XFX Radeons to be Available January 5th

Page 3 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,209
50
91
Originally posted by: Ares202
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003How is he supposed to prove an opinion? Because that's all it really is based on his own speculation
i dont think he was suggesting anything, he said that "They ARE lower quality" by saying this hes suggesting that he knows, therfore IMO he has to backup the statement

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003I think that it is just that ATI releases it's GPU's at near it's max clocks right from the start, which could be why they run hot, and do not have much headroom without voltmods or water.Could "possibly" be the transistor design. I mean, a 55nm RV770 is pushing it's limits with stock voltage at around 800 to 825MHz. Meanwhile, with almost twice the transistors and on one manufacturing process higher (65nm), G200 can sit at 700MHz quite comfortably with stock voltages. So, perhaps something can be said for design. It's all speculation though.
I may be wrong but Doesnt the rv770 have 900 million transistors and the G200 has 1.4b so its not double but i understand what you are saying id personally say its probably the architecture that it was designed greatly affects clock speed like when Intel was pushing 3.6ghz on there p4 chips @ 110nm and AMD could only manage 2.6ghz @ 90nm
True, but the 2.6Ghz AMD was kicking the P4's butt during that time. It all does come down to architecture. I was a bit off on the transistor count, but yes, you got the gist.
Maybe that is why AMD won't offer lifetime warranties. Unsure of how long the cards will last at near top clock speeds at release. Visiontek does offer lifetime warranty AFAIK, so maybe they're the only ones willing to chance it, or they make their own boards? I don't know.
 

RobertR1

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2004
1,113
1
81
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: solofly
What problem is you and rollo are the cause for every fight in every thread on this forum. I'm just tired (and Im sure I speak for most when I say this) of reading the same shit over and over without end. Because of people like I'm so sick of nvidia and everything they stand for. There is nothing I hate more than a liar and a salesman.
How do you feel about people who fling out accusations on a whim? Unprovoked, and suddenly erupt with anger far greater than what was ever needed for the situation that exists only in their own minds? People hate because they choose to hate. It's a conscious choice.

Now, so that we can get back on with this thread so people can express their opinions, like I and so many others were happily doing, what do you say you cut out all this drama. Please.

And I would edit out that mod comment before another mod sees it. You'd most likely get a maximum of a week for that, or definitely a warning at bare minimum. Everything else you say is fine, just leave the mods out of it.
For me, it's not about the mods. It's the concept of someone (2 people in this instance) with a clear incentive to push their company. An online community should be about support and help, yet you two often run around and champion your cause with any 1up opportunity available. Clearly, people such as myself and everyone else devoid of such incentives won't have the time and the obvious motivation to sit there and waste energy debating with two people who are, in a way, working.

It'd be one thing if you two were simply here for nvidia support and abstained from the gpu wars. However, it's the repetitive thread crapping that's pitiful but whatever, if AT feels this is vital to the backbone of their online community, then so be it.

In hindsight, you have certainly work hard for your cards and other possible means of compensation thus I suppose there's some solace in that for you.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
126
Originally posted by: solofly
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: solofly
What problem is you and rollo are the cause for every fight in every thread on this forum. I'm just tired (and Im sure I speak for most when I say this) of reading the same shit over and over without end. Because of people like I'm so sick of nvidia and everything they stand for. There is nothing I hate more than a liar and a salesman.
How do you feel about people who fling out accusations on a whim? Unprovoked, and suddenly erupt with anger far greater than what was ever needed for the situation that exists only in their own minds? People hate because they choose to hate. It's a conscious choice.

Now, so that we can get back on with this thread so people can express their opinions, like I and so many others were happily doing, what do you say you cut out all this drama. Please.

And I would edit out that mod comment before another mod sees it. You'd most likely get a maximum of a week for that, or definitely a warning at bare minimum. Everything else you say is fine, just leave the mods out of it.
I got a better idea. You can BAN me for good.
I know it can get a bit frustrating here these days, it seems anytime there is some sort of pro-AMD thread some Nvidia fanboy comes in and turns it into a flame fest. But it's not worth leaving here or getting banned, there's a LOT of good information that is shared here.

But if you do leave, and this whole thing sours your opinion of computer gaming so much that you never want to game again, can I have your X2? :)
 

Ares202

Senior member
Jun 3, 2007
331
0
71
were not talking about pure speed, just overclockability yes?

