solofly
Banned
- May 25, 2003
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Originally posted by: taltamir
who provides a lifetime warranty to ATI cards?
Visiontek (and lets hope XFX will too)
Originally posted by: taltamir
who provides a lifetime warranty to ATI cards?
Originally posted by: chizow
Ouch, no overclocked offering. Guess XFX found out what we already knew, AMD parts just aren't very good at overclocking.
Originally posted by: taltamir
They ARE lower quality, that is why nvidia cards overclock better, nvidia gives wider tolerances, wide enough that 3 partners can offer lifetime warranty. If AMD wanted that they would reduce the speed of their cards so that they last long enough to justify such a warranty. Or it could be the XFX intends to manufacture their own PCBs, with higher quality components, and thus longer operational life.
which indicates btw, that is not the actual GPU that is failing
And by lower quality I mean cheaper transistors, power circuitry that can handle less voltage, cooling solutions, etc. Which is conjecture based on their lower overclockability.
All stuff that is changeable by the OEM and is completely separate than the GPU itself. The GPUs (nvidia's and AMDs) are both manufactured by TSMC if I am not mistaken. So that is why I am hoping XFX will start making higher quality ATI boards, with quality cooling, quality PCBs, quality power circuitry, etc. We could really start overclocking those 4xxx boards than
Originally posted by: Ares202
Maybe if you come back with proof of that then we can discuss it, until then thats just opinionated BS
Originally posted by: solofly
Keep it on topic, this isn't about POS nvidia and how much better they overclock. My 8800GTX runs hotter than any other video card own so there.
Originally posted by: solofly
Who made you a mod here? What a joke...
Originally posted by: solofly
Who made you a mod here? What a joke...
Originally posted by: Ares202
Originally posted by: chizow
Ouch, no overclocked offering. Guess XFX found out what we already knew, AMD parts just aren't very good at overclocking.
A statement like "ATI cards dont overclock well" is simply fanboyism, i can name cards that can overclock fantastically well from the ATI side for example i remember a friend overclocking his x1800xl a couple of years ago from 1100mhz memory all the way to 1610mhz which is like a 50% overclock, something ive never seen on any other graphics card
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003How is he supposed to prove an opinion? Because that's all it really is based on his own speculation
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003I think that it is just that ATI releases it's GPU's at near it's max clocks right from the start, which could be why they run hot, and do not have much headroom without voltmods or water.Could "possibly" be the transistor design. I mean, a 55nm RV770 is pushing it's limits with stock voltage at around 800 to 825MHz. Meanwhile, with almost twice the transistors and on one manufacturing process higher (65nm), G200 can sit at 700MHz quite comfortably with stock voltages. So, perhaps something can be said for design. It's all speculation though.
Which is the crux of the matter, they would if they could.Sorry, but you've got it wrong. If ATi cards could overclock so well, (and we are talking about the 4XXX series here, which is what is relevant) why dont the board partners release higher clocked parts? It is pure profit for them to flash the bios and add a "OC" sticker to the box. A 50mhz OC is not exactly great....
Originally posted by: solofly
What problem is you and rollo are the cause for every fight in every thread on this forum. I'm just tired (and Im sure I speak for most when I say this) of reading the same shit over and over without end. Because of people like I'm so sick of nvidia and everything they stand for. There is nothing I hate more than a liar and a salesman.
I think that it is just that ATI releases it's GPU's at near it's max clocks right from the start, which could be why they run hot, and do not have much headroom without voltmods or water.
