work/life balance and security in Europe and US

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spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Originally posted by: JS80
Originally posted by: zinfamous
Originally posted by: spidey07
Zinfamous,

You are more than welcome to purchase a more comprehensive plan that meets your needs. THAT's freedom.


you still don't get it, Jr. I'm pretty sure my plan is better than anything you would be offered. read my latest posts.

BTW: Freedom is not having to choose, let alone PAY for medical care. In fact, our system is the antithesis of freedom when it comes to health care. The private insurance companies, who restrict medical professionals towards what kind of care they can provide, who determine where you will be given this care, are not concerned with your freedom.

This isn't about my health plan, it's about the millions in this country who have no care, who have a significantly shorter lifespan, and even those who are covered but are driven into poverty b/c they have no choice of health plan.

Anyhoo, this thread is about jingoistic Americans without any experience outside of the country (read: absolutely no understanding of what their rights or freedoms mean, let alone grounds for comparing the US system to any other) blasting the OP after bltatantly misreading his intent. get back on it ;)

It's almost laughable but more scary at how you see the US medical system.

What's even more scary is these people actually live here and can vote. Now THAT's scary.

Entitlement mentatliy for the farkin' loss.

What's even more bothersome is they bitch and moan about their best in the world healthcare and assume it should be provided for nothing. They're like a weed on society, they take and take and take and give nothing back.

I for one am sick and tired of these freaks stealing my money. Want good healthcare, then pay for it you damn leach.

If you die because of a lack of insurance then that is just natural order weeding out the bottom of the barrel. Stupid is as stupid does they say.
 

jackace

Golden Member
Oct 6, 2004
1,307
0
0
Problem is many people work full-time jobs for VERY large companies. They make $10/hour or less and can't afford to pay the $50-$100 a month the company charges them to be part of the company health insurance plan.

Edit- the only option for those people is to get government assistance for healthcare, daycare, and maybe even food stamps. Just so they can feed their children. That's the problem we have in our society. Those hard working individuals that for one reason or another are stuck in a low paying job can't even afford the basic living expenses in this country while working a full-time job for a fortune 500 company.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Originally posted by: jackace
Problem is many people work full-time jobs for VERY large companies. They make $10/hour or less and can't afford to pay the $50-$100 a month the company charges them to be part of the company health insurance plan.

Edit- the only option for those people is to get government assistance for healthcare, daycare, and maybe even food stamps. Just so they can feed their children. That's the problem we have in our society. Those hard working individuals that for one reason or another are stuck in a low paying job can't even afford the basic living expenses in this country while working a full-time job for a fortune 500 company.

So you're a communist then?

That one reason or another is a lack of motivation. Anybody with a high school education can make 70K+ USD per year by working in a factory.

Don't have those jobs near you? Then freaking move.

I get so ticked at lazy people it isn't funny.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,125
30,076
146
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: vi_edit
Originally posted by: fiksi
Originally posted by: CPA
Originally posted by: fiksi
Originally posted by: MrDudeMan
fiksi, you are an idiot. It's sad that you can't see past your own ignorance.

So i am an idiot for giving something to think? I am an idiot for giving
you real statistical data, i am an idiot who has traveled around teh world and Europe,
i am an idiot who was always in top of class?

I am an idiot because i work and get paid well, with all benefits?

Well, if it is so, then be it. Your fellow Americans here don't think that way. Perhaps they are all idiots for coming in Europe?

You didn't give any statistical data, only conjecture based on your "experiences".

BTW, how do you account for the numerous Europeans who have moved to the US? Many more, I would think than Americans who have moved to Europe?


What about minimum wages before? I gave data, which shows what minimum wage is in US, and what purchasing power it gives.


Well, most Europeans who moved to states seem to be from eastern european countries, and because almost all ppl know english- they went to states. Also,
i didn't say that doctor or top engineer doesn't have higher salary in US, he DOES.

In that respect, Europe is still lagging somewhat.

http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2006.htm

Less than 500,000 people are paid minimum wage. Over half of them are college aged kids or younger. It's statisically insignificiant because it's not intended to be a living wage. It's supplemental income.

There are another 1.3 million that make less than minimum wage but those are service oriented with tip compensation that isn't factored into the hourly rate. Many of those workers are making far more than the minimum once that is factored in. And my point still stands that it was never intended to be a living wage.

