1-on-1, especially with the right build and good gear, Rogues can be quite nasty for almost any class. If you're not well-geared yourself (or are geared up as a glass cannon) 100-to-zero stunlocks are quite possible on cloth wearers if the Rogue is built for burst DPS. It's less common in BC, since Stamina got cheaper and Resilience cuts down on crits, but it happens. It's not unique to Rogues; you can be chain-feared to death by a Warlock pretty easily if they get a few crits in a row and you don't resist anything. Marksmanship Hunters and Fire Mages can both deal huge amounts of damage quickly if they get back-to-back crits, leaving you almost no time to react.
A well-played Rogue willing to blow multiple cooldowns and Preparation can beat nearly anyone with comparable gear 1-on-1, or at least be assured of getting away. Cloak of Shadows is also very good both offensively and defensively (I don't want to get into a long discussion on CloS; in short, Rogues are supposed to be extremely good against casters when they can get the jump on them).
However, Rogues have serious issues dealing with multiple targets for any extended amount of time. Hard targets like Paladins, Protection/Arms Warriors, and bearform Druids (or Shamans with shields to some extent) can give them fits, as almost all the damage they can do is physical. Hunters can track Rogues while they are stealthed, and traps can make it hard to get close. Against any class that can deal damage at range -- if the Rogue is snared/immobilized and doesn't have cooldowns available, they are screwed. Blowing all your cooldowns and using Preparation may allow you to wtfpwn anyone -- but you can only do that once every ten minutes, and it's still no guarantee of even surviving a 2-on-1. Speccing deep into the Subtlety tree for Preparation also significantly reduces your crit% and burst damage potential.
Rogue/Shaman is a bad matchup for the Shaman -- the only snare you have is Frost Shock, and you're very vulnerable to being stunlocked and kited. But the game is not balanced around 1v1 PvP/duels. Rogues and Warlocks are VERY strong 1v1 (especially against certain classes) but significantly less dominant in any kind of group PvP situation. Paladins and Shamans are both not as strong 1v1 but much better in a group, due to their support abilities (and Chain Lightning. Can I tell you how much I hate Chain Lightning? And Earth Shock?)
Chain lightning does suck. Can I just say how awful getting chain feared is too? Or f'n "sheep/pig/frog-locked" 
Stunlocks are pretty much a myth tho.
Cheapsot, whack, whack, kidney shot, whack whack, vanish, cheapshot (shorter duration this time), whack whack, kidney (shorter), prep if you have it, vanish, cheap (very short), kidney (very short). Maybe throw a gouge or two in there depending on how things land. You'll also be struggling for enough combo points to make those kidney shots of any useful duration. It takes some lucky bonus combo point and bonus energy hits (assuming you're spec'd right) to really be pulling off one 5 pointer after another.
This is of course assuming you have 10 full minutes of cooldowns in your pocket and you're spec'd right with prep and all.
Now it sounds like a lot but the kicker that really makes the stunlock a myth is this: You've burned every combo point you've made on stunning rather than damage. Even the "whack, whack" inbetween isn't much since using things like backstab would burn so much energy you would have trouble pulling off the next stun.
So although you've stunned for a long time your target is still alive -- and you're out of cooldowns, energy, combo points, and stealth (incl vanish!). Uh-oh.
If you can get a PvP ally to throw a stun in there (pally hammer or something) so you can spend at least one 5-pack on damage you have something. Catching a target in the backfield that's half dead can net you a stunlock but a good ambush might do the trick faster. I think this is what makes people think of a stunlock...the getting caught at half health thing. When you die you tend to remember the frustration of being stunned and watching it happen. You don't really remember that you were half dead to begin with.
Stunlocks are pretty much a myth tho.
Cheapsot, whack, whack, kidney shot, whack whack, vanish, cheapshot (shorter duration this time), whack whack, kidney (shorter), prep if you have it, vanish, cheap (very short), kidney (very short). Maybe throw a gouge or two in there depending on how things land. You'll also be struggling for enough combo points to make those kidney shots of any useful duration. It takes some lucky bonus combo point and bonus energy hits (assuming you're spec'd right) to really be pulling off one 5 pointer after another.
This is of course assuming you have 10 full minutes of cooldowns in your pocket and you're spec'd right with prep and all.
