YACT, video of a SRT-4 Dusting a WRX and a modded Talon

[mAdD INDIAN]

Originally posted by: LAUST
So when does all the bragging about sh!t you people don't even own get over and you punks get to the track on your own for some REAL racing off the bench type stuff?

There's more to enjoying a car than taking it to the track! I haven't disputed the performance of any of the cars.

Personally I would rather have a Miata, an old late 60s early 70s american muscle car, an old British Roadster, or an older Porsche (944, 924), or a Datsun 510 than a brand new SRT4, WRX, etc..not to say those cars are bad, but I'd rather have some old cars that don't need the track to be exposed to their limit (save for the American Muscle car).

NFS4: I still don't agree with you on what you said regarding the cross-shopping. A lot of those *kiddie* ricers buy an RSX, Celica GTS for the sole purpose of modding. Maybe its not like that in your area, but over here in TO, the Celicas/RSX/etc.. are all riced out. Just as bad as the Civics. That said, there are some fast ones out there.

And if you talk to any of those owners, they are all hyped up about the SRT4 and would consider it.

 

[CraigRT]

I agree with ya again Mad Indian... there are alot of everything here in London, Ont too.. for sure... I also agree w/the muscle car idea. I want one soo bad!

just a matter of getting some EXTRA cash, as it obviously couldn't be a daily driver.

 

[johneetrash]

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Personally I would rather have a Miata, an old late 60s early 70s american muscle car, an old British Roadster, or an older Porsche (944, 924), or a Datsun 510

you forgot one. e36 m3!

<-- frequents the car lounge

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Originally posted by: johneetrash

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Personally I would rather have a Miata, an old late 60s early 70s american muscle car, an old British Roadster, or an older Porsche (944, 924), or a Datsun 510

you forgot one. e36 m3!

<-- frequents the car lounge

hehe...the e36 m3 wins all and the 1.8T NEVER LOSES!!

I'd still have a Datsun 510 or a BMW 2002 though...I'm just like that.

 

[CraigRT]

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: johneetrash

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Personally I would rather have a Miata, an old late 60s early 70s american muscle car, an old British Roadster, or an older Porsche (944, 924), or a Datsun 510

you forgot one. e36 m3!

<-- frequents the car lounge

hehe...the e36 m3 wins all and the 1.8T NEVER LOSES!!

I'd still have a Datsun 510 or a BMW 2002 though...I'm just like that.

just like that is good taste my friend.

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Originally posted by: Yield

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: johneetrash

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Personally I would rather have a Miata, an old late 60s early 70s american muscle car, an old British Roadster, or an older Porsche (944, 924), or a Datsun 510

you forgot one. e36 m3!

<-- frequents the car lounge

hehe...the e36 m3 wins all and the 1.8T NEVER LOSES!!

I'd still have a Datsun 510 or a BMW 2002 though...I'm just like that.

just like that is good taste my friend.

Thanks. It's an aquired taste! I'm glad you appreciate it though cause not many people do. I hope more will. There's more to performance than just horsepower and torque.

Colin Chapman said it best: "To add speed, reduce weight" or something like that. I forgot the exact quote.

 

[boyRacer]

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: johneetrash

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Personally I would rather have a Miata, an old late 60s early 70s american muscle car, an old British Roadster, or an older Porsche (944, 924), or a Datsun 510

you forgot one. e36 m3!

<-- frequents the car lounge

hehe...the e36 m3 wins all and the 1.8T NEVER LOSES!!

I'd still have a Datsun 510 or a BMW 2002 though...I'm just like that.

2002 r0x0rs...

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Originally posted by: boyRacer

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: johneetrash

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Personally I would rather have a Miata, an old late 60s early 70s american muscle car, an old British Roadster, or an older Porsche (944, 924), or a Datsun 510

you forgot one. e36 m3!

<-- frequents the car lounge

hehe...the e36 m3 wins all and the 1.8T NEVER LOSES!!

I'd still have a Datsun 510 or a BMW 2002 though...I'm just like that.

2002 r0x0rs...

indeed. I saw two in the same parking lot once, it made my day! I've never seen a 510 in person though.

 

[boyRacer]

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: boyRacer

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: johneetrash

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Personally I would rather have a Miata, an old late 60s early 70s american muscle car, an old British Roadster, or an older Porsche (944, 924), or a Datsun 510

you forgot one. e36 m3!

