World of Warcraft 2.1 patch notes

[Pacemaker]

I recently quit, but I know hybrid classes need TONS of bag space if they actually do more than one thing. I have a friend who is a druid who carries the following around everywhere 1 complete set of healing gear, 1 complete set of tanking gear, and 1 complete set of dps gear. That's nearly a bag and a half of just spare gear and that doesn't include pots reagents etc.

On my Rogue I typically had 20-30 bag slots (the disclamer here is I didn't pvp so I didn't need as many slots for some items, but if you are PVP'ing you don't need bag space and if you are PVE you don't need all the rogue "toys" and you can bank them along with your PVP gear), on my priest I typically had 10-20, on my shaman I was lucky to have 5 or 6.

 

[Aikouka]

Eh... my rogue and my mage have the most space available in their bags, in my opinion. Although, my rogue does have the most bag space available (88 compared to everyone else having 80); I also removed all of his extra sets (resistances mainly). I think people tend to overstate how much their class uses anyway... since I play every single class, I do agree that classes that don't always heal tend to have it bad as they usually carry two sets of gear with them, but that's just the life of a healer.... I mean, even my level 21 Paladin has a set that he uses specifically for healing (mostly int/stam or int/spirit stuff) and then he has his normal gear (str/stam or int/stam).

Poisons can take up a bit of space though... that's why I don't make a full set of poisons anymore. If I'm going out to farm, I'll make a farming "set" of poisons (maybe some deadlies, instants, cripplies, etc). Filling up my top row of my bag (it's split into 12 columns) with my hearthstone, thieves tools, mount and poisons was counterproductive. I've also begun to lower the amount of crap that I keep in my bag such as a trinket I may only use once in a blue moon.

Unfortunately now, my bank is pretty much full :laugh:.

 

[cKGunslinger]

What exactly is this sap change? I've being playing my 29 Rogue exclusively for 3-4 months now (don't feel like leveling my main,) and I've being using an imp-sap build, because I'm not there for DPS, but for CC and flag-running.

As such, my DPS isn't that great, due to my spec. Is this saying we get improved sap for free now? Awesome!

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: torpid
What was that about resist gear sets not being needed? I don't follow. Do they have +80 resist pieces at level 70? I think with all my fire resist gear at 62 I am still under the max.

Resist gear at 70 typically has 35-50+ resist per piece, allowing you to use a few pieces to great effect, thus wearing more of your normal gear in your resist "suit" and saving bag/bank space.

Whoever said we should bank suits we don't know we'll be needing obviously doesn't have a healer main. Just one of the many wrong assumptions typically made by dps classes. Believe me, you guys have it easy in every aspect of the game.

Poisons should absolutely have a 0% base dispel resist, as only 3 classes can cure them as a counter. This is the whole idea behind Vile Poisons and Poison Mastery; to make them harder to dispel or stack deadly / wound more quickly to make dispelling a mana/time sink. That their base dispel resist is being buffed is just one more tribute to the hilarity that ensues when a dev team is thoroughly stupid and incompetent and doesn't give a rat's ass about class balance.

 

[Matthias99]

Poisons should absolutely have a 0% base dispel resist, as only 3 classes can cure them as a counter.

While only three classes have an explicit 'remove poison' ability, there are a number of items that can remove poison effects (and other things). Restorative Elixirs are really nice for this. The dwarf racial (Stoneform) also removes poison. My guess would be they're changing it because poisons are easily dispelled within seconds by a competent Arena team with a Druid/Shaman/Paladin unless you take at least 2-3 points in Vile Poisons. I know you don't give a crap about the Arena system, but it's what they are trying to make the most balanced and competitive PvP system right now.

What exactly is this sap change?

It used to be that sap always took you out of stealth, and the Improved Sap talent had three levels that gave you a 30/60/90% chance to stay in stealth when you used it.

During the last Rogue review they made it so that Sap has a 90% base chance for you to stay in stealth, and Improved Sap was changed to have two levels that gave you a 95/100% chance to stay in stealth.