Now it sounds like a lot but the kicker that really makes the stunlock a myth is this: You've burned every combo point you've made on stunning rather than damage. Even the "whack, whack" inbetween isn't much since using things like backstab would burn so much energy you would have trouble pulling off the next stun.
So although you've stunned for a long time your target is still alive -- and you're out of cooldowns, energy, combo points, and stealth (incl vanish!). Uh-oh.
If you can get a PvP ally to throw a stun in there (pally hammer or something) so you can spend at least one 5-pack on damage you have something. Catching a target in the backfield that's half dead can net you a stunlock but a good ambush might do the trick faster. I think this is what makes people think of a stunlock...the getting caught at half health thing. When you die you tend to remember the frustration of being stunned and watching it happen. You don't really remember that you were half dead to begin with.
CKent
Diamond Member
- Aug 17, 2005
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Rogues started the game overpowered, few would argue that. They debatably needed to be looked at for a few months prior to their 1.12 review, but if anything that buff brought them right back into overpowered land, and the TBC mitigation nerf, AP itemization buff and their higher level abilities (notably CloS) have propelled them to the top of the PvP food chain again. The 2nd-in-command developer, whose name in EQ was Tigole Bitties, played a rogue. I don't think it's any coincidence that someone immature and stupid enough to name his character that would be responsible for such awful balance and rogue favortism...
I contend that shamans were always balanced. 59% of WoW players are alliance, and I believe it used to be closer to 70%. The alliance can't win a battleground to save their lives. Rather than blame themselves, they've just scapegoated shamans for 2 years, and being the majority, their voice has been heard loud & clear. Many actually do beleive shamans were overpowered. It's funny watching them blame horde racials now...
Further, as elemental became a viable PvP spec due to ZG and later itemization, we became the only class with two such dramatically different PvP damage output specs, and no easy way to tell between us on sight (such as a cat vs. a boomkin). Each spec was balanced if you knew how to fight it, but too many people just threw their pretty little elvish hands in the air and gave up, citing overpoweredness, frustrated by those huge windfury crits followed by those huge chain lightning crits (because all shamans were specced 31/31/31 and had gear with both huge amounts of spell damage and melee stats, ya know).
CKent
Diamond Member
- Aug 17, 2005
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Originally posted by: Smilin
Chain lightning does suck. Can I just say how awful getting chain feared is too? Or f'n "sheep/pig/frog-locked"
Stunlocks are pretty much a myth tho.
Cheapsot, whack, whack, kidney shot, whack whack, vanish, cheapshot (shorter duration this time), whack whack, kidney (shorter), prep if you have it, vanish, cheap (very short), kidney (very short). Maybe throw a gouge or two in there depending on how things land. You'll also be struggling for enough combo points to make those kidney shots of any useful duration. It takes some lucky bonus combo point and bonus energy hits (assuming you're spec'd right) to really be pulling off one 5 pointer after another.
This is of course assuming you have 10 full minutes of cooldowns in your pocket and you're spec'd right with prep and all.
Now it sounds like a lot but the kicker that really makes the stunlock a myth is this: You've burned every combo point you've made on stunning rather than damage. Even the "whack, whack" inbetween isn't much since using things like backstab would burn so much energy you would have trouble pulling off the next stun.
So although you've stunned for a long time your target is still alive -- and you're out of cooldowns, energy, combo points, and stealth (incl vanish!). Uh-oh.
If you can get a PvP ally to throw a stun in there (pally hammer or something) so you can spend at least one 5-pack on damage you have something. Catching a target in the backfield that's half dead can net you a stunlock but a good ambush might do the trick faster. I think this is what makes people think of a stunlock...the getting caught at half health thing. When you die you tend to remember the frustration of being stunned and watching it happen. You don't really remember that you were half dead to begin with.
You must be an awful rogue, most can kill me in 4-8 seconds despite having over 7k armor with a shield. Stunlocking was hard for rogues at 60 vs. a decently armored opponent, but now you only have to keep it up for the length of 1 CS + 1 KS to get your kill. Only a bear or a warrior can withstand it, and the latter can have trouble doing so. The mitigation nerf combined with the AP itemization buff has seen to it that mail and even a shield ~= cloth. Escape abilities such as blink, death coil, psychic scream, etc. are far more effective than armor now, so you could even consider mail/shield, if worn by a shaman, to be worse than cloth.