<-- frequents the car lounge

hehe...the e36 m3 wins all and the 1.8T NEVER LOSES!!

I'd still have a Datsun 510 or a BMW 2002 though...I'm just like that.

2002 r0x0rs...

indeed. I saw two in the same parking lot once, it made my day! I've never seen a 510 in person though.

the only 510 i saw had a 13b swap done... the only 2002s ive seen looks like they weren't taken cared of... poor cars.

 

[cressida]

oh

 

[LAUST]

Yeah, I don't even own a race vehicle,

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Originally posted by: LAUST

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: LAUST
So when does all the bragging about sh!t you people don't even own get over and you punks get to the track on your own for some REAL racing off the bench type stuff?

There's more to enjoying a car than taking it to the track! I haven't disputed the performance of any of the cars.

Personally I would rather have a Miata, an old late 60s early 70s american muscle car, an old British Roadster, or an older Porsche (944, 924), or a Datsun 510 than a brand new SRT4, WRX, etc..not to say those cars are bad, but I'd rather have some old cars that don't need the track to be exposed to their limit (save for the American Muscle car).

NFS4: I still don't agree with you on what you said regarding the cross-shopping. A lot of those *kiddie* ricers buy an RSX, Celica GTS for the sole purpose of modding. Maybe its not like that in your area, but over here in TO, the Celicas/RSX/etc.. are all riced out. Just as bad as the Civics. That said, there are some fast ones out there.

And if you talk to any of those owners, they are all hyped up about the SRT4 and would consider it.

Yeah, I don't even own a race vehicle, I took my truck up to the track as a substitute for a Club Clash team of a long time friend for 2 season events, havent been to the track since, my truck is by no means fast, it's just got power to tow like a mofo.

Point is you can't brag about sh!t you don't own in the first place.

That is true. But it is fun to dream isn't it? Espeically for us young uns, it motivates us to work harder in school to attain our dreams.

Cuase I when I see poeple like you, Miilenium, notfred, Windogg, etc.. and others who get to spend big money on their vehicles it inspires me to do the same.

 

[LAUST]

I'm not remotely against that, I just don't like the "This is the best of the best and nothing can challenge that cause my opinion pwnes me" type stuff

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Originally posted by: LAUST

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: LAUST

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: LAUST
So when does all the bragging about sh!t you people don't even own get over and you punks get to the track on your own for some REAL racing off the bench type stuff?

There's more to enjoying a car than taking it to the track! I haven't disputed the performance of any of the cars.

Personally I would rather have a Miata, an old late 60s early 70s american muscle car, an old British Roadster, or an older Porsche (944, 924), or a Datsun 510 than a brand new SRT4, WRX, etc..not to say those cars are bad, but I'd rather have some old cars that don't need the track to be exposed to their limit (save for the American Muscle car).

NFS4: I still don't agree with you on what you said regarding the cross-shopping. A lot of those *kiddie* ricers buy an RSX, Celica GTS for the sole purpose of modding. Maybe its not like that in your area, but over here in TO, the Celicas/RSX/etc.. are all riced out. Just as bad as the Civics. That said, there are some fast ones out there.

And if you talk to any of those owners, they are all hyped up about the SRT4 and would consider it.

Yeah, I don't even own a race vehicle, I took my truck up to the track as a substitute for a Club Clash team of a long time friend for 2 season events, havent been to the track since, my truck is by no means fast, it's just got power to tow like a mofo.

Point is you can't brag about sh!t you don't own in the first place.

That is true. But it is fun to dream isn't it? Espeically for us young uns, it motivates us to work harder in school to attain our dreams.

Cuase I when I see poeple like you, Miilenium, notfred, Windogg, etc.. and others who get to spend big money on their vehicles it inspires me to do the same.

I'm not remotly aginst that, I just don't like the "This is the best of the best and nothing can challenge that cause my opinion pwnes me" type stuff

Don't worry mAD you are in no way guilty of this.

I just wish people would come up with some technical reasons (which you and a few others did) of why one vehicle is better at what they want it to do then another.

Definately! It broadens everyone's knowledge on the car and technicality in question. I think I should raid the "Highly Technical" forum area with car tech questions! Btw what do you do for a living to be able to afford to mod the Truck and feed it as well?