Basically, you're now getting 2/2 Improved Sap for free, and 'Improved Sap' will give you a longer range on Sap and Blind, and lower energy cost for both abilities.

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: Matthias99
While only three classes have an explicit 'remove poison' ability, there are a number of items that can remove poison effects (and other things). Restorative Elixirs are really nice for this. The dwarf racial (Stoneform) also removes poison. My guess would be they're changing it because poisons are easily dispelled within seconds by a competent Arena team with a Druid/Shaman/Paladin unless you take at least 2-3 points in Vile Poisons. I know you don't give a crap about the Arena system, but it's what they are trying to make the most balanced and competitive PvP system right now.

Personally I wonder if this poison change will affect Hunter poisons as well? Since hunters also tend to use poisons like Viper Sting on mana users and such.

Originally posted by: Matthias99
It used to be that sap always took you out of stealth, and the Improved Sap talent had three levels that gave you a 30/60/90% chance to stay in stealth when you used it.

During the last Rogue review they made it so that Sap has a 90% base chance for you to stay in stealth, and Improved Sap was changed to have two levels that gave you a 95/100% chance to stay in stealth.

Basically, you're now getting 2/2 Improved Sap for free, and 'Improved Sap' will give you a longer range on Sap and Blind, and lower energy cost for both abilities.

The current sap has 0% chance to return you to stealth. The current Improved Sap does 50%/100% of a chance to return you to stealth (they lowered it from 3 points required). I think any player that's a rogue will enjoy this as one of the worst things was having to run away from the mobs after sapping and Vanishing to remove aggro off yourself isn't an option (Vanish removes the sap unless the sap is applied to another player in PVP).

 

[ggnl]

Originally posted by: CKent

Whoever said we should bank suits we don't know we'll be needing obviously doesn't have a healer main. Just one of the many wrong assumptions typically made by dps classes. Believe me, you guys have it easy in every aspect of the game.

I have a 60 priest and 63 shaman (among others), and I never keep my healing suit in my bags when I'm out questing. There's just no point when a bank is never more than 5 minutes away and any group can summon you straight to an instance with the meeting stone.

I have a 65 rogue as well and I can say with a lot of certainty that rogues definitely have it worse than shamans when it comes to storage space. Just for our class stuff we have five types of poisons (I always carry at least a stack of each because I play on a pvp server, and multiple stacks of instant poison), at least one stack of blinding powder, multiple stacks of flash powder, and last, but not least, the stupid theives tools.

Even rogues don't have it that bad compared to warlocks and hunters. So this argument is kind of pointless IMHO.

Poisons should absolutely have a 0% base dispel resist, as only 3 classes can cure them as a counter. This is the whole idea behind Vile Poisons and Poison Mastery; to make them harder to dispel or stack deadly / wound more quickly to make dispelling a mana/time sink. That their base dispel resist is being buffed is just one more tribute to the hilarity that ensues when a dev team is thoroughly stupid and incompetent and doesn't give a rat's ass about class balance.

Just about every healing class can remove poisons, shamans have an AoE dispell. Decursive and color changing unit frames have made dispelling almost an afterthought in pvp. A base resist and talents like master poisoner for rogues or contaigon for warlocks are pretty much the only way to keep your poisons/dots from being immediately dispelled every time you put one down.

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Originally posted by: Matthias99
It used to be that sap always took you out of stealth, and the Improved Sap talent had three levels that gave you a 30/60/90% chance to stay in stealth when you used it.

During the last Rogue review they made it so that Sap has a 90% base chance for you to stay in stealth, and Improved Sap was changed to have two levels that gave you a 95/100% chance to stay in stealth.

Basically, you're now getting 2/2 Improved Sap for free, and 'Improved Sap' will give you a longer range on Sap and Blind, and lower energy cost for both abilities.

The current sap has 0% chance to return you to stealth. The current Improved Sap does 50%/100% of a chance to return you to stealth (they lowered it from 3 points required). I think any player that's a rogue will enjoy this as one of the worst things was having to run away from the mobs after sapping and Vanishing to remove aggro off yourself isn't an option (Vanish removes the sap unless the sap is applied to another player in PVP).