I'd consider overclocks more than a 2.5% speedbump a "good" overclock. With enough voltage and exotic cooling you can hit 800+MHz with GT200s but that's neither here nor there. We're talking about why board vendors who offer parts from both vendors (Asus, MSI, Palit/Gainward, Zotac/Sapphire and now XFX) offer amazing overclocked parts for Nvidia but underwhelming offerings for AMD parts. And this is even with "improved" non-reference cooling.Originally posted by: Ares202
I dont know what you classify as a good overclock but with enough voltage ive seen the rv770 get to 900mhz with volt modding, without id say 820-830mhz was maximum which is 10% kind-of an average for graphics cards
A statement like "ATI cards dont overclock well" is simply fanboyism, i can name cards that can overclock fantastically well from the ATI side for example i remember a friend overclocking his x1800xl a couple of years ago from 1100mhz memory all the way to 1610mhz which is like a 50% overclock, something ive never seen on any other graphics card
Got any kind of link to substantiate this?Secondly up until about 2 years ago ATI had a ban on manufacturers overclocking there cards out of the box and i think it is still very conservative about that sort of thing
They designed an excessively hot GPU, which is par for the course for them.ATI designed the chip, not the motherboard that it was going to be soldered on to so therefore thats not ATI's fault as you have just said yourself, TBH i blame the failures on cutting corners with cost of manufacture
Rofl.Maybe if you come back with proof of that then we can discuss it, until then thats just opinionated BS
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: Ares202
Maybe if you come back with proof of that then we can discuss it, until then thats just opinionated BS
How is he supposed to prove an opinion? Because that's all it really is based on his own speculation. I think that it is just that ATI releases it's GPU's at near it's max clocks right from the start, which could be why they run hot, and do not have much headroom without voltmods or water. Could "possibly" be the transistor design. I mean, a 55nm RV770 is pushing it's limits with stock voltage at around 800 to 825MHz. Meanwhile, with almost twice the transistors and on one manufacturing process higher (65nm), G200 can sit at 700MHz quite comfortably with stock voltages. So, perhaps something can be said for design. It's all speculation though.
Originally posted by: chizow
This has nothing to do with fanboyism, its historical FACT. Feel free to compile a list of max factory overclocked parts for both Nvidia and ATI over the last 10 years and I'd be shocked if there was a single flagship from ATI that had a higher % overclock than Nvidia's flagship for any given GPU generation.
Got any kind of link to substantiate this?
They designed an excessively hot GPU, which is par for the course for them.
Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
However bad news for the original ATi partners Hopefully this will make the other board partners to work harder and offer better support/services/warranties for their products, something thats been lacking for a very long time.
Originally posted by: solofly
Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
However bad news for the original ATi partners Hopefully this will make the other board partners to work harder and offer better support/services/warranties for their products, something thats been lacking for a very long time.
That's what I'm hoping for...
OK so lets look at the parts in the last 2 years, since you've already acknowledge factory overclocks aren't in the same league, lets pair up generational competitors:Originally posted by: Ares202
i dont think factory overclock is a fair judge, because as i said before Nvidia has more competition and is less conservative to board manufacturers, if you could compile some good overclocks from the 7xxx/8xxx/gtxxx on water then radeon 1xxx/2xxx/3xxx/4xxx series data then that would be a fair judge i think you would find that ATI cards overclock well, but the fans are always set to low rpms as standard so that they get hot
a little known fact that people seem to have forgotten my friend (date march 13th 2006)
ATI allows overclocked graphics cards to be sold
http://www.techspot.com/news/2...-chips-to-be-sold.html
Originally posted by: solofly
What problem is you and rollo are the cause for every fight in every thread on this forum. I'm just tired (and Im sure I speak for most when I say this) of reading the same shit over and over without end. Because of people like I'm so sick of nvidia and everything they stand for. There is nothing I hate more than a liar and a salesman.
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: solofly
What problem is you and rollo are the cause for every fight in every thread on this forum. I'm just tired (and Im sure I speak for most when I say this) of reading the same shit over and over without end. Because of people like I'm so sick of nvidia and everything they stand for. There is nothing I hate more than a liar and a salesman.
How do you feel about people who fling out accusations on a whim? Unprovoked, and suddenly erupt with anger far greater than what was ever needed for the situation that exists only in their own minds? People hate because they choose to hate. It's a conscious choice.
Now, so that we can get back on with this thread so people can express their opinions, like I and so many others were happily doing, what do you say you cut out all this drama. Please.
And I would edit out that mod comment before another mod sees it. You'd most likely get a maximum of a week for that, or definitely a warning at bare minimum. Everything else you say is fine, just leave the mods out of it.