XFX Bilking the masses - replacing GDDR5 memory with DDR3

[Creig]

Would everyone be ok with XFX suddenly releasing 6970's with GDDR3?
Or 6950's? Or 6870's or 6850's? From the ridiculous arguments appearing in this thread about how it's "just fine" that this happens, I guess it would be "just fine"?
Or would you want those particular cards renamed to reflect the performance reduction in each case? (SE or XL or whatever)
Plainly, I don't care who does this. XFX, eVGA, Palit, Sapphire, WHOEVER. Nvidia or AMD, this should not be allowed. It is deceptive to the unknowing customer and this is exactly how to take advantage of them.
I'm sitting here scratching my head wondering where the heck all these totally insane excuses are coming from. I'm blown away.

Since when did you become so concerned for the "unknowing customer"?

The average Joe does not buy much more than integrated Intel graphics chipsets. They don't even know what the hell that is. As long as they can see their screens, check their email, browse the web on their favorite search engine and chat with their high school sweethearts on facebook, they're content. So don't feel you have to stand up and fight for the uneducated consumer.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=27483840&postcount=43

You had no issues whatsoever when Nvidia took their 8800GT, rebranded and sold it as the 9800GT, and then later re-rebranded the 8800GT as the GTS240 and sold it again. Each time it was re-branded, the "unknowing customer" could easily have thought it was an upgraded model due to the new name. In fact, I have no doubt that some people ended up buying the exact same card all over again thinking they were upgrading due to the higher/newer model number. How is it that you support Nvidia rebranding the exact same card over and over again, yet are "blown away" that XFX would dare to sell the OP a DDR3 equipped 6670 that is clearly labelled as such?

 

[taltamir]

You had no issues whatsoever when Nvidia took their 8800GT, rebranded and sold it as the 9800GT, and then later re-rebranded the 8800GT as the GTS240 and sold it again. Each time it was re-branded, the "unknowing customer" could easily have thought it was an upgraded model due to the new name. In fact, I have no doubt that some people ended up buying the exact same card all over again thinking they were upgrading due to the higher/newer model number. How is it that you support Nvidia rebranding the exact same card over and over again, yet are "blown away" that XFX would dare to sell the OP a DDR3 equipped 6670 that is clearly labelled as such?

To be fair to nvidia, they have upgraded the hardware video decoding portion of the card so it wasn't literally identical.
It was, however, identical performance and based on the same architecture.

 

[SirPauly]

Renaming and different specs like a big difference in bandwith with the same name is disingenuous to some degree. I don't think it is huge though and sometimes renaming, creates more clarity for new naming schemes or awareness for good product to be sold.

For example: 5770 to 6770 -- or --- 9800 GTX+ to GTS 250.

 

[96Firebird]

Since when did you become so concerned for the "unknowing customer"?

Looks to me like he was talking about people who don't buy video cards in that post, so it really has nothing to do with naming video cards. How far do you want to reach, or are your arms not long enough?

 

[happy medium]

You still haven't commented on my "if this were nvidia you wouldn't care" statement. Why are you agitating in this thread? If it gets locked then nobody will get to read the anti-XFX title. Come on, Rollo, you need to think more clearly when you're spreadin' the gospel!

I think I made my position quite clear in this thread.

No, my response is, they released a card with faster specs, had it reviewed, showed the benchmarks, and they expect the millions of average consumers to know that the ddr5 card is faster, how?. I think thats wrong for any company or board partner. It seems just a bit deceiptfull to me.
Point is, even if the op (or millions of others) read the ddr3 label on newegg, how are they to know?

How far should the average consumer have to research?

A thread like this is good for all consumers. I for one think its wrong and just bad business practice.
I feel sorry for all the nubs out there.

And here...

No, he said XFX did it to him.............

Most of us are saying thats its wrong for any company to send out a xxxx product for review and then switch it months later, make it much slower, and still brand it as xxxx.

The other people are saying because it has been done this way in the lower end market before, it some how makes it right.

