19 Year Old Girl Shot Looking for Help

[classy]

Never mind the posters who still insist she was shot just looking for help and knocking on the door, she obviously wasn't doing nary a thing wrong. That is just not possible.

They know this how? That's right, the family's lies who weren't there and insisted she was shot in the back of the head as she was leaving the porch.

Why did she knock on his door, no one knows and never will. But she broke no laws by knocking on his door. Knocking on his door is not B and E or trespassing.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Why did she knock on his door, no one knows and never will. But she broke no laws by knocking on his door. Knocking on his door is not B and E or trespassing.

Depends on how you're knocking and what you're shrieking while doing so.

 

[Geosurface]

Why did she knock on his door, no one knows and never will. But she broke no laws by knocking on his door. Knocking on his door is not B and E or trespassing.

I agree.

I do reserve the right to, at a later date, if Wafer or his attorneys present an argument which rings true, to say "ohhh you know what, that does make shooting her make sense" ...

but right now? with apparently an undamaged outer door, and the shooter himself saying "banging on my door" and us knowing she was almost certainly there for help and warmth, and not there to break in...

I'm having a hard time imagining what that argument would be.

 

[classy]

Depends on how you're knocking and what you're shrieking while doing so.

Okay she made a lot of noise, that's disturbing the peace. Last time I checked that is not a capital offense.

 

[Geosurface]

I was thinking about it and the best argument I can think of he could make would be something like this:

"I was still waking up, I realize now she was drunk as hell and that helps explain it, but she was making these weird noises out there it freaked me the hell out, it was like a loud moan... and that combined with the loud, forceful banging on my door, and still being half-awake, created a situation where I was freaked the hell out. Then, I open the main door and see her there, but you have to understand she had a hoodie up and I couldn't tell her gender, and she became even more animated and insistent once she saw me, and then she made a sudden move which I thought might be her going for a gun... and without even realizing it, I just instinctively pulled the trigger. It was like a reflex reaction... and I feel horrible about it now that I realize her situation and that she didn't have a weapon. But at the time... I really was in fear for my life."

If he were to make that argument and it were to be true, I could sort of see it. I still think he'd *probably* be deserving of a few years in prison, but if he got off scott free and that was his argument, I wouldn't be outraged about it.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

She had been walking around for hours doing... Something.... In my opinion it's more likely she demanded he let her the F in, open the GD door, etc etc.. Probably starting banging and pulling on the storm door. Drunk, high, covered in blood.

Again.. It's a risk thing. At that moment is he expected to risk himself and his family's life over something like that? Of course not.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Because he has the power to clean up some of the nonsense in the thread and instead seems to be endorsing it.

<snip>

Oh, I forgot....this isn't Discussion Club. My bad. Everything is held up to a different standard. People can just say stuff like this in P&N.

Now you are finally waking up and talking sense.

The power that be and the people that participate in the P&N have explicitly stated that they do not want restrictions.

Therefore as a member, I have the right to call you an idiot and a donkey and you have the same right back.

Doing so, as you noted, in the Discussion Club will get you in trouble.

<snip?
Everyone wants people to debate with facts, yet a certain group of people get to make statements about that night that cannot be verified as if they are fact.
<snip>

Going back to your original complaint; there are facts; there are opinions and there are scenarios. People like to mix them up and then complain when they are mixed up.

The facts that we have are very little in this case; PD reports have not been provided, accident information is based on pictures and witness statements via the media and the ME report.


We do not have access to the investigation reports; details on the "screen door", information that the legal sides are using for their statements.

Opinions and scenarios are being created based on leaks and personal experience.

Is there a problem with me pointing this out to the rabid people on both sides?

 

[spidey07]

Why did she knock on his door, no one knows and never will. But she broke no laws by knocking on his door. Knocking on his door is not B and E or trespassing.

How do you know she was even knocking on the door?

That's what the family is saying who weren't there.

