30% performance increase over X1950XTX sounds very plausible to me. What you need to remember is that G80 isn't a real product. 
What I mean by that is that it's the spiritual successor to the 7800GTX512. Remember what the state of the market was at that time? ATI's potential competition was subject to delay after delay, so Nvidia was able to bring out a card that was significantly faster than anything on the market, and fantastically expensive. There was no competition, so they got away with it. It wasn't until R520 and then R580 finally shipped that Nvidia released the 7900 series.
Nvidia isn't expecting normal people to buy G80. It will be bought by Nvidia zealots and people who absolutely must have the fastest no matter what. No one else.
Things will get interesting again in March. R600 will (I hope) be out in February. In March Nvidia will (I hope) be releasing their next chip(s) after G80. That release will have the same relationship to G80 that the 7900 series had to the 7800GTX512 - as fast, but far cheaper. (They'll probably be using GDDR4 memory by the Spring, which will give a healthy price/performance boost).
Incidentally, one minor point: the original quote about the 30% figure mentioned that the source had had two days to test it. It doesn't require two days to run 3DMark a couple of times. This explains the discrepancy between that figure and the 3DMark numbers quoted: in 3DMark (running on a Kentsfield processor) there is a much larger margin, but in a variety of apps tested over the course of a couple of days, a 30% performance increase is typical. (Or at least, that's how I read it).
What I mean by that is that it's the spiritual successor to the 7800GTX512. Remember what the state of the market was at that time? ATI's potential competition was subject to delay after delay, so Nvidia was able to bring out a card that was significantly faster than anything on the market, and fantastically expensive. There was no competition, so they got away with it. It wasn't until R520 and then R580 finally shipped that Nvidia released the 7900 series.Nvidia isn't expecting normal people to buy G80. It will be bought by Nvidia zealots and people who absolutely must have the fastest no matter what. No one else.
Things will get interesting again in March. R600 will (I hope) be out in February. In March Nvidia will (I hope) be releasing their next chip(s) after G80. That release will have the same relationship to G80 that the 7900 series had to the 7800GTX512 - as fast, but far cheaper. (They'll probably be using GDDR4 memory by the Spring, which will give a healthy price/performance boost).
Incidentally, one minor point: the original quote about the 30% figure mentioned that the source had had two days to test it. It doesn't require two days to run 3DMark a couple of times. This explains the discrepancy between that figure and the 3DMark numbers quoted: in 3DMark (running on a Kentsfield processor) there is a much larger margin, but in a variety of apps tested over the course of a couple of days, a 30% performance increase is typical. (Or at least, that's how I read it).
Zebo
Elite Member
- Jul 29, 2001
- 39,398
- 19
- 81
3DMark ratings are irrelevent. Only thing it's good for is making a quick comparitive analysis of your overclock IMO. The resolutions are atrocious with nothing on and they don't scale with games very well. You don't play 3Dmark, but oblivion and other games instead and we all know how differnent the cards are then dispite 3Dmarks relative partity between competing products...So really what's it worth? I don't even look at synthetics in reviews waste of time.
I think what people aren't taking into account is that the 30% number was
1) On completely early revisions without proper drivers
2) might also be CPU limited
I don't think there is any reason that once complete optimized drivers are released and they actually use DX10 that that 30% increase couldn't jump to 50% or more...easily.
1) On completely early revisions without proper drivers
2) might also be CPU limited
I don't think there is any reason that once complete optimized drivers are released and they actually use DX10 that that 30% increase couldn't jump to 50% or more...easily.
lol link is dead, meaning they prolly took it down b/c it wasnt accurate?? or just specualted info....
also by 30% faster in what??
if its 30% faster in 3dmark06 its pretty good.
another thing is that i cant believe 8800GTS is on par with X1950XTX... that is bogus unless he posted a screenshot ro seomthing i would take that as bs/speculative bs
also by 30% faster in what??
if its 30% faster in 3dmark06 its pretty good.
another thing is that i cant believe 8800GTS is on par with X1950XTX... that is bogus unless he posted a screenshot ro seomthing i would take that as bs/speculative bs
zephyrprime
Diamond Member
- Feb 18, 2001
- 7,512
- 2
- 81
Anyone think that the additional die could be a physics processor? The g80 is supposed to have something called "quantum effects processing". Maybe the extra die is a fully capable physics processor? That would explain why it has such a huge transistor count but relatively poor rumored 3dmark06 scores since 3dmark really only measures graphics power.
nitromullet
Diamond Member
- Jan 7, 2004
- 9,031
- 36
- 91
a few comments...