Ah, sorry. I think it was like that on the test realms at some point (90% base, 95/100% with talents) before they went with the final version. I have a high-level Rogue, but I have barely played him in the last six months (I started a new character with my friends on a new server and have been leveling that one up.)

In any case -- now you get 100% stay-in-stealth sap, no talent points required. It's definitely an overdue change, at least for PvE.

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: ggnl
I have a 60 priest and 63 shaman (among others), and I never keep my healing suit in my bags when I'm out questing. There's just no point when a bank is never more than 5 minutes away and any group can summon you straight to an instance with the meeting stone.

I have a 65 rogue as well and I can say with a lot of certainty that rogues definitely have it worse than shamans when it comes to storage space. Just for our class stuff we have five types of poisons (I always carry at least a stack of each because I play on a pvp server, and multiple stacks of instant poison), at least one stack of blinding powder, multiple stacks of flash powder, and last, but not least, the stupid theives tools.

Even rogues don't have it that bad compared to warlocks and hunters. So this argument is kind of pointless IMHO.

So you're mid-60s, levelling up, probably mostly solo... that kinda negates whatever you have to say about it. Done any heroics? My role in them may change at any given moment, necessitating a gear swap. Shamans have it far worse than rogues, based on my experience with an alt-turned-main rogue a while back, lv 60 in full tier 1.

Just about every healing class can remove poisons, shamans have an AoE dispell. Decursive and color changing unit frames have made dispelling almost an afterthought in pvp. A base resist and talents like master poisoner for rogues or contaigon for warlocks are pretty much the only way to keep your poisons/dots from being immediately dispelled every time you put one down.

Shamans can remove poisons? Er... oops, my bad... being unable to for 3 friggin months kinda made me forget about that :laugh: Hey, one of these days... erm, years... they may fix other bugs as well

There was a 0% dispell chance for 2 years with no problem. Why should it change now? If shamans had a passive aura which ticked every 1 second with a 200 yard range which broke stealth, what would you think as a rogue? How would you feel about shamans trying to justify it with questionable logic? Sometimes you have to step back and realize that while it might be good for your class, and fun to be overpowered, some things harm overall balance to the point where they truly denigrate the game as a whole.

 

[Smilin]

You sure do whine a lot. You should probably quit WoW I think. It sounds horrible for you.

 

[ggnl]

Originally posted by: Smilin
You sure do whine a lot. You should probably quit WoW I think. It sounds horrible for you.

I could point out that the game has never been balanced for 1 on 1 pvp, but it seems like he's just venting his frustration with the game at this point. We all know that healing is a thankless job...

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: CKent
If shamans had a passive aura which ticked every 1 second with a 200 yard range which broke stealth, what would you think as a rogue?

Uh.. WTH does that have to do with anything? That's quite a retarded comparison. It's like apples to an irrational numbers equation.

How would you feel about shamans trying to justify it with questionable logic?

Like yours or different somehow?


What's the big gripe with poisons anyhow? Dispel it twice already. It's not like it's a 1000dps dot so you'll be dead before you can try. You have a far greater probability of a successful dispel than the rogue had to get it successfully applied. Heck to make deadly do any real damage you have to get it applied five times (and the target is gonna sit still and let you do it :roll: )! It's Not like you have to dispel it five times either. That's a lot of work on the rogues part just for someone to snap their fingers and undo it. If you are going to gripe about class balance you need to pick a better topic. This argument is weak. Gripe about Cloak of Shadows or something.

The whole "XYZ class" is overpowered argument is so lame anyway. Things are about as equal as they can really get with such vastly different classes. Some may or may not agree but only real nutbags get bent out of shape over what subtle differences exist.

Know what else is lame? Treating ggnl like he's some utter noob. Just because he hasn't done heroics doesn't mean he can't count the number of inventory items in his bag without taking off his shoes. Math lesson: Rogue carries 15 class specific items around. An entire (every single piece!) set of armor is 8 items. Which is greater? It would take 3 entire sets of armor (2x8 + 8 you're both wearing) to surpass what a rogue has to carry just to do his core job. Oh yeah, almost forgot...rogues have to tote around at least partial armor sets of their own. Just admit it. Rogues have to carry around a lot of crap. (yes so do locks and hunters). If you can't admit water is wet there's not much point in talking to you. Pick some other argument to win.

