr3 version lacked behind the gddr5 model???? the modern gpu are drawn for more and more memory bandwidth period

 

[pantsaregood]

High speed RAM isn't really that expensive. You generally pay around a $5-10 premium for it.

 

[anikhtos]

High speed RAM isn't really that expensive. You generally pay around a $5-10 premium for it.

premium

well it depends which speed you consider high speed??
1600 to 1866
1866 to something highter??
1333 to 1600???

which memory speed you consider the base for today!!?!?!?

 

[piesquared]

In another cool feat, the AMD A10 can run the PC game Torchlight II (pictured below) at 32 frames per second, even with all graphics settings turned on, across three connected screens. That’s pretty badass. The products will be available on Oct. 2

http://venturebeat.com/2012/09/26/a...-burn-intels-ivy-bridge/#.UGPRJsSKigI.twitter

 

[Olikan]

The problem with Trinity is the ROPs and the core voltage. 25 to 30 GB/s from the system memory is not fast enough to feed the ROPs. The core voltage is 0.5 volts away from the i7 3770K. With that the i7 3770K should consume 55.5% or 2x less power than the A10-5800K. There is a ton of room for improvement in Trinity.

 

[Centauri]

premium

Yeah, uh... I'm pretty sure you can find 8GBs of 2400MHz DDR3 for under $80 these days...

 

[bunnyfubbles]

premium

well it depends which speed you consider high speed??
1600 to 1866
1866 to something highter??
1333 to 1600???

which memory speed you consider the base for today!!?!?!?

1600 is the base for today, and 8GB kits that can do 2133 can be had for ~$40-46

 

[anikhtos]

lets see
ddr3 2x4gb memory
speed 1333 30,5 euro
speed 1600 32,90 euro
speed 1866 38,50 euro
speed 2133 46,90 euro
speed 2400 52,9 euro
speed 2400 101.90 euro
speed 2666 115,90 euro

so 4 modules 1333 ram would cost 10 euro more than 2 modules at 2400 ram
the answer is at more channels of memory not higher speed for the apu cause higher speeds are so expensive

 

[Gigantopithecus]

Only two important points:
1. Trinity's top-end iGPU performs about the same as the GT 440, which is a $60-70 card.
2. If Trinity's top-end CPU is about the same as the i3-3220 (which all data seem to suggest), and AMD prices it about the same as the i3-3220, AMD will have a big success on their hands.

Trinity is clearly capable of producing acceptable framerates in a wide variety of games at 720p. It will absolutely become the budget gaming king.

 

[piesquared]

Maybe one could use the Accelerated Memory Profile with AMD certified memory and achieve higher clocks automatically.

 

[AtenRa]

lets see
ddr3 2x4gb memory
speed 1333 30,5 euro
speed 1600 32,90 euro
speed 1866 38,50 euro
speed 2133 46,90 euro
speed 2400 52,9 euro
speed 2400 101.90 euro
speed 2666 115,90 euro

so 4 modules 1333 ram would cost 10 euro more than 2 modules at 2400 ram
the answer is at more channels of memory not higher speed for the apu cause higher speeds are so expensive

You forgetting that for a Quad Channel you need a bigger CPU die(higher cost), bigger CPU socket (Higher cost), more PCB layers and more rooting in the motherboard (higher cost) etc.
In the end, your Platform will cost the same as Socket 2011

 

[frozentundra123456]

An nv 640 is collosal failure and is obliterated by the competition. You can get a Dual Graphics capable card that will crush intels slide show projector, or SSP, and compete with much more expensive platforms. AMD nailed it with Trinity!

Wait, you say the GT 640 is a "colossal failure", yet it beats Trinity in every benchmark except 1 by a considerable margin. So how does that make trinity a great gaming chip?

I will not argue that Trinity is much faster that HD4000 on the desktop (in mobile, not so much).

My point is that Trinity is not enough for gaming in current titles at decent settings and resolutions. And I disregard crossfire. For one it has not been proven yet to work consistently. And secondly, it defeats the purpose of having an APU when you then have to go out and buy a discrete card. Plus even it you got past the previous 2 reservations, you cannot really crossfire a powerful card with it. Better to get a discrete card in the first place. Personally, I would pick an intel i5 or i7 for sure, but if forced to stay with AMD, I would even pick a Phenom 2 over Trinity if one were available.

 

[frozentundra123456]

http://venturebeat.com/2012/09/26/a...-burn-intels-ivy-bridge/#.UGPRJsSKigI.twitter

Yea, I played the demo of that game. It is a real graphics powerhouse.

 

[Idontcare]

amd could have introduced triple memory or quadro memory channel for a10 in an attempt to solve the bandwidth problem cost effective for the user
4 memory modules at low speed will cost less than 2 at hight speed.

This is true. They should have implemented quad-channel IMC with Trinity. Why throw all those xtors at an iGPU and starve it for bandwidth because you wouldn't throw some xtors at the IMC?

