Yeah, nothing breaks the game for me. The Alchemy changes are the most annoying, meaning one or two of my alchemist (4 of my characters have that skill) will drop it for another collection tradeskill. Perhaps they will revisit the limitations on protection pots, sorry but that was a very unfriendly to solo players.
Protection paladin changes are good for my, uh, protection paladin... sap changes boost my rogue. Mage changes don't phase me as mine is strictly fire based, though I might make her into a 3 minute mage
Protection paladin changes are good for my, uh, protection paladin... sap changes boost my rogue. Mage changes don't phase me as mine is strictly fire based, though I might make her into a 3 minute mage
Don't confuse shifting something from impossible to difficult as making it easy.
Also don't confuse making something more fun as making it easy.
Nor getting rid of something that's simply annoying as making it easy.
Blizzard continues to make the game more fun over time. They also continue to make it more difficult over time. Karazan vs say Molten Core is a great example.
Based just on the mobs in the area where it will be located you can already tell that Black Temple is going to be insanly difficult.
Mind you, if you don't like it you can always take your $15 and go home. There will be 8 million people left to take your place.
Also don't confuse making something more fun as making it easy.
Nor getting rid of something that's simply annoying as making it easy.
Blizzard continues to make the game more fun over time. They also continue to make it more difficult over time. Karazan vs say Molten Core is a great example.
Based just on the mobs in the area where it will be located you can already tell that Black Temple is going to be insanly difficult.
Mind you, if you don't like it you can always take your $15 and go home. There will be 8 million people left to take your place.
lupi
Lifer
- Apr 8, 2001
- 32,539
- 260
- 126
Um, because they havea very limited in house testing group that knows the mechanics of the game better than most guilds combined. Since they don't perform any content changes once it's been released to the test realm until a post content patch, when else would you expect them to adjust the difficulty. Which they've done for virtually every instance in the game at some point.
Go read the notes from Blizzard.
Some of the changes were made to balance PvP. In regards to RAIDs and such the changes to alchemy are being done so people can spend more time PLAYING the game instead of farming.
I don't know about you, but I don't play games to work.
CKent
Diamond Member
- Aug 17, 2005
- 9,020
- 0
- 0
Every class has to dedicate significant bag space to necessities. On my shaman I had one bag for odds and ends like water, my class totems, hearthstone, etc., one bag dedicated specifically to potions, many of which a rogue would never need, such as mana pots, mana regen pots, +healing pots, mana oils, etc. and one bag dedicated to gear, as I had both a healing and dps suit. You have it easy.
I played EQ for a while and still prefer a more challenging game, as I think it adds to immersiveness, but I can understand how people like WoW's less hardcore focus, as it was built that way from the start. It's not necessarily easy.
That's beside the point though, this patch contained mostly class nerfs, which if anything makes things harder. In grand tradition, the only class which needed to be cut down a bit was the one which got the biggest buffs; rogues. The WoW devs seem entirely out of touch with the game and generally buff the strong while nerfing the weak.
If you think PvP is anywhere near balanced or that this patch moved PvP closer to that goal, I want some of what you're drinking and some of what you're smoking. I'll pass on what you're snorting though, I'm not into that :Q
Seriously though, I think you're a bit spoiled from playing Blizzard's golden-child class. I quit the game over how screwed up they've made it for my shaman main specifically and healers in general, and you can only complain about having to dedicate 20-35% as much bag space to necessities as other classes have to...? Lol
Don't confuse the usual with having to tote around poison. Just because you carry water it doesn't make you special. Everyone has to carry that crap around. If not water, food.
Hearthstone? Everyone in the game has one.
Water? I've got 2-3 stacks of food. One for just healing, one for ravager dogs plus maybe another buff if I happen to have the mats.
Potions? No I don't use mana pots but I've always got two stacks of just thistle tea plus major agility pots, (or mongoose), 2 stacks of healing pots. I can't self-buff so I've always got pots and scrolls everywhere.
Two stacks o bandages...could probably cut to one I spose.
So how is it I have it easy? I have all that crap I just listed in addition to poison. I think you've made a silly arguement and any rogue would agree.
Don't include in your argument things like herbs either. I'll just counter with enchanting mats and at least a couple piles of skins.
Equipment? Who doesn't carry around at least a half (if not full) set of just fire resist? Nothing class-special there. Casters may carry around an extra wand but they don't carry ammo.
The stuff that is soley class specific for me:
1xcrip, 1xanethetic, 1xmind numb, 1xwound, 2xinstant, 2xdeadly, 2xblind, 2xflash, 2xthistle, 1xtools.