Let's gain some perspective here. Minimum wage here is about $8/hr. That works out to roughly 16k a year. That's about 27% of the country. 42% of Americans earn under 25k a year, which is still drastically below poverty level. 70% earn less than 50k a year, which is where we enter good middle-income living. Don't sugar coat things...most Americans earn next to nothing.


While I agree with you, I thought minimum wage for a family of four, one person working and earning income, was "calculated" at 19.5k. Although I think it's an arbitrary and ridiculous calculation...isn't it "official?"
 

jackace

Golden Member
Oct 6, 2004
1,307
0
0
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: jackace
Problem is many people work full-time jobs for VERY large companies. They make $10/hour or less and can't afford to pay the $50-$100 a month the company charges them to be part of the company health insurance plan.

Edit- the only option for those people is to get government assistance for healthcare, daycare, and maybe even food stamps. Just so they can feed their children. That's the problem we have in our society. Those hard working individuals that for one reason or another are stuck in a low paying job can't even afford the basic living expenses in this country while working a full-time job for a fortune 500 company.

So you're a communist then?

That one reason or another is a lack of motivation. Anybody with a high school education can make 70K+ USD per year by working in a factory.

Don't have those jobs near you? Then freaking move.

I get so ticked at lazy people it isn't funny.

HAHAHAHA 70k in a factory. what country are you living in?

I worked in a large food company factory (Nestle) and the majority of the workers there made less then $12. The only people making more then $15 were supervisors. Nestle is one of (if not) the largest food supplier in the WORLD

Edti- No I'm not communist at all. I believe if a company is going to hire an employee they should be required to pay that employee enough money to live in this country. The corporations operating in this country are FORCING our government (and ultimately the tax payers) to subsidize them by FORCING employees to turn to the government for assistance. Our government needs to turn right around and force these corporations to pay "living" wages to their employees.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,125
30,076
146
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: JS80
Originally posted by: zinfamous
Originally posted by: spidey07
Zinfamous,

You are more than welcome to purchase a more comprehensive plan that meets your needs. THAT's freedom.


you still don't get it, Jr. I'm pretty sure my plan is better than anything you would be offered. read my latest posts.

BTW: Freedom is not having to choose, let alone PAY for medical care. In fact, our system is the antithesis of freedom when it comes to health care. The private insurance companies, who restrict medical professionals towards what kind of care they can provide, who determine where you will be given this care, are not concerned with your freedom.

This isn't about my health plan, it's about the millions in this country who have no care, who have a significantly shorter lifespan, and even those who are covered but are driven into poverty b/c they have no choice of health plan.

Anyhoo, this thread is about jingoistic Americans without any experience outside of the country (read: absolutely no understanding of what their rights or freedoms mean, let alone grounds for comparing the US system to any other) blasting the OP after bltatantly misreading his intent. get back on it ;)

It's almost laughable but more scary at how you see the US medical system.

What's even more scary is these people actually live here and can vote. Now THAT's scary.

Entitlement mentatliy for the farkin' loss.

What's even more bothersome is they bitch and moan about their best in the world healthcare and assume it should be provided for nothing. They're like a weed on society, they take and take and take and give nothing back.

I for one am sick and tired of these freaks stealing my money. Want good healthcare, then pay for it you damn leach.

If you die because of a lack of insurance then that is just natural order weeding out the bottom of the barrel. Stupid is as stupid does they say.


I'm not talking about entlitlement. I hate entitlement. put words in my mouth, misinterpret and fail to understand my points all you want, it still doesn't change the fact that you're a blathering moron :p
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,125
30,076
146
Originally posted by: jackace
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: jackace
Problem is many people work full-time jobs for VERY large companies. They make $10/hour or less and can't afford to pay the $50-$100 a month the company charges them to be part of the company health insurance plan.

Edit- the only option for those people is to get government assistance for healthcare, daycare, and maybe even food stamps. Just so they can feed their children. That's the problem we have in our society. Those hard working individuals that for one reason or another are stuck in a low paying job can't even afford the basic living expenses in this country while working a full-time job for a fortune 500 company.

So you're a communist then?

That one reason or another is a lack of motivation. Anybody with a high school education can make 70K+ USD per year by working in a factory.

Don't have those jobs near you? Then freaking move.

