YACT, video of a SRT-4 Dusting a WRX and a modded Talon

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Bullhonkie

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: NFS4

I don't know where you live, but the chances of you seeing a riced out RSX, WRX, SVT Focus, or Celica GTS is slim to none around here. I'll repeat yet again, these cars are targeted at more wealthy, older buying audience than riced out Civics (and hence the market that Dodge is after...youthful speed freaks). The average age for people that buy cars of this type are in their 30's and 40's; typically buyers who could care less about ricing out or slamming their cars. They are more concerned with mortgages and stock portfolios and their kids grades in school.

Average age of buyer (courtesy of MSN Autos):

RSX - 31
WRX - 43
SVT Focus - 45
Celica GTS - 43

Average income (courtesy of MSN Autos):

RSX - $63,572
WRX - $74,276
SVT Focus - $45,566
Celica GTS - $67,441

Your average Civic ricer (the market the SRT-4 is after) is going to been in his/her teens - early twenties and has less money to spend on a vehicle than an RSX/WRX/SVT Focus/Celica GTS owner.

I REST MY CASE

LOL, the funny thing is, even the ricers (Fast and the Furious 2 producers) were doggin' on the Neon SRT-4. LMAO

Now before you think The Fast and the Furious 2 is totally indiscriminate in the cars it cast, consider this: ?Dodge wanted Neons, the SRTs, in the film, but the director wasn?t going for it,? says Moser. ?When you have Skylines and Evos, it?s hard to put in a Neon.?

http://autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=reviews&loc_code=index&content_code=03122486

Your numbers seem skewed. Over here, if you come see high school parking lots, they are filled with Celicas, RSX (my high school friend bought one and he works at the Mandarin to pay off the monthly payments), WRX. If you look at drivers of these cars, they are mostly young orientals.

Also the numbers you posted show the AVERAGE. The US and Canada has diverse local societies where in one city you may see something and in another you may see something else. I could care less what MSN Auto thinks. From what I see in my area, the owners of the above cars are mostly 20-somethings and even under-20 people. If you attend any car club meets of the above cars or even peek at their forums, they all give the SRT4 respect and would consider one. The SRT4 is an enthusiast's car and I'm speaking from an enthusiasts point of view. The Celica/WRX/RSX enthusiasts all give praise to the SRT4 and wouldn't mind buying one (except for the WRX guys tho, they want their AWD ). Just check out their forums. Numbers are one thing, but enthusiasm and love for driver are another.

Just look outside of published numbers and surveys and actually listen and read what the people who buy these cars are actually saying! Dodge just levelled the competition with their offering, its pretty much what the DSMs did 10 years ago!

What you see in Canada doesn't really mean jack compared to what is seen here in the US That also goes for the numbers I posted which are US figures. It's easy to say "Oh I see this here" or "I see oriental ricers there," but the demographics I posted speak for themselves. Where I live, and where I have traveled to, I see older people driving the cars I mentioned. That's why I went and found evidence to back up my claims.

Also, the Canadian auto market is a drop in the bucket compared to the US auto market.

Well I'm from the US of A and I can tell you that at least around here, it's the same story. Check out most of the local high school and community college lots, and there are 'tegs/RSXs, Celicas, Eclipses, WRXs, Civics, etc. all over the place (seems like most are fairly riced out too, sadly). I'd wager that a lot of those average age numbers are skewed by the fact that these kids are often getting their parents to buy these cars, which is EXTREMELY common here in the Silicon Valley area. Mommy and daddy buying IS300s and 3-series cars for their kid as a high school graduation present isn't uncommon. No way these kids pulling in $8/hr from McDonalds part-time can afford these things (or the insurance associated with them), but somehow, they have them. Around here (again keyword being HERE) cruising around town, most of the aforementioned cars are driven by younger looking people more often than not. The latest gen Celicas especially seem to be popular among the younger women crowd for some reason.

Sure the demographics speak for themselves, but they're nationwide averages and don't really show you anything locale-based. And with the vast differences of lifestyle and needs throughout the US, broad nationwide averages aren't really useful for anything other than comparing general trends from year to year.

I'd still trust averages over what every Tom, Dick and Harry sees in his high school parking lot. On the campus of NC State, I see mostly beater Camrys and Accords, riced (or plain) Civics and your occasional BMW. Mostly see pickups and low-end SUVs too.