I say thats bullsh!t.

So now the average Joe consumer needs to check
Model #
1.benchmarks
2. core speed
3, how many core
4. the difference between AMD cores and Nvidia cores
5. amount of memory
6. type of memory
7. memory bit style

So the average joe reads an Anandtech review and says ok im gonna buy a xxxx model with 512mb of memory, and he gets some 32 bit ,ddr3, slow ass card, that he paid a whole 5$ less for.

Again....

Again we are the minority, people (noobs) like the OP deserve better treatment than this is what I'm saying.

Its not about which vendor,company, sales person does it or how long it has been going on, or what segment of cards is affected, its about bad business practice that needs to be changed.

and again...

I think the OP and his many supporters understand he made a mistake and its not just a XFX, Nvidia, AMD issue, but there is a bigger issue thats still being argued.
That bigger issue is whether this kind of business practice should still be practiced and not be scrutinized?

I would say to make money off the uniformed, and in my eyes is bad business practice.
.

The rest of your quote I'll let the mods answer.

 

[Red Storm]

Since when did you become so concerned for the "unknowing customer"?

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=27483840&postcount=43

You had no issues whatsoever when Nvidia took their 8800GT, rebranded and sold it as the 9800GT, and then later re-rebranded the 8800GT as the GTS240 and sold it again. Each time it was re-branded, the "unknowing customer" could easily have thought it was an upgraded model due to the new name. In fact, I have no doubt that some people ended up buying the exact same card all over again thinking they were upgrading due to the higher/newer model number. How is it that you support Nvidia rebranding the exact same card over and over again, yet are "blown away" that XFX would dare to sell the OP a DDR3 equipped 6670 that is clearly labelled as such?

Thank you, glad I wasn't the only one who found his new found stance a bit odd...

Vendors have been selling modified designs of low end cards for years, why is it suddenly an issue with some of you? Have you never looked at the low end video card market before? As long as they clearly identify the differences (and it doesn't get any clearer than putting it in the item title/description for all to see), the fault is on the customer. XFX wasn't hiding anything here. Heck, the DDR3 version is even cheaper, so that's another obvious sign that the two are not 100% identical. There is no deceit going on here, the difference is clearly listed in the title.

 

[Vesku]

This is definitely market behavior and not isolated to AMD nor NVIDIA. As an NVIDIA example they had all those 9600 variants some even had DDR2, (2!). Remember those system RAM sharing series NVIDIA cards, retailers would give top billing to the total >shared< RAM.

 

[toyota]

This is definitely market behavior and not isolated to AMD nor NVIDIA. As an NVIDIA example they had all those 9600 variants some even had DDR2, (2!). Remember those system RAM sharing series NVIDIA cards, retailers would give top billing to the total >shared< RAM.

yeah but pretty much every card, including OEM models, is listed on the Nvidia site. for example they have the 9600gt as well as the low power 9600gt listed.

 

[Vesku]

The specs are clearly listed by the manufacturer, so AMD listing them would not be filling in any data gaps for a consumer. But it is nice for product history, and would be a good thing for AMD to do. This appears to be an issue caused by the success of AMD's latest series. All their customers want to trade on the strength of the brand, so create a glut of 6000 series variations. Notice how prolific the 9000 series were in variations for NVIDIA.

 

[3DVagabond]

Damn - i am really busy writing now and i really don't want to keep getting called out to respond to STRAWMAN arguments.

Last time. i never said i cannot be wrong. i am glad (and have been glad) to admit when i am wrong - it is a learning process that goes on for an entire life here.

All you are seeing is a single topic and attempting to formulate something about me - yet you are seeing one dimension and one tiny part of my universe - at this moment and on a single point of contention.

Look, i REALLY LIKE AMD. i continually say good things about Nvidia and AMD on my own forum. My company is a *media partner* with them. i review their products under NDA. The exact same thing with Nvidia.

