x800xt. dosen't exist!.. questionable ethics.

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
seriously, do you buy "volume stuff all the time" at anywhere near level of what transpires between between graphics card manufactures and major oems; or are you just talking out your ass? do you realize when ati brags in their press releases about wining contracts with major oems like dell and gateway; they are talking about acutual, physical, legaly-binding, contracts? or are you a moron?

yea, i have been a purchasing agent in buying products with a 6 figure invoice attached.. and have done so with nothing but a verbal commitment from the sales rep. contracts don't necessarily apply to desktop peripherals/accessories as they would to system builds/oem contracts you speak of.

cdw and gateway are in the role of resellers here, not oem system builders. and you call me a moron??

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: CaiNaM
and?

we buy volume stuff all the time (doubtful on the level of gateway), and place orders based on nothing other than the sales reps promise to deliver.

That's still a contract, and still legally binding.


And regardless of that, if you do do business based on "promises from a sales rep", then that's f*cking stupid. Sorry, but I see no other way to phrase it.

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: Insomniak

Originally posted by: CaiNaM
and?

we buy volume stuff all the time (doubtful on the level of gateway), and place orders based on nothing other than the sales reps promise to deliver.

That's still a contract, and still legally binding.

only if it (and the context in which it was stated) can be proven in a court of law. there are such things as burden of proof, as well as intent...

further, lets say the sales rep told retailers "xtpe will be available in volume sometime in june, and there will be high demand, so order now..." what does that mean? how much is "in volume"? stuff is bought and sold all the time, and i've been in similar circumstances regarding backorders and such (without substantial cause for litigation).

you tell me, is there a legal case here?

 

[Keysplayr]

This is getting us everywhere.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: CaiNaM
cdw and gateway are in the role of resellers here, not oem system builders. and you call me a moron??

i was speaking specifically of gateway in responce to your comment specifying gateway, and despite the fact they they are technicaly acting as a reseller in the case in question they are undeniably a mjor oem.


oh and i didn't call you anything, i simply asked a question.

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: CaiNaM
cdw and gateway are in the role of resellers here, not oem system builders. and you call me a moron??

i was speaking specifically of gateway in responce to your comment specifying gateway, and despite the fact they they are technicaly acting as a reseller in the case in question they are undeniably a mjor oem.


oh and i didn't call you anything, i simply asked a question.

heh..ok.. but the fact is gateway is certainly not the only one whose been "left holding the bag" here. CDW, a long established online retailer, suffered the exact same scenario. seems to me the common denominator here is ati?

and i still haven't received any answers regarding the double-talk on whether xtpe has been cancelled, nor why ati has remained silent regarding the reasons behind this entire fiasco. could it be because the only answers they have would make them look bad, so silence is preferable?

 

[kylebisme]

for all we know, gateway and cdw set their prices on an assumption of how much they would be paying for the x800xt-pe based on the price they had been paying for the 9800xts; and, then they decided to claim cards were canceled when they found their profit margins wouldn't be what they expected they decided to call the cards "canceled" and hold out for a better deal.

as for ati's lack of comment; simply releaseing a statment regarding the lack of supply would make for bad press, regardless what the reasons are. however, as i understand it they did comment that the issue was with ram supplies in their last investor conference call.

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
for all we know, gateway and cdw set their prices on an assumption of how much they would be paying for the x800xt-pe based on the price they had been paying for the 9800xts; and, then they decided to claim cards were canceled when they found their profit margins wouldn't be what they expected they decided to call the cards "canceled" and hold out for a better deal.

i would even fall for that if they even offered these cards at retail or higher, but they aren't offering it at any price, just x800pros in their place.

as for ati's lack of comment; simply releaseing a statment regarding the lack of supply would make for bad press, regardless what the reasons are. however, as i understand it they did comment that the issue was with ram supplies in their last investor conference call.

well, i 've heard rumors and references to that, but have not seen any of it substantiated. also, if that's the case, then why can i get ahold of an ultra? they're certainly limited, but still much easier (and at a more reasonable price) to obtain than the elusive xtpe.

also, there's the cryptic comment made by an ati spokesperson "we cannot confirm the xtpe will not be cancelled at this time", despite another comment from ati denying it's been cancelled.

edit: and then there's the announcment by samsung they'll have 1ghz ddr3 avail by years end???

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=31&threadid=1381305&enterthread=y

 

[Drayvn]

Over here in the UK were actually getting a whole lot of stock of XT-PEs in the next week or so, were getting a massive quantity of XT PCI-Es in next week also from Powercolour, so we seem to be getting them more and more now, for us that is.

Also we received a big quantity of XT-PEs and were even able to get rid of the back order, but the stock which we had of about 100 left got sold in like 15 mins, and so now we have back orders again, the XT-PEs dont seem to be suffering in terms of demand from what i can see.

 

[CaiNaM]

and you can add DELL to that list of oem/resellers (from an order place earlier this month):

We have reviewed your order. Although we had anticipated being able to ship
your order sooner, we are experiencing an unexpected delay with your order and will not be able to ship this order and any associated orders until on or before 10-27-2004.