I get so ticked at lazy people it isn't funny.

HAHAHAHA 70k in a factory. what country are you living in?

I worked a large food company factory (Nestle) and the majority of the workers there made less then $12. The only people making more then $15 were supervisors. Nestle is one of (if not) the large largest food supplier in the WORLD


spidey lives in his parents' basement and bases his arguments on dusty 1940's US propaganda comicbooks. He has proven his naivete throught this thread. he never posts statistics to back the numbers that he composes amidst the euphoric ether binges with which he seems to indulge (70k in a factory with highschool education? WOW....uh...hahahahahha)

It would make me laugh, if I thought he were incapable of voting.

PS: Nestle: headquartered just outside of Lausanne, Switzerland....beautiful location on the banks of lake Leman. They know what they're doing... ;)
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: zinfamous
Originally posted by: JS80
Originally posted by: zinfamous
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: zinfamous


argh. that's not my point at all. healthcare is a universal human right, no different than adequate drinking water, education, etc. There is currently $435 billion of taxpayer money that has been thrown into the pooper over an illegitimate war that 72% of Americans do not support.

...this indeed sounds like a nice revenue source to provide healthcare. Do you disagree?

i disagree that anyone provides "healthcare." and if it was provided it'd certainly be a failure.

and there is more money in the overhead of the current system than in the iraq occupation.


you still haven't shown how you can overcome the scarcity of the good.


well, if there's plenty in the overhead, then the Iraq money could go into building new hospitals and clinics, hiring more professionals. The resources are certainly there...

You can build all the hospitals you want but you can't exactly build doctors and nurses :roll:

by resources, I don't just mean money to go into it. I should have said "people." I apologize for my vaguery, and lack of details when I get into a posting storm (I try to make them brief, really I do...:p)

We have the best medical training programs in the world. We have the best hospitals in the world. There are plenty of people in this country, as well as the rest of the world, that would be willing to train and work here more than anywhere else, IF we provided a friendly environment to practice medicine (which the US does not do--ask a doctor, I have plenty of them in my family btw...and will be going into the medical profession myself....), as well as the necessary infrastructure.

This is what has happened in Bush's war against stem cells. The majority of our best talent, in this--the most promising field of medical research--has fled to Ireland, Switzerland, Singapore, et al. We have become unfriendly towards medicine...how should we expect our "wonderful" healthcare system to survive this great "F-you!" to the leading medical base? (God Bless Arny though, for seeing the light.... :beer:)

should medicine be determined by Pat Robertson? That's what the Admins want, and you know it.

(This (ES cells) is a Bush thing--healthcare in general has been broke for many, many years. certainly not the worst, far from the best, but plenty of room for improvement. In our system profit comes first--and not medicine. Those who think otherwise (you) are clearly naive. I've never said that medical professionals think this way, but the malpractice-driven insurance companies do...)

Direction of resources is not the problem. There is plenty of demand for medicine through free markets - we don't need government pushing for more. The problem is with the SUPPLY of medicine - which in that industry is HUMAN CAPITAL. Who controls the supply of doctors? The AMA. They hold a monopoly on the number of doctors by controlling the number of medical schools and holding impossible standards to enter into medicine.

They have no incentive to change this because they want to keep prices HIGH by controlling the supply AND it gives them a sense of power - which all doctors have (god complex). They would never give this up.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,125
30,076
146
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: jackace
Problem is many people work full-time jobs for VERY large companies. They make $10/hour or less and can't afford to pay the $50-$100 a month the company charges them to be part of the company health insurance plan.

Edit- the only option for those people is to get government assistance for healthcare, daycare, and maybe even food stamps. Just so they can feed their children. That's the problem we have in our society. Those hard working individuals that for one reason or another are stuck in a low paying job can't even afford the basic living expenses in this country while working a full-time job for a fortune 500 company.

So you're a communist then?

That one reason or another is a lack of motivation. Anybody with a high school education can make 70K+ USD per year by working in a factory.

Don't have those jobs near you? Then freaking move.

I get so ticked at lazy people it isn't funny.


hmmm, so what do you do with your life Spidey? how do you earn your income, and what is the wonderful all-inclusive healthcare that you own?
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: JS80
Originally posted by: zinfamous
Originally posted by: spidey07
Zinfamous,

You are more than welcome to purchase a more comprehensive plan that meets your needs. THAT's freedom.


you still don't get it, Jr. I'm pretty sure my plan is better than anything you would be offered. read my latest posts.

