XFX Bilking the masses - replacing GDDR5 memory with DDR3

[TheDarkKnight]

AMD does not sell cards, board vendors due. Here is some suggestions for the next time you spend money on a product: read the label, the title of it, the specifications. Do you buy a car because Ford says it comes with power seats and windows without confirming this in the actual car?

This ordeal is your fault, nobody else. YOU purchased the wrong product.

No doubt my fault. I think I've said that at least once in the thread but I'll say it again because it seems to make people feel good about themselves. My fault. I purchased the wrong product. Nothing to do with the point I have been trying to make from the beginning of the thread, but yeah, its my fault. No one held a gun to my head. That is an undisputable fact.

 

[Idontcare]

Do we really need this thread to notify people that card makers make non-reference cards..? Sometimes they are slower cheaper cards, sometimes they bump up the speed.

In all honesty I think the answer is yes.

It would only go to help people avoid incurring buyer's remorse as well as promoting product awareness.

I recently purchased a Vertex 3, I almost purchased a Vertex 3 OEM thinking that OCZ would only label it an OEM drive because it was not in retail packaging or would come with a reduced warranty.

Not so with OCZ, the OEM version of the vertex 3 is truly a different SSD altogether, different NAND, different performance, different reliability, etc.

I only realized this upon doing some google searches for the specific model number that I had sitting in my newegg cart. Then I realized my ignorance, educated myself and eliminated it, and proceeded to make an educated purchase.

Consumers do owe it to themselves to rise above their own ignorance. No one is going to do that for you for free except your parents and your fellow forum colleagues, and in both cases the free schooling is going to come with a bucket or two of tough love as this thread proves.

 

[DaveSimmons]

No doubt my fault. I think I've said that at least once in the thread but I'll say it again because it seems to make people feel good about themselves. My fault. I purchased the wrong product. Nothing to do with the point I have been trying to make from the beginning of the thread, but yeah, its my fault. No one held a gun to my head. That is an undisputable fact.

Most of us seem to disagree with your point, and especially the thread title singling out XFX.

It might be nice if for both AMD and nvidia, that any non-reference design was required to change the model, adding GS, SE, OC, QQ, whatever.

But: your title is still 100% wrong in that this is standard industry practice for both GPU families and most card manufacturers.

And just changing 6670 to 6670QQ still won't save people like you from themselves if they are not paying attention -- you ignored Newegg's listing DDR3 in the item title, you might just as eaily have skipped over the QQ or ZP or SE.

Edit: I suppose in a rainbows and unicorns world AMD/nvidia might require any non-reference design to use an entirely different model number too, so 6665 instead of 6670, or not allow sellig cheaper models with cheaper RAM at all.

 

[Madcatatlas]

The masses don't have a clue about the difference in speed between DDR3 and GDDR5. I was part of the masses until now.

The masses as you put it, get presented with this scenario: higher numbers ie. ddr5 versus ddr3 -> price premium for the ddr5 version.
Logical conclusion: the ddr5 costs more and likely performs better, in addition it has the number 5 on it, anyone, buying ANY tech has come to understand that a higher number means its newer.

No need for comments about GPU generations etc from members here, the point is stuff that the masses care about. Ipad2 is newer than Ipad. Iphone 4 is newer than Iphone3 etc.



In the end, as you said yourself, yes its your mistake. In addition to making a purchasing mistake, you are, according to several posters here, targeting XFX in your title and saying they have bad business practices. Thats two mistakes, as pointed out by several members here, this is usual business practice. Personally i dont like XFX and i think their products are subpar, thats my personal opinion.

Conclusion: the masses are not blind, nor ignorant of logic or shy to ask questions before they buy. I realise i may have to much faith in them masses..

 

[taltamir]

I puposely used xxxx and never mentioned a specific company.
Not once in this thread have I said, Nvidia or AMD....

Completely irrelevant to anything I said. I was not accusing you of being an nvidia/amd fanboy.

had no updated reviews for your slower card

You keep on saying that as if this is somehow pertinent, relevant, their fault, or supports your argument that they are cheating people.