So all other classes have 15 slots just dedicated to class unique items? :roll:
Anubis
No Lifer
Yeah, warlocks have it pretty bad too. I thought they gave you guys some kinda bag a while back to help with it? (not that it solved the issue)
Anubis
No Lifer
warlocks have shard bags, 16,20,24 and 28 slot ones, the 28 slotters cost around 500G in mats to make, and take up the space of a normal bag and only hold shards, its kind of a PITA, especially when you normally bring 50 or so shards to a raid
I also heard a lot of complaints that properly-specced Paladins were significantly outlasting healing-specced Priests and Druids in long fights -- with vastly better survivability. I'm not saying that a Paladin shouldn't be a good healer if properly outfitted and specced, but:
1) Blizzard is trying to get away from making it so that the only way you can MH is by building yourself 100% for that purpose, and
2) Blizzard is trying to not have one healing class that is way better than all the others. In any kind of endurance-based fight, this talent makes Paladins way too good as main healers if it gives back 100% of the mana spent. You can get some fairly ridiculous amounts of spellcrit% nowadays.
The Sap change is long overdue, and this is what they should have done when they did the major Rogue review before BC came out. If you don't think the cost reduction/range increase is worth it (I think it probably is, at least for PvP), you don't have to spec for it.
Rogues do have to lug around extra stuff compared to some classes. Other examples: Warlocks also lose pretty much a whole bag slot for shards, Druids frequently need extra full or partial armor sets (in addition to resist gear) unless they're dedicated healers, and Hunters have ammo and extra food for their pets. I still don't think it's that bad, especially since anyone 60+ can easily get a full set of 16-slot bags now (and 18s with some cash outlay).
Yeah that's a drag. If the bags go up to 28 that's nice but it still takes 1/5 of your bag slots per. IMHO that's just a drag on "fun factor". There is no really good reason it should be like that. MMO designers try to include things that get you to play more (flight paths taking 10 min for instance) and all that little stuff adds up to a months worth of play eventually. Causing the sheer frustration of running back and forth to a bank and other inventory management is a pretty rotten way to obtain that goal.
I would still give up the sap change and my talent points if they would just make it so you can sap more things.
Rogues do no CC at all in Karazan for instance. It utterly sucks.
Rogues do no CC at all in Karazan for instance. It utterly sucks.
I take it you mean allowing Sap to affect mobs that are not Humanoids.
While I don't know that it's a horrible idea -- it could potentially affect balance of a lot of PvE content. It also would reduce one of the advantages of Mages over other DPS classes. They already have craptastic aggro management and PvE survivability if they get aggro -- and their sustained DPS is not as good as a Rogue or Hunter.
Nontrivial travel times and limited inventory space (which then requires prioritization of what you're going to carry around) are not done just to piss you off and make you play longer.
If anything, Blizzard should want you to play fewer hours of real time, since that would cut down their bandwidth and server costs.
CKent
Diamond Member
- Aug 17, 2005
- 9,020
- 0
- 0
Ignorance is bliss, I guess. I played a 60 rogue alt-turned-main for awhile, I know exactly how "bad" rogues have it... lol. First off, your raiding set is your PvP set. You have a few FR pieces? Poor thing... I have a 20 slot bag full to the brim of healing gear. All healers should have 2 outfits, even lifelong healing-spec healers should have dps suits. Likewise, DPS specced & geared healers are retarded not to have a healing suit. I haven't even bothered with FR gear. That bag doesn't hold all my spare gear, I have a few pieces in my 20 slot potions bag. Which, I'll repeat since you ignored it, has far more potions than a non-mana-using melee dps class could ever need. My third 20 slotter contains the 4 totems shamans have to carry with them at all times, the 3 stacks of water which is a good bare minimum to run with (vs. the 1 stack of food melees need, since you can always bug a healer to heal you whereas drinking is the only way to get mana) ankhs and various other odds and ends, some shaman/healer specific.
I hope for your sake you never play a real class. Having even less bag space and being less godlike in PvP would come as quite a shock to someone used to being priveledged.
Rogues are the undisputed, unkillable, grossly overpowered kings of the battlegrounds, especially with the shiv bug still active. Yeah, the one the CSMs promised was getting fixed on the forums, only to be proven liars when it went utterly unmentioned in the patch notes. PvE is more about social ties. Friends / guild aren't going to take a "better" class, if you don't get into raids it'll be because they're taking someone they get along with better. PvP is where class balance really matters.