 

[echo4747]

Anyone here familiar with Mich law? -
-Assuming this goes to a trial, for 2nd deg murder, will the shooter have 6 jurors like the Martin/Zimmerman case

-If so, do 100% of the jurors have to agree that the accused is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt ?
-What about lesser charges?
-Will Michigan allow this to be televised like Fla?

 

[classy]

She had been walking around for hours doing... Something.... In my opinion it's more likely she demanded he let her the F in, open the GD door, etc etc.. Probably starting banging and pulling on the storm door. Drunk, high, covered in blood.

Again.. It's a risk thing. At that moment is he expected to risk himself and his family's life over something like that? Of course not.

Unless she was showing the kind of force where she could possible breach the door or doors he should have waited till the cops came. He had already called them................oops that's right he hadn't called them.

 

[Geosurface]

She had been walking around for hours doing... Something.... In my opinion it's more likely she demanded he let her the F in, open the GD door, etc etc.. Probably starting banging and pulling on the storm door. Drunk, high, covered in blood.

Again.. It's a risk thing. At that moment is he expected to risk himself and his family's life over something like that? Of course not.

I agree, but the proper reaction at that point is to tell her to get the hell out of there, notify her you have a gun if it's necessary to get her to comply with that directive, etc.

If she responds with "you crazy, I was in an accident and I need help!" you could respond with "I'm calling the cops, you can feel free to wait for them to arrive out on the curb in front of my lawn, but get the hell away from my door NOW" or something.

But blowing a hole in her head is not necessary or acceptable based on what we know now.

 

[spidey07]

I'm not calling the cops if somebody is attempting to enter. I'm going to defend my castle.

The cops will never get there in time to do anything.

Being woken at 3 in the morning by somebody trying to enter your home your first thought isn't 911. It's panic and call to immediate action to meet the threat. Happened to me before. First reaction was to meet the threat at the door weapon drawn. Call the cops later.

 

[Geosurface]

I'm not calling the cops if somebody is attempting to enter. I'm going to defend my castle.

The cops will never get there in time to do anything.

Being woken at 3 in the morning by somebody trying to enter your home your first thought isn't 911. It's panic and call to immediate action to meet the threat. Happened to me before. First reaction was to meet the threat at the door weapon drawn. Call the cops later.

But if the person you shot turns out to have been black, there will probably be rallies and national attention and they may end up charging you whether the law and evidence supported doing so or not.

So, better to at least attempt to say "get the fuck out of here I have a gun" and give them a chance to comply with that.

So far, we don't have any information that Wafer did so. I will be very interested to hear what he claims she did.

We may not have any reason to expect a good justification in it, though, since supposedly he claimed it was an accident.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Many questions need to answered before anyone can make a definitive decision on this case.

Was the storm door intentionally or accidentally left open and the screen door was the only barrier to a person entering the house? What was happening with the door that made the home owner think the person was trying to breach the door/enter the house?

If not, did the owner open the storm door? If this is the case what caused him to fire the gun?

 

[classy]

She had been walking around for hours doing... Something.... In my opinion it's more likely she demanded he let her the F in, open the GD door, etc etc.. Probably starting banging and pulling on the storm door. Drunk, high, covered in blood.

Again.. It's a risk thing. At that moment is he expected to risk himself and his family's life over something like that? Of course not.

Let me do a re-direct on this one. While plausible, highly unlikely here. For one if she was behaving in the manner you are suggesting, I would assume two things. One there would some type of door damage that would lead the police to conclude that she may have been attempting to break in. And two, she would have awoken the neighbors. Now I am not sure if she did or not, but given the accusation level you are presenting here, I think it goes without saying, someone else would have heard her at that point.

Also if I opened the door and seen a person bleeding the common human decency thing to do, would be to call 911 for help and open the door to assist the person.

 

[bshole]

I'm not calling the cops if somebody is attempting to enter. I'm going to defend my castle.

ROFLMFAO!!!!

