120Hz Monitor LIST -- Includes LightBoost, G-SYNC, Overclockable, etc.

[King Mustard]

Do LightBoost 2 monitors work with AMD's HD3D?

 

[Mark Rejhon]

Do LightBoost 2 monitors work with AMD's HD3D?

Normally, no, but I've heard of hacks that makes this work. Those are beyond the scope of Blur Busters -- and I don't think nVidia would be happy with people using nVidia LightBoost to do 3D with AMD graphics cards.

Blur Busters would rather nVidia not modify LightBoost to be harder to use for LightBoost 2D, as it took a while for ToastyX to make his easy Strobelight utility, that turns on/off LightBoost upon a keypress. Today, LightBoost is now more popular for 2D usage than for 3D -- just google the word "LightBoost" -- and it's in nVidia interests to not add more difficulty to the LightBoost unlocking.

 

[Mark Rejhon]

Added new Specialty Monitor:
- Eizo DuraVision FDF2405W ...... 23.5" 1920×1200 VA 120Hz native / 240Hz strobed

 

[looper]

Phillips just announced a new 144hz gaming monitor... Wonder how it will compare to the BenQ and Asus... HMM....

http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/philips_intros_242g5djeb_a_144_hz_gaming_monitor.html

 

[Mark Rejhon]

Phillips just announced a new 144hz gaming monitor... Wonder how it will compare to the BenQ and Asus... HMM....

http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/philips_intros_242g5djeb_a_144_hz_gaming_monitor.html

Old news -- it was already put on the website a month ago, but it seems the mainstream sites have only noticed today. It was announced on Blur Busters on August 9th! :biggrin:

It does not have LightBoost alas, but I have tried to email Philips to find out if it uses a strobe backlight. I am unfortunately assuming no, though. That said, I notice it was missing from this AnandTech list, so I've now updated the list.

 

[Mark Rejhon]

Good News: Eizo uses a LightBoost-like method! No interpolation!

The Eizo 240hz monitor uses a LightBoost-like strobe backlight! Upon studying the Eizo FDF-2405W manual for Eizo’s upcoming monitor, there is good news on page 15:

Reducing motion blur “Blur Reduction”

Motion blur occurs when the eye recognizes liquid crystal transitions which comes from changing screens (frames). When “Blur Reduction” is set to “On”, the backlight flickers in sync with liquid crystal transition*1 so the change cannot be seen, thereby achieving clear images with less blur. (Default setting: On)

*1 This monitor converts 120 Hz input signals into 240 Hz within the panel, and doubles the refresh rate to draw two images per frame. By applying a voltage higher than the input signal to speed up response (overdrive) for the first image, and then drawing the second image with the original input signal, the liquid crystals are stabilized. The “Blur Reduction” function turns on the backlight only for the stable duration of the second image, and off for other durations.

This means no interpolation is used, so no input lag from interpolation! The Eizo “240Hz” monitor achieves 240Hz via a two-pass refresh. One overdriven refresh in the dark, unseen by the human eye, followed by a single backlight strobe flash on a very clean 120Hz refresh. This should produce excellent LightBoost-style quality, reasonable input lag, and excellent VA colors. Although this model is targeted at GIS/mapping, this could potentially become an excellent casual-gaming 120Hz monitor with great color! An interesting question is the strobe flash length, as shorter strobe flahes results in less motion blur.

 

[looper]

Old news --[/url]! :biggrin:

It does not have LightBoost alas, but I have tried to email Philips to find out if it uses a strobe backlight. I am unfortunately assuming no, though. That said, I notice it was missing from this AnandTech list, so I've now updated the list.

Oops, I missed it....

 

[looper]

Good News: Eizo uses a LightBoost-like method! No interpolation!

The Eizo 240hz monitor uses a LightBoost-like strobe backlight! Upon studying the Eizo FDF-2405W manual for Eizo’s upcoming monitor, there is good news on page 15:



This means no interpolation is used, so no input lag from interpolation! The Eizo “240Hz” monitor achieves 240Hz via a two-pass refresh. One overdriven refresh in the dark, unseen by the human eye, followed by a single backlight strobe flash on a very clean 120Hz refresh. This should produce excellent LightBoost-style quality, reasonable input lag, and excellent VA colors. Although this model is targeted at GIS/mapping, this could potentially become an excellent casual-gaming 120Hz monitor with great color! An interesting question is the strobe flash length, as shorter strobe flahes results in less motion blur.

