YAYAGT - Pick amongst these home defense shotguns

[Jeeebus]

You guys talking about guaranteed hits and stray pellets do know that at 30 feet out (farther than the likely home defense scenario) the spread on decent 00 buck is maybe 4-6 inches, right?

 

[Kelvrick]

Um, Um, Bullshit!

Quit spreading garbage junior

Bullshit for who? Someone who buys a shotgun and shoots it once and puts it away, someone who trains with a shotgun for home defense or all the people between that?

I personally have a 930 spx with a rifle stock. With all the stuff I've put through that 930, I put more faith in that gas system than my arm.

 

[HumblePie]

It should not be assumed a lethal weapon, or any weapon, is the best defense.

Umm duh, that's why it's part of a home defense STRATEGY. Not one part. Best home defense has many layers and parts to it.

Alarm systems, bright lights on motion detectors, good locks, actual trained guard animals (dogs, geese, or whatever), and possibly a weapon when all that fails.

You don't just take one items from a home defense setup and hope that alone is enough to keep you safe. A gun is just one part of keeping you safe.

Speaking of which a shotgun has something going for it an AR doesn't have. Especially apump shotgun. The sound of a pump shotgun racking a round is usually unmistakable and has in the past been proven enough of a deterrent to make a would be burglar or home invader flee.

Which is why a pump action shotgun >>> than an AR 15 in less collateral damage. Chances of injuring innocent bystanders when no rounds are fired is ZERO.

 

[bignateyk]

This ^_^

Also I'd take an AR over a shotgun for HD.

lolwat?

I have both, and I'd never take the AR over the shotgun for HD.

 

[schneiderguy]

lolwat?

I have both, and I'd never take the AR over the shotgun for HD.

Why not?

30 rounds vs 5-8 rounds. AR wins
Recoil. AR wins
Overall length. AR wins
Terminal ballistics. Tie
Risk of over-penetration. AR wins
Reliability. AR wins
Time for follow up shots. AR wins
Ability to mount red dot or light. AR wins
Accuracy. AR wins
Range. AR wins

AR: 10 Shotgun: 0

 

[nick1985]

All you guys ripping on schneiderguy for an AR for home defense are actually kind of/sort of wrong.

There is ongoing debates on sigforum, ar15 forum, etc. about what is better for home defense. There are actually a lot of good arguments as to why the AR15 is better. Dismissing it as nonsense right off the bat is silly, there is a good case for it.

That said, I have my Beretta 1201FP semi-auto shotgun loaded under my bed, loaded with Centurion home defense loads of course

:thumbsup:

 

[HumblePie]

Why not?

30 rounds vs 5-8 rounds. AR wins
Recoil. AR wins
Overall length. AR wins
Terminal ballistics. Tie
Risk of over-penetration. AR wins
Reliability. AR wins
Time for follow up shots. AR wins
Ability to mount red dot or light. AR wins
Accuracy. AR wins
Range. AR wins

AR: 10 Shotgun: 0

Why would you need 30 rounds in the first place for HD? You holding off a zombie horde or something?

Recoil, again how many shots do you need to stop anyone in your house?

Length? LOLWUT???? Also personally I rather have a heavier gun as HD. Heavy guns are much more stable and easier to aim. Especially for women.

Penetration? Yah for shots actually fired unless you change the loadout of a shotgun. Risk of bird shot or sand bags penetrating anything is ridiculously lower than anything an AR will fire. Assuming shots need to be fired. Again AR15 doesn't have a distinctive sound to make home invaders flee like a shotfun which means a shotgun user may never need to fire a shot in the first place.

Time to follow up shots? How many shots do you need to deter a burglar?

Red light and scope?? Are you serious? At the dead of night I don't need a scope on a gun in my house. Nor a red light. Although most shotgun can mount those just as well. I have a friend with a sawed off shotgun with pistol grip, laser sights, and scope.

Accuracy? Maybe at 200 yards+ out. But I don't remember having a single room in my house that big. In close quarters you are more likely to hit with shotgun spray than an AR. Especially for people who aren't strong and used to handling guns like most house wives.

Range? Seriously? A shotgun and AR15 only need to go usually at most 15 feet across a room or hallway. Usually less. Who cares about range at this point when it comes to home defense.





your arguments are retarded.

 

[JS80]

Why not?