You probably choose to use your energy for backstabs / SS's instead of stuns. Nothing gets bad players going quite like seeing big crit numbers. Your comment equating being good at PvP with topping killing blows on the scoreboard seals the deal.
Ahem. **Bullsh1t** Ahem. Getting killed in 4 seconds with 7k armor??? A warrior having trouble withstanding it??? You're exagerating to try and win a losing argument. Your credibility just hit water while wrapped in paper.Originally posted by: CKent
Originally posted by: Smilin
Chain lightning does suck. Can I just say how awful getting chain feared is too? Or f'n "sheep/pig/frog-locked"
Stunlocks are pretty much a myth tho.
Cheapsot, whack, whack, kidney shot, whack whack, vanish, cheapshot (shorter duration this time), whack whack, kidney (shorter), prep if you have it, vanish, cheap (very short), kidney (very short). Maybe throw a gouge or two in there depending on how things land. You'll also be struggling for enough combo points to make those kidney shots of any useful duration. It takes some lucky bonus combo point and bonus energy hits (assuming you're spec'd right) to really be pulling off one 5 pointer after another.
This is of course assuming you have 10 full minutes of cooldowns in your pocket and you're spec'd right with prep and all.
Now it sounds like a lot but the kicker that really makes the stunlock a myth is this: You've burned every combo point you've made on stunning rather than damage. Even the "whack, whack" inbetween isn't much since using things like backstab would burn so much energy you would have trouble pulling off the next stun.
So although you've stunned for a long time your target is still alive -- and you're out of cooldowns, energy, combo points, and stealth (incl vanish!). Uh-oh.
If you can get a PvP ally to throw a stun in there (pally hammer or something) so you can spend at least one 5-pack on damage you have something. Catching a target in the backfield that's half dead can net you a stunlock but a good ambush might do the trick faster. I think this is what makes people think of a stunlock...the getting caught at half health thing. When you die you tend to remember the frustration of being stunned and watching it happen. You don't really remember that you were half dead to begin with.
You must be an awful rogue, most can kill me in 4-8 seconds despite having over 7k armor with a shield. Stunlocking was hard for rogues at 60 vs. a decently armored opponent, but now you only have to keep it up for the length of 1 CS + 1 KS to get your kill. Only a bear or a warrior can withstand it, and the latter can have trouble doing so. The mitigation nerf combined with the AP itemization buff has seen to it that mail and even a shield ~= cloth. Escape abilities such as blink, death coil, psychic scream, etc. are far more effective than armor now, so you could even consider mail/shield, if worn by a shaman, to be worse than cloth.
:roll: Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit either. I pretty much stated the opposite.
Stunlocks sure aren't a myth, though admittedly only good rogues seem to be able to do it right(as in, killing the opponent with him hardly to do crap for the entire duration).
The same problem that became so obvious pre-TBC is starting to rear it's ugly head again.
That is, damage scales vastly more than mitigation and hp.
A warrior in half decent blues at lvl 60 would generally beat a rogue with equal gear because he could outlast the stuns.
Give both Naxx gear, and the rogue will have the warrior down in seconds without trouble.
Same thing is starting to happen all over again, though at the moment very few chars are decked out in such good gear, but people are getting there.
I can kill the vast majority of rogues without much trouble, but the very few ones that are both well geared and good players will win most of the time, and that "most" is coming closer to "99% of the time" with every gear upgrade.
The same problem that became so obvious pre-TBC is starting to rear it's ugly head again.
That is, damage scales vastly more than mitigation and hp.
A warrior in half decent blues at lvl 60 would generally beat a rogue with equal gear because he could outlast the stuns.
Give both Naxx gear, and the rogue will have the warrior down in seconds without trouble.
Same thing is starting to happen all over again, though at the moment very few chars are decked out in such good gear, but people are getting there.
I can kill the vast majority of rogues without much trouble, but the very few ones that are both well geared and good players will win most of the time, and that "most" is coming closer to "99% of the time" with every gear upgrade.
100 percent health to 0 percent health with not even a split second opening to get out of it? Equally leveled and geared?
You show me that and I'll be the first to line up and gripe to blizzard. I don't think that would be remotely fair and would ruin the game for people.
You show me that and I'll be the first to line up and gripe to blizzard. I don't think that would be remotely fair and would ruin the game for people.