The 8800GTX/GTS are more like 7800GTX(256)/GT, than the 7800GTX 512. The GTX 512 was launched as a direct attack against the X1800XT in an attempt to take the performance crown. Both cards (7800GTX 512/X1800XT) were available in very limited numbers at the time, and both were expensive. The MSRP on both cards were actually quite close IIRC, but the GTX 512 was marked up severly by retailers because of higer demand. While ATI still didn't have a high end card available in high quantities, NVIDIA still had the 7800GTX and GT models with widespread availability, and they sold a lot of them. The 7800GTX/GT were good cards in their day, although the GTX (even the 256) was pretty expensive.
I think you are incorrect about this. The 8800GTS will probably be a fairly widespread part, as it will essentially replace the ubiquitous 7900GT/7950GT much like the 7800GT was a worthy successor to the 6800GT. The cards you are talking about are NVIDIA's next generation of cards for the next 6(ish) months, not some stop gap simply thrown out there to get the performance crown.
I agree that by March we will know the true winner for this generation, but before R600 or "8900/G81" ships NVIDIA will sell a lot of 8800 (G80) series cards.
Originally posted by: nrb
30% performance increase over X1950XTX sounds very plausible to me. What you need to remember is that G80 isn't a real product.
The 8800GTX/GTS are more like 7800GTX(256)/GT, than the 7800GTX 512. The GTX 512 was launched as a direct attack against the X1800XT in an attempt to take the performance crown. Both cards (7800GTX 512/X1800XT) were available in very limited numbers at the time, and both were expensive. The MSRP on both cards were actually quite close IIRC, but the GTX 512 was marked up severly by retailers because of higer demand. While ATI still didn't have a high end card available in high quantities, NVIDIA still had the 7800GTX and GT models with widespread availability, and they sold a lot of them. The 7800GTX/GT were good cards in their day, although the GTX (even the 256) was pretty expensive.
I think you are incorrect about this. The 8800GTS will probably be a fairly widespread part, as it will essentially replace the ubiquitous 7900GT/7950GT much like the 7800GT was a worthy successor to the 6800GT. The cards you are talking about are NVIDIA's next generation of cards for the next 6(ish) months, not some stop gap simply thrown out there to get the performance crown.
I agree that by March we will know the true winner for this generation, but before R600 or "8900/G81" ships NVIDIA will sell a lot of 8800 (G80) series cards.
For all we know, it could just be a software feature in the drivers that uses shaders to do math, nothing special aout it. Or it could actually be implemented in hardware with dedicated logic. But I seriously doubt NV will allocate a separate die for functionality that isnt even in line with the main purpose of the video card, not to mention that it may be hardly used by the developers during the useful lifetime of the card. But at least it's nice to see the video card makers taking physics processing seriously now, so hopefully I wont have to shell out a few hundred bucks for a dedicated PPU.
Originally posted by: apoppin
exactly what nvidia says
"what problems"
:Q
there are NO problems with G80
<<any perceived G80 shortcomings can be directly tied to ATi's PR sewer system . . . fanatics . . . and uneducated reviewers>>
uh huh
In case you had not noticed (possibly due to you rose tinted sunnies) the post I linked to was made by Beyond3D's editor - one of the few people in the world who actually have access to G80 at the moment...
apoppin
Lifer
Originally posted by: Gstanfor
Originally posted by: apoppin
exactly what nvidia says
"what problems"
:Q
there are NO problems with G80
<<any perceived G80 shortcomings can be directly tied to ATi's PR sewer system . . . fanatics . . . and uneducated reviewers>>
uh huh
In case you had not noticed (possibly due to you rose tinted sunnies) the post I linked to was made by Beyond3D's editor - one of the few people in the world who actually have access to G80 at the moment...
i noticed you linked to . . . . nothing.