 

[LAUST]

You seem to have gobbled up quite abit of knowledge yourself looking at your posts in this thread alone, I'm sure you can answer many technical questions yourself.

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Originally posted by: LAUST

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Definately! It broadens everyone's knowledge on the car and technicality in question. I think I should raid the "Highly Technical" forum area with car tech questions! Btw what do you do for a living to be able to afford to mod the Truck and feed it as well?

You seem to have gobbled up quite abit of knowledge yourself looking at your posts in this thread alone, I'm sure you can answer many technical questions yourself.

Just doin networking/systems for almost 11 years now... actually I havent really dumped a lot into my truck as far as $$$.. the most expensive part was my blower I got for just under $3000... the next thing was my PCM programmer was about $500, but well worth it to be able to program my own system, nice for dumping different tunes for towing or just street, plus I back down the power a lot in the winter or else I get 4 wheel slide everywhere

hehe. this site, maxima.org and forums.vwvortex.com are my main sources of knowledge. there are some crazy folks on those forums that give a lot of detail on what they do.

They had networks 11 years ago?

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: LAUST
So when does all the bragging about sh!t you people don't even own get over and you punks get to the track on your own for some REAL racing off the bench type stuff?

There's more to enjoying a car than taking it to the track! I haven't disputed the performance of any of the cars.

Personally I would rather have a Miata, an old late 60s early 70s american muscle car, an old British Roadster, or an older Porsche (944, 924), or a Datsun 510 than a brand new SRT4, WRX, etc..not to say those cars are bad, but I'd rather have some old cars that don't need the track to be exposed to their limit (save for the American Muscle car).

NFS4: I still don't agree with you on what you said regarding the cross-shopping. A lot of those *kiddie* ricers buy an RSX, Celica GTS for the sole purpose of modding. Maybe its not like that in your area, but over here in TO, the Celicas/RSX/etc.. are all riced out. Just as bad as the Civics. That said, there are some fast ones out there.

And if you talk to any of those owners, they are all hyped up about the SRT4 and would consider it.

I don't know where you live, but the chances of you seeing a riced out RSX, WRX, SVT Focus, or Celica GTS is slim to none around here. I'll repeat yet again, these cars are targeted at more wealthy, older buying audience than riced out Civics (and hence the market that Dodge is after...youthful speed freaks). The average age for people that buy cars of this type are in their 30's and 40's; typically buyers who could care less about ricing out or slamming their cars. They are more concerned with mortgages and stock portfolios and their kids grades in school.

Average age of buyer (courtesy of MSN Autos):

RSX - 31
WRX - 43
SVT Focus - 45
Celica GTS - 43

Average income (courtesy of MSN Autos):

RSX - $63,572
WRX - $74,276
SVT Focus - $45,566
Celica GTS - $67,441

Your average Civic ricer (the market the SRT-4 is after) is going to been in his/her teens - early twenties and has less money to spend on a vehicle than an RSX/WRX/SVT Focus/Celica GTS owner.

I REST MY CASE

LOL, the funny thing is, even the ricers (Fast and the Furious 2 producers) were doggin' on the Neon SRT-4. LMAO

Now before you think The Fast and the Furious 2 is totally indiscriminate in the cars it cast, consider this: ?Dodge wanted Neons, the SRTs, in the film, but the director wasn?t going for it,? says Moser. ?When you have Skylines and Evos, it?s hard to put in a Neon.?

http://autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=reviews&loc_code=index&content_code=03122486

 

[ElFenix]

i bet those numbers have a lot of people co-signing or buying those cars for their kids in there.

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: LAUST
So when does all the bragging about sh!t you people don't even own get over and you punks get to the track on your own for some REAL racing off the bench type stuff?

There's more to enjoying a car than taking it to the track! I haven't disputed the performance of any of the cars.

Personally I would rather have a Miata, an old late 60s early 70s american muscle car, an old British Roadster, or an older Porsche (944, 924), or a Datsun 510 than a brand new SRT4, WRX, etc..not to say those cars are bad, but I'd rather have some old cars that don't need the track to be exposed to their limit (save for the American Muscle car).