I didn't say not a split second, but what do you expect a person to do in a few seconds? Instagib the rogue?
Some classes have defenses, ways to control the fight, for example a lock can death coil, hunter could scatter shot, etc.
But a warrior? Shammy? Whatever other classes I'm forgetting.
Like I said, it isn't as bad as pre-TBC, back then it was utterly retarded, but I see no reason why it won't get there again in a while.
60 warrior with average gear, no BWL+ gear, say 4k hp and 4.5k armor, and maybe the capability to do 250-350 DPS depending on spec and such.
60 warrior with the best DPS gear the game has to offer in DPS gear, make that 5k hp and 5.5k armor, but the capability to do well over 600 DPS, approaching 1000 DPS with buffs.
70 warrior with decent blues/greens, 9k hp, 7-8k armor, capability of...600 DPS? Just a fictional example anyways.
Same warrior with gear from Hyjal and friends? An extra 1k hp and armor once again, but climbing towards 1000-1500 DPS depending on spec, buffs, etc.
And once again rogues with that kind of gear will own him in seconds due to the vastly superior scaling of DPS compared to mitigation and stamina.
Aikouka
Lifer
- Nov 27, 2001
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After the rogue change with Mutilate, the 100->0 stunlocks weren't that hard. But let me tell you, when I aimed for doing those, I wasn't going for the Naxxramas-equipped clothies.. I was looking for the blue-wearing guys when I was wearing the best combination of tiers for proper Mutilate damage. Although, I rarely if ever used a Vanish to accomplish my goal and I don't think I ever had to use a thistle tea. I've stunlocked cloth and leather wearers before, but this was really buffed because of Mutilate's higher damage and larger combo point return. But... and this is the big but... you still needed a good crit to do it. Unfortunately, once I hit 70 on my rogue, I never got better gear, so my stats aren't that great, so I highly doubt I could do this anymore. It definitely requires some decently chosen gear to do and the right target.
Usually the reason you end up getting stunlocked though is the lack of a lot of health. Even my rogue was susceptible to it before because I had low health for PVP (about 4k).
CKent, I did get a failed to dispel message on a mob in Hellfire only 4-5 days ago. It was one of the orc shaman near the Temple of Telhamat. I was so perplexed as to why I was still taking damage, I looked and it said it failed.
Usually the reason you end up getting stunlocked though is the lack of a lot of health. Even my rogue was susceptible to it before because I had low health for PVP (about 4k).
CKent, I did get a failed to dispel message on a mob in Hellfire only 4-5 days ago. It was one of the orc shaman near the Temple of Telhamat. I was so perplexed as to why I was still taking damage, I looked and it said it failed.
Regardless of what you said that's what a stunlock is. It must be start to finish because the target is standing there spamming whatever his next move is. It only takes a split second.
Maybe that's the big confusion when I say a stunlock is a myth. For it to happen there has to be a big discrepancy in level or a big (purple vs green) discrepancy in gear. Otherwise it's just a nasty opening move...*not* a stunlock.
What to do during that split second? For squishies: Blink, fear, sheep etc. Initiative is gone for the rogue. For tanks? What makes you think you're going to have to do something? A 70 should be 10-12k armor.
You could scratch your nuts for the split second and let the rogue go ahead and keep stunning. He's going to run out of cooldowns and energy before you die. Then you have a warrior versus someone in leather standing toe to toe. Ruh-roh...to bad you burned that vanish trying to keep him stunned. Remember a rogue can do mad damage -or- stun. You can't doo 100% of both.
Aikouka
Lifer
- Nov 27, 2001
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Just to make a note Smilin, you shouldn't include Blink in that list, because all of those others you listed cannot be done while stunned, but as you most likely know, Blink removes you from any stun and displaces you the proper distance (EDIT: Of course as long as nothing's in the way or the infamous tiny raise in land that stops you like bridges or sloped stairs)
What I was just thinking is... we're hearing lots of complaints like "Oh my class can't beat a rogue, but before they were weaksauce"... sure, that's a viable statement to make... but what can you do? The thread's turning into a bunch of rehashed posts of people saying the same thing about what they cannot do anymore ( or what they perceive they cannot, which is what all these arguments are over... whether or not these are valid "cannots" ).... But what is it that you are still able to do?
