WWYD if your child was gay?

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: Ryan

Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Well, I could lie and say I'd be fine with it, but the truth is they'd forever be different in my mind. I've known gay people and called them friends... but I could never think of them the same as my straight friends. Especially gay males who are especially feminine, or gay females who are especially masculine.

And the crux of the sanctity of marriage argument finally rears it's ugly head - gay people are not as good as straight people, you couldn't have made it any more black and white.

If you feel inferior it's not because of me. I never said anything about marriage or equality, I simply said I can't think of them the same. Meaning, I think of them differently once I find out they're gay. A person's sexuality is a large part of who they are, when you find out their sexuality is different than what you thought all along it's impossible not to see them in a different light. Anyone who says otherwise isn't being truthful.

 

[Ryan]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: Ryan

Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Well, I could lie and say I'd be fine with it, but the truth is they'd forever be different in my mind. I've known gay people and called them friends... but I could never think of them the same as my straight friends. Especially gay males who are especially feminine, or gay females who are especially masculine.

And the crux of the sanctity of marriage argument finally rears it's ugly head - gay people are not as good as straight people, you couldn't have made it any more black and white.

If you feel inferior it's not because of me. I never said anything about marriage or equality, I simply said I can't think of them the same. Meaning, I think of them differently once I find out they're gay. A person's sexuality is a large part of who they are, when you find out their sexuality is different than what you thought all along it's impossible not to see them in a different light. Anyone who says otherwise isn't being truthful.

Care to indulge with some insight into this thought, if you don't mind?

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: Ryan

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: Ryan

Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Well, I could lie and say I'd be fine with it, but the truth is they'd forever be different in my mind. I've known gay people and called them friends... but I could never think of them the same as my straight friends. Especially gay males who are especially feminine, or gay females who are especially masculine.

And the crux of the sanctity of marriage argument finally rears it's ugly head - gay people are not as good as straight people, you couldn't have made it any more black and white.

If you feel inferior it's not because of me. I never said anything about marriage or equality, I simply said I can't think of them the same. Meaning, I think of them differently once I find out they're gay. A person's sexuality is a large part of who they are, when you find out their sexuality is different than what you thought all along it's impossible not to see them in a different light. Anyone who says otherwise isn't being truthful.

Care to indulge with some insight into this thought, if you don't mind?

In what way? Do you disagree that a person's sexuality is part of what makes them who they are?

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: Ryan

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: Ryan

Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Well, I could lie and say I'd be fine with it, but the truth is they'd forever be different in my mind. I've known gay people and called them friends... but I could never think of them the same as my straight friends. Especially gay males who are especially feminine, or gay females who are especially masculine.

And the crux of the sanctity of marriage argument finally rears it's ugly head - gay people are not as good as straight people, you couldn't have made it any more black and white.

If you feel inferior it's not because of me. I never said anything about marriage or equality, I simply said I can't think of them the same. Meaning, I think of them differently once I find out they're gay. A person's sexuality is a large part of who they are, when you find out their sexuality is different than what you thought all along it's impossible not to see them in a different light. Anyone who says otherwise isn't being truthful.

Care to indulge with some insight into this thought, if you don't mind?

In what way? Do you disagree that a person's sexuality is part of what makes them who they are?

What does it have to do with how you perceive that person? I don't go around wondering if everyone I meet is gay or straight. It might shock me a bit if a friend of mine suddenly told me he was gay but it wouldn't change the fact that he's a friend of mine and it wouldn't change my friendship with him either. I'd get over the initial shock and we'd still be friends. I haven't changed my feelings about my wife's half brother after I found out he was gay. Not one single bit. He was gay before I knew it...nothing has really changed except now we can be more honest in our discussions.

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: Ryan

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: Ryan

Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Well, I could lie and say I'd be fine with it, but the truth is they'd forever be different in my mind. I've known gay people and called them friends... but I could never think of them the same as my straight friends. Especially gay males who are especially feminine, or gay females who are especially masculine.

And the crux of the sanctity of marriage argument finally rears it's ugly head - gay people are not as good as straight people, you couldn't have made it any more black and white.

If you feel inferior it's not because of me. I never said anything about marriage or equality, I simply said I can't think of them the same. Meaning, I think of them differently once I find out they're gay. A person's sexuality is a large part of who they are, when you find out their sexuality is different than what you thought all along it's impossible not to see them in a different light. Anyone who says otherwise isn't being truthful.

Care to indulge with some insight into this thought, if you don't mind?

In what way? Do you disagree that a person's sexuality is part of what makes them who they are?

What does it have to do with how you perceive that person? I don't go around wondering if everyone I meet is gay or straight. It might shock me a bit if a friend of mine suddenly told me he was gay but it wouldn't change the fact that he's a friend of mine and it wouldn't change my friendship with him either. I'd get over the initial shock and we'd still be friends. I haven't changed my feelings about my wife's half brother after I found out he was gay. Not one single bit. He was gay before I knew it...nothing has really changed except now we can be more honest in our discussions.