But I'm not going to let what I see in Raleigh, NC dictate what the country as a whole is like.

We aren't talking about hte country at whole. We are talking about the market of WRX/RSX-S/Celica GTS/SRT4 which is the enthusiast market. I don't see how a bunch of numbers should even matter. Those are probably skewed anyway because it doesn't account WHO the real driver of the car is. The buyer and the driver could very well be two different people for these cars.

And I don't trust the numbers, I trust what the enthusaists are saying because the market DOES listen to them. Do you think that Subaru decided the facelift the WRX on their own? No, they listened to what the Enthusiasts complained about! Do you think Infiniti decided to redo the rear-trunk section just like that? No its the enthusiasts that did.

Don't think those market averages matter because they don't tell the whole story. Face it, the WRX/GTS (Celica)/Focus SVT/RSX-S and SRT4 are all in the same catagory, the sport compact catogery. Dont' believe me? Read the magazines since you like published material. SCC, the same magazine that has features and project cars based on the RSX, Celica, SVT, SE-R claimed that SRT4 was the Sport Compact Car of the Year for them. Those magazines have ads for RSX/SVT/etc.. because the buyers of those cars read those magazines.

You cannot deny the fact that those cars are competing against each other because they are, and Dodge just layed their trump card.

Technically, the Hyundai Tiburon, Mitsubishi Eclipse, and a host of others also compete with the Celica GTS and RSX Type-S.

I think that you are doing some of those cars a disservice by lumping them all into one category. Specifically the WRX. There is no way in the world that I would throw a WRX into the same gene pool as the RSX and Celica GTS. Sure, maybe the 2.5S version, but not the WRX. The WRX and EVO deserve their own little space.

In that same respect, I would NOT put the Neon SRT-4 in the same category as either the WRX or even the Celicas or RSX's. The SRT-4 has formed its OWN CLASS of factory hot-rods that aim to steal marketshare away from the import ricing crowd.

 

[Phuz]

It doesn't mater what innovations these cars are incorperating.. fact is, a similar price range puts cars in a similar class. Regardless of mechanics and features, if a consumer has $X to spend, they'll be cross shopping cars in $X price range.

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Bullhonkie

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: NFS4

I don't know where you live, but the chances of you seeing a riced out RSX, WRX, SVT Focus, or Celica GTS is slim to none around here. I'll repeat yet again, these cars are targeted at more wealthy, older buying audience than riced out Civics (and hence the market that Dodge is after...youthful speed freaks). The average age for people that buy cars of this type are in their 30's and 40's; typically buyers who could care less about ricing out or slamming their cars. They are more concerned with mortgages and stock portfolios and their kids grades in school.

Average age of buyer (courtesy of MSN Autos):

RSX - 31
WRX - 43
SVT Focus - 45
Celica GTS - 43

Average income (courtesy of MSN Autos):

RSX - $63,572
WRX - $74,276
SVT Focus - $45,566
Celica GTS - $67,441

Your average Civic ricer (the market the SRT-4 is after) is going to been in his/her teens - early twenties and has less money to spend on a vehicle than an RSX/WRX/SVT Focus/Celica GTS owner.

I REST MY CASE

LOL, the funny thing is, even the ricers (Fast and the Furious 2 producers) were doggin' on the Neon SRT-4. LMAO

Now before you think The Fast and the Furious 2 is totally indiscriminate in the cars it cast, consider this: ?Dodge wanted Neons, the SRTs, in the film, but the director wasn?t going for it,? says Moser. ?When you have Skylines and Evos, it?s hard to put in a Neon.?

http://autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=reviews&loc_code=index&content_code=03122486

Your numbers seem skewed. Over here, if you come see high school parking lots, they are filled with Celicas, RSX (my high school friend bought one and he works at the Mandarin to pay off the monthly payments), WRX. If you look at drivers of these cars, they are mostly young orientals.

Also the numbers you posted show the AVERAGE. The US and Canada has diverse local societies where in one city you may see something and in another you may see something else. I could care less what MSN Auto thinks. From what I see in my area, the owners of the above cars are mostly 20-somethings and even under-20 people. If you attend any car club meets of the above cars or even peek at their forums, they all give the SRT4 respect and would consider one. The SRT4 is an enthusiast's car and I'm speaking from an enthusiasts point of view. The Celica/WRX/RSX enthusiasts all give praise to the SRT4 and wouldn't mind buying one (except for the WRX guys tho, they want their AWD ). Just check out their forums. Numbers are one thing, but enthusiasm and love for driver are another.

