YAMT: Dueling Demonstrations in Front of Mosque

[Orignal Earl]

No comment by the mosque supporters on this?

She's entitled to her opinion like everyone else

From the first memorial ceremonies I attended at Ground Zero, I have always been moved by the site; it means something to be close to where my mother may be buried, it brings some peace. That is why the prospect of a mosque near Ground Zero -- or a church or a synagogue or any religious or nationalistic monument or symbol -- troubles me.

 

[Infohawk]

She's entitled to her opinion like everyone else

Yeah but as Jaskalas suggests if someone non-muslim agrees with her the raving types come out and scream "bigot", etc. There are plenty of moderate muslims who the think the mosque location is not a good idea. But it's easier for stupid people to yell "bigot" than to make arguments or have a rational debate so they downplay that fact.

 

[Sclamoz]

Yeah but as Jaskalas suggests if someone non-muslim agrees with her the raving types come out and scream "bigot", etc. There are plenty of moderate muslims who the think the mosque location is not a good idea. But it's easier for stupid people to yell "bigot" than to make arguments or have a rational debate so they downplay that fact.

No, when you compare building a mosque to building a nazi monument THAT makes you a bigot. A Newt Gingrich type bigot. Or when you assume a black person is a muslim and try and fight him, that makes you a bigot. It's utterly pathetic that you whine about this after some of the things you've said.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Now there's a moderate Muslim we can stand with. Shame we're all personally attacked and slandered as bigots by the American hating Left of P&N if we support Neda Bolourchi instead of the Mosque's builder, who garners headlines such as this:

Ground Zero Imam Says U.S. Worse than al-Qaeda

She is Muslim in the way that she believes it is part of her culture. She was born into a secular family and does not practice.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Yeah but as Jaskalas suggests if someone non-muslim agrees with her the raving types come out and scream "bigot", etc. There are plenty of moderate muslims who the think the mosque location is not a good idea. But it's easier for stupid people to yell "bigot" than to make arguments or have a rational debate so they downplay that fact.

Links to your plenty of moderates, not that I can't believe it, I just like to back things up with facts.
And some links to these stupid people too

 

[Infohawk]

Links to your plenty of moderates, not that I can't believe it, I just like to back things up with facts.
And some links to these stupid people too

Uhhh, how about you look at the Wikipedia article that has a whole section of Muslim opposition? Stupid people making strawmans and screaming bigot: http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=30336807&postcount=1010. I'm not doing any more work for you. Just go on believing whatever the hell you want. You sound like too big a man to change your mind about something.

 

[sandorski]

Uhhh, how about you look at the Wikipedia article that has a whole section of Muslim opposition? Stupid people making strawmans and screaming bigot: http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=30336807&postcount=1010. I'm not doing any more work for you. Just go on believing whatever the hell you want. You sound like too big a man to change your mind about something.

Muslim opposition is most likely just to appease Bigots. "Bigots" is the correct term, as their Reasoning is pure bigotry.

 

[Infohawk]

Muslim opposition is most likely just to appease Bigots. "Bigots" is the correct term, as their Reasoning is pure bigotry.

So now you're suggesting Muslims are lying in order to appease bigots when there is no proof to believe that? Not worthy of a response. Much like your consistent refusal to capitalize properly, you just want to believe your way is right.

PS Sounds like you are saying Muslim moderates are all liars. Bigott!! (Mouth foaming)

 

[nobodyknows]

Muslim opposition is most likely just to appease Bigots. "Bigots" is the correct term, as their Reasoning is pure bigotry.

Fail

 

[Orignal Earl]

Uhhh, how about you look at the Wikipedia article that has a whole section of Muslim opposition? Stupid people making strawmans and screaming bigot: http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=30336807&postcount=1010. I'm not doing any more work for you. Just go on believing whatever the hell you want. You sound like too big a man to change your mind about something.

If it's the same article I read, there was about 7 Muslims opposing it?
Nope I change my mind all the time

 

[Sclamoz]

Uhhh, how about you look at the Wikipedia article that has a whole section of Muslim opposition? Stupid people making strawmans and screaming bigot: http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=30336807&postcount=1010. I'm not doing any more work for you. Just go on believing whatever the hell you want. You sound like too big a man to change your mind about something.

Interesting thing to post... an article about people across the country now protesting mosques. Yeah this is definitely about the sensitivity of ground zero!