So at this point, you're thinking it would not be as 'fast' as the BenQ and the Asus for FPS games?

 

[Mark Rejhon]

So at this point, you're thinking it would not be as 'fast' as the BenQ and the Asus for FPS games?

Wide Internet knowledge says VA LCD's are generally not good for FPS gaming. However, this one might be different -- it's a 120Hz/240Hz VA LCD -- and it uses a strobe backlight. So this may be gaming friendly -- probably less input lag than a plasma display -- and more input lag than an ASUS/BENQ/EIZO gaming monitor. Still "playable" even if not a pro-gamer favourite.

The VA colors & the non-TN 120Hz, are BIG attractions, that may outweigh the minor VA input lag. This monitor likely costs four figures, and this would be more targeted at panning satellite maps such as government agencies (makes total sense -- eliminate motion blur caused by panning -- and there are recorded cases of motion blur eyestrain).

See web animation at TestUFO: Map Panning Test. Just try viewing that on just about any ordinary LCD. Yuck. Blurry text! When panning a map on any one-flicker-per-refresh display (LightBoost, Eizo 240Hz, CRT, etc) you can read maps while panning, which can aid in fast analysis of maps while panning in a hurry. This can speed up work and have less eyestrain, since you don't need to stop panning in order to read maps. By seeing that TestUFO map panning, you begin to understand Eizo's target market better.

The probable price alone, means it's priced out of reach of the enthusiast gaming market. The engineering of a blur-free VA monitor was probably expensive for Eizo; anyone could deduce that the good news is that 120Hz gaming VA's probably is "around the horizon" (a few years? a year? Who knows!) once the engineering costs are amortized. A smidgen more input lag, but the VA colors would obviously be worth it over TN colors! This display is importantly targeted at a specific audience who probably would be thrilled at the motion blur reductions combined with excellent VA color quality, but it does shows a hint of the future.

Keep tuned.

 

[hans030390]

Screw LightBoost for gaming...I'm using it for MAPS!

 

[thujone]

Screw LightBoost for gaming...I'm using it for MAPS!

this statement paired with your userpic is quite hilarious.


while thinking about monitors the other day i realized... this is the first time there have been "gaming monitors" in quite a while. for years now... basically all monitors were roughly equal outside of different panels (tn vs. ips). 1920x1200 was fairly rare due to most people hopping on the "HD" bandwagon with 1080p tv's/monitors...


my favorite thing about PC gaming is when you come across a beautiful scene in a game and it makes you stop to admire it. i feel that these moments are crafted not only by the programmers/artists/effects gurus that develop the games... but i also feel personally responsible in some way having oc'd my video card and putting some extra $$ into a decent monitor, etc. the fact that hardware manufacturers outside of the gpu market are starting to take part in this overjoys me to no end.


tl;dr: i really thought we'd be stuck at 1920x1080@60hz forever

 

[Narcotic_hobo]

Anyone hear anything as to whether or not a lightboost/zero motion blur monitor will come out in a 27" 1440p variety?

I hear that the samsungs are pretty good color reproduction wise and approach an ips panel in those terms, so if i could get one of those with 1440p and zero motion blur i may have found my perfect monitor.

 

[looper]

Unfortunately, I heard Panasonic is getting out of the plasma business.
So get them while you still can, as these are really good plasmas!

Wasn't it Panasonic that bought Pioneer's Plasma TV division? (I have a Pioneer Plasma #5010 bought @ 6 yrs ago or so... still considered one of the very best in PQ)

Oops, a semi-sideways bit of a hijack...sorry

 

[Mark Rejhon]

Wasn't it Panasonic that bought Pioneer's Plasma TV division?

Alas... www.google.com/#q=panasonic+exiting+plasma+business

That said, there are still plenty of Panasonic plasmas to go around. And Panasonic has some OLED gems up their sleeve.

Hopefully they can fix motion blur on the OLED's quickly. The chief issue is that they will need to improve motion blur on the OLED's over time. If Panasonic manages to keep motion blur under about 4ms (one-quarter of a 60Hz sample-and-hold isplay), they'll beat a lot of plasmas in motion blur. At about 8ms for the other OLED's (LG, Sony PVM), those other OLED's aren't as blur-free as plasma yet. (Why Do Some OLED's Have Motion Blur?).

 

[Dribble]

Yep, the additional smoothness, lack of motion blur, etc. is most beneficial in competitive games OR for people like me who are sensitive to those issues in nearly any gaming situation. LB on my monitor actually degrades picture quality, mostly due to the poor contrast ratio it causes. It can vary between monitors.

