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"You can't walk at graduation because...."

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Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
24,514
44
91
Originally posted by: rasczak
Or an asshole school board, principal, and vice principal. maybe they should get cancer just to see what it feels like, then die from it.

Yes. Let's wish death on people. That'll show that we're taking the high road. :roll:

It's amusing to me that so many people miss the fact that HS graduation being nothing but a "dog and pony show" is a double-edged sword. If it's just an unimportant show, then it also shouldn't be so bloody important to the girl.

ZV
 

Jack Ryan

Golden Member
Jun 11, 2004
1,353
0
0
While I believe it would be NICE of the school to let her walk, I don't think it is WRONG that she doesn't if that is the rule.
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,213
12
81
I feel bad for her, but I'm perfectly ok with the decision for her not to walk.
 

SacrosanctFiend

Diamond Member
Oct 2, 2004
4,269
0
0
Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
Participating the graduation ceremonies implicitly implies that you have completed the requirements. She has not - she can walk on the next cycle.

The next cycle? Assuming she finishes during the summer, the next cycle would be 10 months down the road. She likely won't be a student at that school during that time, and I wouldn't put it past the school to say "We don't allow non-students to walk during graduation."

Honestly, I don't see what the big deal is.

Edit: Just do what most colleges (and my high school) does, and put an asterisk next to her name in the graduation booklet stating that she won't be graduating until the end of summer.
 

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
24,514
44
91
Originally posted by: PaulNEPats
A high school diploma means shit these days. Just let her walk.

Alternately, "A high school diploma means shit these days. She shouldn't be so fixated on an empty ceremony."

As I said, it cuts both ways.

ZV
 

isekii

Lifer
Mar 16, 2001
28,578
3
81
Why not let her walk.

I know in my highschool, if you were to fail a class you were allowed to walk, but you just didn't get a diploma until you completed summer school.

Also it's not like she failed the course, the girls battling through cancer. Some of these people that are on the BoE are pretty inconsiderate.
 

compman25

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2006
3,767
2
81
Too bad the cancer didn't take her legs, then the schools decision would be real easy. No legs, no walkie.
 

kalrith

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2005
6,628
7
81
Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
Participating the graduation ceremonies implicitly implies that you have completed the requirements. She has not - she can walk on the next cycle.

Our school allowed students to walk who had failed a class that semester and would make it up over the summer. Not a single person received a diploma until after the graduation; we were all handed an empty diploma binder.

If it's high school, they probably won't have another commencement ceremony until next May, so I think it's pretty stupid to not let her walk.
 

Linflas

Lifer
Jan 30, 2001
15,395
78
91
Originally posted by: isekii
Why not let her walk.

I know in my highschool, if you were to fail a class you were allowed to walk, but you just didn't get a diploma until you completed summer school.

Also it's not like she failed the course, the girls battling through cancer. Some of these people that are on the BoE are pretty inconsiderate.

Once a government entity makes a decision they will defend it to the hilt no matter how wrong headed it turns out to be. For some odd reason it just seems to be the nature of the beast.
 
Feb 19, 2001
20,155
23
81
Originally posted by: waggy
Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
Participating the graduation ceremonies implicitly implies that you have completed the requirements. She has not - she can walk on the next cycle.

yeap. i know its cold but i agree.

Uh I have friends who are graduating next semester, but they are allowed to walk. In college, you can technically walk whenever you want really.
 
Feb 6, 2007
16,432
1
81
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Life is not measured by how much work we do, it's measured by the results we get. She may well have worked hard, but if the results aren't there, then she shouldn't walk.

Is it harsh that the school won't let her walk? Absolutely. Can it be reasonably argued to be unfair? Absolutely. But welcome to reality. The real world is a lot rougher than just missing a graduation walk. No matter how much we may want it to be, reality is not a warm and fuzzy place and coddling our children only serves to ill-prepare them for life after school.

You aren't the first person in the thread to articulate this thought, I'm just quoting you because it was at the end.

The thing is, there is an important distinction to be made here. There are two pieces to graduation. The first, a diploma, is the physical proof that you have completed the requirements mandated by the school district and board of education to attain a certain rank or status (in this case, high school graduate). The second piece, the graduation ceremony, is an event held to honor those who have completed their course of study. The two are mutually exclusive; being allowed to walk does not specifically indicate that you are a graduate any more than having the diploma means that you will get to walk at the ceremony (I actually knew someone in high school who completed the requirements and got their diploma, but because they were caught with drugs on the last day of school, they were barred from walking at commencement).

I liken the scenario to a marriage. Anyone can hold a marriage ceremony. You have gay weddings in states where gay marriage is not recognized, you have pagan handfastings, you have polygymous marriages, and all sorts of non-traditional weddings performed around the country that are not legally recognized by the state. You have to apply for a marriage license to be married in the eyes of the law, but it's not required to have a wedding ceremony. Similarly, you can get married by a justice of the peace without having a fancy ceremony around it. The ceremony and the legal paper, though they often exist together, are mutually exclusive.