Just look outside of published numbers and surveys and actually listen and read what the people who buy these cars are actually saying! Dodge just levelled the competition with their offering, its pretty much what the DSMs did 10 years ago!

What you see in Canada doesn't really mean jack compared to what is seen here in the US That also goes for the numbers I posted which are US figures. It's easy to say "Oh I see this here" or "I see oriental ricers there," but the demographics I posted speak for themselves. Where I live, and where I have traveled to, I see older people driving the cars I mentioned. That's why I went and found evidence to back up my claims.

Also, the Canadian auto market is a drop in the bucket compared to the US auto market.

Well I'm from the US of A and I can tell you that at least around here, it's the same story. Check out most of the local high school and community college lots, and there are 'tegs/RSXs, Celicas, Eclipses, WRXs, Civics, etc. all over the place (seems like most are fairly riced out too, sadly). I'd wager that a lot of those average age numbers are skewed by the fact that these kids are often getting their parents to buy these cars, which is EXTREMELY common here in the Silicon Valley area. Mommy and daddy buying IS300s and 3-series cars for their kid as a high school graduation present isn't uncommon. No way these kids pulling in $8/hr from McDonalds part-time can afford these things (or the insurance associated with them), but somehow, they have them. Around here (again keyword being HERE) cruising around town, most of the aforementioned cars are driven by younger looking people more often than not. The latest gen Celicas especially seem to be popular among the younger women crowd for some reason.

Sure the demographics speak for themselves, but they're nationwide averages and don't really show you anything locale-based. And with the vast differences of lifestyle and needs throughout the US, broad nationwide averages aren't really useful for anything other than comparing general trends from year to year.

I'd still trust averages over what every Tom, Dick and Harry sees in his high school parking lot. On the campus of NC State, I see mostly beater Camrys and Accords, riced (or plain) Civics and your occasional BMW. Mostly see pickups and low-end SUVs too.

But I'm not going to let what I see in Raleigh, NC dictate what the country as a whole is like.

We aren't talking about hte country at whole. We are talking about the market of WRX/RSX-S/Celica GTS/SRT4 which is the enthusiast market. I don't see how a bunch of numbers should even matter. Those are probably skewed anyway because it doesn't account WHO the real driver of the car is. The buyer and the driver could very well be two different people for these cars.

And I don't trust the numbers, I trust what the enthusaists are saying because the market DOES listen to them. Do you think that Subaru decided the facelift the WRX on their own? No, they listened to what the Enthusiasts complained about! Do you think Infiniti decided to redo the rear-trunk section just like that? No its the enthusiasts that did.

Don't think those market averages matter because they don't tell the whole story. Face it, the WRX/GTS (Celica)/Focus SVT/RSX-S and SRT4 are all in the same catagory, the sport compact catogery. Dont' believe me? Read the magazines since you like published material. SCC, the same magazine that has features and project cars based on the RSX, Celica, SVT, SE-R claimed that SRT4 was the Sport Compact Car of the Year for them. Those magazines have ads for RSX/SVT/etc.. because the buyers of those cars read those magazines.

You cannot deny the fact that those cars are competing against each other because they are, and Dodge just layed their trump card.

Technically, the Hyundai Tiburon, Mitsubishi Eclipse, and a host of others also compete with the Celica GTS and RSX Type-S.

I think that you are doing some of those cars a disservice by lumping them all into one category. Specifically the WRX. There is no way in the world that I would throw a WRX into the same gene pool as the RSX and Celica GTS. Sure, maybe the 2.5S version, but not the WRX. The WRX and EVO deserve their own little space.

In that same respect, I would NOT put the Neon SRT-4 in the same category as either the WRX or even the Celicas or RSX's. The SRT-4 has formed its OWN CLASS of factory hot-rods that aim to steal marketshare away from the import ricing crowd.

See I agree with that, that's what I meant when I said that the SRT4 just made all the other competitors look useless. The other cars mentioned were factory hot rods that just got shamed. SVT Focus, Mazdaspeed PRotege (which I forgot ot include), SE-R Spec-V (which seems antiquated now), etc..