NFS4: I still don't agree with you on what you said regarding the cross-shopping. A lot of those *kiddie* ricers buy an RSX, Celica GTS for the sole purpose of modding. Maybe its not like that in your area, but over here in TO, the Celicas/RSX/etc.. are all riced out. Just as bad as the Civics. That said, there are some fast ones out there.

And if you talk to any of those owners, they are all hyped up about the SRT4 and would consider it.

I don't know where you live, but the chances of you seeing a riced out RSX, WRX, SVT Focus, or Celica GTS is slim to none around here. I'll repeat yet again, these cars are targeted at more wealthy, older buying audience than riced out Civics (and hence the market that Dodge is after...youthful speed freaks). The average age for people that buy cars of this type are in their 30's and 40's; typically buyers who could care less about ricing out or slamming their cars. They are more concerned with mortgages and stock portfolios and their kids grades in school.

Average age of buyer (courtesy of MSN Autos):

RSX - 31
WRX - 43
SVT Focus - 45
Celica GTS - 43

Average income (courtesy of MSN Autos):

RSX - $63,572
WRX - $74,276
SVT Focus - $45,566
Celica GTS - $67,441

Your average Civic ricer (the market the SRT-4 is after) is going to been in his/her teens - early twenties and has less money to spend on a vehicle than an RSX/WRX/SVT Focus/Celica GTS owner.

I REST MY CASE

LOL, the funny thing is, even the ricers (Fast and the Furious 2 producers) were doggin' on the Neon SRT-4. LMAO

Now before you think The Fast and the Furious 2 is totally indiscriminate in the cars it cast, consider this: ?Dodge wanted Neons, the SRTs, in the film, but the director wasn?t going for it,? says Moser. ?When you have Skylines and Evos, it?s hard to put in a Neon.?

http://autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=reviews&loc_code=index&content_code=03122486

Your numbers seem skewed. Over here, if you come see high school parking lots, they are filled with Celicas, RSX (my high school friend bought one and he works at the Mandarin to pay off the monthly payments), WRX. If you look at drivers of these cars, they are mostly young orientals.

Also the numbers you posted show the AVERAGE. The US and Canada has diverse local societies where in one city you may see something and in another you may see something else. I could care less what MSN Auto thinks. From what I see in my area, the owners of the above cars are mostly 20-somethings and even under-20 people. If you attend any car club meets of the above cars or even peek at their forums, they all give the SRT4 respect and would consider one. The SRT4 is an enthusiast's car and I'm speaking from an enthusiasts point of view. The Celica/WRX/RSX enthusiasts all give praise to the SRT4 and wouldn't mind buying one (except for the WRX guys tho, they want their AWD ). Just check out their forums. Numbers are one thing, but enthusiasm and love for driver are another.

Just look outside of published numbers and surveys and actually listen and read what the people who buy these cars are actually saying! Dodge just levelled the competition with their offering, its pretty much what the DSMs did 10 years ago!

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: LAUST
So when does all the bragging about sh!t you people don't even own get over and you punks get to the track on your own for some REAL racing off the bench type stuff?

There's more to enjoying a car than taking it to the track! I haven't disputed the performance of any of the cars.

Personally I would rather have a Miata, an old late 60s early 70s american muscle car, an old British Roadster, or an older Porsche (944, 924), or a Datsun 510 than a brand new SRT4, WRX, etc..not to say those cars are bad, but I'd rather have some old cars that don't need the track to be exposed to their limit (save for the American Muscle car).

NFS4: I still don't agree with you on what you said regarding the cross-shopping. A lot of those *kiddie* ricers buy an RSX, Celica GTS for the sole purpose of modding. Maybe its not like that in your area, but over here in TO, the Celicas/RSX/etc.. are all riced out. Just as bad as the Civics. That said, there are some fast ones out there.

And if you talk to any of those owners, they are all hyped up about the SRT4 and would consider it.

I don't know where you live, but the chances of you seeing a riced out RSX, WRX, SVT Focus, or Celica GTS is slim to none around here. I'll repeat yet again, these cars are targeted at more wealthy, older buying audience than riced out Civics (and hence the market that Dodge is after...youthful speed freaks). The average age for people that buy cars of this type are in their 30's and 40's; typically buyers who could care less about ricing out or slamming their cars. They are more concerned with mortgages and stock portfolios and their kids grades in school.