X1800 to 7800 = my old 7800gt overclocked quite well, but i also posted that 50% memory overclock on the x1800xl earlier in this topic
X1900/1950 to 7900/7950 = ill take your word for it as didnt own either so i cant say
2900XT to G80 GTS/GTX = id say the 2900xt overclocked better, it used high quality transistors and ive seen gpu-z of 800mhz+ on air when the stock was just over 600mhz whereas the G80 didnt overclock well at all from what i saw, but yeh the chip was insanely hot
3870 to G92 GT/GTS/GTX = G92 clocks high but the damn thing gets so hot you need 3rd party cooling to do so, also didnt they break the 1ghz barrier with the 3870?
4870 to GT200 260/280 = If most gt200's can overclock to 800mhz then fair point

solofly it wouldnt be much of a forum if we all agreed on everything would it?

But yeh you sometimes think if the Nvidia focus group members give there true opinions on alot of things like reccomending the GTX260 over the 4870 1gb when there is a whole $60 difference in price, lots of people use this forum for help and guidance on buying new hardware, once people start promoting stuff its not a forum anymore its just a marketplace
 

videogames101

Diamond Member
Aug 24, 2005
6,777
18
81
Originally posted by: taltamir
Ouch, no overclocked offering. Guess XFX found out what we already knew, AMD parts just aren't very good at overclocking
I'd say it has more to do with inadequate stock cooling on the 4xxx series.
Yes, thats why my 4870 is sitting at 38C with 65% fan with the maximum OC the standard ATI CCC will give you...
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
126
Originally posted by: videogames101
Originally posted by: taltamir
Ouch, no overclocked offering. Guess XFX found out what we already knew, AMD parts just aren't very good at overclocking
I'd say it has more to do with inadequate stock cooling on the 4xxx series.
Yes, thats why my 4870 is sitting at 38C with 65% fan with the maximum OC the standard ATI CCC will give you...
I think most people consider 65% to be too loud. But I agree with what you're saying, the stock cooler (from what I hear, I do not have a reference design) is supposed to be quite good if you turn up the fan a little. For better or worse, AMD went for quietness over temps we are used to seeing.
 

zod96

Platinum Member
May 28, 2007
2,829
43
91
I've got my 4870 at 42 idle and about 58 load with 50% fan speed on my artic cooling twin turbo. And its still dead silent :)
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
126

Qbah

Diamond Member
Oct 18, 2005
3,754
10
81
Originally posted by: SSChevy2001
Here's mine again with the stock ref fan.

Powersaving - idle temp 44c @ 6% fan speed
http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/6544/4870pszg7.jpg

Overclock - load temp 65c @ 40% fan speed
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/736/4870oclu1.jpg
That is a custom downclocked and downvolted BIOS, to be fair :p A regular 4870 idles at 500/900MHz and around 78-80C in a well ventilated closed case at 24% fan speed. That goes to ~90C at load at 24-26% (the fan hardly spins up). Which I didn't mind, however what I did mind was the times it did spin up... very annoying, loud and noticeable! Anything above 35% was very distracting for me... 100% sounded like an old vacuum cleaner :p

I'm wondering if they're (XFX) gonna use some custom cooling though... All the 3rd party coolers do an excellent job - provided you take extra care about cooling the VRMs :) Mine idles at ~45C and loads at 56-ish C - the VRMs hit 120C on Furmark though at 7V... kinda too hot :p Tops at around 105C in regular gaming. 90-ish C at 12V, can hear the fans on my Accelero Twin Turbo though :)
 

SSChevy2001

Senior member
Jul 9, 2008
774
0
0
Originally posted by: Qbah
That is a custom downclocked and downvolted BIOS, to be fair :p A regular 4870 idles at 500/900MHz and around 78-80C in a well ventilated closed case at 24% fan speed. That goes to ~90C at load at 24-26% (the fan hardly spins up). Which I didn't mind, however what I did mind was the times it did spin up... very annoying, loud and noticeable! Anything above 35% was very distracting for me... 100% sounded like an old vacuum cleaner :p

I'm wondering if they're (XFX) gonna use some custom cooling though... All the 3rd party coolers do an excellent job - provided you take extra care about cooling the VRMs :) Mine idles at ~45C and loads at 56-ish C - the VRMs hit 120C on Furmark though at 7V... kinda too hot :p Tops at around 105C in regular gaming. 90-ish C at 12V, can hear the fans on my Accelero Twin Turbo though :)
While I did change mine in the bios, the same can be done via ATT. Just the point that you don't need a aftermarket cooler to have good cooling.