Btw change the WRX to STI and then its in the same class as EVO. There's more to the STi than just a hp increase as compared to the WRX. Anyay I can't comment on the EVO since we dont' be getting it here (nor will we be getting the new GTO either..stupid companies think there isnt' a market in Canada!). Ok so there isnt', still I wanna see them here dammit!

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Originally posted by: Phuz
It doesn't mater what innovations these cars are incorperating.. fact is, a similar price range puts cars in a similar class. Regardless of mechanics and features, if a consumer has $X to spend, they'll be cross shopping cars in $X price range.

That is true.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: Phuz
It doesn't mater what innovations these cars are incorperating.. fact is, a similar price range puts cars in a similar class. Regardless of mechanics and features, if a consumer has $X to spend, they'll be cross shopping cars in $X price range.

I'll remember that the next time I cross shop a Camaro with a Mini Cooper S

 

[ElFenix]

i still think my observation on those demographics is probably accurate

 

[Phuz]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Phuz
It doesn't mater what innovations these cars are incorperating.. fact is, a similar price range puts cars in a similar class. Regardless of mechanics and features, if a consumer has $X to spend, they'll be cross shopping cars in $X price range.

I'll remember that the next time I cross shop a Camaro with a Mini Cooper S

Thats just irrational. I'm talking about the cars in context.

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Phuz
It doesn't mater what innovations these cars are incorperating.. fact is, a similar price range puts cars in a similar class. Regardless of mechanics and features, if a consumer has $X to spend, they'll be cross shopping cars in $X price range.

I'll remember that the next time I cross shop a Camaro with a Mini Cooper S

But ya can't buy Camaro's anymore!

Hey we made it to 7 pages! I contributed to two or three of those! Sweeet...

 

[NFS4]

See I agree with that, that's what I meant when I said that the SRT4 just made all the other competitors look useless. The other cars mentioned were factory hot rods that just got shamed. SVT Focus, Mazdaspeed PRotege (which I forgot ot include), SE-R Spec-V (which seems antiquated now), etc..

None of those cars are performance hot-rods compared to their stock variants. I'd call them "mildly breathed upon" in the powertrain department. The stock Neon vs the SRT-4 is the equivalent of a tornado.

 

[blahblah99]

I'm glad Dodge got the balls to put out a $20,000 car that's fast... that'll make other companies get their butts in gear and put out faster cars at a cheaper price.

<------- Hoping Nissan Japan brings over the S15 silvias. Now THOSE things are fast. And it runs at about 7-8psi of boost only, compared to what the SRT is running at, 13psi? US equivalent cost is about $23,000. Now I'd take that over the SRT anyday. To bad it's not available in the states.

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Originally posted by: NFS4

See I agree with that, that's what I meant when I said that the SRT4 just made all the other competitors look useless. The other cars mentioned were factory hot rods that just got shamed. SVT Focus, Mazdaspeed PRotege (which I forgot ot include), SE-R Spec-V (which seems antiquated now), etc..

None of those cars are performance hot-rods compared to their stock variants. I'd call them "mildly breathed upon" in the powertrain department. The stock Neon vs the SRT-4 is the equivalent of a tornado.

That's my point! That's why its shaken everything up. No one was used to a tornado version of their regular cars (well not in recent times anyway). Now let's see who's gonna bat next! It's gonna be an interesting match that's for sure! Those cars were considered hot rods until now.

Prediction:
- SVT brings the Focus RS to North America to counter the SRT4.
- Nissan decides to bring a heavy weight contender, but that will take a few years seeing as how they are focusing on higher end cars for now.
- Cavalier Turbo comes out
- Mazda brings about a hi-po variant of their coming MX-3 car (few years)
- cant' think of anything else.

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Originally posted by: blahblah99
I'm glad Dodge got the balls to put out a $20,000 car that's fast... that'll make other companies get their butts in gear and put out faster cars at a cheaper price.

<------- Hoping Nissan Japan brings over the S15 silvias. Now THOSE things are fast. And it runs at about 7-8psi of boost only, compared to what the SRT is running at, 13psi? US equivalent cost is about $23,000. Now I'd take that over the SRT anyday. To bad it's not available in the states.

is the SRT really $20k only? Damn that is cheap! How are they managing to sell it that price range?

The S15 is discontinued man, even in the JDM market. Nissan can't afford to redesign the SR to meet new emission standards. It'll come back in some form or another soon enough though.