30 rounds vs 5-8 rounds. AR wins
Recoil. AR wins
Overall length. AR wins
Terminal ballistics. Tie
Risk of over-penetration. AR wins
Reliability. AR wins
Time for follow up shots. AR wins
Ability to mount red dot or light. AR wins
Accuracy. AR wins
Range. AR wins

AR: 10 Shotgun: 0

I shot my buddy's AR-15 the other day at the range in LA, apparently in CA it's illegal for the mag to have more than 10 bullets, plus there's some stupid reload mechanism where you need to unload the empty with another clip. So in CA, I'd say the AR-15 is a useless home defense weapon.

 

[schneiderguy]

Why would you need 30 rounds in the first place for HD? You holding off a zombie horde or something?

Against multiple attackers 5-8 rounds is not sufficient.

Recoil, again how many shots do you need to stop anyone in your house?

As many as it takes. There's no such thing as a guaranteed one shot kill.

Length? LOLWUT???? Also personally I rather have a heavier gun as HD. Heavy guns are much more stable and easier to aim. Especially for women.

Shorter = easier to maneuver. Heavier guns are not more stable and easier to aim, they just make your arms tired. Especially for women.

Penetration? Yah for shots actually fired unless you change the loadout of a shotgun. Risk of bird shot or sand bags penetrating anything is ridiculously lower than anything an AR will fire. Assuming shots need to be fired. Again AR15 doesn't have a distinctive sound to make home invaders flee like a shotfun which means a shotgun user may never need to fire a shot in the first place.

Good luck using bird shot or sandbags to actually, you know, stop (ie kill) someone that is trying to kill you. Bird shot is NOT lethal enough to use in an HD gun.

Racking a shotgun gives away your position. If you want to give the intruder a warning shout "I have a gun". Racking a shotgun is not going to make someone magically shit the pants and run away.

Time to follow up shots? How many shots do you need to deter a burglar?

Again, as many shots as I need.

Red light and scope?? Are you serious? At the dead of night I don't need a scope on a gun in my house. Nor a red light. Although most shotgun can mount those just as well. I have a friend with a sawed off shotgun with pistol grip, laser sights, and scope.

Red DOT and light. So, you know, you can actually aim in the dark? Red dots are quicker than ironsights.

They're easier to mount on ARs.

Accuracy? Maybe at 200 yards+ out. But I don't remember having a single room in my house that big. In close quarters you are more likely to hit with shotgun spray than an AR. Especially for people who aren't strong and used to handling guns like most house wives.

Range? Seriously? A shotgun and AR15 only need to go usually at most 15 feet across a room or hallway. Usually less. Who cares about range at this point when it comes to home defense.

Shotguns with buckshot have a effective range of about 30 yards. I'd rather have the extra range and accuracy and not need it than not have it and need it.

your arguments are retarded.

Your arguments boil down to "I only need 1 round and the sound of my fuddtastic pump shotgun racking for HD so the gun that is obviously superior sux lol"

 

[schneiderguy]

I shot my buddy's AR-15 the other day at the range in LA, apparently in CA it's illegal for the mag to have more than 10 bullets, plus there's some stupid reload mechanism where you need to unload the empty with another clip. So in CA, I'd say the AR-15 is a useless home defense weapon.

I would still rather have a fixed magazine AR15 with 10+1 rounds than a pump shotgun with half of that.

Realistically with either if you need to reload you're probably dead.

 

[pcgeek11]

So you'll have stray pellets flying around that will sail through drywall and kill your neighbors. Sounds good

So an AR round won't go through drywall? Or kill a neighbor? There is a chance with any firearm for wall penetration etc. If a shotgun pellet goes through the outer wall of a house the chance of it doing any serious damage is almost nil.

Apartment is a whole different story. I would still select a pump shotgun with low brass shell.

 

[pcgeek11]

There is zero chance of that happening.

OK then.

 

[schneiderguy]

So an AR round won't go through drywall? Or kill a neighbor? There is a chance with any firearm for wall penetration etc. If a shotgun pellet goes through the outer wall of a house the chance of it doing any serious damage is almost nil.

Apartment is a whole different story. I would still select a pump shotgun with low brass shell.

The .223 will have less penetration in humans after going through a wall = less chance of killing someone.

 

[pcgeek11]

You guys talking about guaranteed hits and stray pellets do know that at 30 feet out (farther than the likely home defense scenario) the spread on decent 00 buck is maybe 4-6 inches, right?

Yes I am aware. That is why the short barrel and # 4 shot. You can have stray pellets as they will hit things and deflect.