BTW: Freedom is not having to choose, let alone PAY for medical care. In fact, our system is the antithesis of freedom when it comes to health care. The private insurance companies, who restrict medical professionals towards what kind of care they can provide, who determine where you will be given this care, are not concerned with your freedom.

This isn't about my health plan, it's about the millions in this country who have no care, who have a significantly shorter lifespan, and even those who are covered but are driven into poverty b/c they have no choice of health plan.

Anyhoo, this thread is about jingoistic Americans without any experience outside of the country (read: absolutely no understanding of what their rights or freedoms mean, let alone grounds for comparing the US system to any other) blasting the OP after bltatantly misreading his intent. get back on it ;)

It's almost laughable but more scary at how you see the US medical system.

What's even more scary is these people actually live here and can vote. Now THAT's scary.

Entitlement mentatliy for the farkin' loss.

What's even more bothersome is they bitch and moan about their best in the world healthcare and assume it should be provided for nothing. They're like a weed on society, they take and take and take and give nothing back.

I for one am sick and tired of these freaks stealing my money. Want good healthcare, then pay for it you damn leach.

If you die because of a lack of insurance then that is just natural order weeding out the bottom of the barrel. Stupid is as stupid does they say.

It's ironic that we have the best practical medical system in the world (albeit very broken and still pseudo socialist, but compared to the euros it's the best) but people want to change to a worse one that just "looks and sounds" the best.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: jackace
Problem is many people work full-time jobs for VERY large companies. They make $10/hour or less and can't afford to pay the $50-$100 a month the company charges them to be part of the company health insurance plan.

Edit- the only option for those people is to get government assistance for healthcare, daycare, and maybe even food stamps. Just so they can feed their children. That's the problem we have in our society. Those hard working individuals that for one reason or another are stuck in a low paying job can't even afford the basic living expenses in this country while working a full-time job for a fortune 500 company.

So why are these douchebags making only $10/hour? I made $10/hr when I was 16. These people make little because of poor choices they made in life.

In America, over the long run, you choose your own destiny.
 

jackace

Golden Member
Oct 6, 2004
1,307
0
0
The problem is our Government has allowed corporate America to bully them. Because of this all tax payers are picking up the tab so these corporations can pay "poverty" wages to the majority of their employees meanwhile they make record profits and the CEO and other execs take home multi-million dollar bonuses.

OUR GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO GET A BACKBONE AND STAND UP TO CORPORATE AMERICA. Europe has done it and yes it hurts at first, but it will lead to a much better future for everyone involved.
 

jackace

Golden Member
Oct 6, 2004
1,307
0
0
Originally posted by: JS80
Originally posted by: jackace
Problem is many people work full-time jobs for VERY large companies. They make $10/hour or less and can't afford to pay the $50-$100 a month the company charges them to be part of the company health insurance plan.

Edit- the only option for those people is to get government assistance for healthcare, daycare, and maybe even food stamps. Just so they can feed their children. That's the problem we have in our society. Those hard working individuals that for one reason or another are stuck in a low paying job can't even afford the basic living expenses in this country while working a full-time job for a fortune 500 company.

So why are these douchebags making only $10/hour? I made $10/hr when I was 16. These people make little because of poor choices they made in life.

In America, over the long run, you choose your own destiny.

It's supply and demand my friend. If the government will allow companies to offer such low paying jobs eventually someone will have to take the job or go without. Why do you think so many people worked for "poverty" wages at the turn of the century (20th century)? Same thing that happened then is happening now. The government is allowing it to happen and eventually the wages just stop increasing, but cost of living keeps going up. Eventually people are making sh!tty wages.

Edit- not to mention look up the statistics on jobs. If your assumption is right then roughly 20-25% of Americans have made poor choices, and another ~15-20% have not made choices that are much better. I have a hard time believing 35-45% of Americans have just "made bad choices" there is much more to it then that.

