Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)

[DisEnchantment]

Speculate at will

 

[Heartbreaker]

Is lacking love of Strix Halo here. No one understand how much this SoC is important to the whole computer market.
3N with RX 6750 XT performance.
Gpus becoming part of the CPU is future and m1 ultra is here to prove how much is possible to do an Ultimate APU.
Zero attention for the STXH tablet/notebook console that Lenovo is doing.

Is it even officially announced? Has there been any new important leaks?

Obviously the just released/reviewed part is going to get a lot more conversation than the unreleased part with no recent news/leaks.

 

[yottabit]

I wonder if Strix Point & Halo will get the “Ryzen PRO” treatment in Lenovo Thinkpads etc?

“Ryzen AI 9 PRO HX 370”

“Ryzen PRO AI 9 HX 370” ?

Rolls off the tongue

 

[igor_kavinski]

Rolls off the tongue

rAIzen.

Missed opportunity.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Some more:

Spoiler: MOARRR LOGOS!!

 

[del42sa]

Looking over the variance in some of the reviews, I would surmise the lower TDP (65W) is hurting some results more than others.
Why? Because it looks like some boards are putting unnecessarily high voltage on some rails (e.g. vSOC 1.25V+) which would subtract that much more power budget from the cores.

Your uncore is a decent percentage of 65W (88W PPT) while at higher power budgets the percentage becomes less significant. Seeing 9600X hit higher clocks both ST and MT versus 9700X shows the lower power budget is really hurting Zen 5 reviews and crimping scores (esp 9700X). Or leaving a lot more OC headroom (20%+ in some cases!) depending on your perspective.

I expect to see this clarified a bit next week when we see what Zen 5 will do out of the box for the higher TDP parts, especially the 9950X.

You never get a second chance to make a good first impression ....

 

[B-Riz]

I would assume game developer as they best know the nature of their own workload. Look up Cyberpunk settings for CPU, they have very basic option for this exposed to the user. Generally there are windows api that let you outright pin workloads to specific cores [though they are generally not recommended as you might shoot yourself in the foot] or to suggest to the kernel it should keep specific threads together on specific sets of cores. It's even mentioned in publicly available resources from AMD, but I don't have them at hand and can't look them up right now.

Process Lasso is the utility for us 12 / 16 core and more Ryzen and ThreadRipper users; I have clear benefits pinning jank UE4 games to CPU0-CPU11 in it, and it is a known thing to do here on this forum...

 

[gdansk]

You never get a second chance to make a good first impression ....

Eh. Not sure it matters. In CPU market low enough prices and volume production can fix all problems.

 

[MS_AT]

Process Lasso is the utility for us 12 / 16 core and more Ryzen and ThreadRipper users; I have clear benefits pinning jank UE4 games to CPU0-CPU11 in it, and it is a known thing to do here on this forum...

This is an alternative for users aware that Process Lasso exist, and those that are aware what a process even is I guess this is minority of the people playing games on PC That's why 7950x3d was getting so many complains for, that end users did not want this complexity.

 

[inf64]

Wccftech reports on a new memory profile by MSI that supposedly boost gaming performance on Zen 5:

MSI's AM5 Exclusive Memory Try It & High-Efficiency Mode BIOS Feature Boost AMD Ryzen 9000 CPU Gaming Performance By Up To 10%

MSI's latest AM5 BIOS features deliver up to a 10% performance boost in gaming on AMD's Ryzen 9000 Desktop CPUs.

wccftech.com

 

[B-Riz]

This is an alternative for users aware that Process Lasso exist, and those that are aware what a process even is I guess this is minority of the people playing games on PC That's why 7950x3d was getting so many complains for, that end users did not want this complexity.

I would hope new pc gamers are not getting 7950X3D right off the bat 🤣 and if they are, please come here and ask the gray beards if it is a good idea 🤣

Us here are way down the PC rabbit hole and know some tricks 😉

 

[CakeMonster]

This is an alternative for users aware that Process Lasso exist, and those that are aware what a process even is I guess this is minority of the people playing games on PC That's why 7950x3d was getting so many complains for, that end users did not want this complexity.

I am aware of that, and I'm competent enough to understand how to use it, but I hate 'solutions' like that and i absolutely DO NOT WANT IT. That's why I did not upgrade to the 7950X3D, and I was set on getting a 9950X this time around, since I expect AMD to do the same heterogenous cores with the 9950X3D. Currently I'm just waiting it out to maybe not get either since the 9950X would probably not offer much over my 7950X.

 

[Philste]

Mindfactory finally sold 10 9700X. 9600X still between 5 and 10

 

[GTracing]

Mindfactory finally sold 10 9700X. 9600X still between 5 and 10

There's just no market for them right now. Gamers should get the 7800X3D or wait for the 9800X3D. Those who need high core counts should either get the 7950X or 9950X.

 

[Thunder 57]

Nevermind.

 

[Hail The Brain Slug]

Mindfactory finally sold 10 9700X. 9600X still between 5 and 10

The best info I can find from Mindafactory for Zen 4 launch was 850 units sold in 5 days after release. I can't find a per-sku breakdown, unfortunately.

15-20 units in >24 hours is not looking good.

Zen 4 sales volume was bagged on so hard, "no one is buying zen 4" etc. Yet all of the reasons Zen 4 moved poorly are non-factors today. Cheap, prevalent motherboards, cheap prevalent DDR5, mature stable platform.

We can blame the split release for this to some extent, but without the breakdown from Zen 4 I am unsure if the 7600X and 7700X were the volume at launch, or if it was more skewed towards the 7950X.