 

[Eli]

It should not be assumed a lethal weapon, or any weapon, is the best defense.

LOL...

So when someone breaks into your house and points a gun at you, are you going to ask them if they'd like some tea and try and defuse the situation?

 

[JulesMaximus]

Ah ATOT...arguing about things that nobody here will ever experience anyway. :whiste:

 

[Jeeebus]

hmm there's an FFL selling a new 11-87P at a great price about 20 minutes from me. Might be destiny. Gonna go check it out maybe over the weekend.

 

[pcgeek11]

The .223 will have less penetration in humans after going through a wall = less chance of killing someone.

As I stated 18.5 inch barrel, #4 pellets. Most house exterior walls will contain the pellets unless you live in a tar paper shack. Your chart is for 00 buckshot through an interior wall.

An AR isn't useless. I just would not make it my first choice. We disagree, and I'm good with that.

 

[TheNinja]

To the OP, I think any of those will work. I personally have a Mossberg 500 pump with the 20" barrel. I like the 20" barrel b/c it holds 2 more shots and I think it looks cooler . I added a shell holder on the stock (not totally necessary) and a Streamlight TLR-1s on the front (a light on a HD gun is a MUST have imo). The light not only allows you to identify a target a light like the one I have with 160 lumens can effectively blind them when they turn to look, giving you a second or two advantage over them.

Also, people, for the last time, a 18.5" barrel shotgun is not going to "spray" a giant cone of death at 10-20 feet (which is likely the distance of an encounter). You still have to aim the thing. Granted if you have buckshot you have a better chance of hitting b/c you have multiple bullets. Of course it really comes down to how confident and trained you are on a gun.

If you want a better HD Shotty, go pay for a special license and try to get the 14" barrel, you might get slightly better spread (which has been debatable) , but it's easier to manuever. Not worth the hassle in California IMO though.

 

[Malak]

LOL...

So when someone breaks into your house and points a gun at you, are you going to ask them if they'd like some tea and try and defuse the situation?

I am not worried about that ever happening.

 

[pcgeek11]

As for 12 gauge home defense ammo, anything between #4 and #00 buck shot will work fine. The #4 buck shot would be like getting hit in the chest 20 times by an 22 rifle! At 15 feet the pattern will be about 4" wide from an 20 inch barrel. Slightly larger for an 18.5 inch barrel.

I usually get a pattern of about 8 inches using 2 3/4 in Federal # 4 buckshot with an 18.5 inch barrel at 10 yards.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Bullshit for who? Someone who buys a shotgun and shoots it once and puts it away, someone who trains with a shotgun for home defense or all the people between that?

I personally have a 930 spx with a rifle stock. With all the stuff I've put through that 930, I put more faith in that gas system than my arm.

Just relaying my experience from 40yrs of shooting shotguns. I've owned many auto's and pumps from all the major manufacturers and fired thousands of rounds. I have NEVER once had a pump jam or misfire, and I have never had an auto that didn't jam at least once. Modern auto's are better than earlier ones, but I have yet to find one that wasn't picky with ammo. I've had Brownings, Beretta's (my favs), Bennellis, Remington 1187's and 1100's and Mossbergs. I will admit I have a Beretta that as long as you feed it quality high brass shells it never jams, but even it has jammed on me with cheap low brass ammo.

And when an auto jams it's usually because the powerfull ejection action rips the brass off the sleeve leaving the sleeve in the barrel causing the next round to wedge partially into the chamber. Not the type of jam that can be fixed by just recycling the weapon. You have to use some type of tool to fish the sleeve out of the chamber. Definately would ruin your day in a defensive situation

 

[preslove]

OP, you don't need a gun for home defense. Just use your ms paint skills to make scary pictures of monster spiders & laminate them on the side of your house. You'll scare away all ne'er-do-wells.

 

[Specop 007]

Um, Um, Bullshit!

Quit spreading garbage junior

No, thats actually true. Short stroking is a real problem under stress.

 

[Jeeebus]

OP, you don't need a gun for home defense. Just use your ms paint skills to make scary pictures of monster spiders & laminate them on the side of your house. You'll scare away all ne'er-do-wells.

Why would you assume this hasn't been done yet? All windows on my house contain a pressed on MS Paint of my rippling pecs, llamas, and various other assorted scary images. The gun is only if someone ignores these warnings and still breaks in - you know that guy MUST be crazy and needs to be put down.