Average age of buyer (courtesy of MSN Autos):

RSX - 31
WRX - 43
SVT Focus - 45
Celica GTS - 43

Average income (courtesy of MSN Autos):

RSX - $63,572
WRX - $74,276
SVT Focus - $45,566
Celica GTS - $67,441

Your average Civic ricer (the market the SRT-4 is after) is going to been in his/her teens - early twenties and has less money to spend on a vehicle than an RSX/WRX/SVT Focus/Celica GTS owner.

I REST MY CASE

LOL, the funny thing is, even the ricers (Fast and the Furious 2 producers) were doggin' on the Neon SRT-4. LMAO

Now before you think The Fast and the Furious 2 is totally indiscriminate in the cars it cast, consider this: ?Dodge wanted Neons, the SRTs, in the film, but the director wasn?t going for it,? says Moser. ?When you have Skylines and Evos, it?s hard to put in a Neon.?

http://autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=reviews&loc_code=index&content_code=03122486

Your numbers seem skewed. Over here, if you come see high school parking lots, they are filled with Celicas, RSX (my high school friend bought one and he works at the Mandarin to pay off the monthly payments), WRX. If you look at drivers of these cars, they are mostly young orientals.

Also the numbers you posted show the AVERAGE. The US and Canada has diverse local societies where in one city you may see something and in another you may see something else. I could care less what MSN Auto thinks. From what I see in my area, the owners of the above cars are mostly 20-somethings and even under-20 people. If you attend any car club meets of the above cars or even peek at their forums, they all give the SRT4 respect and would consider one. The SRT4 is an enthusiast's car and I'm speaking from an enthusiasts point of view. The Celica/WRX/RSX enthusiasts all give praise to the SRT4 and wouldn't mind buying one (except for the WRX guys tho, they want their AWD ). Just check out their forums. Numbers are one thing, but enthusiasm and love for driver are another.

Just look outside of published numbers and surveys and actually listen and read what the people who buy these cars are actually saying! Dodge just levelled the competition with their offering, its pretty much what the DSMs did 10 years ago!

What you see in Canada doesn't really mean jack compared to what is seen here in the US That also goes for the numbers I posted which are US figures. It's easy to say "Oh I see this here" or "I see oriental ricers there," but the demographics I posted speak for themselves. Where I live, and where I have traveled to, I see older people driving the cars I mentioned. That's why I went and found evidence to back up my claims.

Also, the Canadian auto market is a drop in the bucket compared to the US auto market.

 

[Pastore]

Torque steer? Want to talk about torque steer? I have almost blindsided more than one person at 2 lane intersections with my Beretta with 155 HP....

 

[Bullhonkie]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: NFS4

I don't know where you live, but the chances of you seeing a riced out RSX, WRX, SVT Focus, or Celica GTS is slim to none around here. I'll repeat yet again, these cars are targeted at more wealthy, older buying audience than riced out Civics (and hence the market that Dodge is after...youthful speed freaks). The average age for people that buy cars of this type are in their 30's and 40's; typically buyers who could care less about ricing out or slamming their cars. They are more concerned with mortgages and stock portfolios and their kids grades in school.

Average age of buyer (courtesy of MSN Autos):

RSX - 31
WRX - 43
SVT Focus - 45
Celica GTS - 43

Average income (courtesy of MSN Autos):

RSX - $63,572
WRX - $74,276
SVT Focus - $45,566
Celica GTS - $67,441

Your average Civic ricer (the market the SRT-4 is after) is going to been in his/her teens - early twenties and has less money to spend on a vehicle than an RSX/WRX/SVT Focus/Celica GTS owner.

I REST MY CASE

LOL, the funny thing is, even the ricers (Fast and the Furious 2 producers) were doggin' on the Neon SRT-4. LMAO

Now before you think The Fast and the Furious 2 is totally indiscriminate in the cars it cast, consider this: ?Dodge wanted Neons, the SRTs, in the film, but the director wasn?t going for it,? says Moser. ?When you have Skylines and Evos, it?s hard to put in a Neon.?

http://autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=reviews&loc_code=index&content_code=03122486

Your numbers seem skewed. Over here, if you come see high school parking lots, they are filled with Celicas, RSX (my high school friend bought one and he works at the Mandarin to pay off the monthly payments), WRX. If you look at drivers of these cars, they are mostly young orientals.