Yea, you have said that about 100 times on this thread. You are real bad ass. We are all scared of you and impressed too. You are kind of like Clinton Eastwood....... with a severe case of Tourettes.

Do you have anything new or interesting to add?

Ah forget that, tell me again in graphic detail how you would defend your castle from some black girl trying to bust your door down.

 

[classy]

Many questions need to answered before anyone can make a definitive decision on this case.

Was the storm door intentionally or accidentally left open and the screen door was the only barrier to a person entering the house? What was happening with the door that made the home owner think the person was trying to breach the door/enter the house?

If not, did the owner open the storm door? If this is the case what caused him to fire the gun?

You keep bringing this up, but it really has very little bearing. One if the storm door was open then by first hand accounts, he lied to the police. Because he would have been able to clearly see he shot someone.

 

[SheHateMe]

ROFLMFAO!!!!

Yea, you have said that about 100 times on this thread. You are real bad ass. We are all scared of you and impressed too. You are kind of like Clinton Eastwood....... with a severe case of Tourettes.

Do you have anything new or interesting to add?

Ah forget that, tell me again in graphic detail how you would defend your castle from some black girl trying to bust your door down.

Just flexing his muscles on the internet. I bet he's about 5'2 in real life.

 

[classy]

But if the person you shot turns out to have been black, there will probably be rallies and national attention and they may end up charging you whether the law and evidence supported doing so or not.

So, better to at least attempt to say "get the fuck out of here I have a gun" and give them a chance to comply with that.

So far, we don't have any information that Wafer did so. I will be very interested to hear what he claims she did.

We may not have any reason to expect a good justification in it, though, since supposedly he claimed it was an accident.

Given this is spidey, I highly doubt there are any blacks in his trailer park. Probably not any blacks within miles either.

 

[Geosurface]

Also if I opened the door and seen a person bleeding the common human decency thing to do, would be to call 911 for help and open the door to assist the person.

We have no way of knowing, at this time, whether he was able to see her race, gender, age, or status with regard to bleeding or whatever. We don't know that she was still bleeding 3 hours after the accident, and we've heard the person who saw her flee the scene say she put her hood up.

We don't know if Wafer turned on his porch light, though one would assume so.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

You keep bringing this up, but it really has very little bearing. One if the storm door was open then by first hand accounts, he lied to the police. Because he would have been able to clearly see he shot someone.

According to the ballistics data, the shot was not at a close range. If there were no lights on inside or outside the house he may not have been able to tell if he shot her or not.

 

[classy]

Just flexing his muscles on the internet. I bet he's about 5'2 in real life.

You just ain't recognizing his skills. Spidey said he comes to the door with his weapon drawn . You know he is bad ass. I wonder if he still plays with his Army men?

 

[classy]

According to the ballistics data, the shot was not at a close range. If there were no lights on inside or outside the house he may not have been able to tell if he shot her or not.

I may be wrong, but I think they said the shot was from close range.

 

[Geosurface]

According to the ballistics data, the shot was not at a close range. If there were no lights on inside or outside the house he may not have been able to tell if he shot her or not.

I heard one news reporter responding to it saying "so this really just means it was fired from 3 feet away or more?"

Now, I don't know much about this sort of thing but is it possible the ballistics data could still be compatible with a shot from only 3 feet away? To me that's close range.

 

[SheHateMe]

Perhaps you shouldn't be shooting people that you couldn't even identify?
Investigators say he shot her through the door. If he's really saying he couldn't ID her, either he pulled the trigger before his brain could even process the situation (she was clearly visible) or he did not clearly see anything because it was dark (she was not clearly visible).


Either way, he was in his doorway with a locked door between the two. He killed someone who posted no threat to him whilst standing outside with a locked door between them. No signs of damage to the door. If she was really pounding on his door demanding to get in...the neighbors would have heard something...the door would be damaged.


That's jail time. You guys can keep listening to Spidey's internal monologues if you want.


I also find it interesting that Wafer called 911, said he shot someone and then hung up right away before any questions could be asked.