Face it you can't explain your Nazi comparison without outing yourself.

 

[Infohawk]

If it's the same article I read, there was about 7 Muslims opposing it?
Nope I change my mind all the time

Yes seven representatives of Muslim organizations. How many do you want to hear change your mind? What makes you discount their opinions compared to other muslim opinions. You just see what you want to believe! You may say you change your mind, but your reasoning suggests the opposite. "Derrr we tested gravity 10 times but that wasn't enough to prove it .... derrrr."

 

[sandorski]

So now you're suggesting Muslims are lying in order to appease bigots when there is no proof to believe that? Not worthy of a response. Much like your consistent refusal to capitalize properly, you just want to believe your way is right.

PS Sounds like you are saying Muslim moderates are all liars. Bigott!! (Mouth foaming)

Not "Lying", just capitulating to avoid the wrath of Bigots.

 

[Infohawk]

Not "Lying", just capitulating to avoid the wrath of Bigots.

Did you read the quotes? What makes you think they're capitulating. As someone suggested in another thread, we though you were a better debater than this. You getting tired? Just admit your argument is absurd.

 

[nobodyknows]

Interesting thing to post... an article about people across the country now protesting mosques. Yeah this is definitely about the sensitivity of ground zero!

Face it you can't explain your Nazi comparison without outing yourself.

How many churches are there in Mecca again?

http://www.salon.com/news/ground_ze...ory=/opinion/feature/2010/08/19/dean_response

Heres part of what Howard Dean had to say:

{quoteMy argument is simple. This center may be intended as a bridge or a healing gesture but it will not be perceived that way unless a dialogue with a real attempt to understand each other happens. That means the builders have to be willing to go beyond what is their right and be willing to talk about feelings whether the feelings are "justified" or not. No doubt the Republic will survive if this center is built on its current site or not. But I think this is a missed opportunity to try to have an open discussion about why this is a big deal, because it is a big deal to a lot of Americans who are not just right-wing politicians pushing the hate button again. I think those people need to be heard respectfully, whether they are right or whether they are wrong.

This has nothing to do with the right to build, and unlike same-sex marriage or the civil rights movement, it is not about equal protection under the law. The rights of the builders are not in dispute. This is about ending the poisonous atmosphere engendered by fear and hate, and in order to do that there has to be genuine listening, hearing and willingness to compromise on both sides. I personally believe that there are other possible solutions that could result from such a process and that a genuine exploration of those possibilities is something we ought to try.
[/quote]

But I guess it's so much easier to just yell bigot, bigot, bigot then to talk it out and maybe reach a comprimise.

 

[Infohawk]

How many churches are there in Mecca again?

http://www.salon.com/news/ground_ze...ory=/opinion/feature/2010/08/19/dean_response

Heres part of what Howard Dean had to say:

{quoteMy argument is simple. This center may be intended as a bridge or a healing gesture but it will not be perceived that way unless a dialogue with a real attempt to understand each other happens. That means the builders have to be willing to go beyond what is their right and be willing to talk about feelings whether the feelings are "justified" or not. No doubt the Republic will survive if this center is built on its current site or not. But I think this is a missed opportunity to try to have an open discussion about why this is a big deal, because it is a big deal to a lot of Americans who are not just right-wing politicians pushing the hate button again. I think those people need to be heard respectfully, whether they are right or whether they are wrong.

This has nothing to do with the right to build, and unlike same-sex marriage or the civil rights movement, it is not about equal protection under the law. The rights of the builders are not in dispute. This is about ending the poisonous atmosphere engendered by fear and hate, and in order to do that there has to be genuine listening, hearing and willingness to compromise on both sides. I personally believe that there are other possible solutions that could result from such a process and that a genuine exploration of those possibilities is something we ought to try.

But I guess it's so much easier to just yell bigot, bigot, bigot then to talk it out and maybe reach a comprimise.[/QUOTE]

Awesome quote from a Democrat. Maybe he's just capitulating to the right-wingers though as Sandorski suggests? Or maybe he's a bigot too? Or maybe he's an idiot incapable of reasoning since he happens to disagree with the obstinate left-wingers on this board?

 

[Sclamoz]

How many churches are there in Mecca again?