Got my lightboost monitor (benq xl2411t with new non pcm backlight) and I think that's the biggest downside. The blacks just aren't very black - I suspect due to the backlight being so darn bright. When you first get it it's at 100% and it's like staring at the sun - I run lightboost at the minimum level and it's still bright. Shame you can't turn it down as non flicker backlight should be able to strobe at 50% brightness. Wonder if that's available in the hidden settings menu anywhere?

 

[Aithos]

A good addition to this sticky would be if you list the screen types, matte/semi-glossy/glossy. Personally, I can't stand heavy matte finishes since I've been using glossy for years and it would be good information to have without having to look up every monitor on the list. Some of them are also no longer available or hard to find, so an updated section or a list of stores that carry them would be helpful.

Good sticky though...

 

[bwanaaa]

I found this panel : The 27QW IPS LED 27" LG AH-IPS
in this monitor:
http://www.amazon.com/CROSSOVER-27QW.../dp/B00EZM7GCY

is it the same panel listed in page 1 of this thread here:
QNIX QX2710 Evolution 2
?

I am wondering what the properties of this panel are- how overclockable? lightboostable?
Which technical parameters do I need to look at to answer my questions?

 

[Braxos]

Crossover have lg ips panels
Qnix have samsung pls panels

 

[bwanaaa]

Crossover have lg ips panels
Qnix have samsung pls panels

Well, items like this make the distinction blurry:
http://www.amazon.com/QNIX-QX2710-L...18128&sr=1-3&keywords=QNIX+QX2710+Evolution+2

It's listed as 27 inch 2560x1440 Samsung PLS (LG IPS)

since the crossover is a dual link only (DVI-D) I would assume it is 120 hz capable. Does anyone know? It's not on the list though.

 

[Xed]

I picked up a Benq XL2420TE since Amazon had it for $300 a few weeks ago. I was never thrilled with my Benq xl2420t since I could not get the color how I'd like it and text was just off a bit.

My first one had three stuck red pixels left-center but the replacement is perfect. Color is much better (for a tn panel) and eye fatique is a thing of the past. I also managed to get the gamma and brightness where I'd like it, which was another issue with the older model.

I'm quite happy with it so far.

 

[Black Octagon]

Well, items like this make the distinction blurry:
http://www.amazon.com/QNIX-QX2710-LE...10+Evolution+2

It's listed as 27 inch 2560x1440 Samsung PLS (LG IPS)

since the crossover is a dual link only (DVI-D) I would assume it is 120 hz capable. Does anyone know? It's not on the list though.

The LG IPS bit is wrong. The QNIX uses PLS panels

Also, just because a 'Korean' monitor only has one single DVI input does not (repeat NOT) mean that it is an overclocker. There's more to it than that. Quite a bit more

 

[looper]

Ok, I'm confused...

How does this new nVidia 'G Sync' hardware ( announced today I believe ) play into / or replace, the value of LightBoost in 2d with 120hz monitors?

I was about to possibly get the BenQ XL2420TE with an nVidia 770 or 780, but will hold up until I better understand this latest nVidia development... YIKES....

 

[jackstar7]

From what I understand of the new tech, this will be something that will potentially have issues with Lightboost, unless I missed a bit where they can synch all three elements (monitor refresh, fps, and lightboost strobing).

I think more hacking will be required, or a choice between G synch and lightboost.

Hopefully Mark is looking into things and will be able to offer more insight.

 

[Braxos]

G sync will synchronize the hz to the incomming fps and not fps to hz of the monitor.
That means the hz are not study but varies with the game, the settings, the gfx, the cpu so let the upgrades begin

 

[Gryz]

How does this new nVidia 'G Sync' hardware ( announced today I believe ) play into / or replace, the value of LightBoost in 2d with 120hz monitors?

There is a post on blurbusters.com that says that nVidia has said that we can use both G-Sync and back-light-strobing at the same time. On the other hand, John Carmack has tweeted that at this time, you can't use both features at the same time. Let's hope that is only true for the upgraded monitors. And that by the time the new ones come out next year, you can use both at the same time.

When Andy of nVidia was asked whether LightBoost could be combined with G-GSYNC, AndyBNV of nVidia confirmed on NeoGaf:

“We have a superior, low-persistence mode that should outperform that unofficial [LightBoost] implementation, and importantly, it will be available on every G-SYNC monitor. Details will be available at a later date.”.