 

[Abwx]

Idle power according to Hardwareluxx and according to Computerbase, so i guess that Computerbase s Volker Rißka is just tricking the numbers on this one since he display false numbers for a stock behaviour and instead used PBO value as being the stock value.

 

[Jan Olšan]

Idle power can depend on power plans, EXPO/JEDEC memory settings, and on the way the sensors read by HWiNFO repeat it. The sensor reading is not guaranteed to be accurate.

 

[Philste]

The best info I can find from Mindafactory for Zen 4 launch was 850 units sold in 5 days after release. I can't find a per-sku breakdown, unfortunately.

I found it:
7600X:70
7700X:270
7900X:230
7950X:280
Indeed 850 for All 4. And this was already considered as very bad, ZEN4 sold like 1:5 to ZEN3 for the first 3-4 months until the price cuts came. Platform was expensive and gaming only on par with 5800X3D.

15-20 units in >24 hours is not looking good.

The worst part is that launch week sales aren't evenly spread. The majority comes during first hours because enthusiasts are waiting for the products. I can't recall it 100%, but I think ZEN4 had like 50, 200, 180, 210 at the first day and sales start at 3pm here in germany. So my guess is at Sunday evening both ZEN5 SKUs will still be below 20, 9600X maybe even below 10 depending on how many sold right now.

 

[Hail The Brain Slug]

I found it:
7600X:70
7700X:270
7900X:230
7950X:280
Indeed 850 for All 4. And this was already considered as very bad, ZEN4 sold like 1:5 to ZEN3 for the first 3-4 months until the price cuts came. Platform was expensive and gaming only on par with 5800X3D.

The worst part is that launch week sales aren't evenly spread. The majority comes during first hours because enthusiasts are waiting for the products. I can't recall it 100%, but I think ZEN4 had like 50, 200, 180, 210 at the first day. So my guess is at Sunday evening both ZEN5 SKUs will still be below 20, 9600X maybe even below 10 depending on how many sold right now.

It will be interesting to see how well 9900X and 9950X move, but this is shaping up to be a terrible launch with regards to volume.

Really striking that Zen 4 sold that well despite $500 minimum motherboard, $300 minimum ram, and a brand new unstable platform sure to cause you hair loss.

Zen 5's poor sales are solely due to the pricing and product delivered.

 

[Abwx]

Idle power can depend on power plans, EXPO/JEDEC memory settings, and on the way the sensors read by HWiNFO repeat it. The sensor reading is not guaranteed to be accurate.

That s idle power at stock since he use DDR5600 just like Hardwareluxx, indeed he display the same power than what Hardwareluxx got once overclocking the chip.

 

[tsamolotoff]

If you run anything than JEDEC (any form of xmp/amp etc), then SOC goes into 'OC mode' and it constantly consumes 20-25W depending on memory / pcie devices config (so this is like a third of overall power budget for 9600/9700x)

 

[Hail The Brain Slug]

If you run anything than JEDEC (any form of xmp/amp etc), then SOC goes into 'OC mode' and it constantly consumes 20-25W depending on memory / pcie devices config (so this is like a third of overall power budget for 9600/9700x)

PC World pulled their launch day review because of this. They don't even know this is the reason.

They talked about how they got mysteriously 10% worse MT performane than the AMD reference data (and other reviews that came out), and after working with AMD to troubleshoot, the issue was enabling EXPO set VSOC to 1.25V when it should have been set to 1.2V. They expressed confusion at why or how this would have caused it, but confirmed that they are getting results more in line with what they should be after correcting it.

My analysis is this was causing the IOD power consumption to increase and consume more of the core power budget, hurting perf. This was especially apparent because of how power starved the cores are in the stock configuration..

 

[therealmongo]

It will be interesting to see how well 9900X and 9950X move, but this is shaping up to be a terrible launch with regards to volume.

Really striking that Zen 4 sold that well despite $500 minimum motherboard, $300 minimum ram, and a brand new unstable platform sure to cause you hair loss.

Zen 5's poor sales are solely due to the pricing and product delivered.

Or alot of people were ready to move on from DDR4 platform ....

 

[H433x0n]

Idle power according to Hardwareluxx and according to Computerbase, so i guess that Computerbase s Volker Rißka is just tricking the numbers on this one since he display false numbers for a stock behaviour and instead used PBO value as being the stock value.

Why do you always jump to anti-AMD conspiracy theories? I doubt he’s maliciously “tricking” the numbers to make AMD look bad.

SoC power is directly tied to memory kit and motherboard defaults. One could be using an Asus, the other Asrock both have different default vSoC target voltages. There’s a bunch of other explanations than a conspiracy.

 

[Abwx]

Why do you always jump to anti-AMD conspiracy theories? I doubt he’s maliciously “tricking” the numbers to make AMD look bad.

SoC power is directly tied to memory kit and motherboard defaults. One could be using an Asus, the other Asrock both have different default vSoC target voltages. There’s a bunch of other explanations than a conspiracy.

I didnt say that it was voluntary but lack of care in the tests will amount to the same conclusions, indeed there s also weird things at Hardwareluxx as well, i would think they would have spoted the discrepancies, for the time let s say that
these are non finalized bios and set ups, we ll see in the 9900X/9950X reviews.

As to anti AMD theory just look at Computerbase previous MT tests since this one has been updtated for Zen 5 release, although they corrected the weird ST tests they still moved their MT scores in favour of Intel.

Now the 253W limited 14900K match the 7950X while in their previous MT scores the 320W unlimited one was 1% behind and at 253W it was 4-5% behind, of course it couldnt be the other way around, isnt it, but guess that most people didnt even notice the shift.