Zen 2 APUs/"Renoir" discussion thread

[LightningZ71]

I've watched my little nephew play a few games on his 3200u and this be faster than that laptop in every way possible. It wasn't a AAA experience by any stretch, but, games at 720p, low detail were certainly usable, and that was on a slower dual core with lower graphics throughput. I expect this to do excellent duty for AMD at the low end. Also, given the likely very small size of the die, it should allow them to have credible volume at the low end and allow more affordable 2 in 1 designs to proliferate as well.

I still think that AMD could make a good case for a credible market for uSFF boxes with what is essentially the Steam Deck processor with higher thermals and power draw with a target of playable 1080p. I think it's coming when they get enough volume with Rembrandt to better cover channel demands.

 

[burninatortech4]

I still don't completely understand why Mendocino has any business being in >$500 USD laptops when the 5400u, 5425u, and 5625u can be found in machines in this range. Cezanne is a much faster chip than Mendocino.

 

[eek2121]

I still don't completely understand why Mendocino has any business being in >$500 USD laptops when the 5400u, 5425u, and 5625u can be found in machines in this range. Cezanne is a much faster chip than Mendocino.

I haven’t really seen any Cezanne U chips in that price bracket. The cheapest 5400u laptop I found was $670. The new Zen 2 parts target $400-$700 laptops. They also use DDR5 and are 6nm, so you can’t compare them to ‘classic’ Zen 2.

 

[LightningZ71]

Yields on cezanne, barcelo, and rembrandt are likely good enough to leave precious few chips so crippled that they can only be used as quad core processors without resorting to crippling good chips just to satisfy volume promises. Also, there are precious few cases where the 5400u will be better than the likely cheaper to produce 5500u in a given product. Lucienne holds up VERY well against the reduced capability cezanne parts.

What mendocino does for AMD is allow them to finally sunset vega o.g. It gives them a low end chip to replace Dali with vega 3 and the dwindling pinnacle ridge chips in the channel. (There is actually a shader model feature upgrade between pinnacle and renoir as renoir shares the VEGA VII design and not the 56/64 design.). They further divorce themselves from GloFo. That's Mendocino's purpose in the stack. It also helps them better align with Windows giving them a feature target baseline of Zen2 + RDNA2 plus brings pluton to the low end.

 

[SteinFG]

100 mm² die size https://www.amd.com/en/product/12201
I want to see the dieshot

 

[jpiniero]

100 mm² die size https://www.amd.com/en/product/12201
I want to see the dieshot

Too big I think given TSMC N6 prices and the competition. You can see why they are trying to brand Ryzen 5.

I imagine it's a lot faster than the 14 nm Atoms but do OEMs care?

 

[LightningZ71]

In the end, it will be facing Jasper Lake and AlderLake-N. A Tremont Quad should be able to handle the dual core Athlon well enough. AlderLake-N in a quad should be close enough to the Ryzen 3 part and in a dual-quad should match the ryzen part. Zen 2 was ballpark around Skylake in performance per mhz in most cases, as is Gracemont. Mendocino may have a higher single core boost and 1T performance, but, AlderLake - N with 8 Gracemont cores should easily outpace Mendocino in anything that needs more than 4 threads. However, this is the bottom of the market, so, very few will really care. On the iGPU side, it's going to have to depend on the number of EUs we see. TigerLake-B has a 16EU layout and a 32EU layout. The 16EU would probably struggle to keep up with a 2CU RDNA2 part, but the 32EU part may just prove better, provided that it has sufficient power available to clock high enough. Jasper Lake had a similar number of EUs.

In other words, this is competition for Celeron/Pentium - Intel Processor N5XXX/N6XXX/N7XXX through and through. Dali already had problems with Jasper Lake. It was going to be at a substantial disadvantage against AlderLake N.

 

[DrMrLordX]

@LightningZ71

If only Alder Lake-N were available now. Even when it does finally show up, it's only going into Chromebooks (apparently).

 

[dark zero]

@LightningZ71

If only Alder Lake-N were available now. Even when it does finally show up, it's only going into Chromebooks (apparently).

Actually the Quads yes, but the Octas are another story. It should be strong enough to deliver decent performance and I don't be even surprised if there are madlads adding a basic dGPU since Intel's one is not enough good.

 

[jpiniero]

Eluktronics Inc. RP-15 - Geekbench

Benchmark results for an Eluktronics Inc. RP-15 with an AMD Ryzen 5 7725HS processor.

browser.geekbench.com

7725HS spotted. Yes, Renoir is joining in the rebranding fun.

 

[Thibsie]

The more the merrier xD

 

[SteinFG]

Seems like it's fake. Today 6 new cpus were uploaded on geekbench: 7300X (4C zen4), 7800X (10C zen4), 7730G (5700G renamed?), 7725HS (8C zen2), 7715H (4C zen+), 7830U (8C zen3).