However, when any company does something that is out of line with their own established policies, i do not hide it or gloss over it or sweep it under the rug. It becomes a *topic* on my own forum and i usually give my opinion to Nvidia/AMD for their comment; they even follow our forum posts. i *always* give them a fair hearing - listen carefully to what they say, post it on our forum - and if i don't agree with what they say, i will still say so.

i didn't say the OP was blameless. However, it appears to me that AMD *neglected* to update the official specs on HD 6670 on their site to include DDR3 versions - clearly they did not plan originally for a DDR3 version (as they did DDR5 for 6570; but that one didn't come out as they planned in that case).

Shall i send a link to this thread to AMD? i would have thought with all their fans here, they would already be aware of it. It might be a good idea for them to update their site,

No strawman. You're avoiding my specific comment you are complaining about, You singled out AMD for something both companies are just as guilty of. I have accused you of nothing more. I haven't accused you or your site (which I have made absolutely no mention of) of being biased or not liking AMD. "Thou protest too loudly", IMO. I can't figure out if you are taking this too personally as some sort of attack on your character, which is why you are being so defensive. Or, if you are just being self promoting repeatedly touting the fact you have a site and are a reviewer. You know I know this already.

Either way, if you are too busy to continue a discussion about what you post, fine. I'm personally getting just as tired of having to raise the same point with you and have you go off on a tangent about your character and your site. I'm not attempting an attack on either you or your business. Just pointing something out. You can choose to take it on board, or not.

 

[busydude]

Since when did you become so concerned for the "unknowing customer"?

You just pulled a Jon Stewart.

 

[Vesku]

Actually, does NVIDIA list the turbocache portion of these kinds of cards on the product page.

http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?Inv...P-FDL&amp;cpc=RESX

I could be spacing, but I didn't see any specific product detail on these >double the RAM with turbocache< style cards that were sold.

 

[apoppin]

You're avoiding my specific comment you are complaining about, You singled out AMD for something both companies are just as guilty of.

i already answered you and i'm not returning here until next week. i'll attempt to explain it for the final time and then you can PM or email me if you still have questions.

This thread is about AMD and specifically about their recent HD 6xx0 DDR3 vs GDDR5 products. The OP has "singled out" AMD and i am responding to his thread. It is not about Nvidia at all.



Aloha

 

[Vesku]

I thought this thread was about how the same series of card can have a lot of variations and how frustrating it can be for the purchasing consumer to ensure they have made a good buying decision. At least that's what my ragefilter spat out as a translation to OP's title.

 

[bryanW1995]

I think I made my position quite clear in this thread.



And here...




Again....



and again...




The rest of your quote I'll let the mods answer.

So sorry, my mistake, I failed to notice you working to help the common man rise above his plight... as long as it doesn't do anything to make nvidia look bad, of course.

 

[Gikaseixas]

yeah but pretty much every card, including OEM models, is listed on the Nvidia site. for example they have the 9600gt as well as the low power 9600gt listed.

The PowerColor Radeon HD 6870 X2 is not in the AMD spec page. Where's the outrage? They could very well take the credit for a card launched months after the 6870 official reviews, a card they never told people about...

 

[toyota]

The PowerColor Radeon HD 6870 X2 is not in the AMD spec page. Where's the outrage? They could very well take the credit for a card launched months after the 6870 official reviews, a card they never told people about...

that's your example? why would there be outrage about that? its taking two 6870 cards putting them together and calling it a 6870 x2. it is not the least be analogous to the 6670 being unofficially gimped with gddr3.

 

[Gikaseixas]

I thought this thread was about how the same series of card can have a lot of variations and how frustrating it can be for the purchasing consumer to ensure they have made a good buying decision.

Thread title should be: Confusing XFX lineup, DDR3 and DDR5 differences. Instead OP cames out firing and hell broke loose...