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Since the SRT4 is turbocharged, here's a good pic of a turbocharger at full blast..it's a pretty cool pic.
link

 

[KokomoGST]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: geno

So I hold them to the numbers they publish

That's fine, just make a mental note that it's putting out a lot more than just 40 horsies over your precious Mini It's thinking like that which explains why that WRX got spanked... I mean, jeeze the WRX has 12 more horses...even with the AWD advantage it should've kept up a little right? Wrong, there's a noteworthy difference in power

Neon SRT-4 2939 lbs; 245 ft-lbs
WRX 3085 lbs; 217 ft-lbs

THAT could have something to do with it

First, as a DSM owner I have to clear up this whole Talon thing. Talons are the same exact car as Eclipses and even some Lasers. The only difference is exterior styling and badging. Interiors are the same... and of course everything else too.

Well, you mentioned factory power #s... you can throw them out the window with the SRT4. It's what people call "severely underrated", lol
The SRT4 dyno'ed more than 215fwhp... so if you factor powertrain loss, it's making WAY more power than the WRX... in fact it's got enough power to deadheat a Z... and the 1/4 mile to prove it. Dodge is putting out nothing but ringers... you can go and buy a ringer.

Dodge originally projected the car to shoot for that 215hp goal... their engineers did too good of a job with power

Also, because of the equal-length halfshafts... no torque steer with the SRT4. I don't have that benefit on my car... it's a bitch to have that much power and no traction to put it to the ground... but it sure is fun!

 

[SSP]

Originally posted by: Yield

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: geno
NFS, you realize how BIG of a jump 1 second is in 0-60? I mean, I love the quality and the (little bit of) prestige the Mini has, but for 20k I'm taking the car with 100 more horses.

Mini Cooper S has 163HP. 100 more horses would make the SRT-4 have 263

It surely isn't 1 second that I'm gonna miss driving to the grocery store, to work, or to school. Sure, it'd matter if I were trying to race some other jackass at a stoplight who has something to prove, but last time I raced someone, I got slapped with a ticket (which I got out of with a Prayer for Judgement). I'm not stupid enough to make that mistake again.

The Mini S is a slow, pussy, piece of crap.. 1 second worse 0-60? that's pretty bad. bring the SRT down 1 more second and you're in super-car 0-60 territory. the SRT has a nice interior too. it's no longer "rental class" or whatever you called it... face it man.. it's a sweet car.. or can you not handle the fact it's better than anything else you like?

I read the whole thread and I gotta agree with this post. Its so dam fugly.

 

[KokomoGST]

Originally posted by: adlep
Subaru WRX STI...
Anyhow, I think that the Subaru is a much better car anyway....

If you had the kinda money to consider the WRX STi do you think you'd be buying the SRT4?
20k vs 35k+? that's a REALLY big price jump

 

[KokomoGST]

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: NFS4

See I agree with that, that's what I meant when I said that the SRT4 just made all the other competitors look useless. The other cars mentioned were factory hot rods that just got shamed. SVT Focus, Mazdaspeed PRotege (which I forgot ot include), SE-R Spec-V (which seems antiquated now), etc..

None of those cars are performance hot-rods compared to their stock variants. I'd call them "mildly breathed upon" in the powertrain department. The stock Neon vs the SRT-4 is the equivalent of a tornado.

That's my point! That's why its shaken everything up. No one was used to a tornado version of their regular cars (well not in recent times anyway). Now let's see who's gonna bat next! It's gonna be an interesting match that's for sure! Those cars were considered hot rods until now.

Actually, there's another car with giant power disparities... Talons/Eclipses/Lasers.

Amazing what adding a turbo to a good motor can do to a car... the A420 the Neon ran originally took to boost really well with Mitsubishi 16Gs. With dished pistons and mebbe stronger rods, it put out a LOT of power.

So... lets look at those predictions...

Prediction:
- SVT brings the Focus RS to North America to counter the SRT4.
- Nissan decides to bring a heavy weight contender, but that will take a few years seeing as how they are focusing on higher end cars for now.
- Cavalier Turbo comes out
- Mazda brings about a hi-po variant of their coming MX-3 car (few years)

- Ford Europe and USA both have said without a doubt, the RS is for the European market only. In fact, the AWD Focus Cosworth (also a turbo) is limited production for Europe also.
- Nismo may accelerate parts production and mebbe step up to the challenge, but it's still a not an assembly line solution... unless they do decide on making a blown SE-R as the Nismo SE-R, but somehow I doubt it.
- Cavalier Turbo is SEMA'ed... GM Performance has plans on making the parts for you to build one.
- Actually, the Mazdaspeed Protege is the SRT4's direct competitor... if they actually decide to properly engineer the powertrain, I can't see why their Protege can't also put down similar numbers. Their half-assed solution of adding boost to a regular NA engine isn't gonna cut it again the SRT in a straight line.