40% fan speed is not hardly loud for people that played on a xbox 360. :)

By the way your VRMs hit 90 while gaming! Even in the screenshot I post mine only hit in the low 70. If you have a stock backplate you can use that with the Twin Turbo.

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1033352119

Originally posted by: SlowSpyder
Hehe... my turn at a little e-peen wagging. ;)

Tell me again about these hot 4870's that don't overclock well. My memory has a slight bump from reference too. ;)
Toxic cooler looks nice I might get one on later to run CF on. What's your VRM temps while gaming with the toxic cooler?
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
you are aware that keys is a CPU moderator! he does not moderate the GPU forum. And also, he would not ban you from doubting his integrity, he would ban you if you were being disruptive... and if you keep on being so disruptive another op might. Really stop it with the personal attacks and take a chill pill solofly.

And I am sorry if my opinion sounded like fact to some people... maybe its because it is such a valid and intelligent opinion that people could easily mistake it for fact :)
 

Wreckage

Banned
Jul 1, 2005
5,529
0
0
Originally posted by: SlowSpyder
Originally posted by: solofly
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: solofly
What problem is you and rollo are the cause for every fight in every thread on this forum. I'm just tired (and Im sure I speak for most when I say this) of reading the same shit over and over without end. Because of people like I'm so sick of nvidia and everything they stand for. There is nothing I hate more than a liar and a salesman.
How do you feel about people who fling out accusations on a whim? Unprovoked, and suddenly erupt with anger far greater than what was ever needed for the situation that exists only in their own minds? People hate because they choose to hate. It's a conscious choice.

Now, so that we can get back on with this thread so people can express their opinions, like I and so many others were happily doing, what do you say you cut out all this drama. Please.

And I would edit out that mod comment before another mod sees it. You'd most likely get a maximum of a week for that, or definitely a warning at bare minimum. Everything else you say is fine, just leave the mods out of it.
I got a better idea. You can BAN me for good.
I know it can get a bit frustrating here these days, it seems anytime there is some sort of pro-AMD thread some Nvidia fanboy comes in and turns it into a flame fest. But it's not worth leaving here or getting banned, there's a LOT of good information that is shared here.

But if you do leave, and this whole thing sours your opinion of computer gaming so much that you never want to game again, can I have your X2? :)
So you are saying it's ok for Solofly to be a D-bag, because he's doing it for free?
 

SickBeast

Lifer
Jul 21, 2000
14,377
18
81
Originally posted by: Wreckage
Originally posted by: SlowSpyder
Originally posted by: solofly
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: solofly
What problem is you and rollo are the cause for every fight in every thread on this forum. I'm just tired (and Im sure I speak for most when I say this) of reading the same shit over and over without end. Because of people like I'm so sick of nvidia and everything they stand for. There is nothing I hate more than a liar and a salesman.
How do you feel about people who fling out accusations on a whim? Unprovoked, and suddenly erupt with anger far greater than what was ever needed for the situation that exists only in their own minds? People hate because they choose to hate. It's a conscious choice.

Now, so that we can get back on with this thread so people can express their opinions, like I and so many others were happily doing, what do you say you cut out all this drama. Please.

And I would edit out that mod comment before another mod sees it. You'd most likely get a maximum of a week for that, or definitely a warning at bare minimum. Everything else you say is fine, just leave the mods out of it.
I got a better idea. You can BAN me for good.
I know it can get a bit frustrating here these days, it seems anytime there is some sort of pro-AMD thread some Nvidia fanboy comes in and turns it into a flame fest. But it's not worth leaving here or getting banned, there's a LOT of good information that is shared here.

