Wow. Plane crash in Texas was an attack against the IRS.

[IceBergSLiM]

There are still people out there willing to put their money where there mouth is. Probably not the best way to manifest his anger though.

 

[Throckmorton]

I know it's politically incorrect to "blame the other side", but isn't this the revolution that Teabaggers have been talking about but haven't been insane/stupid enough to enact?

 

[waggy]

You guys keep calling him a nutjob, he just took the grievances we all have and went too damn far.

Most of the gripes in his manifesto are the same we spew out here, left and right on a daily basis. Our system is fucked and this guy has had enough.

Yes, he's crazy for taking it to this level, for killing himself and for trying to kill others, but the roots of his unhappiness are present in all of us to varying degrees.

you contridict yoruself. you say he ain't a nutjob but say he is crazy for taking it to this level. hmm THIS IS WHY WE ARE CALLING HIM A NUTJOB.

i do agree the IRS is fucked up. We have been fighting the irs for my wife's sister. ..sigh her mother really screwed her over.

she owes SS 8k so what they do? garnish MY REFUNDS! sigh

 

[waggy]

I know it's politically incorrect to "blame the other side", but isn't this the revolution that Teabaggers have been talking about?

from what i understand they been talking political revolution not flying planes into buildings...

While i am for change of the IRS code and hell goverment. anyone that holds this guy up as a hero is a fucking tard.

 

[Throckmorton]

from what i understand they been talking political revolution not flying planes into buildings...

While i am for change of the IRS code and hell goverment. anyone that holds this guy up as a hero is a fucking tard.

What about the blood watering the tree of liberty?

 

[shiner]

What about the blood watering the tree of liberty?

Miracle Gro tends to work better.....

 

[waggy]

What about the blood watering the tree of liberty?

sure there are some that are out there. but i am willing to say the majority are not like t his guy.

Every group has its nutcase's.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

you contridict yoruself. you say he ain't a nutjob but say he is crazy for taking it to this level. hmm THIS IS WHY WE ARE CALLING HIM A NUTJOB.

I think there is a distinction between those calling him a nutjob for flying a plane into a building, and those calling him a nutjob because of the grievances and motivations he outlines in his suicide note. IMO, and I think ayabe's as well, in the latter sense, he's not a nutjob.

 

[woolfe9999]

Terms like nutjob and crazy are overused when referring to people who commit atrocious acts like this. For starters, very few murderers actually meet the legal definition of insanity, maybe 5% at most, and this guy certainly would not have been one of them had he survived.

More than likely, this guy was just deeply depressed and deeply angry. I would contrast his note with the Unabomber manifesto, which was a bunch of incoherent nonsense that was evidence of an extremely disordered and disturbed mind. I think we overuse the "crazy" when referring to people who do things like this because we want to think that such people are more different from ourselves than they actually are.

None of this morally justifies an atrocious act. But doing something morally atrocious doesn't make you crazy. Even Ted Bundy wasn't crazy in a legal sense, or really in a clinical sense.

- wolf

 

[werepossum]

Communist state is an oxymoron. A Communist populace is stateless and classless by definition. The fact that later "Communist" leaders imposed authoritarian governments upon their peoples in the name of "Communism" has done a huge dis-service to that area of political ideology. Communism was much closer to existing in Catalonia, Spain than the Soviet Union or China.

When I type "Communist state", please read "states that self identify as Communist." This would include the Soviet Union, the People's Republic of China, North Korea, Vietnam, Cuba, Laos in (I think) the 70s and early 80s. You seem to view Communism as something which has not yet reached its ideal, after which it would be glorious. But no state of any size could exist without some central tax collection and allocation. A self-governing commune simply can't grow large enough to generate and control the resources necessary to create and maintain a modern society. Imagine a few hundred thousand people trying on their own to build a highway or a factory to make penicillin - it simply can't be done without some sort of organization. Modern society requires specialization, and specialization inevitably breeds inequity. This inequity is good for society (to a point); it creates incentive to progress from the current state. But specialization shoots its wad pretty quickly if there is not a concentration of resources in some reliable form - not much use for a civil engineer if she must personally round up all the materials and labor to build a road. Therefore a Communist should appreciate the IRS as one step in the egalitarian process - although he could certainly sharply differ with its techniques and rules - and see his true issue is with those who make the rules of collection and distribution. A nut, however, goes after the thorn in his paw.

This guy though seems to have been a good little capitalist who took some short cuts, got caught and punished, repeated, and finally snapped and turned Communist in his rage and madness and impotence. He's not an ideologue, just grasping at what he takes to be opposite to his perceived problem. His actual problem of course is himself and his inability to deal with the inevitable inequities in society in an efficient and useful manner. Verily, he is a nut.

 

[Throckmorton]

I would think a psychologist would diagnose him as having a severe mental problem.

 

[woolfe9999]

I would think a psychologist would diagnose him as having a severe mental problem.

Depends what you mean by "severe mental problem." Major depression alone can drive people to commit acts like this.

Bundy was a sociopath and a narcissist. Those are personality disorders, but they have nothing to do with reality testing. Bundy was completely in touch with reality. He did what he did because he was, in lay terms, a "bad person," and there really isn't much more to it than that.