It just does. That's all I can give you... unless you can tell me why a person's sexuality is no part of what makes them who they are, then maybe I can explain it better.

Maybe you're misunderstanding what I mean when I say I can't look at them the same. It's not like I won't be friends with them or would disown a child over it. I guess you could just say it changes my perception. If that makes me a bad person in your eyes, so be it. I don't claim to be perfect... just being honest.

 

[Kirby]

smother them










with love and affection

 

[Xylitol]

AT moderator... people are just voicing their own opinions. I'm sure that gay people have seen worse in real life than in these replies

 

[grohl]

I haven't read through all the replies.

I would have a really hard time with it. I supposed I would learn to accept it. It would be really really hard for me though.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181
It just does. That's all I can give you... unless you can tell me why a person's sexuality is no part of what makes them who they are, then maybe I can explain it better.

Maybe you're misunderstanding what I mean when I say I can't look at them the same. It's not like I won't be friends with them or would disown a child over it. I guess you could just say it changes my perception. If that makes me a bad person in your eyes, so be it. I don't claim to be perfect... just being honest.

No, I don't fault you for being honest. I do think it's kind of sad that a person's sexual orientation changes the way you view a person though.

I never said I thought you were a bad person. As long as you don't treat people badly because of their sexuality you aren't a bad person.

 

[NanoStuff]

I'd dress them up in a pink dress for school.

 

[Patt]

My first response is a long standing joke between myself and my friends who are fathers of infant daughters ... well, I hope my daughter does turn out to be gay, as then I won't have to worry about teenage pregnancy

But seriously, I can't imagine ever judging my daughter on this basis ... all I care about is that she is a good person, takes responsibility for her actions and respects other people.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Jeff7181
It just does. That's all I can give you... unless you can tell me why a person's sexuality is no part of what makes them who they are, then maybe I can explain it better.

Maybe you're misunderstanding what I mean when I say I can't look at them the same. It's not like I won't be friends with them or would disown a child over it. I guess you could just say it changes my perception. If that makes me a bad person in your eyes, so be it. I don't claim to be perfect... just being honest.

No, I don't fault you for being honest. I do think it's kind of sad that a person's sexual orientation changes the way you view a person though.

I never said I thought you were a bad person. As long as you don't treat people badly because of their sexuality you aren't a bad person.

I agree with him on the sole point that things "change." It's not that you wish ill will towards the person, but something would just "change" IMHO, especially if it were someone close.

If you've been friends with someone for a long time and you're a Christian (as is your friend), then all of a sudden your friend says that they want to become an atheist, I think that might change the way you look at them or how you react around them. You might not be mean to them or go out and disrespect them, but some things would likely change.

If you grew up with a friend from childhood and knew that person as a heterosexual male with normal heterosexual behavior (dating women, talking about women you like, etc.), then they all of a sudden say that they are gay -- it's a shock to the system. It'd be hard to look at them and act around in them in the EXACT same way that you did beforehand.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: grohl
I haven't read through all the replies.

I would have a really hard time with it. I supposed I would learn to accept it. It would be really really hard for me though.

That's something that a lot of people have a hard time dealing with I think. I'm a genuinely nice guy and I try to like EVERYONE, but there are something that even I have to marinate on a bit before I fully accept it.

 

[TehMac]

Originally posted by: Phokus
Well, i live in a fairly reasonable state, so i wouldn't do anything... if i were living in the bible belt, i'd probably send my kid off to some northeast boarding school so he/she doesn't get beat up/harassed/or worse.

Or how about raise him so that he doesn't feel the need to advertise he's a homosexual? You know, that's what people get angry about--you don't see straight guys running around have "Straight" parades...or do you?

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: TehMac
hzl mod, I salute your care for all members, but I do not appreciate how you have edited everybody's post whom have voiced something controversial. This is AT, I have been told countless times by members and mods that a thick skin is necessary to go on these board. To that end...Why are you curtailing and threatening on these people's reactions and opinions, with such an illogical appeal to Pathos?

I think your hurting the situation more than helping. If you have something to contribute, I invite you to voice it---but not by editing other people's posts.

I'm not a mod, but I find sometimes, miscommunication can happen, and I would like to say I respect your dedication, but at the same time, I don't appreciate the zeal and overreaction you had.

Mac out.

Originally posted by: Phokus
Well, i live in a fairly reasonable state, so i wouldn't do anything... if i were living in the bible belt, i'd probably send my kid off to some northeast boarding school so he/she doesn't get beat up/harassed/or worse.

Or how about raise him so that he doesn't feel the need to advertise he's a homosexual? You know, that's what people get angry about--you don't see straight guys running around have "Straight" parades...or do you?

Dude, you might wanna watch it...

