Windows Genuine Advantage Notification Starts This Week

[Nothinman]

My mistake, I did not mean genuine hardware, I DID mean software that was a typo. I don't think that needed to be pointed out I'm sure most could have gathered that's what I meant given the information contained in the first post. A feeble attempt at demeaning others to, prove what exactly, that you can point out the obvious? Something that has plagued these boards for a long time.

You typed hardware and while I thought it was odd, I'm sure there's a lot of conspiracy theorists out there that are just waiting for MS to start a Genuine Hardware program for OEMs if there's not one already. I wasn't attempting to demean you at all, although if you want I can start pointing out things like your misuse of the word 'to' when you really meant to use 'too'.

As a customer I do not wish to pay for hassles.

And as a customer you can vote with your money and go somewhere else. MS will never get the hint if people keep using their software despite all of the inconveniences they keep adding.

Second, not using their software is not an option, I don't believe that I really have to go into this since it has been an exhausted topic in these forums for ages. The fact is that Microsoft is basically a monopoly, there is no other operating systems out there that Windows really competes with, Windows is widely used whereas UNIX-based systems are not, that's a simple fact.

Tell that to all of the Mac users out there, I'm sure they'd be happy to point you to alternatives. Yes, if you want to play every game released on your PC then you'll have to use Windows but that's about it. Anything else can be done just as easily on OS X or Linux. And with WINE you can even play a lot of those games on Linux, albeit with varying levels of success.

This is typical Microsoft, because a lot of people pirate their product they introduce a system to deal with these people without really considering the futility of their imposed solution.

It's not futile at all, they're not aiming for the hardcore crackers yet. As with WPA this is just designed to cut down on the people who would rather fork over the money than worry about cracking their system and having it still work. If they really wanted to cut down on the hardcore people they'd go after 3rd world countries where the Windows piracy rate is like 100x the number of people who buy the software.

Like Nothinman said, if you don't like it, don't use their software. Well this would be great, if there were another operating system that fulfilled ALL my requirements, one of which would be using office related programs that have only been developed for Windows.

If you really need MS Office you can use it on Linux via Crossover Office you really want. Or last I checked MS Office was released for OS X so you could go that route.

 

[RebateMonger]

Originally posted by: Nothinman
If you really need MS Office you can use it on Linux via Crossover Office you really want. Or last I checked MS Office was released for OS X so you could go that route.

I tried out Openoffice 2.0 a few months ago, and it looked great. It can read and write to most MS Office file formats, and the "PowerPoint" clone was virtually indistinguishable from using the "real" PowerPoint. I gave a PowerPoint slide presentation on MS Small Business Server, using Openoffice 2.0 as the presentation tool, and nobody was the wiser.

 

[Nothinman]

I tried out Openoffice 2.0 a few months ago, and it looked great. It can read and write to most MS Office file formats, and the "PowerPoint" clone was virtually indistinguishable from using the "real" PowerPoint. I gave a PowerPoint slide presentation on MS Small Business Server, using Openoffice 2.0 as the presentation tool, and nobody was the wiser.

That's good to hear, my office work is extremely light and MS Office is on my work machine so I don't have any real reason to try out O. I do have AbiWord and Gnumeric installed on my Linux machines, but I can't even remember the last time that I needed to use them.

 

[Seeruk]

Originally posted by: nweaver

Originally posted by: Seeruk

2. I can have 10 people each with their own console and their own keyboard and mice on the same machine in Linux. I cannot do this in WinXP.

Yes You can

8. I can choose to use more than one filesystem for a Linux installation (/boot is ext2, / is reiserfs, /home is ext3, etc). WinXP only allows either NTFS OR FAT32, not both.

Flat out wrong

Nice try but no cigar

I would like to see the first thing backed up, especially considering there is no "thin client" windows (you have to have a host OS to do this....linux works great to boot and load a termina server session on a thin client, btw)

and while the second statement is incorrect (you CAN have NTFS and Fat32 in the same install) one point would be that with Linux you have a much larger choice of open standard file systems. XP=2 (and no s/w raid on install for XP that I know of)
Linux=5+, s/w raid, lvm, etc all during install.

Point 1 - I don't argue with the fact it's easier in Linux, but just correcting crap Not sure what you want as proof ... but a quick google gives http://riccardo.raneri.it/blog/eng/inde...4/windows-xp-multiuser-remote-desktop/

Point 2 - You make a good point, but it's not the same as the bullshit he came out with
But to be honest... there isnt a mainstream OS in existence these days that has a problem read/writing to a huge variety of files systems. A content management architecture at work has pretty much anything and everything all happily reading and writing to each other. I couldnt say anything about a software RAID solution as I always use hardware based.

 

[RebateMonger]

Windows Genuine Advantage Notification in Danish
Wow. They sure use a lot of "v"s in Danish.

Gee, I didn't think they even had pirates in Denmark.
Were Vikings considered pirates?
According to Wikipedia, they were.

 

[nweaver]

Originally posted by: Seeruk

Originally posted by: nweaver

Originally posted by: Seeruk

2. I can have 10 people each with their own console and their own keyboard and mice on the same machine in Linux. I cannot do this in WinXP.

Yes You can

8. I can choose to use more than one filesystem for a Linux installation (/boot is ext2, / is reiserfs, /home is ext3, etc). WinXP only allows either NTFS OR FAT32, not both.