But if you do leave, and this whole thing sours your opinion of computer gaming so much that you never want to game again, can I have your X2? :)
So you are saying it's ok for Solofly to be a D-bag, because he's doing it for free?
He's just expressing frustration at all the NV marketing that goes on in here. I've done the same thing. It's hard not to sometimes.
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,068
1,240
126
Originally posted by: solofly

Who made you a mod here? What a joke...
Solofly, this is a mod call-out and it's against the rules of this forum. Please refrain from making such comments in the future.

Video Mod BFG10K.
 

ronnn

Diamond Member
May 22, 2003
3,918
0
71
Originally posted by: SickBeast

He's just expressing frustration at all the NV marketing that goes on in here. I've done the same thing. It's hard not to sometimes.
Has the nvidia guy got the thread locked yet? :laugh:


Anyways guess this is good news for ati - nice to have someone think you are more than a write down.

 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
126
Originally posted by: Wreckage
Originally posted by: SlowSpyder
Originally posted by: solofly
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: solofly
What problem is you and rollo are the cause for every fight in every thread on this forum. I'm just tired (and Im sure I speak for most when I say this) of reading the same shit over and over without end. Because of people like I'm so sick of nvidia and everything they stand for. There is nothing I hate more than a liar and a salesman.
How do you feel about people who fling out accusations on a whim? Unprovoked, and suddenly erupt with anger far greater than what was ever needed for the situation that exists only in their own minds? People hate because they choose to hate. It's a conscious choice.

Now, so that we can get back on with this thread so people can express their opinions, like I and so many others were happily doing, what do you say you cut out all this drama. Please.

And I would edit out that mod comment before another mod sees it. You'd most likely get a maximum of a week for that, or definitely a warning at bare minimum. Everything else you say is fine, just leave the mods out of it.
I got a better idea. You can BAN me for good.
I know it can get a bit frustrating here these days, it seems anytime there is some sort of pro-AMD thread some Nvidia fanboy comes in and turns it into a flame fest. But it's not worth leaving here or getting banned, there's a LOT of good information that is shared here.

But if you do leave, and this whole thing sours your opinion of computer gaming so much that you never want to game again, can I have your X2? :)
So you are saying it's ok for Solofly to be a D-bag, because he's doing it for free?
Nope. I think it's not worth leaving these forums/getting banned because he is worked up about another AMD thread turning into something it shouldn't be. I think he should calm down and enjoy the forums and not get too worked up.


Originally posted by: SSChevy2001

Originally posted by: SlowSpyder
Hehe... my turn at a little e-peen wagging. ;)

Tell me again about these hot 4870's that don't overclock well. My memory has a slight bump from reference too. ;)
Toxic cooler looks nice I might get one on later to run CF on. What's your VRM temps while gaming with the toxic cooler?

I think this will give you what you're looking for. I'm not sure what sensor it is, but I think that's all of them. :)

 

Elfear

Diamond Member
May 30, 2004
7,052
570
126
Originally posted by: chizow
Originally posted by: Ares202
i dont think factory overclock is a fair judge, because as i said before Nvidia has more competition and is less conservative to board manufacturers, if you could compile some good overclocks from the 7xxx/8xxx/gtxxx on water then radeon 1xxx/2xxx/3xxx/4xxx series data then that would be a fair judge i think you would find that ATI cards overclock well, but the fans are always set to low rpms as standard so that they get hot

a little known fact that people seem to have forgotten my friend (date march 13th 2006)
ATI allows overclocked graphics cards to be sold
http://www.techspot.com/news/2...-chips-to-be-sold.html
OK so lets look at the parts in the last 2 years, since you've already acknowledge factory overclocks aren't in the same league, lets pair up generational competitors:

X1800 to 7800 = winner Nvidia
X1900/1950 to 7900/7950 = winner Nvidia
2900XT to G80 GTS/GTX = winner Nvidia
3870 to G92 GT/GTS/GTX = winner Nvidia
4870 to GT200 260/280 = winner Nvidia