Hell I live in Boise Idaho. I have seen jobs listed here that require a Bachelors degree and 2 years experience and the pay is $1300 a month.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Originally posted by: zinfamous
spidey lives in his parents' basement and bases his arguments on dusty 1940's US propaganda comicbooks. He has proven his naivete throught this thread. he never posts statistics to back the numbers that he composes amidst the euphoric ether binges with which he seems to indulge (70k in a factory with highschool education? WOW....uh...hahahahahha)

It would make me laugh, if I thought he were incapable of voting.

PS: Nestle: headquartered just outside of Lausanne, Switzerland....beautiful location on the banks of lake Leman. They know what they're doing... ;)

While I shouldn't have to disprove the parent's basement comment I have consulted the manufacturing/healthcare industry for the last 15 years.

I just congratulated a worker on gaining his employment today, he makes 27 bucks an hour and with overtime he'll clear 70-80k. He's 22, he is an assembly worker and has a good attitude. He also has an incredible health care plan at no cost to him for single coverage. He's also taken my advice and elected to contribute a meager few bucks per month for increased long-term care.

I don't need to post statistics, I post my personal experience.

Zinfamous, if you need more information on how to get the healthcare plan I talked about please call any of the big providers. Before the hmo/ppo BS insurance was a straight 80/20 plan and that's what you should look for in good health insurance. If you aren't offered this via your work then opt out of their plan and get your own. It's all tax free.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,125
30,076
146
Originally posted by: JS80
Originally posted by: zinfamous
Originally posted by: JS80
Originally posted by: zinfamous
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: zinfamous


argh. that's not my point at all. healthcare is a universal human right, no different than adequate drinking water, education, etc. There is currently $435 billion of taxpayer money that has been thrown into the pooper over an illegitimate war that 72% of Americans do not support.

...this indeed sounds like a nice revenue source to provide healthcare. Do you disagree?

i disagree that anyone provides "healthcare." and if it was provided it'd certainly be a failure.

and there is more money in the overhead of the current system than in the iraq occupation.


you still haven't shown how you can overcome the scarcity of the good.


well, if there's plenty in the overhead, then the Iraq money could go into building new hospitals and clinics, hiring more professionals. The resources are certainly there...

You can build all the hospitals you want but you can't exactly build doctors and nurses :roll:

by resources, I don't just mean money to go into it. I should have said "people." I apologize for my vaguery, and lack of details when I get into a posting storm (I try to make them brief, really I do...:p)

We have the best medical training programs in the world. We have the best hospitals in the world. There are plenty of people in this country, as well as the rest of the world, that would be willing to train and work here more than anywhere else, IF we provided a friendly environment to practice medicine (which the US does not do--ask a doctor, I have plenty of them in my family btw...and will be going into the medical profession myself....), as well as the necessary infrastructure.

This is what has happened in Bush's war against stem cells. The majority of our best talent, in this--the most promising field of medical research--has fled to Ireland, Switzerland, Singapore, et al. We have become unfriendly towards medicine...how should we expect our "wonderful" healthcare system to survive this great "F-you!" to the leading medical base? (God Bless Arny though, for seeing the light.... :beer:)

should medicine be determined by Pat Robertson? That's what the Admins want, and you know it.

(This (ES cells) is a Bush thing--healthcare in general has been broke for many, many years. certainly not the worst, far from the best, but plenty of room for improvement. In our system profit comes first--and not medicine. Those who think otherwise (you) are clearly naive. I've never said that medical professionals think this way, but the malpractice-driven insurance companies do...)

Direction of resources is not the problem. There is plenty of demand for medicine through free markets - we don't need government pushing for more. The problem is with the SUPPLY of medicine - which in that industry is HUMAN CAPITAL. Who controls the supply of doctors? The AMA. They hold a monopoly on the number of doctors by controlling the number of medical schools and holding impossible standards to enter into medicine.

They have no incentive to change this because they want to keep prices HIGH by controlling the supply AND it gives them a sense of power - which all doctors have (god complex). They would never give this up.

now THAT is naivete about the system clear and simple. all doctors have a god complex? is your reality based on prime-time drama and movies starring Alec Baldwin?
As I mentioned in the post you quoted, I have plenty of family who are doctors and work in the medical industry. I have friends, co-workers, bosses, aquantainces, all who are medical professionals. MDs, PhDs what have you....