I know one of the hardest things a WoW player has to face, especially with WoW being a novice friendly game, is that you cannot always win in every situation. I think a lot of players tend to forget this (even myself at times) and complain about everything. You want to know a rogue's logic? If I'm winning, keep going... if I'm losing, run away and wait for a better opportunity. We don't necessarily win all the time, we just have the ability to choose our battles so much better than almost every other class you'll meet. I also know that, since I play every other class, the rogue is one of the classes you hate running into because you rarely ever know that they're around. On a Shammy, if you see a mage coming, you throw down a Grounding Totem (mainly this helps start ticking away at the grounding totem's cooldown if you place it down sooner)... your only defense for a rogue is either a magma totem or guessing and throwing down a earthbind (note that this only works on the throw-down). I have actually used the EB Throw-Down technique to pull rogues out on my Shaman, which I always hated on my rogue.
What I was just thinking is... we're hearing lots of complaints like "Oh my class can't beat a rogue, but before they were weaksauce"... sure, that's a viable statement to make... but what can you do? The thread's turning into a bunch of rehashed posts of people saying the same thing about what they cannot do anymore ( or what they perceive they cannot, which is what all these arguments are over... whether or not these are valid "cannots" ).... But what is it that you are still able to do?
I know one of the hardest things a WoW player has to face, especially with WoW being a novice friendly game, is that you cannot always win in every situation. I think a lot of players tend to forget this (even myself at times) and complain about everything. You want to know a rogue's logic? If I'm winning, keep going... if I'm losing, run away and wait for a better opportunity. We don't necessarily win all the time, we just have the ability to choose our battles so much better than almost every other class you'll meet. I also know that, since I play every other class, the rogue is one of the classes you hate running into because you rarely ever know that they're around. On a Shammy, if you see a mage coming, you throw down a Grounding Totem (mainly this helps start ticking away at the grounding totem's cooldown if you place it down sooner)... your only defense for a rogue is either a magma totem or guessing and throwing down a earthbind (note that this only works on the throw-down). I have actually used the EB Throw-Down technique to pull rogues out on my Shaman, which I always hated on my rogue
.Originally posted by: Smilin
Regardless of what you said that's what a stunlock is. It must be start to finish because the target is standing there spamming whatever his next move is. It only takes a split second.
Maybe that's the big confusion when I say a stunlock is a myth. For it to happen there has to be a big discrepancy in level or a big (purple vs green) discrepancy in gear. Otherwise it's just a nasty opening move...*not* a stunlock.
What to do during that split second? For squishies: Blink, fear, sheep etc. Initiative is gone for the rogue. For tanks? What makes you think you're going to have to do something? A 70 should be 10-12k armor.
Not all warriors are tanks, and most tanks tend not to PvP a whole lot since you're just a free HK for any caster class with a clue(as in, not 3 minute mages hurling trinketed pom-pyros at a warrior with SR up), though they do of course stand up well to classes that deal physical damage.
Not to say a rogue can't kill one, but he'll have to work hard for it, and it's much harder.
8K is pretty decent in DPS gear, on top of that you add +10% damage taken from zerk stance and we're down to about mail level mitigation.
I don't know about lvl 70 priests, but at lvl 60, my priest had more physical mitigation than my warrior, courtesy of shadowform and inner fire.
Oh and stunlock to me is just what it sounds like.
Being locked by stuns, not necessarily getting killed while being stunned for 10 seconds.
That would be getting killed while stunlocked, stunlock-kill I guess
.Funny thing is, when killing a rogue with my warrior, it's not even funny even though I win, because I spent most of the fight looking at "You can't do that while stunned", basically I spent 90% of the fight not playing the game.
jman19
Lifer
- Nov 3, 2000
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Originally posted by: Sunner
Originally posted by: Smilin
Regardless of what you said that's what a stunlock is. It must be start to finish because the target is standing there spamming whatever his next move is. It only takes a split second.
Maybe that's the big confusion when I say a stunlock is a myth. For it to happen there has to be a big discrepancy in level or a big (purple vs green) discrepancy in gear. Otherwise it's just a nasty opening move...*not* a stunlock.
What to do during that split second? For squishies: Blink, fear, sheep etc. Initiative is gone for the rogue. For tanks? What makes you think you're going to have to do something? A 70 should be 10-12k armor.