Anubis
No Lifer
your stupid shiv bug fix is right here
"Poisons: The difficulty of dispelling these is now based off the level of the player, not the level of the weapon the poison is applied to."
and to the poster above if you carry all your gear on you at all times im just gonna call you a flat out moron, back before TBC i had a full Fire resist, Nature Resist and frost resist set and a PVP set, sorry our PVP gear and our PVE gear are definitly not the same, its as all in the bang till i needed it for the encounter or whatever, and im fairily positive i carry as many DPS potions as you do healing pots so thats another non issue
you cary totems i cary fing poisions and stupid theives tools
hunters and warlocks are the only 2 classes that can really bitch about bag space because their special bag more then needed and limites them more then the rest of us
"Poisons: The difficulty of dispelling these is now based off the level of the player, not the level of the weapon the poison is applied to."
and to the poster above if you carry all your gear on you at all times im just gonna call you a flat out moron, back before TBC i had a full Fire resist, Nature Resist and frost resist set and a PVP set, sorry our PVP gear and our PVE gear are definitly not the same, its as all in the bang till i needed it for the encounter or whatever, and im fairily positive i carry as many DPS potions as you do healing pots so thats another non issue
you cary totems i cary fing poisions and stupid theives tools
hunters and warlocks are the only 2 classes that can really bitch about bag space because their special bag more then needed and limites them more then the rest of us
...unless PvE class imbalances get so bad that taking your 'inferior' class over another that does the same role prevents them from clearing content. This has happened, or at least been close to happening, at various points to various classes (mostly DPS ones, when some combination of talents/gear resulted in a particular class/spec being 10-20% better than anything else available). Sometimes encounter design forces you to take certain specific combinations of classes.
I can turn the same argument around; if you're playing with your friends, your Arena team or PvP guild isn't going to kick you out if you're not the absolute "best" class to fit in with everyone else. Good strategy, communication, and tactics pay off a lot more directly in PvP; once people have learned PvE encounters, many of them simply act as gear/class balance checks. A crappily-played Rogue who just spams SS and/or backstab -- but has awesome gear -- can still top the damage meters in PvE, whereas they'll probably be more of a liability than a benefit to a 5v5 Arena team.
CKent
Diamond Member
- Aug 17, 2005
- 9,020
- 0
- 0
It should be 0% unless you have Vile Poisons. The wording of that change is highly ambiguous and I suspect base dispel resist has been buffed; generally when they say it in a confusing manner like that it's to hide a stealth change. I can't actually log in and check, as my account expired a few days ago (and good riddance) but I'd bet money on it. It would certainly be in line with all the other buffs that already overpowered class received.
Lol wow, where to even start?
1) I absolutely carry both suits on me at all times. If I'm specced dps I can heal well with my healing suit on and may need to do it if a group can't find a healer or if the group's healer gets d/c or has to leave. If I'm specced resto I may need to pump out some damage for whatever reason; farming, dps-centric boss (eg. vorpil), etc. Play a real class before you tell someone they're a moron, wow.
2) Resist suits as they once existed are a thing of the past. Resist gear now has ample +resists on it to do with a few pieces what you used to need a full 16 slots for, leaving you with a lot of your normal gear and, more importantly, a lot more bag space. If you read my post you'll see I haven't even bothered collecting any resist stuff yet, though I did get defaulted some CR boots... which I keep banked
3) What different gear do you need in PvP, honestly? The only possibility is extra hp for PvP, but everyone needs hp in PvE these days, rogues most of all.
4) "You carry this, but I carry poisons! You carry that, but I carry poisons! You carry the other thing, but I carry poisons!" All that sh!t I carry adds up to a lot more than your poisons. You carry 3-5 different types of mana pots as a rogue?
Up to 2-3 stacks of each? Your consumable regimen consist of 1 of 3 types of food you carry, 1 of 2 weapon oils, mana/5 pot + healing pot or spell dps pot? About all you have is mongoose + the same healing pots I carry.I've always hated the contempt people hold healers in, especially dps classes. You have WoW's version of a union job; it's easy mode... and instead of enjoying it you blame healers for everything from the war in Iraq to global warming. Not long ago a rogue in my guild - good player too, married irl, etc., not some little kid - goes around a corner out of heal LoS in a heroic, breaks sheep, tries to tank sheep, gets 1shotted and blames ME... lol. You have no idea what it's like to have to spend dkp on two sets of gear and carry it all with you, having to spend hundreds of gold a week just to raid and farm for your epic on the same character, nor go through all the other BS healers go through (constant nerfs, whack-a-mole gameplay, being scapegoated for every wipe, etc.), but you sure were quick to call me a moron for doing what all healers should do (and most in fact do).
