Xbox Series X

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purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,867
5,738
126
The best TV shows are only airing on subscription services, not OTA for free. I don't even remember the last "free" TV show I watched, but I can list a dozen I watched on Netflix, Amazon or HBO.

MS is trying to change the business model. I am not saying it will succeed, but I am enjoying the product of the attempt. The Xbox showcase wasn't even about XSX, it was a Gamepass show.
Yeah but that is now after those services have 10s of millions of subscribers. It wasn't like that at first. I don't disagree with you that the best shows now a days are on those services, but that is because they are well established and can put out quality content. But don't fool yourself either there are a lot of mediocre shows put out exclusively as well.

Shows like Breaking Bad or Game of Thrones were "free" first. And I put free in quotes because we know you had to pay for cable and even a premium service in some cases. But that they were included with a cable subscription already was my point.

But that is what makes them different than something like Gamepass. Gamepass has nothing exclusive to it. And that is NOT going to happen any time soon. You will not see a game exclusively for Gamepass members in the near future like you see with Ozark or Jack Ryan for TV shows. Everything that is on Gamepass can be played elsewhere with ease.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,867
5,738
126
I'm not sure why you guys are shocked by Microsoft doing a subscription model. Everything that company has been doing since Satya Nadella took over has been all about recurring revenue.
I don't see anyone in this discussion who has said they are shocked by MS doing a subscription model.
 

JujuFish

Lifer
Feb 3, 2005
11,006
736
136
I don't see anyone in this discussion who has said they are shocked by MS doing a subscription model.
Considering how many people here question it, perhaps I should say I'm surprised how ignorant you all are of Microsoft's general financial strategy. Better?
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,867
5,738
126
Why would anyone? They've been doing it since Xbox Live Gold was released. It's always been a subscription service.
Yeah I mean they are the pioneers of the pay to play online, and now it's standard on all 3 of the consoles.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
So, do you feel the same about Netflix, Hulu, HBOMax, Apple+ and all of the streaming services? What about Gamefly (since 2002)? You say it's been proven time and time again, but the model Microsoft is following is a monthly feel with access to a large library of content. I would disagree completely and say this model has been proven to work very successfully.

Last of us 2 sold 4 million at launch. Game pass has 10 million subscribers. Guess who is making more money off their games? Sony

That is the point I made. Nothing more.
 
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cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
If you think their games are trash then why do you care how they plan to fund it? Do you think using a traditional model would make you think they are trying at least? They did that for 5 year this generation and it didn't work. No sense in doing the same thing over and over if it doesn't work.

Also it is unfortunate that you dismiss the entire Xbox lineup as there are some excellent games there, like Ori, Cuphead, and Forza Horizon. Gears 5 is finally decent again also IMO (never liked the Gears MP, so I don't consider that part). State of Decay 2 is fun to me, but certainly has a lot of issues. Halo 5 sucked. Halo Infinite looks poor, but at least it seems to play like classic Halo which is what they screwed up in 5. I am hopeful that they can fix up the graphics a bit and play some very nice looking old school Halo.



I disagree, they are pretty much the same to me. Regardless the point is that a subscription model does not immediately mean trash.

Read this very slowly...I do not need an Xbox to play any of their games.

Also I’m not interested in anything you listed so there’s that. I’m done playing the same racing games over and over with a few new cars and better graphics. To me they are a bit like sports titles and those aren’t for me either.
 
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LikeLinus

Lifer
Jul 25, 2001
11,518
670
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Last of us 2 sold 4 million at launch. Game pass has 10 million subscribers. Guess who is making more money off their games? Sony

That is the point I made. Nothing more.

You're taking a game that sold a record and using it as your data point. That's non-sense.


It was also Sony's biggest Digital launch ever.

Rome wasn't built in a day. You cannot make progress by standing still. Netflix didn't just start making billions of dollars out of nowhere. You have to innovate to keep up. Sony has a similar subscription service and they are headed that way as well.


Digital download and streaming is the future. Feel free to live in the dark ages and ignore the future.
 
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purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,867
5,738
126
I saw this while watching a promoted video on Twitter about the new Xbox, and this is news to me. I had no clue that games at launch will be available on the game pass. That is a big difference than just having the older games on there. Because currently that isn't how it works right? Or at least last I checked that wasn't how it worked and when Ori Will of the Wisps was on there at launch, that was an outlier.

kFW8XSM.png
 

LikeLinus

Lifer
Jul 25, 2001
11,518
670
126
Yeah, I read that awhile back. I'm not sure when it started though. It's one of the reasons why I bit the bullet and upgrade my Xbox Gold account to Ultimate pass for 3 years for $1. It was a no brainer.

xCloud is being added in September.