Not a GOD DAMN ONE exhibits this paranoid delusion that you seem to swim on. In fact, they complain on a near-daily basis about their inability to practice medicine within our private income-driven system. Where do you get off generalizing an entire class of people that have increased your own lifespan by 40 years over the last 2 centuries? Are you really, honestly trying to inform me how "my class" of people act, and what motivates them?

GFY. it's time to update your MySpace page.

If you choose to ignore logic, what is the point in arguing with you?
 
May 16, 2000
13,522
0
0
Originally posted by: jackace
Problem is many people work full-time jobs for VERY large companies. They make $10/hour or less and can't afford to pay the $50-$100 a month the company charges them to be part of the company health insurance plan.

Edit- the only option for those people is to get government assistance for healthcare, daycare, and maybe even food stamps. Just so they can feed their children. That's the problem we have in our society. Those hard working individuals that for one reason or another are stuck in a low paying job can't even afford the basic living expenses in this country while working a full-time job for a fortune 500 company.

Try $300-600 a month for the health insurance. I pay 25% of my gross monthly wage for pretty bad coverage for my daughter and I.
 

jackace

Golden Member
Oct 6, 2004
1,307
0
0
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: zinfamous
spidey lives in his parents' basement and bases his arguments on dusty 1940's US propaganda comicbooks. He has proven his naivete throught this thread. he never posts statistics to back the numbers that he composes amidst the euphoric ether binges with which he seems to indulge (70k in a factory with highschool education? WOW....uh...hahahahahha)

It would make me laugh, if I thought he were incapable of voting.

PS: Nestle: headquartered just outside of Lausanne, Switzerland....beautiful location on the banks of lake Leman. They know what they're doing... ;)

While I shouldn't have to disprove the parent's basement comment I have consulted the manufacturing/healthcare industry for the last 15 years.

I just congratulated a worker on gaining his employment today, he makes 27 bucks an hour and with overtime he'll clear 70-80k. He's 22, he is an assembly worker and has a good attitude. He also has an incredible health care plan at no cost to him for single coverage. He's also taken my advice and elected to contribute a meager few bucks per month for increased long-term care.

I don't need to post statistics, I post my personal experience.

Zinfamous, if you need more information on how to get the healthcare plan I talked about please call any of the big providers. Before the hmo/ppo BS insurance was a straight 80/20 plan and that's what you should look for in good health insurance. If you aren't offered this via your work then opt out of their plan and get your own. It's all tax free.

Only so many people can work in that type of factory situation. Eventually those jobs are filled and people are forced to take other jobs. I grew up in an agricultural area and the factories there pay $9-$15 hour for general labor. Which accounts for about 65% of all employees in the factory. The rest are Skilled labors (mechanics mainly), supervisors, and management.
 

jackace

Golden Member
Oct 6, 2004
1,307
0
0
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: jackace
Problem is many people work full-time jobs for VERY large companies. They make $10/hour or less and can't afford to pay the $50-$100 a month the company charges them to be part of the company health insurance plan.

Edit- the only option for those people is to get government assistance for healthcare, daycare, and maybe even food stamps. Just so they can feed their children. That's the problem we have in our society. Those hard working individuals that for one reason or another are stuck in a low paying job can't even afford the basic living expenses in this country while working a full-time job for a fortune 500 company.

Try $300-600 a month for the health insurance. I pay 25% of my gross monthly wage for pretty bad coverage for my daughter and I.

I was talking about for only the employee. That is the benefits package I was given when I worked at DirecTV. $9/hour with $9 a week to cover insurance. I could hav opted for the more expensive plan but it would have been ~$20 a week out of my pay check.
 
May 16, 2000
13,522
0
0
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: jackace
Problem is many people work full-time jobs for VERY large companies. They make $10/hour or less and can't afford to pay the $50-$100 a month the company charges them to be part of the company health insurance plan.

Edit- the only option for those people is to get government assistance for healthcare, daycare, and maybe even food stamps. Just so they can feed their children. That's the problem we have in our society. Those hard working individuals that for one reason or another are stuck in a low paying job can't even afford the basic living expenses in this country while working a full-time job for a fortune 500 company.

So you're a communist then?

That one reason or another is a lack of motivation. Anybody with a high school education can make 70K+ USD per year by working in a factory.

Don't have those jobs near you? Then freaking move.

I get so ticked at lazy people it isn't funny.

BULL FVCKING SH!T!!! People like you are the reason no problems get solved in this country.