What are you doing if not bitching about it, constructively criticizing the bag space rogue poisons take? :laugh:
Can't stand arenas, /duel + reward system ftl. I guess flags were too complicated for most WoW players
I tend to solo queue for BGs or do them with a few friends at most. Makes it seem less regimented, less like work... because to be honest, the gear shouldn't cost nearly what it does, especially being so bad compared to duelrena gladiator gear.
Anubis
No Lifer
i was never complaining about our bagspace, i was saying those that do are stupid, i was just countering your argument about class related things like totems, every class has those things
my only bag grips is that IMO the 20 slotters shoudl be cheaper
that vast diff between pvp and pve gear as a rogue is in stam and crit
in PVP you dont need to stak 200+ hit whish is essential in PVE, my PVE set has 2k+ less HP then my PVP set, we really dont need to stack stam in PVE, we rarley take damage
lets see i carry at least 2 stacks of Onslought, fel strength, mastery major AGI, mongoose, Major health, stack of flasks depending on the fight, AGI food Stam food AP food, regen pots, hp pots, some pot im sure ive forggotten, used to carry sharpening stones also but TBC made most things take poisions
if i was paying attention i wouldent have called you a moron, but the arguement for bag space is IMO dumb, for non warlocks/hunters who need their bags for speed/ranged or just the space cause blizz forces locks to take so many damn shards, tho that soul well helps a bunch
and i love my healers i always send them pots and such, which is prob why i dont die much cause i actually get heals
my only bag grips is that IMO the 20 slotters shoudl be cheaper
that vast diff between pvp and pve gear as a rogue is in stam and crit
in PVP you dont need to stak 200+ hit whish is essential in PVE, my PVE set has 2k+ less HP then my PVP set, we really dont need to stack stam in PVE, we rarley take damage
lets see i carry at least 2 stacks of Onslought, fel strength, mastery major AGI, mongoose, Major health, stack of flasks depending on the fight, AGI food Stam food AP food, regen pots, hp pots, some pot im sure ive forggotten, used to carry sharpening stones also but TBC made most things take poisions
if i was paying attention i wouldent have called you a moron, but the arguement for bag space is IMO dumb, for non warlocks/hunters who need their bags for speed/ranged or just the space cause blizz forces locks to take so many damn shards, tho that soul well helps a bunch
and i love my healers i always send them pots and such, which is prob why i dont die much cause i actually get heals
CKent
Diamond Member
- Aug 17, 2005
- 9,020
- 0
- 0
My whole point was that every class has to dedicate bag space, I was arguing against some other rogue who was saying rogues have it far worse than anyone else in that department. As for bags, meh, tailoring needed something. It's the only crafting prof where there's no gathering prof to supply it, and the BoP tailored goods are for PvE only, as they have very little sta on them if any.
Concerning pack management.
Minimums, as in at most one stack of each (unrealistic I know)
Really only 2 classes lose a pack, Hunters and Warlocks. Shaman and Rogues both have items they cannot go without 1 slot of (Shaman = totems/ankhs, Rogues = tools + 5 specials.
Hunters, 1 pack lost to ammo. Food, Water, Health Pot, Mana Pot, Food, Bandages
Rogues, Food, Water, Health Pot, Bandages, Thief Tools, Instant Poison, Deadly Poison, Crippling Poison, Wound/Other Poison, 1 extra weapon (for non-dagger builds ambush), blinding powder, flash powder.
Mages, Food, Water, Mana Gem, Health Pot, Mana Pot, Bandages
Warlocks, Health Pot, Mana Pot, Bandages, 1 pack lost to Soul Shards
Paladins, Food, Water, Health Pot, Mana Pot, Bandages
Warriors, Food, Health Pot, Bandages
Priests, Food, Water, Health Pot, Mana Pot, Bandages
Druids, Food, Water, Health Pot, Mana Pot, Bandages
Shaman, Food, Water, Health Pot, Mana Pot, Bandages, 4 totems, Ankhs.
Those are just minimums I would list.
I keep extra suits mostly in the bank unless I kwow there is a chance I will go into an instance that day requiring something different. If I know I am going to want to do a pug instance I will have alternate suits for either paladin, priest, shaman, or druid.
Professions hurt too...
Herbalism and Mining can take a bag slot simply because of the myraid of drops that you get across a day.
Skinning is not as bad, but TBC did put out many new types requiring nearly a pack at times
Alchemy, if you work in the field takes a lot of space, though after changes it might not be worthwhile to do field work as pot use will be restricted, hence less.
