Xbox Series X

[purbeast0]

We know why it was delayed. Anyone who saw their reveal of the gameplay knows why it was delayed.

I'm just saying, you made it sound like you can't use render farms or remote servers ... remotely.

You also said that things such as coding, debugging, and testing can't be "anywhere near as fast as when in the office" which to me implied you would not be able to be as efficient in those things at home as you would in the office, which simply is not the case. Sorry if I misunderstood.

 

[LikeLinus]

We know why it was delayed. Anyone who saw their reveal of the gameplay knows why it was delayed.

I'm just saying, you made it sound like you can't use render farms or remote servers ... remotely.

You also said that things such as coding, debugging, and testing can't be "anywhere near as fast as when in the office" which to me implied you would not be able to be as efficient in those things at home as you would in the office, which simply is not the case. Sorry if I misunderstood.

No worries, sorry if my wording wasn't clear. I didn't mean speed as far as productivity as an employee. I meant as far as connections and having to transfer files.

I do not work in the gaming industry, but I work in video production and have felt some of the pain of having to transfer large batches of 4k files and not having everything on the same local network. It is doable, but it is time consuming! That's why it doesn't surprise me.

 

[Skel]

I mean, any tech company should have it logistically worked out so you don't need to be in a physical location to access server farms.

Also, as someone who has worked remotely, thinking you automatically are not as productive not being in an office is a pretty stupid assumption to make. I'm more productive at home working remotely than I am in an office.

The only upside to the Covid stupidity is now that everyone in my company is working from home, suddenly they've come to appreciate it. Even my wife who had this belief that I had nothing but extra time in the day has apologized and has come to appreciate how it's mostly the same effort as working in an office.

 

[MrSquished]

I haven't worked in a corporate office in 10 years but I do wonder how good remote work is for everyone. Not saying it's not good for some, but maybe it's not a one size fits all solution. I would think collaboration would suffer. I remember Apple's campus being built and it's design was driven by things like accidental mingling and collaborative events. An article on that here: https://www.cultofmac.com/394681/apples-spaceship-campus-was-designed-to-promote-collaboration/

Also I saw this article headline recently but since I won't pay for the WSJ's subscription, I can't read it, but if someone who does can copy and paste: https://www.wsj.com/articles/compan...mote-work-isnt-so-great-after-all-11595603397

In the last 6 years I did work as a realtor in a large office that had cubicles for agents to use for part of that time. And honestly, it was real good to be in the office sometimes. It got the juices going, we talked about upcoming listings, deals pending, business of all kinds, etc.. It was useful.

 

[piokos]

I haven't worked in a corporate office in 10 years but I do wonder how good remote work is for everyone. Not saying it's not good for some, but maybe it's not a one size fits all solution. I would think collaboration would suffer

That really depends.
Earlier I generally worked in office, with optional 1 day a week at home - a privilege I liked a lot. Most household chores can be done using the 5-10 minute breaks that you're encouraged to take anyway (for back, eye and mental health).
In the office, you waste these break on pointless talks, coffee, cigarettes etc.

But working at home all week is really difficult and not for everyone. I'm definitely less productive (easy to be distracted). I miss air conditioning in summer. I miss just moving around the city on daily basis.

Productivity issues are offset by the extra flexibility. I like working in the evening, I like being able to move a few hours to the weekend. But of course not every job type offers that.

 

[Aikouka]

I've only been able to work from home for a little bit during this pandemic, but it was certainly interesting to experience. I did enjoy it a bit more all around, but that's also because it freed me from a few restrictions at work (such as not being able to have a phone on me) that sometimes felt like a bit of a pain (needing to coordinate with someone quickly becomes a chore without easy access to your phone).

One other aspect that I liked about it is that I prefer having a pretty good computer setup at home, so if I can utilize some of my own setup, it's likely far far better than what I get at work.

I'd say that the coordination is a mixed bag. I do like that meetings are online as one nice benefit is that I can just type instead of talking sometimes. I find that typing takes longer but avoids any hearing issues and may sometimes also allow for more time to really get my thoughts out. Although, you do sometimes miss out on that more dynamic, in-person conversational flow.

Although, if we're talking strictly about software development issues, the one biggest aspect that I could think of is just having access to a proper representation of your target platform. For example, if you're writing standard Windows-based software, that's not too bad to handle at home as you can likely test that right on the development machine. (Albeit, you should usually test on a non-development machine to ensure proper library inclusions in deployments. Been bit by that bug before!) On the flip side, if you're writing integrated/embedded software, you may have a harder time being able to bring that home if it's possible at all.

In regard to something like working on an Xbox game, I wouldn't be surprised if a good chunk of that could be tested on Windows given Microsoft's use of standardized libraries across Windows and the Xbox platform. Albeit, something like that wouldn't be considered a perfect test, and you'd still want to use something like a dev kit to ensure proper operation. (Especially if you're testing platform-specific aspects.)