In our economic system not everyone can have a good paying job. By design only a small percentage of people can make any real money, everyone else HAS to earn less. There is no other way it can be. Add to that outsourcing, limited growth, and other factors reducing the number of existing jobs and you're left with the inescapable fact that it's IMPOSSIBLE for most people in America to earn much money.

I grew up in a factory/mill town. They've all closed now due to advances in technology, changes in consumer desire, moves to other nations, and numerous other reasons. All we have now are minimum wage service industry jobs. This is NOT unique to my area - it's happening all over the country. Try reading some information about the switching of America from manufacturing/industry to service industry.

Even if those factories were still here, most workers maxed out at about $20-30/hr, which is a maximum of 60k per year...WELL under the easy 70k you pulled out of your ass.

EDIT: My apologies for that explosion. Touched a raw nerve during a semi-rough week and I let it get to me. I have also issued an apology thru PM. I think I'm going to bed now.
 

FallenHero

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2006
5,659
0
0
Hrmm...*looks at France's current state of employment affairs*

Nope, not perfect over there either.
 

jackace

Golden Member
Oct 6, 2004
1,307
0
0
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: zinfamous
spidey lives in his parents' basement and bases his arguments on dusty 1940's US propaganda comicbooks. He has proven his naivete throught this thread. he never posts statistics to back the numbers that he composes amidst the euphoric ether binges with which he seems to indulge (70k in a factory with highschool education? WOW....uh...hahahahahha)

It would make me laugh, if I thought he were incapable of voting.

PS: Nestle: headquartered just outside of Lausanne, Switzerland....beautiful location on the banks of lake Leman. They know what they're doing... ;)

While I shouldn't have to disprove the parent's basement comment I have consulted the manufacturing/healthcare industry for the last 15 years.

I just congratulated a worker on gaining his employment today, he makes 27 bucks an hour and with overtime he'll clear 70-80k. He's 22, he is an assembly worker and has a good attitude. He also has an incredible health care plan at no cost to him for single coverage. He's also taken my advice and elected to contribute a meager few bucks per month for increased long-term care.

I don't need to post statistics, I post my personal experience.

Zinfamous, if you need more information on how to get the healthcare plan I talked about please call any of the big providers. Before the hmo/ppo BS insurance was a straight 80/20 plan and that's what you should look for in good health insurance. If you aren't offered this via your work then opt out of their plan and get your own. It's all tax free.

Actually this is the EXACT reason you need to look at statistics. Your personal experience is not even close to what is actually happening in America.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
Lets not forget that Europe creates all these social programs at the expense of their own security, well not really because the U.S. provides them their security. Without a U.S. deterrent, Russia could steamroll through Europe, just as they would have 50yrs ago if we werent standing guard over your continent. If the U.S. decided to pack up and go home, you would be completely at the whim of your eastern neighbors, because living under the skirt of the U.S. for so long has made you impotent to external threats. You think you are better than us because you can sit back and enjoy the benefits of having another country at your becking call to look after you. We cant afford these grand social programs, because we are busy trying to keep order in a world European colonial powers royally fucked up. Europe hates us because they need us.

Has it occurred to you that maybe we should worry about our citizens instead of subsidizing the rest of the world's defense, drug research, manufacturing, etc. Have you asked your average American if they would rather their money be spent defending French from the Russians or taking care of Americans' needs? Other countries take care of their people first and foremost. We ignore our own problems and take care of other countries' problems, real or imagined.
 

Arkitech

Diamond Member
Apr 13, 2000
8,356
3
76
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: jackace
Problem is many people work full-time jobs for VERY large companies. They make $10/hour or less and can't afford to pay the $50-$100 a month the company charges them to be part of the company health insurance plan.

Edit- the only option for those people is to get government assistance for healthcare, daycare, and maybe even food stamps. Just so they can feed their children. That's the problem we have in our society. Those hard working individuals that for one reason or another are stuck in a low paying job can't even afford the basic living expenses in this country while working a full-time job for a fortune 500 company.

So you're a communist then?

That one reason or another is a lack of motivation. Anybody with a high school education can make 70K+ USD per year by working in a factory.

Don't have those jobs near you? Then freaking move.

I get so ticked at lazy people it isn't funny.