I believe that 0 of them are real leaks. Someone decided to do a little trolling.

 

[jpiniero]

AMD's decoder thing did mention Zen+ so it's not shocking to see it get the rebrand if OEMs are still interested in selling Picasso.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Seems like it's fake. Today 6 new cpus were uploaded on geekbench: 7300X (4C zen4), 7800X (10C zen4), 7730G (5700G renamed?), 7725HS (8C zen2), 7715H (4C zen+), 7830U (8C zen3).

I believe that 0 of them are real leaks. Someone decided to do a little trolling.

AMD's decoder thing did mention Zen+ so it's not shocking to see it get the rebrand if OEMs are still interested in selling Picasso.

Sigh.

I'm getting too old to play "magic model number decoder wheel" in my head anymore. I may just stick with Intel from now on out, at least they have understandable branding.


(and that's saying something - all of my personal machines have been AMD Zen-family boxes for the last, well, ever since Zen 1 launched.)

 

[moinmoin]

I'm getting too old to play "magic model number decoder wheel" in my head anymore. I may just stick with Intel from now on out, at least they have understandable branding.

I guess you already memorized which models are true RTL and which ones are refreshed ADL ones.

 

[DrMrLordX]

I guess you already memorized which models are true RTL and which ones are refreshed ADL ones.

That one's not hard actually! On the Intel side:

3 Raptor Lake SKUs (6 if you count the KF parts)
Everything else is Alder Lake

Raptor Lake may as well not exist for the majority of the consumer market.

 

[moinmoin]

That one's not hard actually!

If one is already aware of that anyway. But if not what will point out the difference?

 

[DrMrLordX]

If one is already aware of that anyway. But if not what will point out the difference?

Nothing, sadly! But people are going to figure it out real quick if they already own Alder Lake and wind up buying another as an "upgrade".

 

[NostaSeronx]

Mendocino has released in general availability;
Store link: https://a.co/d/c6Qdcrf
News link: https://hothardware.com/news/acer-announces-aspire-3-laptops-amd-mendocino

I assume more will launch later on in the month. (Lenevo's corpie website implied they shipped 11m/14d/22y)

 

[moinmoin]

At $399 for the base model seems somewhat expensive, though LPDDR5 probably makes less unlikely.

 

[SteinFG]

Those kind of low-power laptops go on sale very often, so having this "base price" is kind of ok, as long as it's not for a long time.
Currently, the best laptop chip in 300 dollar range is i3-1115G4, and AMD compares Mendocino to it in their own slides.

 

[jpiniero]

I wouldn't be surprised if you could get a BF laptop deal with the i5 1135G7 at $399 actually. I think people would prefer the i5 Tiger Lake but at the same time... if someone bought this machine they are unlikely to be unhappy with the performance. The 128 GB of space is a bigger deal IMO.

 

[VirtualLarry]

If you've been watching the Hot Deals forum for the last two weeks or three, there have been a number of juice Gateway / Walmart laptop deals that haven't been bad.

TigerLake 1135G7 / 16GB / 512GB / 15.6" FHD $279
TigerLake 1115G4 / 4GB / 128GB / 15.6" FHD w/mouse + sleeve (inside box?) $149
AMD 3200U (or was it 3500U?) 8GB / 256GB / 15.6" FHD $199

One of those might have been 14", I haven't been fully keeping track.

I've availed myself of all three Gateway deals.

 

[LightningZ71]

Keep in mind, Mendocino is SINGLE channel DRAM. Those i5-1135G7 laptops have a stronger iGPU, more total memory throughput with lower latency (and, if they have soldered LPDDR4X, the same subchannel features of DDR5), faster individual cores, AVX-512 (if it matters) and can support Thunderbolt (I doubt you'll see a Mendocino laptop support USB4). For any comparison between the 1135G7 and either of the quad core Mendocinos, Tiger Lake would win or draw at the absolute worst.

That specific Gateway deal though... that laptop gets absolutely lambasted for shoddy build quality and falling apart with minimal usage. It would have to come with a solid extended warranty for me to be interested.

 

[Asterox]

He mentions many times in testing various hardware, with this or that CPU-s you will not have problems checking Mail etc."I hope he's not trying to be a bad comedian".I can check Mail without any problem(Gmail)on old PC(Asrock AM2+ motherboard doesn't want to die)with Dual Core Athlon II from 2010.

Let's get back to the topic, hm interesting combination or as expected Zen2+RDNA2 iGPU+LPDDR 5 system memory.

Well, you can fit that under 7000 label because Zen 4/7000 Desktop CPU series use identical iGPU.