 

[CKent]

Sorry if I'm being a dick, I suppose I'm a little irritable from quitting this growing addiction. I have no reason to argue game balance in a game I don't play anymore. :beer:

 

[imported_Shivetya]

I think far too many people carry too much stuff, I am surprised the kitchen sink isn't in their list.

For the most part, even when my rogue goes into instances, I rarely have more than 4 stacks of poisons. They last more than long enough and outside of dps poison and crippling the others should not be required. Sorry, but if its going to heal we have left it alive too long - thats always been my rule. Slowing the casting of its spells, hell if it gets one off I am not doing my job as I always seem to be assigned the extra caster if we cannot CC it otherwise.

I do agree with the comment about not having to carry the extra sets, it really isn't needed. Base yourself in Shat and leave the sets there. If people cannot wait the 5 minutes it takes for you to assume the role THEY want you to fill then why bother dealing with them? If you have such a hard time getting into instances otherwise then your the one that needs to fix it... don't wait for others to invite you, find a group that wants you all the time, not just out of conveinence - then you won't have to dedicate pack space just in case.

 

[skace]

Originally posted by: Aikouka
2) Druid epic flight form either better be very expensive or very hard. Druid's never received an epic travel form, I don't know why they're getting this epic flight form. They may complain "well, we need to buy the normal flight training to even buy an epic flight training!" Yeah, guess what... Druids usually skip superior land mounts, but now they have to buy the superior land mount training just to buy the epic land mount training. Not to mention money in BC is quite the joke. So in other words, there's no precedence for druids to be receiving this new form.

Did you just bitch about the original travel class getting a flying travel form? Something it should have had at game release if it weren't too buggy? Seriously now, time to get rid of the warlock and paladin forms if you are going to start thinking that way.

 

[Sunner]

Yay, more warrior nerfs, I didn't see that one coming! /sarcasm
Ah well, at least we got a bugfix for intercept, it's only a little more than 3 years late, but better late then never, eh?

Ah well, at least they're leaving my warlock alone, it's nice to have at least one of the privileged classes.

Oh and it'd be swell if they could reduce the banned ability cooldown limit for arenas to 5 minutes.
Prep rogues are so retardedly overpowered in 2vs2 or 3vs3 arenas anyone with a clue would see the need for that.

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: skace
Did you just bitch about the original travel class getting a flying travel form? Something it should have had at game release if it weren't too buggy? Seriously now, time to get rid of the warlock and paladin forms if you are going to start thinking that way.

Warlocks and Paladins don't get a flying mount quest ... although I think a Warlock flying mount might look pretty sweet if done right. What I mentioned is why the class even gets an epic flying form when it doesn't have an epic travel form... essentially, there's no basis for them to even get one? The only reason could be druids complaining that there's no point to their flight form since they have to buy the flying training to get the epic flying mount anyway. But that's also true for the epic land mount and Blizzard never gave them an epic travel form? Also, Shamans have their own "travel form" (Ghost Wolf), so why don't they get "Ghost Hawk" or something like that?

Hence there's no valid reason for them to get one. There's more pertinent things, in my opinion, that Blizzard should be addressing rather than appeasing the pissed off druids who're angry because Blizzard finally nerfed them. Heck, I've found bugs with the Draenei race that aren't even in the patch notes... I'll have to check the PTR to see if they're fixed or not.

Now, onto another fun topic:

Originally posted by: CKent
There was a 0% dispell chance for 2 years with no problem. Why should it change now?

You know, this may not make sense until you look at one aspect that you completely forget about with poisons. Poisons are classified as poisons, yes; however, poisons are nature damage and just like nature spells, poisons can be resisted or partially resisted. So, we've established that they're essentially akin to a spell as they have a standard spell type. Since you're a Shaman, I'm sure you've seen something like, "You failed to purge (mob)." or something along those lines. I know I have... when I pull Shaman mobs on my Shaman, I typically do it with Purge to remove their Lightning Shield, but one time I started taking damage when hitting the guy and I had no idea... well lo-and-behold, my purge failed.