===============
yesOriginally posted by: Ronin
Originally posted by: apoppin
imo this is crucial for nvidia
IF nvidia fails with g80 .... i don't think the company will be even recognizable 5 years from now.
Doesn't someone say this every nextgen launch?
. . . and thank-you for noticing
:Q
it was my 'turn'
now it doesn't need to be mentioned again 'till the next time
5150Joker
Diamond Member
apoppin
Lifer
and you are completely beyond the help of any number of teams of mental health professionals....'stop posting' would be the first step for you but i realize it is impossible to keep your hatred for ATi bottled up.
[too bad . . . "Bottled Hatred" would be an idea]
your link was absolutely useless . . . it supported nothing you posted
[as usual]
:thumbsdown:
Originally posted by: apoppin
and you are completely beyond the help of any number of teams of mental health professionals....'stop posting' would be the first step for you but i realize it is impossible to keep your hatred for ATi bottled up.
[too bad . . . "Bottled Hatred" would be an idea]
your link was absolutely useless . . . it supported nothing you posted
[as usual]
:thumbsdown:
"Mate"... You arwe the one claiming my link doesn't prove anything, you are the one claiming crossfire is superior to SLi, you are the one claiming ATi PR doesn't lie...
I've found you a picture you could base your anandtech avatar on by the way
Text
The reaction of most ingame character to him is remarkably similar to how people react to your posts here... He even has a sunnies fetish...
As noted on b3d, I really like the oval fan. New tech!!!
Being a mental health professional type myself, its not all its cracked up to be. You also seem to have some connection with the breed?
nitromullet
Diamond Member
- Jan 7, 2004
- 9,031
- 36
- 91
Can't do much about that nitromullet - I'm literally at the other end of the world compared to most of you. Hadn't seen them posted here yet though.
apoppin
Lifer
Originally posted by: Gstanfor
Originally posted by: apoppin
and you are completely beyond the help of any number of teams of mental health professionals....'stop posting' would be the first step for you but i realize it is impossible to keep your hatred for ATi bottled up.
[too bad . . . "Bottled Hatred" would be an idea]
your link was absolutely useless . . . it supported nothing you posted
[as usual]
:thumbsdown:
"Mate"... You arwe the one claiming my link doesn't prove anything, you are the one claiming crossfire is superior to SLi, you are the one claiming ATi PR doesn't lie...
I've found you a picture you could base your anandtech avatar on by the way
Text
The reaction of most ingame character to him is remarkably similar to how people react to your posts here... He even has a sunnies fetish...
probably based on your own 'family' ... and the reactions of ATF members here to you are that you are simply insane
[the glasses are much closer to your green than red]
FACT: Your link IS completely and totally useless in "backing up" your 'problem free g80' claim. it could ALSO be used to suggest g80 is CRAP and FULL of problems
:evil:
[you gotta know how to read emoticons]
FACT: Crossfire IS superior to SLi in CERTAIN very specific and rather narrow circumstances . . . again NOT "my" claim but as defined by the ATi PR quote in your link
FACT: i only stated that nvidia PR is WORSE than ATi's
now TWIST that
:roll:
except in yourself
in your case dementia evidently proved to be contagious
"could also be used"
"Certain specific and narrow circumstances"
You are very good at seeing the exact opposite of what the majority see, aren't you Batshit?, err appopin?
"Certain specific and narrow circumstances"
You are very good at seeing the exact opposite of what the majority see, aren't you Batshit?, err appopin?
GTaudiophile
Lifer
- Oct 24, 2000
- 29,767
- 33
- 81
LOL! You nVidiots. G80 ain't out yet. You hear of this crappy 30% bit and you're already making exuses: drivers (but I thought NVDA drivers were God-like?), CPU limitation, and best of all, G80 is only a stop-gap measure until their March part arrives. Hah!
R600 is ATI's second-gen unified shader product...Microsoft chose their design over nVidia's for a reason...and it will show!
R600 is ATI's second-gen unified shader product...Microsoft chose their design over nVidia's for a reason...and it will show!
apoppin
Lifer
you aren't the majority
nor are you sane
nor can you even even spell my nick right
and now you think '+30%' is 'awesome' and the the "other company" is a Canadian sewer
loser
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