 

[cmdrdredd]

Xbox Series X Launches this November with Thousands of Games Spanning Four Generations - Xbox Wire

Today, we announced updates to Halo Infinite’s launch timing. Our vision at Xbox and 343 Industries has always been to deliver the most ambitious Halo game ever for our fans, while also balancing the team’s well-being. To do that, we will need some more time to finish the critical work...

news.xbox.com

Official Halo Infinity delay there.

So... pretty seriously speaking here... are their *any* Series X exclusive titles planned for 2020?

I am seeing some "Next Gen Only" titles like The Medium but the wording leaves me to believe these could see PS5 & PC launches.

Does anyone have any word on if the Series X will support the TV Tuner? This is a huge question my Dad has. He'd buy a launch unit if it did.

I actually forgot about the whole tv thing. Heard nothing about that at all for the new console.

As for exclusives, there are none and never will be. Microsoft has previously announced that every first party title will also get a windows release. Third party developers wouldn’t likely lock down a big title to one platform.

 

[jpiniero]

As for exclusives, there are none and never will be. Microsoft has previously announced that every first party title will also get a windows release. Third party developers wouldn’t likely lock down a big title to one platform.

The issue is more "not on XBox One/PS4" than full exclusives per se. Anything that's cross-gen is going to end up being a XBO/PS4 game.

Like I'm talking the PC version requiring a GPU with HW RT and the CPU requiring AVX2.

 

[cmdrdredd]

The issue is more "not on XBox One/PS4" than full exclusives per se. Anything that's cross-gen is going to end up being a XBO/PS4 game.

Like I'm talking the PC version requiring a GPU with HW RT and the CPU requiring AVX2.

You think a game will ever “require” ray tracing hardware? I can’t see that happening to be honest. I think there will always be a downgrade option for the graphics.

 

[jpiniero]

You think a game will ever “require” ray tracing hardware? I can’t see that happening to be honest. I think there will always be a downgrade option for the graphics.

Can't see console devs bothering to make a fallback where they use RT since the consoles support it. Same deal with AVX2.

Now we are talking 2+ years from now, especially since MS is pushing cross-gen hard. HW RT PC Adoption will be a lot better then.

 

[piokos]

You think a game will ever “require” ray tracing hardware? I can’t see that happening to be honest. I think there will always be a downgrade option for the graphics.

People aged 30, maybe 35+, probably remember similar statements about 3D graphics. 2D gaming rulezzz.

RT pipeline can replace the shader model we're used to. And the main issue with 1st gen RTX performance is that the RT hardware was relatively small - most of the chip is still designed for non-RT (because a $1000 card can't be fast just in 5 games or so).

Even if we don't ever see cards that ONLY work in RTRT, we may see some that focus on this mode. So the chip proportions will shift.
That would mean legacy shader performance will stagnate around what we have now (say: perfectly usable 4K 60fps), while RTRT will improve rapidly. And 2-3 generation from now they may be equal already.

As @jpiniero said: devs would rather work with one graphics model. And RTRT is easier for them as well.

 

[FaaR]

You think a game will ever “require” ray tracing hardware? I can’t see that happening to be honest. I think there will always be a downgrade option for the graphics.

People said the same about stuff like hardware transform&lighting for example. However reality is that after a while it just doesn't make sense not to require support for a new feature. Often because it complicates software development too much, or results are simply effectively impossible to accomplish otherwise.

Like today's polygon counts, you would have to throw an entire high-multicore CPU just at transforming polygon meshes, and forget doing all the other heavy lifting done via vertex shaders, hull and domain shaders and whatnot. A lot of the special effects done in realtime 3D graphics just wouldn't work without this set of hardware features.

So yeah, we'll see a world where ray tracing is required. Every single piece of new graphics hardware sold will feature it anyway, and by this time will have featured it for several years already most likely.

 

[piokos]

So yeah, we'll see a world where ray tracing is required. Every single piece of new graphics hardware sold will feature it anyway, and by this time will have featured it for several years already most likely.

Also, unlike shader model used in most games today, RT is actually a type of load that CPUs do pretty well. So with all the excess cores in current high-end processors and future fast interconnects, a CPU RT will probably be a viable alternative (still with less lag than cloud gaming).
That said, I can't imagine many 2023-ish gamers splurging on 10+ cores and holding on to non-RT GPUs.

The more interesting case IMO is gaming on IGP and low-end mobile GPUs - systems which simply may not fit the RT ASIC powerful enough to make any sense (around what we got in RTX2060).
Casual laptop gamers may still want to run their Sims 5, Minecraft or Diablo IV - game series which are optimized to run on fairly basic systems.

This makes me think that our future GPUs may look a lot like the fading away Xeon Phi (so the infamous Larrabee). It just makes more sense.

Essentially, if Intel made a Lakefield x16 (64+16 cores), it may work as a pretty competent RTRT gaming PC - on a single PCB, pulling maybe 150W. You could build a console around that.