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Originally posted by: SSP

Originally posted by: Yield

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: geno
NFS, you realize how BIG of a jump 1 second is in 0-60? I mean, I love the quality and the (little bit of) prestige the Mini has, but for 20k I'm taking the car with 100 more horses.

Mini Cooper S has 163HP. 100 more horses would make the SRT-4 have 263

It surely isn't 1 second that I'm gonna miss driving to the grocery store, to work, or to school. Sure, it'd matter if I were trying to race some other jackass at a stoplight who has something to prove, but last time I raced someone, I got slapped with a ticket (which I got out of with a Prayer for Judgement). I'm not stupid enough to make that mistake again.

The Mini S is a slow, pussy, piece of crap.. 1 second worse 0-60? that's pretty bad. bring the SRT down 1 more second and you're in super-car 0-60 territory. the SRT has a nice interior too. it's no longer "rental class" or whatever you called it... face it man.. it's a sweet car.. or can you not handle the fact it's better than anything else you like?

I read the whole thread and I gotta agree with this post. Its so dam fugly.

I have to disagree here. While the Cooper S is a slower car, its not a pussy piece of crap. That car currently dominates in the subcompact fun to drive segment. It kills all competition in the handling dept. That said, its price is its biggest low-point! $36k CDN for a fully loaded Cooper S? You gotta be joking. I priced one out, with tax it comes out to over $40k CDN! Spend a few more and a fairly equipped G35 can be had (and those come with leather, bose, etc.. standard in canada).

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Originally posted by: KokomoGST

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: NFS4

See I agree with that, that's what I meant when I said that the SRT4 just made all the other competitors look useless. The other cars mentioned were factory hot rods that just got shamed. SVT Focus, Mazdaspeed PRotege (which I forgot ot include), SE-R Spec-V (which seems antiquated now), etc..

None of those cars are performance hot-rods compared to their stock variants. I'd call them "mildly breathed upon" in the powertrain department. The stock Neon vs the SRT-4 is the equivalent of a tornado.

That's my point! That's why its shaken everything up. No one was used to a tornado version of their regular cars (well not in recent times anyway). Now let's see who's gonna bat next! It's gonna be an interesting match that's for sure! Those cars were considered hot rods until now.

Actually, there's another car with giant power disparities... Talons/Eclipses/Lasers.

Amazing what adding a turbo to a good motor can do to a car... the A420 the Neon ran originally took to boost really well with Mitsubishi 16Gs. With dished pistons and mebbe stronger rods, it put out a LOT of power.

So... lets look at those predictions...

Prediction:
- SVT brings the Focus RS to North America to counter the SRT4.
- Nissan decides to bring a heavy weight contender, but that will take a few years seeing as how they are focusing on higher end cars for now.
- Cavalier Turbo comes out
- Mazda brings about a hi-po variant of their coming MX-3 car (few years)

- Ford Europe and USA both have said without a doubt, the RS is for the European market only. In fact, the AWD Focus Cosworth (also a turbo) is limited production for Europe also.
- Nismo may accelerate parts production and mebbe step up to the challenge, but it's still a not an assembly line solution... unless they do decide on making a blown SE-R as the Nismo SE-R, but somehow I doubt it.
- Cavalier Turbo is SEMA'ed... GM Performance has plans on making the parts for you to build one.
- Actually, the Mazdaspeed Protege is the SRT4's direct competitor... if they actually decide to properly engineer the powertrain, I can't see why their Protege can't also put down similar numbers. Their half-assed solution of adding boost to a regular NA engine isn't gonna cut it again the SRT in a straight line.

I meant Nissan will make a new product not one based off the current Sentra. Nissan already had their glory days with hte original SE-R and the 510 in that segment. G35 took over that role and it went up in the price range.

Cavalier Turbo should be good if I could get past the styling.

Agree with you on the Mazda, but it is still a all-rounder.