Something failing is the same message given when you fail to dispel a poison. I received a message similar to that when a rogue hit my mage and I gained Blazing Speed, "Your Blazing Speed failed to remove crippling poison." or something like that. So, what I'm getting at is that it's not just poisons that were affected, it's anything that can be removed.

Why'd they change it? To make things non-trivial. Yes, people who're used to one-click-does-it-all functionality will not be used to this as they'll expect their dispelling spell to remove the associated debuff/buff.

 

[Smilin]

Just as an FYI on that druid epic flight form.

My buddy who is a druid is always falling out of formation/follow when we're flying somewhere with a pally who's using the crusader aura (10% faster mount speed). To gain the bonus he has to actually leave flight form and get on his flying mount.

I would like to see blizzard fix this...even though I'm not a druid. It just has a group-annoy factor to it.

 

[QuantumPion]

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Originally posted by: skace
Did you just bitch about the original travel class getting a flying travel form? Something it should have had at game release if it weren't too buggy? Seriously now, time to get rid of the warlock and paladin forms if you are going to start thinking that way.

Warlocks and Paladins don't get a flying mount quest ... although I think a Warlock flying mount might look pretty sweet if done right. What I mentioned is why the class even gets an epic flying form when it doesn't have an epic travel form... essentially, there's no basis for them to even get one? The only reason could be druids complaining that there's no point to their flight form since they have to buy the flying training to get the epic flying mount anyway. But that's also true for the epic land mount and Blizzard never gave them an epic travel form? Also, Shamans have their own "travel form" (Ghost Wolf), so why don't they get "Ghost Hawk" or something like that?

Hence there's no valid reason for them to get one. There's more pertinent things, in my opinion, that Blizzard should be addressing rather than appeasing the pissed off druids who're angry because Blizzard finally nerfed them. Heck, I've found bugs with the Draenei race that aren't even in the patch notes... I'll have to check the PTR to see if they're fixed or not.

How does not having an "epic travel form" have anything to do with getting an epic flying form? It's a non-sequitur. It's like saying "Hunters don't get an aspect to increase mount speed, why should paladins?" Different classes receive different abilities and bonuses. It's an incentive blizzard adds to underplayed classes, druids still being the #1 least played.

Druids never complained about not getting an epic flying form, the announcement was very much a surprise (a very welcome one at that). Also, blizzard announced the epic flight form well before any mention of Druid nerfs. Your whining is completely unfounded.

 

[QuantumPion]

Originally posted by: Smilin
Just as an FYI on that druid epic flight form.

My buddy who is a druid is always falling out of formation/follow when we're flying somewhere with a pally who's using the crusader aura (10% faster mount speed). To gain the bonus he has to actually leave flight form and get on his flying mount.

I would like to see blizzard fix this...even though I'm not a druid. It just has a group-annoy factor to it.

In addition to this, flight forms don't benefit from mount speed increase effects like the riding crop, which is why I use my gryphon almost as often as my flight form.

 

[slag]

Originally posted by: Shivetya
Concerning pack management.

Minimums, as in at most one stack of each (unrealistic I know)

Really only 2 classes lose a pack, Hunters and Warlocks. Shaman and Rogues both have items they cannot go without 1 slot of (Shaman = totems/ankhs, Rogues = tools + 5 specials.

Hunters, 1 pack lost to ammo. Food, Water, Health Pot, Mana Pot, Food, Bandages

Rogues, Food, Water, Health Pot, Bandages, Thief Tools, Instant Poison, Deadly Poison, Crippling Poison, Wound/Other Poison, 1 extra weapon (for non-dagger builds ambush), blinding powder, flash powder.