Guess what, my Honda Accord is the VP model (value pack) and has less horsepower, better gas milage, and drum breaks instead of disk breaks on 2 wheels, plus a myriad other changes... and guess what, car review sites have rebviewed the standard package or the EX 6 cylinder package. I researched it and decided that the changed spec were worth it based on the data published by honda... because there were no reviews for the VP model.

Do we really need this thread to notify people that card makers make non-reference cards

It is a good idea to clarify that for people who might not otherwise notice it. But this thread and the claims made by some are inflammatory and whiny beyond reason.

 

[TheDarkKnight]

Most of us seem to disagree with your point, and especially the thread title singling out XFX.

You didn't read the entire thread. I simply used XFX as an example because thats who I feel I was personally misled by. If other videocard manufacturers are doing the same thing then I would make the same assertion. Its a very deceptive practice to sell two videocards with identical model numbers with such a substantial difference in performance.

It might be nice if for both AMD and nvidia, that any non-reference design was required to change the model, adding GS, SE, OC, QQ, whatever.

But: your title is still 100% wrong in that this is standard industry practice for both GPU families and most card manufacturers.

So to translate your statement into plain english, "Since everybody is doing it, it must be okay". Got it.

And just changing 6670 to 6670QQ still won't save people like you from themselves if they are not paying attention -- you ignored Newegg's listing DDR3 in the item title, you might just as eaily have skipped over the QQ or ZP or SE.

LOL. Why do I feel like Im listening to a broken record? I didn't ignore the DDR3 description. I had no knowledge of the vast performance difference between DDR3 and GDDR5. I am a person who has always assumed model numbers meant something. I heavily researched the differences between a GeForce 8800GT, 8800GTS, and 8800GTX. I figured they actually meant they were different and they were. Now, if a videocard manufacturer actually put six different versions of any of the aforementioned products on the market, I can say with all honestly, in retrospect, that I got ****ed and didnt even know it. Because I would have never thought there were major differences between EDIT: "the same" model numbers. However, I am learning that the videocard industry seems to be the exception to the rule.

Edit: I suppose in a rainbows and unicorns world AMD/nvidia might require any non-reference design to use an entirely different model number too, so 6665 instead of 6670, or not allow sellig cheaper models with cheaper RAM at all.

I have an idea. Lets do away with model numbers because its easier just to read 44 different bullet points every time we make a purchase. Instead of just saying, yeah I want the 6670. Hell, Im all for that. I don't have anything else to do in life.

 

[taltamir]

People keep on throwing the claim that half the memory bandwidth = half the performance.
This is an utterly ridiculous claim.
Not the same card but a quick google search for DDR3 vs GDDR5 shows this:
GeForce GT 440 512 MB GDDR5 vs. 1 GB DDR3 Video Card Review

Notice how the GDDR5 is between 4% and 13% faster.

And here is the card the op ordered:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150542
Here is the GDDR5 version from XFX:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150545

 

[apoppin]

Whats with taking it personal apoppin? "lifer" was a direct comment at your posting record and that you have been here for a long time, there was nothing you should have taken personally in that. And i never said YOUR reviews were worthless, infact i appreciate the work you and BFG put down and also your presence on this forum. I think its sad and downright childish that you took that personally AND trew me an insult. Thanks.

What made you think that i took it personally? i just tossed it right back at you in the same spirit of your posting this about me:

Well to conclude on "apoppin and his "lifer" status on Anandtech forums", and make a point,

i just made the comment that in this case there was no point - hence your "review" of me was worthless.
-- If you made no insult, then neither did i.

Is this what your here for now? to make snide comments at posters all the while trowing us bones about your next reviews/previews, in hopes of luring some of us over to your site?, this coupled with your insult..well i just dont know what to make of it.

No snide comment - a genuine one that this thread has some educational value and it is not worthless as the person to whom i was replying implied.

"Luring you?"