 

[KokomoGST]

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

I meant Nissan will make a new product not one based off the current Sentra. Nissan already had their glory days with hte original SE-R and the 510 in that segment. G35 took over that role and it went up in the price range.

Cavalier Turbo should be good if I could get past the styling.

Agree with you on the Mazda, but it is still a all-rounder.

Well, you mean something like a Nissan Sunny GTi-R? It's really too bad we never got all those hot hatches... we have poor excuses for hot hatches and real sport compacts for the most part.

The SRT4 is just good ol' Mopar coming through again showing again that they know power. Prolly the biggest reason why I'd buy the SRT4 over any similar GM, Ford, or other competitor. Mopar rocks, cheap parts that work great... what else could you ask for? Mebbe a Dodge Razor (think RWD SRT4) but... that's neither here nor there.

 

[thedarkwolf]

Since I didn't see any in this thread here is a thread I made on the Hardforum with some new dyno numbers, an 1/8 mile run or two, and a link to the Motor Trend review of it.

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?s=98928b1a40777fa0b2a06c553dbc2ead&threadid=575893
Too lazy to go through the trouble of reposting them all here.

The car's interior isn't the greatest but with that kind of performance under $20k you have to give up something.

 

[CraigRT]

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN
Since the SRT4 is turbocharged, here's a good pic of a turbocharger at full blast..it's a pretty cool pic.
link

that's sweeeeet ! damn, so cool !!!!!!!

 

[johneetrash]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Bullhonkie

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: NFS4

I don't know where you live, but the chances of you seeing a riced out RSX, WRX, SVT Focus, or Celica GTS is slim to none around here. I'll repeat yet again, these cars are targeted at more wealthy, older buying audience than riced out Civics (and hence the market that Dodge is after...youthful speed freaks). The average age for people that buy cars of this type are in their 30's and 40's; typically buyers who could care less about ricing out or slamming their cars. They are more concerned with mortgages and stock portfolios and their kids grades in school.

Average age of buyer (courtesy of MSN Autos):

RSX - 31
WRX - 43
SVT Focus - 45
Celica GTS - 43

Average income (courtesy of MSN Autos):

RSX - $63,572
WRX - $74,276
SVT Focus - $45,566
Celica GTS - $67,441

Your average Civic ricer (the market the SRT-4 is after) is going to been in his/her teens - early twenties and has less money to spend on a vehicle than an RSX/WRX/SVT Focus/Celica GTS owner.

I REST MY CASE

LOL, the funny thing is, even the ricers (Fast and the Furious 2 producers) were doggin' on the Neon SRT-4. LMAO

Now before you think The Fast and the Furious 2 is totally indiscriminate in the cars it cast, consider this: ?Dodge wanted Neons, the SRTs, in the film, but the director wasn?t going for it,? says Moser. ?When you have Skylines and Evos, it?s hard to put in a Neon.?

http://autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=reviews&loc_code=index&content_code=03122486

Your numbers seem skewed. Over here, if you come see high school parking lots, they are filled with Celicas, RSX (my high school friend bought one and he works at the Mandarin to pay off the monthly payments), WRX. If you look at drivers of these cars, they are mostly young orientals.

Also the numbers you posted show the AVERAGE. The US and Canada has diverse local societies where in one city you may see something and in another you may see something else. I could care less what MSN Auto thinks. From what I see in my area, the owners of the above cars are mostly 20-somethings and even under-20 people. If you attend any car club meets of the above cars or even peek at their forums, they all give the SRT4 respect and would consider one. The SRT4 is an enthusiast's car and I'm speaking from an enthusiasts point of view. The Celica/WRX/RSX enthusiasts all give praise to the SRT4 and wouldn't mind buying one (except for the WRX guys tho, they want their AWD ). Just check out their forums. Numbers are one thing, but enthusiasm and love for driver are another.

Just look outside of published numbers and surveys and actually listen and read what the people who buy these cars are actually saying! Dodge just levelled the competition with their offering, its pretty much what the DSMs did 10 years ago!

What you see in Canada doesn't really mean jack compared to what is seen here in the US That also goes for the numbers I posted which are US figures. It's easy to say "Oh I see this here" or "I see oriental ricers there," but the demographics I posted speak for themselves. Where I live, and where I have traveled to, I see older people driving the cars I mentioned. That's why I went and found evidence to back up my claims.