 

[cmdrdredd]

The problem I see is that competitive PC gamers demand frame rates. If RT kills frame rates they will want to turn it off somehow. I think devs will provide that option until hardware can accomplish the task at the frame rates demanded. I realize this has nothing to do with how most people play or consoles in general.

 

[quikah]

Series S leak

Series X price leak also of $499

Launch date is November 10

Xbox Series S Price, Design, Release Date Confirmed, Series X Release Date and Price Reportedly Leaked - IGN

Update: Microsoft has confirmed the existence, release date, price and design of Xbox Series S.

www.ign.com

 

[piokos]

Series S leak

Exactly what I wanted. Fast SSD, less GPU. The way I see it: a much better compromise than Xbox One X.
Price as expected. Size - perfect.

I absolutely love the form factor - much better than the rumored "cube" design.
I wonder if this can be used horizontally.

I'll probably go for the Xbox All Access near the end of the year (2 years, $25/month)
I already pay $15 for Game Pass Ultimate and one of my controllers is getting pretty tired.
So the console will cost me $190 - including the cost of credit. Pff.

 

[jpiniero]

Ooh, nice. See that's what I was talking about, there's no way the PS5 digital can be $299. Plus the $25x12 monthly payment option is so 2020.

 

[purbeast0]

$300 for series S is cheap wow. Did not expect that. Did they announce prior that it was digital only?

Still don't understand their plan with putting out 2 consoles. Especially with no games. But we will see how it plays out.

 

[jpiniero]

$300 for series S is cheap wow. Did not expect that. Did they announce prior that it was digital only?

Has to be digital only. Save money on the drive.

 

[piokos]

$300 for series S is cheap wow. Did not expect that. Did they announce prior that it was digital only?

To be honest, I was surprised Xbox Series X and PS5 still have the disc drive. I thought this would come as a USB accessory at best.

I can only assume this is for people who use consoles as DVD players. Or for more traditional nations who prefer physical media (US maybe?).

Still don't understand their plan with putting out 2 consoles. Especially with no games. But we will see how it plays out.

What do you mean by "no games"?
Quite a few games for Xbox Series / PS5 have been announced already.

And backward compatibility is superb as usual. This is a drop-in replacement for an Xbox One.

Plus the $25x12 monthly payment option is so 2020.

$25 * 24.
It's a console + game pass bundle. But at current prices, assuming one would keep using game pass for 2 years anyway, the "plan" console turns out cheaper.

 

[jpiniero]

What do you mean by "no games"?

There aren't really any "Series" games, they are all really just XBox One games. Even Halo Infinite.

 

[purbeast0]

By no games I mean nothing that you need a Series X or Series S to play. The least common denominator for at least 18 months is the Xbox One. Not even the Xbox One X, the original Xbox One. The console from 2013 will play every game that is on Series S/X for at least 18 months. That pushes us into 2022 at the earliest we see exclusives on series S/X. And even then, there is still a least common denominator of the S. Until then, the S and X are literally being used to play games for a 9 year old console.

Seeing what Halo Infinite looks like it is CLEARLY hindering being able to push any kinds of limits with the new hardware. I mean it legit looked like an end of the life cycle 360 game.

For me personally, once a console loses a disc drive, I'm 100% out.

 

[piokos]

There aren't really any "Series" games, they are all really just XBox One games. Even Halo Infinite.

Still, I don't understand what a "Series" game is.
Something that works only on a Series console and not on Xbox One / PC? Hopefully, there will be none.
MS is very devoted to front/back compatibility and they clearly aim at a coherent gaming ecosystem covering consoles, PCs and xCloud.

Until RTRT-only games arrive, there's no reason why a game running on Series S wouldn't run on (more powerful GPU-wise) One X.

One S is another story. This tech is really dated. But I love mine anyway. I have a fat backlog of pre-2018 games. I just wanted a faster disk.

 

[jpiniero]

Until RTRT-only games arrive, there's no reason why a game running on Series S wouldn't run on (more powerful GPU-wise) One X.

CPU is a lot faster, SSD is a lot faster.

 

[purbeast0]

Still, I don't understand what a "Series" game is.
Something that works only on a Series console and not on Xbox One / PC? Hopefully, there will be none.
MS is very devoted to front/back compatibility and they clearly aim at a coherent gaming ecosystem covering consoles, PCs and xCloud.

Until RTRT-only games arrive, there's no reason why a game running on Series S wouldn't run on (more powerful GPU-wise) One X.

One S is another story. This tech is really dated. But I love mine anyway. I have a fat backlog of pre-2018 games. I just wanted a faster disk.

Just reading your post is confusing as hell and is a microcosm of the problem I see with what MS is trying to do.

Just give me games that are for the current consoles only so they can be pushed to the limits and optimized for that very specific piece of hardware.

They are basically turning their console division into a PC market with having 5 prebuilt "PCs" in the X1, X1S, X1X, XSS, XSX. The problem though is that one of those is from 2013 so the lowest common denominator is very old at this point.

Why not just let people game on PC if they want to game on PC?