Also the numbers you posted show the AVERAGE. The US and Canada has diverse local societies where in one city you may see something and in another you may see something else. I could care less what MSN Auto thinks. From what I see in my area, the owners of the above cars are mostly 20-somethings and even under-20 people. If you attend any car club meets of the above cars or even peek at their forums, they all give the SRT4 respect and would consider one. The SRT4 is an enthusiast's car and I'm speaking from an enthusiasts point of view. The Celica/WRX/RSX enthusiasts all give praise to the SRT4 and wouldn't mind buying one (except for the WRX guys tho, they want their AWD ). Just check out their forums. Numbers are one thing, but enthusiasm and love for driver are another.

Just look outside of published numbers and surveys and actually listen and read what the people who buy these cars are actually saying! Dodge just levelled the competition with their offering, its pretty much what the DSMs did 10 years ago!

What you see in Canada doesn't really mean jack compared to what is seen here in the US That also goes for the numbers I posted which are US figures. It's easy to say "Oh I see this here" or "I see oriental ricers there," but the demographics I posted speak for themselves. Where I live, and where I have traveled to, I see older people driving the cars I mentioned. That's why I went and found evidence to back up my claims.

Also, the Canadian auto market is a drop in the bucket compared to the US auto market.

Well I'm from the US of A and I can tell you that at least around here, it's the same story. Check out most of the local high school and community college lots, and there are 'tegs/RSXs, Celicas, Eclipses, WRXs, Civics, etc. all over the place (seems like most are fairly riced out too, sadly). I'd wager that a lot of those average age numbers are skewed by the fact that these kids are often getting their parents to buy these cars, which is EXTREMELY common here in the Silicon Valley area. Mommy and daddy buying IS300s and 3-series cars for their kid as a high school graduation present isn't uncommon. No way these kids pulling in $8/hr from McDonalds part-time can afford these things (or the insurance associated with them), but somehow, they have them. Around here (again keyword being HERE) cruising around town, most of the aforementioned cars are driven by younger looking people more often than not. The latest gen Celicas especially seem to be popular among the younger women crowd for some reason.

Sure the demographics speak for themselves, but they're nationwide averages and don't really show you anything locale-based. And with the vast differences of lifestyle and needs throughout the US, broad nationwide averages aren't really useful for anything other than comparing general trends from year to year.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: Bullhonkie

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: NFS4

I don't know where you live, but the chances of you seeing a riced out RSX, WRX, SVT Focus, or Celica GTS is slim to none around here. I'll repeat yet again, these cars are targeted at more wealthy, older buying audience than riced out Civics (and hence the market that Dodge is after...youthful speed freaks). The average age for people that buy cars of this type are in their 30's and 40's; typically buyers who could care less about ricing out or slamming their cars. They are more concerned with mortgages and stock portfolios and their kids grades in school.

Average age of buyer (courtesy of MSN Autos):

RSX - 31
WRX - 43
SVT Focus - 45
Celica GTS - 43

Average income (courtesy of MSN Autos):

RSX - $63,572
WRX - $74,276
SVT Focus - $45,566
Celica GTS - $67,441

Your average Civic ricer (the market the SRT-4 is after) is going to been in his/her teens - early twenties and has less money to spend on a vehicle than an RSX/WRX/SVT Focus/Celica GTS owner.

I REST MY CASE

LOL, the funny thing is, even the ricers (Fast and the Furious 2 producers) were doggin' on the Neon SRT-4. LMAO

Now before you think The Fast and the Furious 2 is totally indiscriminate in the cars it cast, consider this: ?Dodge wanted Neons, the SRTs, in the film, but the director wasn?t going for it,? says Moser. ?When you have Skylines and Evos, it?s hard to put in a Neon.?

http://autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=reviews&loc_code=index&content_code=03122486

Your numbers seem skewed. Over here, if you come see high school parking lots, they are filled with Celicas, RSX (my high school friend bought one and he works at the Mandarin to pay off the monthly payments), WRX. If you look at drivers of these cars, they are mostly young orientals.