 

[Rio Rebel]

Originally posted by: Format C:

Originally posted by: lupi

Originally posted by: Rio Rebel
There WILL be no more discussion of mod decisions in this thread.

Rio Rebel
Senior Moderator

Then where should this be discussed as the location stated in the rules has become nonfunctional and the head moderator apparently is declining to respond to any messages.

You can post in the Personal Forum Issues, or use any of the avenues mentioned in rule 12 of the posting guidelines.

RR

Purely as a FYI, you guys should disregard the above advice. BlinderBomber did what was suggested and got banned for doing so. Be warned.

Apparently I gave some bad advice there. I am talking with the other mods to see what should be done.
At this point, I would suggest NOT using PFI as an avenue to complain about mod actions.

 

[TehMac]

Dear ATOT Mods:
I did not see the message of Rio Rebel closing the calling out of hzl. Please forgive me, I had not seen said message, and I do believe I was not calling out hzl, merely saluting and voicing my dissent. I felt this thread was relevant and that this forum tends to frown upon making big deals out of nothing-- a practice I appreciate and understand fully.

I apologize, and I hope this miscommunication will be understood by members and mods.

 

[Turin39789]

Originally posted by: TehMac

Originally posted by: Phokus
Well, i live in a fairly reasonable state, so i wouldn't do anything... if i were living in the bible belt, i'd probably send my kid off to some northeast boarding school so he/she doesn't get beat up/harassed/or worse.

Or how about raise him so that he doesn't feel the need to advertise he's a homosexual? You know, that's what people get angry about--you don't see straight guys running around have "Straight" parades...or do you?

I kiss my fiancee all the time in public. She wears my ring. We advertise the hell out of it.

 

[TehMac]

I frown on both. Because in all honesty--nobody cares. Sounds to me like another love drama etc etc.

 

[Turin39789]

Originally posted by: TehMac
I frown on both. Because in all honesty--nobody cares. Sounds to me like another love drama etc etc.

WTH are you talking about?

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: Ryan

Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Well, I could lie and say I'd be fine with it, but the truth is they'd forever be different in my mind. I've known gay people and called them friends... but I could never think of them the same as my straight friends. Especially gay males who are especially feminine, or gay females who are especially masculine.

And the crux of the sanctity of marriage argument finally rears it's ugly head - gay people are not as good as straight people, you couldn't have made it any more black and white.

You're the one seeing in black and white here.

I think that men are different than women...therefore I must be a misogynist.

Originally posted by: 3NF
Would you do anything different based on the color of their hair? Being gay is no different.

That's begging the question. There wouldn't even be a debate if it was clear that homosexuality was absolutely, 100% genetic, like hair color.

I believe that homosexuality is like many other facets of a person's personality: Partly genetically determined, partly hormones, partly upbringing, and partly conscious or unconscious choice. If a baby is born with (say) an excess production of testosterone, there will be certain physiological effects...more hair, muscle development, and so on. Aside from hormone therapy, there's nothing the person can do to control this. There will also be mental effects, like increased aggression. Depending on the person, they may express this very differently. If they grew up in a pacifist household and got an office job, they'd probably keep a tight rein on their temper, knowing that it could get out of hand. If they were beaten as children, played aggressive sports all through high school, and got a job in professional boxing, they'd probably fly off the handle very easily. Other situations would produce several middle grounds. Now, the societal "ideal" is probably closer to the first than the second life path, but one could argue that the second would be truer to "himself". I tend to disagree. Our genes give us some positive and some negative traits, but I don't believe we're slaves to genetics. It's easiest when your genetic predispositions and societal expectations line up nicely, but if you work at it you can buck both of them IMHO.

 

[conehead433]

Ask Dick Cheney. His answer - Take them on a hunting trip with you.

 

[ultimatebob]

Originally posted by: Rio Rebel

Originally posted by: Format C:

Originally posted by: lupi

Originally posted by: Rio Rebel
There WILL be no more discussion of mod decisions in this thread.

Rio Rebel
Senior Moderator

Then where should this be discussed as the location stated in the rules has become nonfunctional and the head moderator apparently is declining to respond to any messages.

You can post in the Personal Forum Issues, or use any of the avenues mentioned in rule 12 of the posting guidelines.

RR

Purely as a FYI, you guys should disregard the above advice. BlinderBomber did what was suggested and got banned for doing so. Be warned.

Apparently I gave some bad advice there. I am talking with the other mods to see what should be done.
At this point, I would suggest NOT using PFI as an avenue to complain about mod actions.

Yeah... It looks like you're supposed to PM Derek. I haven't seen him around since the forum upgrade, though... are you guys sure that he's checking his PM's?

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: TehMac
I frown on both. Because in all honesty--nobody cares. Sounds to me like another love drama etc etc.

I hold hands with my wife in public. Would that bother you? Is that advertising my heterosexuality?

 

[JM Aggie08]

beat it out of him. let the AT FCC go ahead and edit.