None. The people protesting mosques out of fear of muslims makes them no better than the Saudis. I would hope the average American is better than that but apparently not.

http://www.salon.com/news/ground_ze...ory=/opinion/feature/2010/08/19/dean_response

Heres part of what Howard Dean had to say:

My argument is simple. This center may be intended as a bridge or a healing gesture but it will not be perceived that way unless a dialogue with a real attempt to understand each other happens. That means the builders have to be willing to go beyond what is their right and be willing to talk about feelings whether the feelings are "justified" or not. No doubt the Republic will survive if this center is built on its current site or not. But I think this is a missed opportunity to try to have an open discussion about why this is a big deal, because it is a big deal to a lot of Americans who are not just right-wing politicians pushing the hate button again. I think those people need to be heard respectfully, whether they are right or whether they are wrong.

This has nothing to do with the right to build, and unlike same-sex marriage or the civil rights movement, it is not about equal protection under the law. The rights of the builders are not in dispute. This is about ending the poisonous atmosphere engendered by fear and hate, and in order to do that there has to be genuine listening, hearing and willingness to compromise on both sides. I personally believe that there are other possible solutions that could result from such a process and that a genuine exploration of those possibilities is something we ought to try.

But I guess it's so much easier to just yell bigot, bigot, bigot then to talk it out and maybe reach a comprimise.

Yeah dude in the what 3-4 maybe even more threads we've discussed this in all I've done is say bigot. That reminds me, do you think the family that hurt you feelings by putting the cross up for their dead relative should take it down just because you don't like it?

 

[sandorski]

Did you read the quotes? What makes you think they're capitulating. As someone suggested in another thread, we though you were a better debater than this. You getting tired? Just admit your argument is absurd.

No, I hadn't read the quotes. Now that I have I see they are from "Former Muslims". What kind of Fail is this you're spouting?

 

[Infohawk]

No, I hadn't read the quotes. Now that I have I see they are from "Former Muslims". What kind of Fail is this you're spouting?

Stephen Schwartz: Muslim.

Raheel Raza: "devout Muslim"

I'm not going to go on because it appears you have fail at reading.

 

[sandorski]

Stephen Schwartz: Muslim.

Raheel Raza: "devout Muslim"

I'm not going to go on because it appears you have fail at reading.

Perhaps repost the Link, because I didn't see those people in the Link I followed.

 

[Infohawk]

Perhaps repost the Link, because I didn't see those people in the Link I followed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Park51#Muslims

And it gets longer as the days go on... I'm seeing new ones.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Yes seven representatives of Muslim organizations. How many do you want to hear change your mind? What makes you discount their opinions compared to other muslim opinions. You just see what you want to believe! You may say you change your mind, but your reasoning suggests the opposite. "Derrr we tested gravity 10 times but that wasn't enough to prove it .... derrrr."

I guess your lumping all Muslims together, you have a Sufi saying a Sunni saying a Shi'a is wrong. These people all disagree with each other all the time.

Another founding member of the Center for Islamic Pluralism, Zuhdi Jasser, who is also the founder of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy, a group of Muslim professionals in the Phoenix Valley of Arizona, strongly opposed the mosque, saying:

For us, a mosque was always a place to pray...—not a way to make an ostentatious architectural statement. Ground Zero shouldn't be about promoting Islam. It's the place where war was declared on us as Americans."[37] Neda Bolourchi, a Muslim whose mother died in 9/11, said: "I fear it would become a symbol of victory for militant Muslims around the world."

Somebody has goofed on the Neda quote too.
Should I guess with your Derrrr derrrrrr comment , that I'm one of your stupid people?

 

[BassBomb]

i cant fucking believe how big of an issue people are making this to be

idiots

 

[sandorski]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Park51#Muslims

And it gets longer as the days go on... I'm seeing new ones.

I think my original statement stands on its' own. These Muslims are capitulating to bigots. Possibility also exists that they did not fully know the facts when asked for their comments.

Face it, the "Ground Zero" Mosque is just one of many being opposed. It is only convenient for hiding your Bigotry. Must be comforting for you.

 

[Throckmorton]

The reason those Muslims oppose the mosque is that it's creating hatred among the bigots. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that

What next, arguing that the Civil Rights Movement shouldn't have happened because there were blacks who opposed it on the grounds that it angered the Ku Klux Klan? Yes, that is a valid reason because an angry KKK puts everybody in danger, but that doesn't make the KKK anything but bigots.