Also the numbers you posted show the AVERAGE. The US and Canada has diverse local societies where in one city you may see something and in another you may see something else. I could care less what MSN Auto thinks. From what I see in my area, the owners of the above cars are mostly 20-somethings and even under-20 people. If you attend any car club meets of the above cars or even peek at their forums, they all give the SRT4 respect and would consider one. The SRT4 is an enthusiast's car and I'm speaking from an enthusiasts point of view. The Celica/WRX/RSX enthusiasts all give praise to the SRT4 and wouldn't mind buying one (except for the WRX guys tho, they want their AWD ). Just check out their forums. Numbers are one thing, but enthusiasm and love for driver are another.

Just look outside of published numbers and surveys and actually listen and read what the people who buy these cars are actually saying! Dodge just levelled the competition with their offering, its pretty much what the DSMs did 10 years ago!

What you see in Canada doesn't really mean jack compared to what is seen here in the US That also goes for the numbers I posted which are US figures. It's easy to say "Oh I see this here" or "I see oriental ricers there," but the demographics I posted speak for themselves. Where I live, and where I have traveled to, I see older people driving the cars I mentioned. That's why I went and found evidence to back up my claims.

Also, the Canadian auto market is a drop in the bucket compared to the US auto market.

Well I'm from the US of A and I can tell you that at least around here, it's the same story. Check out most of the local high school and community college lots, and there are 'tegs/RSXs, Celicas, Eclipses, WRXs, Civics, etc. all over the place (seems like most are fairly riced out too, sadly). I'd wager that a lot of those average age numbers are skewed by the fact that these kids are often getting their parents to buy these cars, which is EXTREMELY common here in the Silicon Valley area. Mommy and daddy buying IS300s and 3-series cars for their kid as a high school graduation present isn't uncommon. No way these kids pulling in $8/hr from McDonalds part-time can afford these things (or the insurance associated with them), but somehow, they have them. Around here (again keyword being HERE) cruising around town, most of the aforementioned cars are driven by younger looking people more often than not. The latest gen Celicas especially seem to be popular among the younger women crowd for some reason.

Sure the demographics speak for themselves, but they're nationwide averages and don't really show you anything locale-based. And with the vast differences of lifestyle and needs throughout the US, broad nationwide averages aren't really useful for anything other than comparing general trends from year to year.

I'd still trust averages over what every Tom, Dick and Harry sees in his high school parking lot. On the campus of NC State, I see mostly beater Camrys and Accords, riced (or plain) Civics and your occasional BMW. Mostly see pickups and low-end SUVs too.

But I'm not going to let what I see in Raleigh, NC dictate what the country as a whole is like.

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Bullhonkie

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: NFS4

I don't know where you live, but the chances of you seeing a riced out RSX, WRX, SVT Focus, or Celica GTS is slim to none around here. I'll repeat yet again, these cars are targeted at more wealthy, older buying audience than riced out Civics (and hence the market that Dodge is after...youthful speed freaks). The average age for people that buy cars of this type are in their 30's and 40's; typically buyers who could care less about ricing out or slamming their cars. They are more concerned with mortgages and stock portfolios and their kids grades in school.

Average age of buyer (courtesy of MSN Autos):

RSX - 31
WRX - 43
SVT Focus - 45
Celica GTS - 43

Average income (courtesy of MSN Autos):

RSX - $63,572
WRX - $74,276
SVT Focus - $45,566
Celica GTS - $67,441

Your average Civic ricer (the market the SRT-4 is after) is going to been in his/her teens - early twenties and has less money to spend on a vehicle than an RSX/WRX/SVT Focus/Celica GTS owner.

I REST MY CASE

LOL, the funny thing is, even the ricers (Fast and the Furious 2 producers) were doggin' on the Neon SRT-4. LMAO

Now before you think The Fast and the Furious 2 is totally indiscriminate in the cars it cast, consider this: ?Dodge wanted Neons, the SRTs, in the film, but the director wasn?t going for it,? says Moser. ?When you have Skylines and Evos, it?s hard to put in a Neon.?

http://autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=reviews&loc_code=index&content_code=03122486

Your numbers seem skewed. Over here, if you come see high school parking lots, they are filled with Celicas, RSX (my high school friend bought one and he works at the Mandarin to pay off the monthly payments), WRX. If you look at drivers of these cars, they are mostly young orientals.