Bull ***** sh!t you ignorant pr1ck. BULL FVCKING SH!T!!! People like you are the reason no problems get solved in this country.

In our economic system not everyone can have a good paying job. By design only a small percentage of people can make any real money, everyone else HAS to earn less. There is no other way it can be. Add to that outsourcing, limited growth, and other factors reducing the number of existing jobs and you're left with the inescapable fact that it's IMPOSSIBLE for most people in America to earn much money.

I grew up in a factory/mill town. They've all closed now due to advances in technology, changes in consumer desire, moves to other nations, and numerous other reasons. All we have now are minimum wage service industry jobs. This is NOT unique to my area - it's happening all over the country. Try reading some information about the switching of America from manufacturing/industry to service industry.

Even if those factories were still here, most workers maxed out at about $20-30/hr, which is a maximum of 60k per year...WELL under the easy 70k you pulled out of your ignorant bvllsh!tting ass.

In short you don't know a ***** thing and are actually OFFENSIVE in your lunacy and ignorance. Go fvck yourself and die so that those of us with SOME intelligence can try and fix the problems of our society.

Ignorant bastard son of a bitch.

FVCK OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


*applauds PrinceOfWands*

that's a well written rant if I ever read one. It incenses me when I hear other people spouting ridiculous claims which are obviously not backed by any real factual information. I can't believe that guy even attempted to suggest that the average american can make 70k a year with a high school diploma working a factory job. I've worked in fortune 500 companies for the past 19 years (every since high school) and I've met many college and university educated people who were'nt earning 70k a year and belive me it was'nt due to a lack of effort. In fact I work with a very bright Unix engineer right now on my current job, he has a masters degree and a dedicated work ethic and he only earns about 50-60k. If more people would step off of their high moral horses and realize that perhaps america is not the utopia that they think it is then maybe some real effort can be put towards finding real solutions for people in need instead of arrogant comments that only elicit negative reactions.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Originally posted by: jackace
Actually this is the EXACT reason you need to look at statistics. Your personal experience is not even close to what is actually happening in America.

I don't think so.

Personal experience says if you want to make it in america all it takes is some education and some motivation. My best friend is a millionaire who I thought wouldn't amount to anything when we were in our early 20s, but he worked. Lazy doesn't get you anywhere and I don't know a statistic for lazy.

I get the opportunity to travel the world and speak with locals and hear other success stories. If you want it you can get it in america. But you have to work and not blame others for your problems.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,125
30,076
146
Originally posted by: jackace
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: zinfamous
spidey lives in his parents' basement and bases his arguments on dusty 1940's US propaganda comicbooks. He has proven his naivete throught this thread. he never posts statistics to back the numbers that he composes amidst the euphoric ether binges with which he seems to indulge (70k in a factory with highschool education? WOW....uh...hahahahahha)

It would make me laugh, if I thought he were incapable of voting.

PS: Nestle: headquartered just outside of Lausanne, Switzerland....beautiful location on the banks of lake Leman. They know what they're doing... ;)

While I shouldn't have to disprove the parent's basement comment I have consulted the manufacturing/healthcare industry for the last 15 years.

I just congratulated a worker on gaining his employment today, he makes 27 bucks an hour and with overtime he'll clear 70-80k. He's 22, he is an assembly worker and has a good attitude. He also has an incredible health care plan at no cost to him for single coverage. He's also taken my advice and elected to contribute a meager few bucks per month for increased long-term care.

I don't need to post statistics, I post my personal experience.

Zinfamous, if you need more information on how to get the healthcare plan I talked about please call any of the big providers. Before the hmo/ppo BS insurance was a straight 80/20 plan and that's what you should look for in good health insurance. If you aren't offered this via your work then opt out of their plan and get your own. It's all tax free.

Actually this is the EXACT reason you need to look at statistics. Your personal experience is not even close to what is actually happening in America.


ignorance is bliss, eh? esp when you can pull in 200k + a year, CONSULTING on some BS business degree for some industry that you can never possibly hope to comprehend.

What do you know about medicine, Spidey? How's your Biochemistry, your organic, your molecular bio? You read up on the genomics undustry, understand how and why something so "simple" as PCR actually works?

how many people have you put into 70k+/year factory jobs? more important, how many people did you FIRE to give that one person their salaries? You and all the other Bobs can go fuck yourselves.