Mages, Food, Water, Mana Gem, Health Pot, Mana Pot, Bandages

Warlocks, Health Pot, Mana Pot, Bandages, 1 pack lost to Soul Shards

Paladins, Food, Water, Health Pot, Mana Pot, Bandages

Warriors, Food, Health Pot, Bandages

Priests, Food, Water, Health Pot, Mana Pot, Bandages

Druids, Food, Water, Health Pot, Mana Pot, Bandages

Shaman, Food, Water, Health Pot, Mana Pot, Bandages, 4 totems, Ankhs.

Those are just minimums I would list.

I keep extra suits mostly in the bank unless I kwow there is a chance I will go into an instance that day requiring something different. If I know I am going to want to do a pug instance I will have alternate suits for either paladin, priest, shaman, or druid.

Professions hurt too...
Herbalism and Mining can take a bag slot simply because of the myraid of drops that you get across a day.
Skinning is not as bad, but TBC did put out many new types requiring nearly a pack at times
Alchemy, if you work in the field takes a lot of space, though after changes it might not be worthwhile to do field work as pot use will be restricted, hence less.
Leatherworking, Tailoring, Engineering, Blacksmithing, and Jewelcrafting, tend to be city based only so you don't need to carry


Still, if you wanted to pile on more stuff.... are we addicted to being buffed to the nines?
Offensive and Defensive Elixirs. Scrolls (which might become more valuable if they stack with elixirs). Protection Pots.


Inventory management is part of the game, I am pretty sloppy at times and really need to sit down and delete a bunch of stuff (holiday stuff that is useless or stacks badly)

Druids also have more sets of gear to carry around than ANY other class.
Personally, I have +magic damage gear, +heal gear (some same gear between both sets), +AP gear for kitty form where i wont take damage, +Tank gear, and if I'm not going to be near a bank, I might be carrying some +FR, NR, or SR gear (but thats should stay in the bank really). Then I have to carry some damn berries around so everyone can get the MOTW buff or they bitch about it. Gonna need at least 80 of those so thats 4 slots right there. Also need some seeds so i can cast my rez spell every 30 mins or so.. hmm, thats another 2 slots minimum right there. I typically use 3-4 slots for mana pots, 2 slots for agil pots/strength pots(scrolls), 2-4 slots for mana drinks, water, etc). I also carry around 4 staves as part of my armor sets..

Y'all got it easy.

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: QuantumPion
How does not having an "epic travel form" have anything to do with getting an epic flying form? It's a non-sequitur. It's like saying "Hunters don't get an aspect to increase mount speed, why should paladins?" Different classes receive different abilities and bonuses. It's an incentive blizzard adds to underplayed classes, druids still being the #1 least played.

Except I'm talking about the same class... nice try though.

Originally posted by: QuantumPion
Druids never complained about not getting an epic flying form, the announcement was very much a surprise (a very welcome one at that). Also, blizzard announced the epic flight form well before any mention of Druid nerfs. Your whining is completely unfounded.

I spoke about complaining about the druid nerfs, not about an epic flight form... nice try though.

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: Aikouka
You know, this may not make sense until you look at one aspect that you completely forget about with poisons. Poisons are classified as poisons, yes; however, poisons are nature damage and just like nature spells, poisons can be resisted or partially resisted. So, we've established that they're essentially akin to a spell as they have a standard spell type. Since you're a Shaman, I'm sure you've seen something like, "You failed to purge (mob)." or something along those lines. I know I have... when I pull Shaman mobs on my Shaman, I typically do it with Purge to remove their Lightning Shield, but one time I started taking damage when hitting the guy and I had no idea... well lo-and-behold, my purge failed.

Something failing is the same message given when you fail to dispel a poison. I received a message similar to that when a rogue hit my mage and I gained Blazing Speed, "Your Blazing Speed failed to remove crippling poison." or something like that. So, what I'm getting at is that it's not just poisons that were affected, it's anything that can be removed.

Why'd they change it? To make things non-trivial. Yes, people who're used to one-click-does-it-all functionality will not be used to this as they'll expect their dispelling spell to remove the associated debuff/buff.