Please be aware that due to Federal Trade Commission rules, we must have your consent to continue with the order despite the delay. If you do not contact us by 9pm Central Standard Time on 08-27-2004, your order will automatically be cancelled.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: CaiNaM
i would even fall for that if they even offered these cards at retail or higher, but they aren't offering it at any price, just x800pros in their place.

yet they would have to deal with a lot of backlash if they tried to charge more than what they had offered them for. it isn't unreasonable to think that they might simply not want to deal with the hassle, is it not?

well, i 've heard rumors and references to that, but have not seen any of it substantiated. also, if that's the case, then why can i get ahold of an ultra? they're certainly limited, but still much easier (and at a more reasonable price) to obtain than the elusive xtpe.

ya i can't substantaite either as i didn't listen to the call and i don't know where to find it off hand. however, the avalablity of ultra's is not much of an argument agaisnt the rumor as many of the ultras are not useing 1.6ns ram.

also, there's the cryptic comment made by an ati spokesperson "we cannot confirm the xtpe will not be cancelled at this time", despite another comment from ati denying it's been cancelled.

where did you see that? i ran a google seach and it turns up nothing for your quote.

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
where did you see that? i ran a google seach and it turns up nothing for your quote.

i paraphrased, as at the time i'd forgotten where i'd read it. the actual phrase was, "at the actual date, I cannot confirm that our Radeon X800 XT Platinum Edition will not be discontinued"

ATI Cancels X800XT PE?

the other response was:

"ATI has not discontinued the RADEON X800 XT Platinum Edition as erroneously reported on some web sites. We continue to ship RADEON X800 products to customers worldwide, including the RADEON X800 XT Platinum Edition, RADEON X800 XT, RADEON X800 PRO and RADEON X800 SE.

Because of the popularity and success of our RADEON products - including the RADEON X800 - meeting the strong demand is sometimes challenging, however, rest assured we will continue to ship the RADEON X800 XT Platinum Edition and our full family of visual processors for gamers and computer enthusiasts!"

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: CaiNaM
and you can add DELL to that list of oem/resellers (from an order place earlier this month):

We have reviewed your order. Although we had anticipated being able to ship
your order sooner, we are experiencing an unexpected delay with your order and will not be able to ship this order and any associated orders until on or before 10-27-2004.

Please be aware that due to Federal Trade Commission rules, we must have your consent to continue with the order despite the delay. If you do not contact us by 9pm Central Standard Time on 08-27-2004, your order will automatically be cancelled.

So they advertised a product they didn't have and after taking the orders they respond with a "canned" Email saying it's going to be over 2 months? Now I feel a lot better paying retail + tax for my PNY 6800GT with a free copy of Doom3.

Piss on Gateway and if this is true piss on Dell as well... :|

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: CaiNaM
and you can add DELL to that list of oem/resellers (from an order place earlier this month):

We have reviewed your order. Although we had anticipated being able to ship
your order sooner, we are experiencing an unexpected delay with your order and will not be able to ship this order and any associated orders until on or before 10-27-2004.

Please be aware that due to Federal Trade Commission rules, we must have your consent to continue with the order despite the delay. If you do not contact us by 9pm Central Standard Time on 08-27-2004, your order will automatically be cancelled.

So they advertised a product they didn't have and after taking the orders they respond with a "canned" Email saying it's going to be over 2 months? Now I feel a lot better paying retail + tax for my PNY 6800GT with a free copy of Doom3.

Piss on Gateway and if this is true piss on Dell as well... :|

and don't forget CDW! hmm.. see a pattern here? again, it seems ati is the common denominator here...

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: CaiNaM
you tell me, is there a legal case here?

Not at all, which is why I called it stupid. If the supplier leaves you in the lurch, you have no recourse. CYA principle.

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: Insomniak

Originally posted by: CaiNaM
you tell me, is there a legal case here?

Not at all, which is why I called it stupid. If the supplier leaves you in the lurch, you have no recourse. CYA principle.

exaclty. which is why i questioned the relevance of your defining oral agreements as legal contracts....

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: CaiNaM
exaclty. which is why i questioned the relevance of your defining oral agreements as legal contracts....

Because technically they are - but as Denzel Washington said in training day "It's not what you know, it's what you can prove..."

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: Insomniak

Originally posted by: CaiNaM
exaclty. which is why i questioned the relevance of your defining oral agreements as legal contracts....

Because technically they are - but as Denzel Washington said in training day "It's not what you know, it's what you can prove..."

i think i said that (in a different manner). so what are we debating here? lol...

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: CaiNaM
i think i said that (in a different manner). so what are we debating here? lol...

I don't think we're debating anything. I think we're clarifying - yes, oral agreements are technically contracts, but they are also very difficult to make stand.

I don't think there was ever contention, just confusion.

 

[imported_Aelius]

I gave up and ordered the XTPE direct from ATI.

I'm not going to predict how long its going to take because it was made very clear to me, for example, that when I purchased my Apple 20" Aluminum Cinema Display that it would take as much as a month to receive it and a minimum of 2-3 weeks.

I got it today, just 4 days after I placed the order and this is the 2nd day of shipping it.

You just never know.

 

[Zoinks]

WHAT!!!

You mean ATI has been shipping these and I've been waiting for the retailers!?!?!?


Arghhhhh.....

 

[edmundoab]

yeah I just got my order cancelled by gateway, blasted!!
waited since 3rd of June.

 

[Zebo]

Gawd what a bunch of babies. The card is out. The card is available. It's so badass people can charge huge premiums and stock is'nt to be had ... Either pony up the $700 ebay dollars/$800 zippy dollars or don't buy it. Simple as that. Vote with your wallet. But complaining does nobody any good.

 

[imported_Baz]

Oops