So really, walking at commencement is strictly a ceremonial act. It is an event honoring those who have put in hard work to attain a particular goal. It is entirely up to the school to decide who should and shouldn't walk at commencement, there is no question about that. But I have to question the value in stopping someone from being honored at a purely ceremonial event when she is scheduled to complete the requirements within a few weeks. Clearly she has put in the work, and is set to have all the requirements completed; it's not as though she is returning for another year. She, through no fault of her own, contracted a life-threatening disease, and in spite of that obstacle, has managed to nearly complete her course of study. She's probably putting in more work than the majority of graduating seniors there; is it really harmful to the school if she is allowed to participate in this ceremony?

I recently attended a college graduation. Students who had units left to complete were allowed to walk across the stage; their names were marked with an asterisk in the program. I recall a similar situation at my own graduation. And I know that at both the graduations I walked in, we were not given our diplomas; those were mailed out later. When you divorce the legal side (diploma) from the ceremonial (walking the stage), there's not much rationale to prevent her from being allowed to participate. It's a misapplication of the idea that rules should never be broken. Let her walk, put an asterisk by her name in the program and be done with it.
 

jman19

Lifer
Nov 3, 2000
11,225
664
126
Originally posted by: mugs
We've had this discussion here before... and most people here have no sympathy for people like her.

Personally, I don't see the problem with letting her walk since she'll finish up over the summer. My college allowed that. I see no value in being so legalistic.

(Edited for clarity)

Yep agreed 100%. My college allowed this as well. What a bunch of tools.
 

middlehead

Diamond Member
Jul 11, 2004
4,573
2
81
Both my high school and college allowed people to go through the ceremony if they were going to finish their credits in the summer. Waiting til Fall would get you pushed back, but Summer oughta be fine.
 

Kelvrick

Lifer
Feb 14, 2001
18,422
5
81
They should let her walk. The UC Davis graduations I've been to all had a bunch of students that walked who were finishing in the summer.
 

bobsmith1492

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2004
3,875
3
81
Heck I walked at uni graduation last May and didn't finish for real until mid-September. I finally got my degree a month ago. :p
 

zerocool1

Diamond Member
Jun 7, 2002
4,486
1
81
femaven.blogspot.com
Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
Participating the graduation ceremonies implicitly implies that you have completed the requirements. She has not - she can walk on the next cycle.

my college would let people walk if they are enrolled in summer school to complete the remaining requirements.
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
100,363
17,924
126
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Originally posted by: PaulNEPats
A high school diploma means shit these days. Just let her walk.

Alternately, "A high school diploma means shit these days. She shouldn't be so fixated on an empty ceremony."

As I said, it cuts both ways.

ZV

Except for the cancer bit. She might not have much longer and it is something she would like to do. That is not asking for a lot from her part.

It would be neat if her class refuses to walk on stage if this doesn't get rectified.
 

RandomFool

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2001
3,913
0
71
www.loofmodnar.com
She should be allowed to walk. There were a few kids my my high school who walked and had to finish over the summer. They just got an empty diploma holder.

It's not going to mean much if she has to wait another year after she's finished and graduates but a bunch of people she doesn't know all that well. Half the fun of graduation is celebrating with your friends.
 

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
24,514
44
91
Originally posted by: Atomic Playboy
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Life is not measured by how much work we do, it's measured by the results we get. She may well have worked hard, but if the results aren't there, then she shouldn't walk.

Is it harsh that the school won't let her walk? Absolutely. Can it be reasonably argued to be unfair? Absolutely. But welcome to reality. The real world is a lot rougher than just missing a graduation walk. No matter how much we may want it to be, reality is not a warm and fuzzy place and coddling our children only serves to ill-prepare them for life after school.

You aren't the first person in the thread to articulate this thought, I'm just quoting you because it was at the end.

The thing is, there is an important distinction to be made here. There are two pieces to graduation. The first, a diploma, is the physical proof that you have completed the requirements mandated by the school district and board of education to attain a certain rank or status (in this case, high school graduate). The second piece, the graduation ceremony, is an event held to honor those who have completed their course of study. The two are mutually exclusive; being allowed to walk does not specifically indicate that you are a graduate any more than having the diploma means that you will get to walk at the ceremony (I actually knew someone in high school who completed the requirements and got their diploma, but because they were caught with drugs on the last day of school, they were barred from walking at commencement).

I liken the scenario to a marriage. Anyone can hold a marriage ceremony. You have gay weddings in states where gay marriage is not recognized, you have pagan handfastings, you have polygymous marriages, and all sorts of non-traditional weddings performed around the country that are not legally recognized by the state. You have to apply for a marriage license to be married in the eyes of the law, but it's not required to have a wedding ceremony. Similarly, you can get married by a justice of the peace without having a fancy ceremony around it. The ceremony and the legal paper, though they often exist together, are mutually exclusive.