Out-of-the-box, stock cooling, stock voltage I don't think there's any question the corresponding Nvidia parts were significantly better overclockers than the ATI parts in both % overclock and % performance gained. The only part in question is perhaps the G80 GTX which wasn't a particularly good overclocker until the A3 revision that also spawned the Ultra. Pulling the volt-mod and water-cool card doesn't do any good as Nvidia cards can do the same and again, end up with higher overclocks.
I'd have to disagree with you about at least one point. In my experience the X1900 series cards overclocked a lot better than the 7800/7900 series cards. The problem was that Nvidia had no way to raise voltage via software like ATI. My 7800GT was very limited until I voltmodded it via soldering on extra hardware. The two X1900XTs I had were some great overclockers because you could increase voltage very quickly and easily via software (didn't even have to flash the bios). Why limit the comparison to stock voltage anyway? If you are imposing that restriction because of warranty purposes, it's already a moot point. None of the ATI partners allowed overclocking period in their warranty conditions. Only one or two Nvidia partners did at the time. So why not compare what the cards could do out-of-the-box for no extra cost or with an aftermarket cooler.
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
Originally posted by: ronnn
Originally posted by: SickBeast

He's just expressing frustration at all the NV marketing that goes on in here. I've done the same thing. It's hard not to sometimes.
Has the nvidia guy got the thread locked yet? :laugh:


Anyways guess this is good news for ati - nice to have someone think you are more than a write down.
didn't you just see BFG say that mod callouts are against the rules? and of the two ops in this thread, I would guess you are refering to keys? well he is not a moderator here as we said. But comments like that will get the thread locked, justifiably. stay on topic.
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
Originally posted by: Elfear
Originally posted by: chizow
Originally posted by: Ares202
i dont think factory overclock is a fair judge, because as i said before Nvidia has more competition and is less conservative to board manufacturers, if you could compile some good overclocks from the 7xxx/8xxx/gtxxx on water then radeon 1xxx/2xxx/3xxx/4xxx series data then that would be a fair judge i think you would find that ATI cards overclock well, but the fans are always set to low rpms as standard so that they get hot

a little known fact that people seem to have forgotten my friend (date march 13th 2006)
ATI allows overclocked graphics cards to be sold
http://www.techspot.com/news/2...-chips-to-be-sold.html
OK so lets look at the parts in the last 2 years, since you've already acknowledge factory overclocks aren't in the same league, lets pair up generational competitors:

X1800 to 7800 = winner Nvidia
X1900/1950 to 7900/7950 = winner Nvidia
2900XT to G80 GTS/GTX = winner Nvidia
3870 to G92 GT/GTS/GTX = winner Nvidia
4870 to GT200 260/280 = winner Nvidia

Out-of-the-box, stock cooling, stock voltage I don't think there's any question the corresponding Nvidia parts were significantly better overclockers than the ATI parts in both % overclock and % performance gained. The only part in question is perhaps the G80 GTX which wasn't a particularly good overclocker until the A3 revision that also spawned the Ultra. Pulling the volt-mod and water-cool card doesn't do any good as Nvidia cards can do the same and again, end up with higher overclocks.
I'd have to disagree with you about at least one point. In my experience the X1900 series cards overclocked a lot better than the 7800/7900 series cards. The problem was that Nvidia had no way to raise voltage via software like ATI. My 7800GT was very limited until I voltmodded it via soldering on extra hardware. The two X1900XTs I had were some great overclockers because you could increase voltage very quickly and easily via software (didn't even have to flash the bios). Why limit the comparison to stock voltage anyway? If you are imposing that restriction because of warranty purposes, it's already a moot point. None of the ATI partners allowed overclocking period in their warranty conditions. Only one or two Nvidia partners did at the time. So why not compare what the cards could do out-of-the-box for no extra cost or with an aftermarket cooler.
it is impossible to detect if someone overclocked a chip.
 

ArchAngel777

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
5,223
61
91
Hold on here, I see some bullshit. Keys has explicitly said that if he is speaking as a mod, he will BOLD his post. When he responded to Solofly, it was not in bold, thus he was not speaking as a moderator, but as a member. So, Solofly repsonded to his NON bolded post about who made him mod, which he was not (No bolded text). Therefore, it was not a mod call out. This is why I call the whole mod/member thing bullshit. They can basically chose when they are mods and it is so damn arbitrary.

Regardless, I just had to get that off my chest. Something I have been seeing in these forums over the past few months.
 

ArchAngel777

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
5,223
61
91
Originally posted by: taltamir


it is impossible to detect if someone overclocked a chip.
Whether or not they can detect an overclock is a moot point, as ethically, you should not try and claim warranty when you have knowningly violated it. You wouldn't do that, would you?

 

ASK THE COMMUNITY