Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)

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gdansk

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Feb 8, 2011
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StefanR5R

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Dec 10, 2016
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StefanR5R said:
is Strix Halo's CCD different from Turin's CCD too?
Click to expand...
adroc_thurston said:
different d2d interface.
Click to expand...
Yes, they have different interfaces active. The AMD of the past would have them both present in the same physical design, one active, one fused off. The AMD of the present though? This is why I asked.

(My other question concerning the artistic renderings was partially directed to the other poster who I cited.)

((As it turns out, the AMD of the present is doing this differently than the AMD of the past. This alone is not surprising at all, of course. But that they did it with a presumed low~ish volume part is something which is not intuitive for me at least.))
 
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LightningZ71

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It IS intuitive if you step back and look at the bigger picture.

Doing a different mask for a highly similar CCD for a product that will sell in extremely paultry numbers is financial suicide... If you don't have a solid plan to use those EXACT CCDs elsewhere.

Where could they use them? You won't see them in servers. There won't be a desktop version when it doesn't beat the existing granite ridge in anything.

I have a theory. The CCD will be used in the mobile XBox. Strix Point is not a good solution for that as it just doesn't offer the GPU grunt the product needs. Kraken is even worse. Instead, I suggest that XBox handheld will be a kind of "half halo" product. One CCD, with 3d cache as it's targeted at gaming and the VIAs are there. A single "Half" halo IOD with 20CU, 16MB MALL cache and half the DRAM bit width. It should be just about as good as the 7800x3d with something between a mobile 4050 and 4060. That's more than enough for a handheld with a three year target life.
 
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Abwx

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Apr 2, 2011
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StefanR5R said:
Yes, they have different interfaces active. The AMD of the past would have them both present in the same physical design, one active, one fused off.
Click to expand...
Or simply cut off, a 0.05mm reserved width is way enough for the purpose, anyway it s doubtfull that they used a different die for such a small difference.
 
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Joe NYC

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Jun 26, 2021
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StefanR5R said:
Yes, they have different interfaces active. The AMD of the past would have them both present in the same physical design, one active, one fused off. The AMD of the present though? This is why I asked.

(My other question concerning the artistic renderings was partially directed to the other poster who I cited.)

((As it turns out, the AMD of the present is doing this differently than the AMD of the past. This alone is not surprising at all, of course. But that they did it with a presumed low~ish volume part is something which is not intuitive for me at least.))
Click to expand...

True, but imagine this scenario:
- Strix Halo interface is identical to Zen 6
- AMD develops new desktop (AM5) IOD also compatible with this interface in 2025
- AMD switches desktops to the new IOD, Strix Halo CCD
- in 2026, when Zen 6 CCD is ready, AMD just switches CCDs

In other words, a phased approach. One side benefit: AMD can bin CCDs between Strix Halo and desktop.

What would prompt AMD to release a new IOD for desktop early? Dell. Dell wants NPU on every new PC in the near future.
 
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Thunder 57

Thunder 57

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Aug 19, 2007
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Joe NYC said:
True, but imagine this scenario:
- Strix Halo interface is identical to Zen 6
- AMD develops new desktop (AM5) IOD also compatible with this interface in 2025
- AMD switches desktops to the new IOD, Strix Halo CCD
- in 2026, when Zen 6 CCD is ready, AMD just switches CCDs

In other words, a phased approach. One side benefit: AMD can bin CCDs between Strix Halo and desktop.

What would prompt AMD to release a new IOD for desktop early? Dell. Dell wants NPU on every new PC in the near future.
Click to expand...

If I was AMD I wouldn't a crap about what Dell wants for what should be obvious reasons.
 
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Joe NYC

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Thunder 57 said:
If I was AMD I wouldn't a crap about what Dell wants for what should be obvious reasons.
Click to expand...

There was an interview with a Dell guy (sorry no link) where he said that Dell is transitioning its entire product line to be CoPilot capable, and AMD is going to be part of that strategy.

This is just speculation on my part, but it seems to me that Dell is furious at Intel. For not being competitive, for rising prices, for less discounts / incentives / bribes, for Raptor Lake degrading CPU fiasco.
 
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Tuna-Fish

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Mar 4, 2011
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LightningZ71 said:
Doing a different mask for a highly similar CCD for a product that will sell in extremely paultry numbers is financial suicide... If you don't have a solid plan to use those EXACT CCDs elsewhere.
Click to expand...
I don't think they will use this exact CCD elsewhere.

The reason they decided to spend all the money for the masks is they needed a "pipecleaner" product to test this interface, because they intend to use it for every Zen cpu going forwards. In order to take that risk with a new kind of interface, they wanted to test it in volume first, so they find all the low-probability issues you only find when you make a million+ of something. Strix Halo will probably never earn them back the mask costs, but that's okay because it's not the only reason they made this chip.
 
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Thunder 57

Thunder 57

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Joe NYC said:
This is just speculation on my part, but it seems to me that Dell is furious at Intel. For not being competitive, for rising prices, for less discounts / incentives / bribes, for Raptor Lake degrading CPU fiasco.
Click to expand...

And how furious do you think AMD is at Dell? If I was AMD HP would get first dibs, Dell last. Of course I know nothing of the market conditions these days.
 
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Thunder 57

Thunder 57

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Aug 19, 2007
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Joe NYC said:
This is just speculation on my part, but it seems to me that Dell is furious at Intel. For not being competitive, for rising prices, for less discounts / incentives / bribes, for Raptor Lake degrading CPU fiasco.
Click to expand...

And how furious do you think AMD is at Dell? If I was AMD HP would get first dibs, Dell last. Of course I know nothing of the market conditions these days.
 
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