Also, the Canadian auto market is a drop in the bucket compared to the US auto market.

Well I'm from the US of A and I can tell you that at least around here, it's the same story. Check out most of the local high school and community college lots, and there are 'tegs/RSXs, Celicas, Eclipses, WRXs, Civics, etc. all over the place (seems like most are fairly riced out too, sadly). I'd wager that a lot of those average age numbers are skewed by the fact that these kids are often getting their parents to buy these cars, which is EXTREMELY common here in the Silicon Valley area. Mommy and daddy buying IS300s and 3-series cars for their kid as a high school graduation present isn't uncommon. No way these kids pulling in $8/hr from McDonalds part-time can afford these things (or the insurance associated with them), but somehow, they have them. Around here (again keyword being HERE) cruising around town, most of the aforementioned cars are driven by younger looking people more often than not. The latest gen Celicas especially seem to be popular among the younger women crowd for some reason.

Sure the demographics speak for themselves, but they're nationwide averages and don't really show you anything locale-based. And with the vast differences of lifestyle and needs throughout the US, broad nationwide averages aren't really useful for anything other than comparing general trends from year to year.

I'd still trust averages over what every Tom, Dick and Harry sees in his high school parking lot. On the campus of NC State, I see mostly beater Camrys and Accords, riced (or plain) Civics and your occasional BMW. Mostly see pickups and low-end SUVs too.

But I'm not going to let what I see in Raleigh, NC dictate what the country as a whole is like.

We aren't talking about hte country at whole. We are talking about the market of WRX/RSX-S/Celica GTS/SRT4 which is the enthusiast market. I don't see how a bunch of numbers should even matter. Those are probably skewed anyway because it doesn't account WHO the real driver of the car is. The buyer and the driver could very well be two different people for these cars.

And I don't trust the numbers, I trust what the enthusaists are saying because the market DOES listen to them. Do you think that Subaru decided the facelift the WRX on their own? No, they listened to what the Enthusiasts complained about! Do you think Infiniti decided to redo the rear-trunk section just like that? No its the enthusiasts that did.

Don't think those market averages matter because they don't tell the whole story. Face it, the WRX/GTS (Celica)/Focus SVT/RSX-S and SRT4 are all in the same catagory, the sport compact catogery. Dont' believe me? Read the magazines since you like published material. SCC, the same magazine that has features and project cars based on the RSX, Celica, SVT, SE-R claimed that SRT4 was the Sport Compact Car of the Year for them. Those magazines have ads for RSX/SVT/etc.. because the buyers of those cars read those magazines.

You cannot deny the fact that those cars are competing against each other because they are, and Dodge just layed their trump card.

Technically, the Hyundai Tiburon, Mitsubishi Eclipse, and a host of others also compete with the Celica GTS and RSX Type-S.

I think that you are doing some of those cars a disservice by lumping them all into one category. Specifically the WRX. There is no way in the world that I would throw a WRX into the same gene pool as the RSX and Celica GTS. Sure, maybe the 2.5S version, but not the WRX. The WRX and EVO deserve their own little space.

In that same respect, I would NOT put the Neon SRT-4 in the same category as either the WRX or even the Celicas or RSX's. The SRT-4 has formed its OWN CLASS of factory hot-rods that aim to steal marketshare away from the import ricing crowd.

and the import ricing crowd is made up of what? rsx and celicas. and yes hte wrx is in teh same catagory as those cars.

the evo is nowhere near the same catagory as the wrx. the evo and the wrx sti are.

[edit] dammit, these have already been answered.. thats uwt happens hwen you dont read the whole thread when posting [/edit]

 

[geno]

but the chances of you seeing a riced out RSX, WRX, SVT Focus, or Celica GTS is slim to none around here

BULL! Well, at least in my area When the RSX came out, everyone I know knew someone who was buying one to hook up. There's plenty of RSX's that are hooked up, same goes for WRXs, see them a lot around here. And the Celica GTS? How can you say that's not marketed towards younger kids. That "Action Package" garbage is meant to (in your words) "compete with the kiddy ricer's Civics". No matter what the average age of the buyers is, that car is still marketed towards younger people.

 

[geno]

?When you have Skylines and Evos, it?s hard to put in a Neon.?

Oh yeah, cause the Evo is such a pretigious car

Please, it's practially an SRT with AWD... And as for putting Skylines and Evos in the same catagory, whoever said that needs some education.