RotFL

. . . "want some candy, little girl?"
:wub:

Sorry but our contest is over and we have no more prizes to give away.
:'(

 

[Keysplayr]

Would everyone be ok with XFX suddenly releasing 6970's with GDDR3?
Or 6950's? Or 6870's or 6850's? From the ridiculous arguments appearing in this thread about how it's "just fine" that this happens, I guess it would be "just fine"?
Or would you want those particular cards renamed to reflect the performance reduction in each case? (SE or XL or whatever)
Plainly, I don't care who does this. XFX, eVGA, Palit, Sapphire, WHOEVER. Nvidia or AMD, this should not be allowed. It is deceptive to the unknowing customer and this is exactly how to take advantage of them.
I'm sitting here scratching my head wondering where the heck all these totally insane excuses are coming from. I'm blown away.

 

[apoppin]

People keep on throwing the claim that half the memory bandwidth = half the performance.
This is an utterly ridiculous claim.

Here is HD 6450 DDR3 vs HD 6450 DDR5 performance comparison with stock clocks. The DDR5 version is the one that AMD sent to all of the tech sites while the HD 6450-DDR3 version was the one that was commonly for sale.

 

[Madcatatlas]

What made you think that i took it personally? i just tossed it right back at you in the same spirit of your posting this about me:
i just made the comment that in this case there was no point - hence your "review" of me was worthless.
-- If you made no insult, then neither did i.



No snide comment - a genuine one that this thread has some educational value and it is not worthless as the person to whom i was replying implied.

"Luring you?"


RotFL

. . . "want some candy, little girl?"
:wub:

Sorry but our contest is over and we have no more prizes to give away.
:'(

You spent your entire evening posting this, AND in BLUE nontheless.

Good on you, glad you got that off your chest!

 

[Keysplayr]

Here is HD 6450 DDR3 vs HD 6450 DDR5 performance comparison with stock clocks. The DDR5 version is the one that AMD sent to all of the tech sites while the HD 6450-DDR3 version was the one that was commonly for sale.

Holy Cr*p...

 

[Madcatatlas]

Would everyone be ok with XFX suddenly releasing 6970's with GDDR3?
Or 6950's? Or 6870's or 6850's? From the ridiculous arguments appearing in this thread about how it's "just fine" that this happens, I guess it would be "just fine"?
Or would you want those particular cards renamed to reflect the performance reduction in each case? (SE or XL or whatever)
Plainly, I don't care who does this. XFX, eVGA, Palit, Sapphire, WHOEVER. Nvidia or AMD, this should not be allowed. It is deceptive to the unknowing customer and this is exactly how to take advantage of them.
I'm sitting here scratching my head wondering where the heck all these totally insane excuses are coming from. I'm blown away.

Not sure what your on about chap. OP states the following: I bought the DDR3 version, thinking it would provide the same bandwidth as the DDR5 version. I was wrong and now im mad.
There are no excuses being made, except those made by the OP. You coming into this and introducing "another" scenario where AMDs top of the line 6970 was introduced to the market OUT of spec, really doesnt make any sense whatsoever. The way i see it, your interested in discrediting XFX.

 

[apoppin]

You spent your entire evening posting this, AND in BLUE nontheless.

Good on you, glad you got that off your chest!

Do you have some kind of point? i spent two minutes answering you and probably that was too much thought and time wasted on a reply to you. You addressed me directly and i answered you. Blue makes multiple points in a single thread stand out.

You appear to be derailing this thread by making it personal between us and i am really not sure why. Feel free to PM if there is an issue.

 

[taltamir]

Here is HD 6450 DDR3 vs HD 6450 DDR5 performance comparison with stock clocks. The DDR5 version is the one that AMD sent to all of the tech sites while the HD 6450-DDR3 version was the one that was commonly for sale.
charts

1. So there ARE reviews of this card after all. There goes the claim of "no reviews".
2. the 6450 GDDR5 is available for sale, in fact I linked it. Both versions are available. Both versions were reviewed. The GDDR5 version got reviewed MORE. I would place the blame for that on the review sites who failed to review the lower end models.
3. Performance: wow that is terribad. I concede it is worse then I thought, its actually closer to 40% of performance with the DDR3 version.
4. Please include a link to the source: http://alienbabeltech.com/main/the-...alaxys-gt-520-vs-hd-5450-gddr5-vs-gddr3/all/1

Nice job there, you just disproved 2 of your own points and 1 one of mine.