Not all warriors are tanks, and most tanks tend not to PvP a whole lot since you're just a free HK for any caster class with a clue(as in, not 3 minute mages hurling trinketed pom-pyros at a warrior with SR up), though they do of course stand up well to classes that deal physical damage.
Not to say a rogue can't kill one, but he'll have to work hard for it, and it's much harder.
8K is pretty decent in DPS gear, on top of that you add +10% damage taken from zerk stance and we're down to about mail level mitigation.
I don't know about lvl 70 priests, but at lvl 60, my priest had more physical mitigation than my warrior, courtesy of shadowform and inner fire.
In organized group PvP, warriors can be monsters. Matchups go out the window when you have a druid/paladin standing around healing that warrior every few seconds :|
Oh no question about that, arms warriors are very good in arenas, they're not the invincible killing machines some people make them out to be, but they certainly are extremely strong, especially when paired up with a paladin for BoF loving, and even better when the numbnuts who are complaining keep trying to kill the warrior instead of dealing with the healers
I had a match like that this weekend, two frost mages and some other class, we had that unknown down, so 3vs2 now.
The mages start blasting me instead of the paladin, he heals me, one mage frostnovas me, and what does the other one do? Runs right through me while I'm standing immobilized :roll:
Two lucky crits and an execute later and he was dead.
Originally posted by: Sunner
Oh and stunlock to me is just what it sounds like.
Being locked by stuns, not necessarily getting killed while being stunned for 10 seconds.
That would be getting killed while stunlocked, stunlock-kill I guess
mm, to me that's just a stun.
A stunlock is when you never come out of it. Rogue pops out of nowhere, you can do nothing but curse while you are back to back stunned until you die.
With that in mind does the "stunlock is a myth" make more sense? I'll certainly concede that getting some back to back stuns is quite easy. Common in fact. You're not going to die from it though. (I would hope!)
Originally posted by: Smilin
Originally posted by: Sunner
Oh and stunlock to me is just what it sounds like.
Being locked by stuns, not necessarily getting killed while being stunned for 10 seconds.
That would be getting killed while stunlocked, stunlock-kill I guess
mm, to me that's just a stun.
A stunlock is when you never come out of it. Rogue pops out of nowhere, you can do nothing but curse while you are back to back stunned until you die.
With that in mind does the "stunlock is a myth" make more sense? I'll certainly concede that getting some back to back stuns is quite easy. Common in fact. You're not going to die from it though. (I would hope!)
Yeah then I'll agree.
I tend to just take the words for what they are, a stun = one CS, a stunlock = you standing there like a retard for a slight eternity, a stunlock-kill = a trashed monitor.
Luckily the latter has yet to happen in anything resembling a fair fight
Good thing most rogues suck anyway, got jumped by one on my lock just a few minutes ago.
Had him down with more than 50% of my hp left
QuantumPion
Diamond Member
- Jun 27, 2005
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I can see you are the type of person that resorts to petty quips when you know you already lost an argument but refuse to admit it, so I will dumb it down for you.
You originally said: "Druid epic flight form either better be very expensive or very hard. Druid's never received an epic travel form, I don't know why they're getting this epic flight form."
You seem to think that Druids were denied an epic travel form out of some sort of punishment, and then were unjustly given an epic flight form. Druids were given epic flight form for the same reasons why Paladins and Warlocks were given epic land mounts in the original WoW. I wish we did receive an epic travel form, but the fact that we never did isn't an argument for not getting an epic flying form.
They may complain "well, we need to buy the normal flight training to even buy an epic flight training!"
I'm not sure what you are talking about here, Druids receive the normal flight training for free.
Yeah, guess what... Druids usually skip superior land mounts, but now they have to buy the superior land mount training just to buy the epic land mount training.
I replied to you saying that this was not the case. Druids may put back getting their normal riding skill training a few levels or so if they can't afford it, but no druid skipped the epic land mount training because they just used their travel form, as you suggested. At least not since early 2005, to which there is no comparison to today. Besides, no competent player would complain that they have to come up with 540g by level 68 for their flying form. As you yourself stated later on, money in TBC is trivial to come by.
Not to mention money in BC is quite the joke. So in other words, there's no precedence for druids to be receiving this new form.
5000g is nothing, therefore Druids shouldn't receive an epic flight form? Apply this logic to Paladins and Warlocks before TBC was released and you will see how little sense this makes.