Only errors I get with purge are nothing to dispel, or immune (eg. bubbled pallies). Maybe the error message you're thinking of is from before the buff check change - a long time ago, you could purge buffless targets and you'd get an error along those lines. Now it won't let you cast it unless they have buffs (you can still waste it trying to 'pell a bubbled pally or IB'd mage).

Your poison "logic" sounds like the ambiguous wording that always precedes taking from one class and giving to another. Rogues already kill everything in PvP except bears and warriors in 0.002 seconds, they can't exactly put "Rogues were having so much trouble with poison curing classes we decided to buff them! Lolz!" in the patch notes... Plain and simple, dispelling poison is almost uniquely a PvP thing, aside from a select few PvE encounters (moroes, romulo & julienne). This was done because the developers of that game really have some kind of hardon for buffing the strong and nerfing the weak. Being the strongest class already, they couldn't let rogues rest; they needed to buff them even more. Likewise, they had to nerf the weakest class, shamans.

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: CKent

Originally posted by: Aikouka
You know, this may not make sense until you look at one aspect that you completely forget about with poisons. Poisons are classified as poisons, yes; however, poisons are nature damage and just like nature spells, poisons can be resisted or partially resisted. So, we've established that they're essentially akin to a spell as they have a standard spell type. Since you're a Shaman, I'm sure you've seen something like, "You failed to purge (mob)." or something along those lines. I know I have... when I pull Shaman mobs on my Shaman, I typically do it with Purge to remove their Lightning Shield, but one time I started taking damage when hitting the guy and I had no idea... well lo-and-behold, my purge failed.

Something failing is the same message given when you fail to dispel a poison. I received a message similar to that when a rogue hit my mage and I gained Blazing Speed, "Your Blazing Speed failed to remove crippling poison." or something like that. So, what I'm getting at is that it's not just poisons that were affected, it's anything that can be removed.

Why'd they change it? To make things non-trivial. Yes, people who're used to one-click-does-it-all functionality will not be used to this as they'll expect their dispelling spell to remove the associated debuff/buff.

Only errors I get with purge are nothing to dispel, or immune (eg. bubbled pallies). Maybe the error message you're thinking of is from before the buff check change - a long time ago, you could purge buffless targets and you'd get an error along those lines. Now it won't let you cast it unless they have buffs (you can still waste it trying to 'pell a bubbled pally or IB'd mage).

Your poison "logic" sounds like the ambiguous wording that always precedes taking from one class and giving to another. Rogues already kill everything in PvP except bears and warriors in 0.002 seconds, they can't exactly put "Rogues were having so much trouble with poison curing classes we decided to buff them! Lolz!" in the patch notes... Plain and simple, dispelling poison is almost uniquely a PvP thing, aside from a select few PvE encounters (moroes, romulo & julienne). This was done because the developers of that game really have some kind of hardon for buffing the strong and nerfing the weak. Being the strongest class already, they couldn't let rogues rest; they needed to buff them even more. Likewise, they had to nerf the weakest class, shamans.

Wow you really hate rogues. Lose one argument, move on to the next? I have no idea how you are figuring them to be the strongest class. If the lil bastard gets the first shot off on you, wait till the stun wears off then sheep, fear, stun him or something. He'll do a lot of damage during the opening shots but after that he's done. He's out of stealth, energy sitting at 0, no range attack, soft armor against melee and no real tricks up his sleeve until he regains stealth. If he does you know he's around somewhere just AOE and he'll be popped back in the open in no time.

Maybe you just can't play your class. One of the nastiest PvP guys in our guild is a Shaman. He's always at the top of the PvP damage charts.

Sure, rogues can be nasty in PvP but that's only if played right. Same with any class. If you've gotten your butt kicked by a bunch of them it's not because the class is overpowered, you've just been running into good players. With their low health, armor, and lack of range, rogues can be smacked around by squishies just as easily as they can do the smacking. It's all about who has initiative. Rogues typically get initiative first but they can only sustain it for the duration of 100 energy...not enough time to kill.

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: Smilin
Wow you really hate rogues. Lose one argument, move on to the next?

No, I'm right. I just don't see the point in arguing it.