 

[Vesku]

*cough* Turbocache *cough*

This is a market segment issue not a XFX issue. I'm going to sound like a buzzkill here, but all the complaining in the world will not change this situation. Only managing to educate enough consumers to cause sales to wither for questionable products will result in changes in products offered. I salute anyone pursuing this daunting task, consider that enough Joe and Jill Consumers seem willing to sustain the market for low end cards with 1-2GB of DDR2/3 slapped on.

 

[Gikaseixas]

that's your example? why would there be outrage about that? its taking two 6870 cards putting them together and calling it a 6870 x2. it is not the least be analogous to the 6670 being unofficially gimped with gddr3.

perfect example. it's another card that AMD never officially supported. Great example indeed regardless if it's two gpu's or not.

Congrats my friend, you nailed it:

6670
unofficially
with
GDDR3

Conclusion - Not AMD fault, so why say "oh well at least nvidia lists every model on their website?

 

[toyota]

perfect example. it's another card that AMD never officially supported. Great example indeed regardless if it's two gpu's or not.

Congrats my friend, you nailed it:

6670
unofficially
with
GDDR3

Conclusion - Not AMD fault, so why say "oh well at least nvidia lists every model on their website?

that's NOT a perfect example at all.

the 6670 with gddr3 is a GIMPED unofficial card and there are only official 6670 gddr5 reviews. a 6870x2 is just an unofficial alternative card that offers 6870 crossfire in one card. that is NOTHING like the 6670 gddr3 scenario.

 

[Red Storm]

Can someone link me to this list on Nvidia's website of all the released video cards? In all my years of buying cards, I have never once found reason to go looking for some sort of "official list" of all cards available.

Also, if low end market consumers are susceptible to things like not reading the title correctly (not talking about the OP, but your average Joe Smith who doesn't know what AT is), do you honestly think they're checking official lists on company websites to verify a product?

that's NOT a perfect example at all.

the 6670 with gddr3 is a GIMPED unofficial card and there are only official 6670 gddr5 reviews. a 6870x2 is just an unofficial alternative card that offers 6870 crossfire in one card. that is NOTHING like the 6670 gddr3 scenario.

Well in that case, I would take issue with the reviewers. Why don't/didn't they review the DDR3 model? The vendor designed and released it, it's not their job to be publishing reviews for it as well, that's the job of the neutral 3rd party reviewer.

 

[toyota]

Can someone link me to this list on Nvidia's website of all the released video cards? In all my years of buying cards, I have never once found reason to go looking for some sort of "official list" of all cards available.

Also, if low end market consumers are susceptible to things like not reading the title correctly (not talking about the OP, but your average Joe Smith who doesn't know what AT is), do you honestly think they're checking official lists on company websites to verify a product?

http://www.nvidia.com/object/geforce_family.html

 

[Gikaseixas]

that's NOT a perfect example at all.

and that's where we differ but i respect your line of thought, do the same please.

Both are not on AMD's page, both were designed by a partner, both are different than the official launch cards, both didn't make Anand's review , both have different amount of memory, one wastes more power than the other.

Why did you found it necessary to point out that every card is on Nvidia's page??? That's where my argument comes from. The 6870 X2 is just proof that AMD is not out to rip off poor little fellas that think they're good enough to do a DIY and can't tell a difference between DDR3 vs DDR5 cards when it is clearly discribed on Newegg. Who's at fault here? AMD? XFX?

 

[Red Storm]

http://www.nvidia.com/object/geforce_family.html

Thanks. Looking at the list, the memory specs on the Geforce 210 series says "64-bit 512MB or 1GB DDR2" RAM. Looking at Newegg, the cheapest 210s say 32-bit, not 64. There's also 128-bit, as well as DDR3 versions which are not listed on Nvidia's site either.

Why aren't these non-64 bit versions of the 210 mentioned on Nvidia's site? Clearly this is Nvidia being deceitful to their consumers. We need to create a sticky post warning the AT forumbase about these scammy business practices. Nevermind the fact that they clearly identify the differences in the title, without official citation it's just wrong.

... In other words, it's business as usual for both companies in the low end market segment. Can we close this thread now?