Leatherworking, Tailoring, Engineering, Blacksmithing, and Jewelcrafting, tend to be city based only so you don't need to carry
Still, if you wanted to pile on more stuff.... are we addicted to being buffed to the nines?
Offensive and Defensive Elixirs. Scrolls (which might become more valuable if they stack with elixirs). Protection Pots.
Inventory management is part of the game, I am pretty sloppy at times and really need to sit down and delete a bunch of stuff (holiday stuff that is useless or stacks badly)
Minimums, as in at most one stack of each (unrealistic I know)
Really only 2 classes lose a pack, Hunters and Warlocks. Shaman and Rogues both have items they cannot go without 1 slot of (Shaman = totems/ankhs, Rogues = tools + 5 specials.
Hunters, 1 pack lost to ammo. Food, Water, Health Pot, Mana Pot, Food, Bandages
Rogues, Food, Water, Health Pot, Bandages, Thief Tools, Instant Poison, Deadly Poison, Crippling Poison, Wound/Other Poison, 1 extra weapon (for non-dagger builds ambush), blinding powder, flash powder.
Mages, Food, Water, Mana Gem, Health Pot, Mana Pot, Bandages
Warlocks, Health Pot, Mana Pot, Bandages, 1 pack lost to Soul Shards
Paladins, Food, Water, Health Pot, Mana Pot, Bandages
Warriors, Food, Health Pot, Bandages
Priests, Food, Water, Health Pot, Mana Pot, Bandages
Druids, Food, Water, Health Pot, Mana Pot, Bandages
Shaman, Food, Water, Health Pot, Mana Pot, Bandages, 4 totems, Ankhs.
Those are just minimums I would list.
I keep extra suits mostly in the bank unless I kwow there is a chance I will go into an instance that day requiring something different. If I know I am going to want to do a pug instance I will have alternate suits for either paladin, priest, shaman, or druid.
Professions hurt too...
Herbalism and Mining can take a bag slot simply because of the myraid of drops that you get across a day.
Skinning is not as bad, but TBC did put out many new types requiring nearly a pack at times
Alchemy, if you work in the field takes a lot of space, though after changes it might not be worthwhile to do field work as pot use will be restricted, hence less.
Leatherworking, Tailoring, Engineering, Blacksmithing, and Jewelcrafting, tend to be city based only so you don't need to carry
Still, if you wanted to pile on more stuff.... are we addicted to being buffed to the nines?
Offensive and Defensive Elixirs. Scrolls (which might become more valuable if they stack with elixirs). Protection Pots.
Inventory management is part of the game, I am pretty sloppy at times and really need to sit down and delete a bunch of stuff (holiday stuff that is useless or stacks badly)
Won't count:
Water - (I think that was a typo)
Food x 2
Health pot x 2
Bandages x 2
Buff pots & scrolls x2-4
Total 8-10 (I imagine warriors carry about the same)
Will count:
Instantx2, deadlyx2, woundx1, cripplex1, anetheticx1,mindx1, thistlex2, tools, blindingx2, flashx2
Total 15... or tools + 14 specials.
That would be the better part of a 18 slot bag devoted just to letting a rogue be a rogue.
I don't believe I said we tote around more than every other class EVAR. I said it would be nice to have a poison bag that doesn't take a slot akin to the keyring. That would save 8 of the 15. Nothing crazy. I also don't believe I say, "hey come jump my ****** because of my opinion" :roll:
To clear something up about poisons: chance to dispell is not the same as chance to resist...
The upcoming change will result in a buff to those with green/blue weapons. It will result in a nerf to those with epics. Many epics are 100+ level items so this will be a significant drop. I think it's a fair change that needs made. You should be able to very reasonably dispel poison.
However, vile poisons and mastery aside there should not be a 0% difficulty to dispel unless you want 0% chance to resist. Two 70s will not have 0% on either of these although you can increase resist significantly with gear and mastery and reduce it with mastery. It takes effort for the rogue to get it on you, it shouldn't be utterly free to get off. You have plenty of ways to increase resist. Do that.
Also (to those whom it applies), don't go on some rampaging bitch fit with me about some jackass rogue you play with in your guild/pugs or whatever. A stupid player is a stupid player. It has nothing to do with the class and it has nothing to do with me. Some of you seem unbelievably bitter about rogues. Maybe you should: roll one, quit WoW, get a life, yada yada. You have options other than stomping around like babies you know. Have you once seen me go bitching about *your* class? Settle down lest you represent your own class as a bunch of whiners.
What was that about resist gear sets not being needed? I don't follow. Do they have +80 resist pieces at level 70? I think with all my fire resist gear at 62 I am still under the max.
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