 

[Tanclearas]

you are missing the point. it has no business being called a 6670 since its NOT really a 6670. a 6670 is supposed to operate at a minimum of 800mhz and come with a minimum of 4000mhz memory. making a card below the official specifications and still calling it that same card is wrong.

The OP is completely at fault for not researching carefully. Referencing Wikipedia as fact is NOT research.

There was no fine print.

Non-standard cards are COMMON. Are you telling me that OP didn't look at ANY other cards and compare clockspeeds or any other features? If that is the case, then once again, the OP DIDN'T ACTUALLY DO PROPER RESEARCH. DDR3 has power advantages, so there could be a market for such a card.

Comments that "Joe Average" would be a "victim" are BS. Joe Average wouldn't be buying a discrete card to upgrade. Anyone that would actually make such an upgrade and have the basic skills necessary to do so should AT LEAST have the basic ability to PROPERLY research a video card.

Final point. OP has no one to be upset with but himself/herself.

 

[AnandThenMan]

The feigned outrage from some of you is absolutely hilarious.

 

[Keysplayr]

The way i see it, your interested in discrediting XFX.

Because............?

 

[Keysplayr]

The feigned outrage from some of you is absolutely hilarious.

The lack thereof is equally so.

 

[Firestorm007]

The feigned outrage from some of you is absolutely hilarious.

It's the usual suspects jumping on the hate AMD bandwagon. Nothing new here. This thread has run its course in my opinion. It's gone beyond silly now.

 

[Firestorm007]

nvm

 

[AnandThenMan]

The lack thereof is equally so.

Ridiculous. This is a tempest in a teapot.

 

[Firestorm007]

Would everyone be ok with XFX suddenly releasing 6970's with GDDR3?
Or 6950's? Or 6870's or 6850's? From the ridiculous arguments appearing in this thread about how it's "just fine" that this happens, I guess it would be "just fine"?
Or would you want those particular cards renamed to reflect the performance reduction in each case? (SE or XL or whatever)
Plainly, I don't care who does this. XFX, eVGA, Palit, Sapphire, WHOEVER. Nvidia or AMD, this should not be allowed. It is deceptive to the unknowing customer and this is exactly how to take advantage of them.
I'm sitting here scratching my head wondering where the heck all these totally insane excuses are coming from. I'm blown away.

I wonder if you would be as upset and vocal if XFX was still an Nvidia partner. Somehow, I doubt that.

 

[Keysplayr]

It's the usual suspects jumping on the hate AMD bandwagon. Nothing new here. This thread has run its course in my opinion. It's gone beyond silly now.

The GDDR3 6670 should have been called 6670SE (teh suk edition). Then all would be well. You know you're buying less of a card. The only thing separating 6670's that Taltimar linked to is a 3 and a 5 after GDDR. Easy to miss. But 6670SE is pretty much impossible to miss. No. You can all go home with these arguments. No doubt.

 

[apoppin]

1. So there ARE reviews of this card after all. There goes the claim of "no reviews".
2. the 6450 GDDR5 is available for sale, in fact I linked it. Both versions are available. Both versions were reviewed. The GDDR5 version got reviewed MORE. I would place the blame for that on the review sites who failed to review the lower end models.
3. Performance: wow that is terribad. I concede it is worse then I thought, its actually closer to 40% of performance with the DDR3 version.
4. Please include a link to the source: http://alienbabeltech.com/main/the-...alaxys-gt-520-vs-hd-5450-gddr5-vs-gddr3/all/1

Nice job there, you just disproved 2 of your own points and 1 one of mine.

Which two points did i make that i disproved?


First of all, i know that i did the review but ATF forum rules do not allow me to link to my own reviews although posting an image of a chart is OK.

The HD 6450-DDR5 was nearly impossible to find in stock for MONTHS after the reviews came out; however, the DDR3 version was commonly available.

The OP did not buy a HD 6450 - he bought a HD 6670. Evidently there are hard to find reviews about the DDR3 version. i reviewed it also and there was only a DDR5 version available at the time - that is what AMD also sent us.

So that just leaves crappy performance with the DDR3 version compared to the DDR5 version. In my review that you linked to, i managed to downclock the DDR5 version's RAM and overclock the DDR3 version to the same equivalent speed - with interesting results.