So really, walking at commencement is strictly a ceremonial act. It is an event honoring those who have put in hard work to attain a particular goal. It is entirely up to the school to decide who should and shouldn't walk at commencement, there is no question about that. But I have to question the value in stopping someone from being honored at a purely ceremonial event when she is scheduled to complete the requirements within a few weeks. Clearly she has put in the work, and is set to have all the requirements completed; it's not as though she is returning for another year. She, through no fault of her own, contracted a life-threatening disease, and in spite of that obstacle, has managed to nearly complete her course of study. She's probably putting in more work than the majority of graduating seniors there; is it really harmful to the school if she is allowed to participate in this ceremony?

I recently attended a college graduation. Students who had units left to complete were allowed to walk across the stage; their names were marked with an asterisk in the program. I recall a similar situation at my own graduation. And I know that at both the graduations I walked in, we were not given our diplomas; those were mailed out later. When you divorce the legal side (diploma) from the ceremonial (walking the stage), there's not much rationale to prevent her from being allowed to participate. It's a misapplication of the idea that rules should never be broken. Let her walk, put an asterisk by her name in the program and be done with it.

Well said, and I actually agree with you.

However, while it's not harmful to the school to allow her to participate, it is likewise not harmful to her if the school does not allow her to participate.

In the end, while I think the school board is being overly uptight in this case, I think that it's damn silly that she is making a big deal of it. Essentially, I believe the girl and her mother are making a mountain out of a molehill. It's an empty ceremony. It means nothing. She should get over it. If she can't shrug off something this small, she's going to have big problems when she hits the real world.

ZV
 

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
24,514
44
91
Originally posted by: sdifox
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Originally posted by: PaulNEPats
A high school diploma means shit these days. Just let her walk.

Alternately, "A high school diploma means shit these days. She shouldn't be so fixated on an empty ceremony."

As I said, it cuts both ways.

ZV

Except for the cancer bit. She might not have much longer and it is something she would like to do. That is not asking for a lot from her part.

It would be neat if her class refuses to walk on stage if this doesn't get rectified.

Nothing in the article suggests that her cancer is terminal, and you can bet that the writer would have mentioned that in order to enhance the emotional appeal if it were so.

Additionally, the fact that she wants to do it does not address my point that she shouldn't be so fixated on an empty ceremony. How long she has to live is irrelevant, logically, to my point. Divorce emotion from your thinking and base this off of pure logic.

ZV
 

moshquerade

No Lifer
Nov 1, 2001
61,504
12
56
Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus
Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
Participating the graduation ceremonies implicitly implies that you have completed the requirements. She has not - she can walk on the next cycle.

She might not LIVE to the next cycle, on top of that it's a MEDICAL reason for it. It's NOT because she failed classes, or slacked. It's because she has been going through cancer treatments. Let her walk, and participate.

let her walk. let her shake the hand of the superintendent, the principal, and whomever else is important, and be handed a diploma case with no actual diploma in it.
sometimes the hardasses have to stop being hardass about everything.
 

moshquerade

No Lifer
Nov 1, 2001
61,504
12
56
Originally posted by: isekii
Why not let her walk.

I know in my highschool, if you were to fail a class you were allowed to walk, but you just didn't get a diploma until you completed summer school.
yep, same here.

 
Feb 6, 2007
16,432
1
81
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Well said, and I actually agree with you.

However, while it's not harmful to the school to allow her to participate, it is likewise not harmful to her if the school does not allow her to participate.

In the end, while I think the school board is being overly uptight in this case, I think that it's damn silly that she is making a big deal of it. Essentially, I believe the girl and her mother are making a mountain out of a molehill. It's an empty ceremony. It means nothing. She should get over it. If she can't shrug off something this small, she's going to have big problems when she hits the real world.

ZV

I agree with you as well, in that I always found commencement to be a rather pointless waste of a perfectly good weekend. I didn't want to attend either of mine, but the family made me go (the whole "we came up from California to see you, so you're damn sure going to walk across that stage" line). I thought it was an empty ceremony and it didn't appeal to me. Obviously, it holds an appeal for some people though; otherwise, why would my family care that I walked?

It sounds like it holds an appeal for this girl and her family. Whether or not we think it is a hollow ceremony is irrelevant; she is the one graduating, not us. If she wants to walk in an empty ceremony, if her family wants to watch her walk in an empty ceremony, I believe they should be allowed to. It's not our place to say that because we feel the ceremony is meaningless that she should quit her bitching. The whole crux of the issue is whether the administration's policy is a good one, and I personally believe that it is too strict for something that, ultimately, means virtually nothing apart from giving the family an opportunity to celebrate an accomplishment.

Let her walk.
 

jjones

Lifer
Oct 9, 2001
15,424
2
0
The school's being stupid. It's just a ceremony and it's not like she doesn't have extenuating circumstances. Another reflection on the idiocy of no tolerance policies.