"Microsoft is promising that more than 100 Xbox Game Pass titles will be playable on a phone or tablet when the streaming service launches."
 

quikah

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2003
4,078
661
126
I saw this while watching a promoted video on Twitter about the new Xbox, and this is news to me. I had no clue that games at launch will be available on the game pass. That is a big difference than just having the older games on there. Because currently that isn't how it works right? Or at least last I checked that wasn't how it worked and when Ori Will of the Wisps was on there at launch, that was an outlier.

That is how it has worked for 1st party titles for a while now (I think State of Decay 2 was the first). The only new thing is they are adding the 3rd party launch titles also.
 
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purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,867
5,738
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That is how it has worked for 1st party titles for a while now (I think State of Decay 2 was the first). The only new thing is they are adding the 3rd party launch titles also.
I am curious how the 3rd party titles on there at launch works for those 3rd parties. Like I'm curious how do they get paid for those downloads.
 

Saylick

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2012
3,207
6,539
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No surprises here that MS is willing to lose money in the short-term to enable GamePass to be a long-term play:
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/xbox-game-pass-is-not-a-big-moneymaker-right-now-b/1100-6480241/

Looking back on Netflix, HBO, and now Disney+...
- Netflix more or less pioneered the model by gaining enough subscribers on non-exclusive content to justify spending big budget money on developing in-house exclusive content.
- HBO was built on offering exclusive content since it is basically a cable service, but found a cash-cow in GoT and are now doubling down on even more exclusive content.
- Disney already has a huge loyal following and a wide catalog of content, so offering a subscription-based service and to develop in-house exclusives for that service was an easy decision.

Microsoft and GamePass are analogous to Netflix in terms of catalog of content, i.e. relatively mediocre non-exclusive content with some exclusive highlights here and there, but would like to develop even more in-house exclusives. Unlike Netflix, where Netflix had to wait until the financials worked out to really start pushing for developing in-house exclusives, MS has enough money in the bank to take the L in the short-term to get the train moving sooner.

Sony and PS Now, on the other hand, are like Disney+. Tons of AAA exclusives, each more or less a blockbuster in their own right, but you got to pay full movie ticket prices if you want to experience them on launch. Yeah, sure you can wait a month or two after a blockbuster comes out if you don't want to pay full retail, but let's not deny this model works. For older content, there's Playstation Now but you won't find brand spanking new AAA games on there. As an analogy, even Disney+ today is NOT the launch medium for Disney's full-theatrical release movies, and any consideration of such is only due to COVID-19 forcing their hands since people can't physically go to a theater. If a Disney blockbuster were to launch on Disney+, I wouldn't be surprised if it was a timed-exclusive at full rental price, entirely separate from the rest of the content, before finally integrating it into being part of the subscription service sometime later. Much later. From a business perspective, this is the only way they can recoup the development costs of such high-investment endeavors. Going back to Sony, if they expand upon their subscription service, it will remain how it is today where AAA games won't be available on the streaming service until months after launch OR they offer two tiers of service, with the higher tier including any and all new games but at twice the monthly subscription fee. This tier would be a money saver if you're a gaming aficionado and typically buy every new game at retail price. This would be similar to a MoviePass, where it includes all new movies but to break even you'd have to be the type of person who routinely goes to the theater 3 or more times every month for it to make sense. Remember, these exclusives cost millions of dollars to develop (TLOU Part 2 was estimated to cost over 100 million) so to immediately place them into the same subscription tier as the other PS Now games would mean Sony has to take a financial hit, unless doing so means they double or triple the number of long-term (read: annual) subscribers overnight. Without an explicit policy to prevent it from happening, what's to prevent people from just subscribing for one month only to play a $60 game and then unsubscribe? Offering a time-exclusive period and/or a higher tier of subscription would solve this issue.
 

Saylick

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2012
3,207
6,539
136
I am curious how the 3rd party titles on there at launch works for those 3rd parties. Like I'm curious how do they get paid for those downloads.
If I had to guess, 3rd party studios get paid a lump sum up-front and then additionally some small amount per download (i.e. far less than what full retail would be). MS's goal is to make a profit at the end of the day and the third-party would like some certainty or floor to their pay-off, hence the lump sum up-front.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,867
5,738
126
Microsoft and GamePass are analogous to Netflix in terms of catalog of content, i.e. relatively mediocre non-exclusive content with some exclusive highlights here and there, but would like to develop even more in-house exclusives. Unlike Netflix, where Netflix had to wait until the financials worked out to really start pushing for developing in-house exclusives, MS has enough money in the bank to take the L in the short-term to get the train moving sooner.
This isn't really true though because there are movies/shows you need Netflix to watch.