 

[frozentundra123456]

Only two important points:
1. Trinity's top-end iGPU performs about the same as the GT 440, which is a $60-70 card.
2. If Trinity's top-end CPU is about the same as the i3-3220 (which all data seem to suggest), and AMD prices it about the same as the i3-3220, AMD will have a big success on their hands.

Trinity is clearly capable of producing acceptable framerates in a wide variety of games at 720p. It will absolutely become the budget gaming king.

My monitor is 6 years old and it is 900p. Guess I will have to go out and upgrade to 720p since that is what you want everybody to game at. Are there even 720p monitors available?
And gaming at non-native resolutions looks like crap.

Trinity might be the "budget gaming king" if you want to only play (ughh) facebook games.

 

[piesquared]

Yea, I played the demo of that game. It is a real graphics powerhouse.

Ahh sarcasm..

If its no great achiegment, show me any intel hardware capable of doing the same...

 

[alexruiz]

...if forced to stay with AMD, I would even pick a Phenom 2 over Trinity if one were available...

I take from this paragraph that you haven't used a FX yet. I had the same mindset of not touching the FXs because of the reviews. I eventually gave up to the temptation as those microcenter combos were screaming "buy me".

What did I notice going from unlocked 960T Zosma stock to a FX4100 in one machine? Performance wise, practically nothing. System has a Sandisk extreme 120GB SSD (toggle nand) as boot drive so it was already very responsive. The system didn't lose or gain any perceivable speed in any application. What I DID notice is that the system was quieter. The system fan was running slower pretty much all the time. After further reading I found that the FX has much lower power usage at idle or low utilization, and the motherboard was doing a good job with the PWM fan.

Piledriver improves on bulldozer in every way, so for low power usage (web browsing, office work, etc) it will be even quieter. I have some machines with relatives to update, and I know that trinity with SSD will be a BIG improvement in them, and it will handle the occasional game.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

I myself am interested in this for a HTPC with a low power discrete card in crossfire. Those are the benchmarks I want to see.

 

[anikhtos]

by the way more interesting is
a10-5700 not a10-5800k
65 watt 100 watt 50%
3,4gz 3,8gz 12%
4,0gz turbo 4,2gz 5%
the rest characteristic are the same

so for 12% more cpu you have 50% more power consumption
and only 5% more cpu when turbo is activated.

from characteristic aspect i see a10-5700 more attractive
by the way this is targeting people that would not over-clock.
how many budget people tent to over-clock!?!?!?
and over-clock itself means expensive hardware in motherboard, power supply, memory which makes the discussion irrelevant anyhow.

just another though of me

 

[Centauri]

and over-clock itself means expensive hardware in motherboard, power supply, memory which makes the discussion irrelevant anyhow.

...what?!

 

[anikhtos]

...what?!

can you overclock in a cheap mobo??
you need faster ram
better psu
and a better cooling solutions
right?!?!?

 

[Centauri]

No, you pretty much just need software customizable enough to allow you to maximize on your hardware setup as it is. Though it obviously depends on the extent to which you intend to overclock. Not everybody who kicks things up in EFI is running liquid cooling with expensive RAM and 20 system fans.

The entire point of unlocking something like Trinity is that significantly better performance can be achieved by simply making sure you have good memory and a halfway decent HSF.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/a8-3870k-apu-overclocking-guide,3260.html

 

[frozentundra123456]

I take from this paragraph that you haven't used a FX yet. I had the same mindset of not touching the FXs because of the reviews. I eventually gave up to the temptation as those microcenter combos were screaming "buy me".

What did I notice going from unlocked 960T Zosma stock to a FX4100 in one machine? Performance wise, practically nothing. System has a Sandisk extreme 120GB SSD (toggle nand) as boot drive so it was already very responsive. The system didn't lose or gain any perceivable speed in any application. What I DID notice is that the system was quieter. The system fan was running slower pretty much all the time. After further reading I found that the FX has much lower power usage at idle or low utilization, and the motherboard was doing a good job with the PWM fan.

Piledriver improves on bulldozer in every way, so for low power usage (web browsing, office work, etc) it will be even quieter. I have some machines with relatives to update, and I know that trinity with SSD will be a BIG improvement in them, and it will handle the occasional game.

I appreciate you comments on your experiences. However, I was not really referring to FX chips at all. What I said was that I would take the previous architecture compared to Trinity. I probably would, in fact choose an FX chip with a discrete card in preference to Trinity as well, if I were to go the AMD route.

Basically, except for casual and very light gaming, I consider the igpu in trinity a detriment. Takes up die space and uses power, but is still not up to snuff for gaming with modern titles at high quality and decent resolutions. And yes, I also feel the same way about intel igpus. In fact, I prefer AMDs strategy of having one high performance chip without a GPU and another low end/mainstream chip with an igpu. Unfortunately, intels mid to high end chips even with the igpu still are faster in the applications that I am interested in than AMDs FX.