Also the numbers you posted show the AVERAGE. The US and Canada has diverse local societies where in one city you may see something and in another you may see something else. I could care less what MSN Auto thinks. From what I see in my area, the owners of the above cars are mostly 20-somethings and even under-20 people. If you attend any car club meets of the above cars or even peek at their forums, they all give the SRT4 respect and would consider one. The SRT4 is an enthusiast's car and I'm speaking from an enthusiasts point of view. The Celica/WRX/RSX enthusiasts all give praise to the SRT4 and wouldn't mind buying one (except for the WRX guys tho, they want their AWD ). Just check out their forums. Numbers are one thing, but enthusiasm and love for driver are another.

Just look outside of published numbers and surveys and actually listen and read what the people who buy these cars are actually saying! Dodge just levelled the competition with their offering, its pretty much what the DSMs did 10 years ago!

What you see in Canada doesn't really mean jack compared to what is seen here in the US That also goes for the numbers I posted which are US figures. It's easy to say "Oh I see this here" or "I see oriental ricers there," but the demographics I posted speak for themselves. Where I live, and where I have traveled to, I see older people driving the cars I mentioned. That's why I went and found evidence to back up my claims.

Also, the Canadian auto market is a drop in the bucket compared to the US auto market.

Well I'm from the US of A and I can tell you that at least around here, it's the same story. Check out most of the local high school and community college lots, and there are 'tegs/RSXs, Celicas, Eclipses, WRXs, Civics, etc. all over the place (seems like most are fairly riced out too, sadly). I'd wager that a lot of those average age numbers are skewed by the fact that these kids are often getting their parents to buy these cars, which is EXTREMELY common here in the Silicon Valley area. Mommy and daddy buying IS300s and 3-series cars for their kid as a high school graduation present isn't uncommon. No way these kids pulling in $8/hr from McDonalds part-time can afford these things (or the insurance associated with them), but somehow, they have them. Around here (again keyword being HERE) cruising around town, most of the aforementioned cars are driven by younger looking people more often than not. The latest gen Celicas especially seem to be popular among the younger women crowd for some reason.

Sure the demographics speak for themselves, but they're nationwide averages and don't really show you anything locale-based. And with the vast differences of lifestyle and needs throughout the US, broad nationwide averages aren't really useful for anything other than comparing general trends from year to year.

I'd still trust averages over what every Tom, Dick and Harry sees in his high school parking lot. On the campus of NC State, I see mostly beater Camrys and Accords, riced (or plain) Civics and your occasional BMW. Mostly see pickups and low-end SUVs too.

But I'm not going to let what I see in Raleigh, NC dictate what the country as a whole is like.

We aren't talking about hte country at whole. We are talking about the market of WRX/RSX-S/Celica GTS/SRT4 which is the enthusiast market. I don't see how a bunch of numbers should even matter. Those are probably skewed anyway because it doesn't account WHO the real driver of the car is. The buyer and the driver could very well be two different people for these cars.

And I don't trust the numbers, I trust what the enthusaists are saying because the market DOES listen to them. Do you think that Subaru decided the facelift the WRX on their own? No, they listened to what the Enthusiasts complained about! Do you think Infiniti decided to redo the rear-trunk section just like that? No its the enthusiasts that did.

Don't think those market averages matter because they don't tell the whole story. Face it, the WRX/GTS (Celica)/Focus SVT/RSX-S and SRT4 are all in the same catagory, the sport compact catogery. Dont' believe me? Read the magazines since you like published material. SCC, the same magazine that has features and project cars based on the RSX, Celica, SVT, SE-R claimed that SRT4 was the Sport Compact Car of the Year for them. Those magazines have ads for RSX/SVT/etc.. because the buyers of those cars read those magazines.

You cannot deny the fact that those cars are competing against each other because they are, and Dodge just layed their trump card.

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: LAUST


Also, the Canadian auto market is a drop in the bucket compared to the US auto market.

NFS4 posted the above quote, somehow i screwed up the formatting to make it look like LAUST posted it.

That I agree with. but those published numbers mean nothing. I still stand that thoes cars compete against each other. You don't have to agree with me and I don't really care cause its not worth arguing about, but just go browse the car forums, any of them and see what people are saying.

Sometimes its more than the stats.