There is nothing like this on Gamepass. You can play every piece of content on there without Gamepass. There is nothing exclusive to it.

And if they DO end up doing that, like putting a flagship product on it like Halo or something, that would be a SUPER ballsy move. I personally think it would flop hard but you never know.
 

Saylick

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2012
3,207
6,539
136
This isn't really true though because there are movies/shows you need Netflix to watch.

There is nothing like this on Gamepass. You can play every piece of content on there without Gamepass. There is nothing exclusive to it.

And if they DO end up doing that, like putting a flagship product on it like Halo or something, that would be a SUPER ballsy move. I personally think it would flop hard but you never know.
Sure, currently you can buy a copy of any game currently on Gamepass outright if you wanted to, but if you're the type to just beat the game once and move on, you'd just pay the subscription fee once, beat the game, and then move on. This would cost less money for this type of person than paying full MSRP, which is why they'd do it.

However, if they make Halo exclusive to Gamepass and you cannot play it without paying for Gamepass, then yes, it would truly be like Netflix like you say. And like I mentioned earlier, MS has the money to take the short-term financial hit and build-up a subscriber base before developing exclusives for Gamepass. That could and probably be their end goal. They sure as hell ain't trying to sell Xboxes at this point.
 

LikeLinus

Lifer
Jul 25, 2001
11,518
670
126
If/When Game Pass picks up steam, I'm sure they will release exclusives. I saw an article where they had already suggested this to leadership and they said they weren't opposed to it. It's just a matter of time.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,867
5,738
126
I would be very interested to see what happens if they did put out an AAA game exclusively on Gamepass. I could see it going either way in reality. I mean I know plenty of people who subscribed to HBO just to watch GoT, Disney+ to watch the Mandalorian, etc. But again movies/shows are just consumed so much differently in that you can watch many episodes or movies in a month versus playing many games in a month, obviously depending on your age and how much free time you have.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
14,653
5,278
136

Looks like they are going to call Lockhart "Series S".
 
Nov 20, 2009
10,048
2,576
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Digital download and streaming is the future. Feel free to live in the dark ages and ignore the future.
That's a bit of an elitist attitude. Not everyone has access to great broadband access even when they live in urban areas. I work with professionals who have a lousy 3Mbps connection as their only option in urban At;anta while I suffice with my Gigabit connection. He isn't living in the dark ages, his providers are.
 
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LikeLinus

Lifer
Jul 25, 2001
11,518
670
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That's a bit of an elitist attitude. Not everyone has access to great broadband access even when they live in urban areas. I work with professionals who have a lousy 3Mbps connection as their only option in urban At;anta while I suffice with my Gigabit connection. He isn't living in the dark ages, his providers are.

You do know what the word future is, right? I mean I said it twice. You also didn't bother quoting my full post.

"Rome wasn't built in a day. You cannot make progress by standing still. Netflix didn't just start making billions of dollars out of nowhere. You have to innovate to keep up. Sony has a similar subscription service and they are headed that way as well.

Their plan is long term. It's a completely silly argument to suggest that companies should stand still because some people don't have access. What streaming services help drive is higher bandwidth to more people. The more people who want to use these services, the more they are going to request higher speeds. Progress will be slow because we live in such a widespread country, but that doesn't mean everyone has to come to a stand still and people with access suffer due to the lack of people living in those areas.

Where exactly in "urban" Atlanta are your co-workers unable to get anything but 3Mbps????
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,867
5,738
126

Looks like they are going to call Lockhart "Series S".
LOL what the hell is Microsoft doing this go around?
 

Skel

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2001
6,214
659
136
LOL what the hell is Microsoft doing this go around?

Trying to break the normal console offering and cycles. As they migrate more to a services company I'm not too surprised by this. It's akin to their Surface lines where you can get different levels of power. If anything this is making good on what everyone said they would do when the released the original Xbox, make it a PC with a pretty interface.

Edit: To be clear, I'm just saying what it looks like. I'm indifferent on it as a concept. I find myself less and less concerned about consoles as I get older and just care if it'll play what I want, and make it look really pretty.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
14,653
5,278
136
LOL what the hell is Microsoft doing this go around?

Pushing Game Pass, it'll be the ideal console for it given that MS isn't going to make any real next-gen games anyway. Plus it'll be way cheaper than anything Sony can do.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,867
5,738
126
Pushing Game Pass, it'll be the ideal console for it given that MS isn't going to make any real next-gen games anyway. Plus it'll be way cheaper than anything Sony can do.
If you don't care about "next gen" why bother with a series S when the X is already out and will play all of the games anyways?

And man how stupid is the whole naming concept?

We have Xbox One S, Xbox One X, Xbox One Series S, and Xbox One Series X.