- wolf

 

[BigDH01]

When I type "Communist state", please read "states that self identify as Communist." This would include the Soviet Union, the People's Republic of China, North Korea, Vietnam, Cuba, Laos in (I think) the 70s and early 80s. You seem to view Communism as something which has not yet reached its ideal, after which it would be glorious. But no state of any size could exist without some central tax collection and allocation. A self-governing commune simply can't grow large enough to generate and control the resources necessary to create and maintain a modern society. Imagine a few hundred thousand people trying on their own to build a highway or a factory to make penicillin - it simply can't be done without some sort of organization. Modern society requires specialization, and specialization inevitably breeds inequity. This inequity is good for society (to a point); it creates incentive to progress from the current state. But specialization shoots its wad pretty quickly if there is not a concentration of resources in some reliable form - not much use for a civil engineer if she must personally round up all the materials and labor to build a road. Therefore a Communist should appreciate the IRS as one step in the egalitarian process - although he could certainly sharply differ with its techniques and rules - and see his true issue is with those who make the rules of collection and distribution. A nut, however, goes after the thorn in his paw.

I made no mention of the merits or plausibility of Communism. Communism is not so much about forcing the state to distribute resources as it is about people achieving what they can through association and not competition. So it doesn't do anything for me when you tell me that a Communist should embrace the IRS. A Communist would view the IRS as unnecessary in the Communist condition.

This guy though seems to have been a good little capitalist who took some short cuts, got caught and punished, repeated, and finally snapped and turned Communist in his rage and madness and impotence. He's not an ideologue, just grasping at what he takes to be opposite to his perceived problem. His actual problem of course is himself and his inability to deal with the inevitable inequities in society in an efficient and useful manner. Verily, he is a nut.

I don't see him turning to Communism less his use of a Marxist creed. He doesn't complain about anything that I haven't seen others here complain about, both on the left and right. If he had not included the final lines, would you still conclude he had turned to Communism?

 

[keird]

I read the note. In a way I agree with him in that the tax sytem is screwed up. It really does need to be simplified.

 

[shiner]

My Homer is not a Communist. He may be a liar, a pig, an idiot, a Communist, but he is not a porn star

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

only you guys would link this to Obama... Rush said so?

Well it's kind of how like Obama links everything to Bush.

Terrorists don't burn their on house down. Like someone said, he was probably being audited or owed back taxes. I'm glad he did it this way instead of shooting the place up.

They should ban airplanes

 

[boomerang]

All you guys saying this was an act of terrorism are of course, dead wrong. There is no terrorism, only "man made disasters".

It's really time to get with the program.

If he shouted allahu akbar before crashing into the building it's for certain he wasn't a terrorist. Sadly, we'll never know for sure.

 

[Zebo]

None died but him right? What a failure. He even sucks at killing people.

 

[bamacre]

My Homer is not a Communist. He may be a liar, a pig, an idiot, a Communist, but he is not a porn star

From one fan to another, :thumbsup: .

 

[werepossum]

I made no mention of the merits or plausibility of Communism. Communism is not so much about forcing the state to distribute resources as it is about people achieving what they can through association and not competition. So it doesn't do anything for me when you tell me that a Communist should embrace the IRS. A Communist would view the IRS as unnecessary in the Communist condition.

and finally snapped and turned Communist in his rage and madness and impotence. He's not an ideologue, just grasping at what he takes to be opposite to his perceived problem.

I don't see him turning to Communism less his use of a Marxist creed. He doesn't complain about anything that I haven't seen others here complain about, both on the left and right. If he had not included the final lines, would you still conclude he had turned to Communism?

Again, you miss my point. My point is not that he embraced the ideals and ideology of Communism as an intentional move. My point is that he embraced Communism in his pain and rage as the perceived opposite of the IRS - much as you apparently perceive the IRS as being the opposite of Communism (which might well work in small communities where everyone is on board.) The difference is that you (apparently) embrace Communism as a rational and intellectual decision for an ideal socio-economic system, whereas he (apparently - I'm going from one note written by a suicidal man) embraced communism only as a means of rejecting capitalism, having failed at it.

I still think most Communists would not want to attack the IRS in particular, tax collection and redistribution being a very important part of all self-identified Communist nations, but if you have a different view of Communism that's fine with me.

LOL Zebo.

 

[ahurtt]

So, do we call him a murderer or a patriot? Domestic terrorist?

Whatever you call it, it is more evidence...that it is all unraveling out there.

How about none of the above? How about deranged whack-job lunatic?
Depending on your point of view, one could say you'd have to be a terrorist (or at least a terrorist sympathizer) to call this mans actions patriotic. But on the other hand, what if 9/11 had never happened? Would we still have this proclivity for terrorism bias? But of the options you've given I'll have to go with domestic terrorist. And yes, it does seem like it's all coming apart at the seems out there.

 

[bamacre]

Good to hear that only the pilot died.

I guess one concern that we all should have is that someone, somewhere, will think he was doing the right thing, and attempt a similar act. To anyone so foolish, I can only say that this man attempted to take away the rights of people who he believed were trampling upon his own. So he dies not only a murderer, but a hypocrite as well.

 

[shiner]

Good to hear that only the pilot died.

I guess one concern that we all should have is that someone, somewhere, will think he was doing the right thing, and attempt a similar act. To anyone so foolish, I can only say that this man attempted to take away the rights of people who he believed were trampling upon his own. So dies not only a murderer, but a hypocrite.

and a Communist

 

[ahurtt]

Crap, and I was about to send in my taxes for my return. How much longer am I going to have to wait now get get my return back?

You'll be fine, it was only an IRS field office. Shouldn't have any noticeable effect on tax return processing (maybe unless you live where your return is handled in that particular office). Even in his death this guy failed.

 

[Zebo]

Dude was obviously a loser and desperate man taken with idea of provoking a reaction and ultimately armed violence against 'the system' - reminds me of Charles Manson with uni-bomber undertones. Nothing like this can happen as long as majority of Americans are fat and happy and without leadership and all actions like this does is increase draconian anti constitutional laws, surveillance, and so on. The only 'revolution' he will spring up is an even bigger government one.