No, you didn't. You stated: "The only reason could be druids complaining that there's no point to their flight form..."
My reply: "Druids never complained about not getting an epic flying form..."
Better luck next time.
QuantumPion
Diamond Member
- Jun 27, 2005
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Aikouka I think I realize now where your confusion comes from. You think that Druid's flight form is the equivalent of their travel form, but this isn't really the case. Druid's travel form, along with Shaman's ghost wolf and hunter's aspect of the cheetah are special because they are abilities that can be used in combat, but only give a maximum of 40% speed increase. They are great for grinding and questing, and traveling before hitting level 40, but they don't allow the person to easily move through mob-infested areas due to their limitations. They are not the same thing as mounts, otherwise druids, shamans and hunters wouldn't need to buy their level 40 mounts, which they always do.
Druid's flight form though is more like an actual mount, in that it requires 225 riding skill and cannot be used in combat. If you think about it that way, Druids getting an epic flight form compared to Paladins and Warlocks getting their epic mounts makes perfect sense. I guess since you aren't that knowledgeable about classes other then rogues you weren't aware of this distinction, but hopefully now that you do you will understand my reasoning.
Druid's flight form though is more like an actual mount, in that it requires 225 riding skill and cannot be used in combat. If you think about it that way, Druids getting an epic flight form compared to Paladins and Warlocks getting their epic mounts makes perfect sense. I guess since you aren't that knowledgeable about classes other then rogues you weren't aware of this distinction, but hopefully now that you do you will understand my reasoning.
You can do it -- but it generally requires multiple cooldowns and/or a fair amount of luck and/or your opponent just standing there and taking it. It's also only remotely feasible if you can catch someone by themselves, as other enemies in the area will not stand there and let you spend 10-15 seconds chipping away at their health. More common would be to take a chunk of life off, then Gouge, move away, and restealth -- then come back and burn them down from 50% or whatever. Of course, you don't have the advantage of surprise the second time, and they can do fun things like chugging a Free Action Potion before you get back (stuns? What stuns?)
I think you more or less sorted out the terminology -- but a 'stunlock' is just a sequence of moves (which might not all be "stuns" per se; often Gouge or Blind is used to buy time) that prevent the opposing player from having any opportunity to take action. When you are able to keep someone stunned/incapacitated from when you start attacking them until they are dead (and assuming they started at 100% health), I've usually seen it called a "100->0 stunlock" or something like that.
Protection-spec Warriors you can stunlock. The DPS ones that sit in Bezerker Stance you really can't, since Berzerker Rage can be activated while you're stunned. You can Blind or Gouge them to get away, but that breaks on damage. Improved Overpower sort of negates Evasion to some extent...
rh71
No Lifer
- Aug 28, 2001
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I'm guessing you guys don't use onebag or equivalent mods. I don't like having separate window bags. I organize my onebag the way I like. If they had poison bags (and I used them), I'd lose out bag slots that can hold other things. It'd be 1 full bag slot out of your 5 allowed.
I have a stack of 20 of each poison and replenish when needed. That's only 4 slots out of 1 bag. How many slots do you guys actually need for poisons ?
rh71
No Lifer
- Aug 28, 2001
- 52,844
- 1,049
- 126
bastards... have you any idea how many times I've literally fallen asleep on my way to 375. Now this.Originally posted by: zodder
The fishing fixes are awesome! Fishing is the most boring thing about WoW. I guess I'll wait to lvl that until the patch.
Great timing. One more thing.. regarding the ice block nerf for mages... I've got nearly 30000 honor kills on a pvp server and not once have I seen a mage ice block twice in a row. I had no clue what this nerf was about until people started discussing it. I really don't know what I'm missing here.
Holy alchemy nerf, they have convinced me to go transmute specializiation (i have the elixir quest up)
Originally posted by: rh71
bastards... have you any idea how many times I've literally fallen asleep on my way to 375. Now this.Originally posted by: zodder
The fishing fixes are awesome! Fishing is the most boring thing about WoW. I guess I'll wait to lvl that until the patch.
One more thing.. regarding the ice block nerf for mages... I've got nearly 30000 honor kills on a pvp server and not once have I seen a mage ice block twice in a row. I had no clue what this nerf was about until people started discussing it. I really don't know what I'm missing here.
go to google video and look search for "nerf spellsteal"
youll understand 2 of the mage changes
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