Flat out wrong

Nice try but no cigar

I would like to see the first thing backed up, especially considering there is no "thin client" windows (you have to have a host OS to do this....linux works great to boot and load a termina server session on a thin client, btw)

and while the second statement is incorrect (you CAN have NTFS and Fat32 in the same install) one point would be that with Linux you have a much larger choice of open standard file systems. XP=2 (and no s/w raid on install for XP that I know of)
Linux=5+, s/w raid, lvm, etc all during install.

Point 1 - I don't argue with the fact it's easier in Linux, but just correcting crap Not sure what you want as proof ... but a quick google gives http://riccardo.raneri.it/blog/eng/inde...4/windows-xp-multiuser-remote-desktop/

Point 2 - You make a good point, but it's not the same as the bullshit he came out with
But to be honest... there isnt a mainstream OS in existence these days that has a problem read/writing to a huge variety of files systems. A content management architecture at work has pretty much anything and everything all happily reading and writing to each other. I couldnt say anything about a software RAID solution as I always use hardware based.

1. You still can't have 10 users on one box, with one OS. That's 10 users CONNECTING TO a single. OS, and you are probably violating the EULA with that hack.

2. Is still a valid point (or 2) of things you can do with Linux you can't with windows.

 

[RebateMonger]

Originally posted by: nweaver....That's 10 users CONNECTING TO a single. OS, and you are probably violating the EULA with that hack.

Does that mean you'll get ten "Windows Genuine Advantage Notification" warnings?

 

[Seeruk]

Originally posted by: nweaver

1. You still can't have 10 users on one box, with one OS. That's 10 users CONNECTING TO a single. OS, and you are probably violating the EULA with that hack.

2. Is still a valid point (or 2) of things you can do with Linux you can't with windows.

1. Well you can with Windows Server and remote desktop... i can vouch for around 7 or 8 of us at work doing different things on a build a few days ago. If I was going to be picky I would say that really its only one specific 'distro' of Windows where it isnt a standard feature. I can't imagine any reason in the universe why a home user would want/need 10 people on the same box.

2. What is the point?? I dont get it ... either NTFS or FAT32 can be used on the primary partition, then anything you like for every other partition. Can you install Linux on NTFS? Not that I have ever heard of!

 

[doornail]

Originally posted by: Seeruk
1. Well you can with Windows Server and remote desktop... i can vouch for around 7 or 8 of us at work doing different things on a build a few days ago. If I was going to be picky I would say that really its only one specific 'distro' of Windows where it isnt a standard feature. I can't imagine any reason in the universe why a home user would want/need 10 people on the same box.

< ignore >He doesn't mean remote access. He's talking about one computer, ten USB keyboards, ten monitors, ten users.</ ignore >

Edit: Looks like I was the one who misunderstood, thanks Drag.


If you want to use thin clients, the Linux Terminal Server Project has been a pretty popular solution for schools and librarys. No licensing hassels and an excellent way to extend the life of old PC's.

From one of the users:

We replaced Windows NT 4.0 Terminal Service Edition with LTSP 2.x many years ago. We've never looked back. We currently serve about 60 clients from four LTSP 4.1 servers at offices in three states. All locations are connected with frame relay and internet connections. We only have about six windows machines company wide, including four laptops. In the beginning we re-used all our pentium or better machines and stuffed them with etherboot cards from disklessworkstations.com, over time we've replaced everything with thin clients, some jammin 125's and some netier boxes we bought second hand for $30-$75 each! Starting out, we made the switch to save on licensing costs that we didn't half understand to begin with. Immediately we realized we were saving far more admin time than licensing costs, because we were able to lock everything down better. LTSP has saved us piles of money over the years. I've seen LTSP evolve over the years and get better and better. Thanks Jim and crew!

 

[drag]

Originally posted by: doornail

Originally posted by: Seeruk
1. Well you can with Windows Server and remote desktop... i can vouch for around 7 or 8 of us at work doing different things on a build a few days ago. If I was going to be picky I would say that really its only one specific 'distro' of Windows where it isnt a standard feature. I can't imagine any reason in the universe why a home user would want/need 10 people on the same box.

He doesn't mean remote access. He's talking about one computer, ten USB keyboards, ten monitors, ten users.

I don't think that's what he ment.

I think that nweaver is talking about licensing limitations with some versions of Windows, I beleive. Like Windows XP home or whatnot. Not sure exactly what he ment.



Although... With the latest current release of X.org they recently did add the ability to have multiple users logged in at once. For instance it's technically possible to take one machine, add four video cards, add 4 usb keyboards, and 4 usb mice, and configure things so that you can have 4 users logged in at once, each with their own desktop. Although this is new and probably fairly flaky.

Previously there were more propriatory ways to do it with Linux. Nice for low-budget schools and cyber cafes and whatnot. You can cut down on the number of noisy computers, for instance.

Here is a mini howto on how one guy does it.
http://blog.chris.tylers.info/index.php...s/14-Multiseat-X-Under-X11R6.97.0.html

And you can go the other way also. Combine computers to have a single output.

It's possible to take 4 or more Linux machines, each with their own video card and monitor, and combine them together into a visualization cluster. That way you can use your mouse to move between them no problem. Also you can do 3d acceleration.. Like have one application open full screen and each node in the cluster takes care of accelerating it's own little part of the larger image.

Kinda neat. Not very usefull for most people. It's cheaper to just buy a realy big LCD or projection, but nessicary for certain types of research and visualization of information.

Here is some guy that made videos of them playing around with a visualization cluster (probably built for more serious items) and experimenting with a sort of motion detection mouse or whatnot.
http://www.plastk.net/

It's 12 machines with dual head nvidia cards outputing to a array of 24 computer monitors playing Quake 3.

I don't think you can do that in Windows.

 

[nweaver]

Either way....getting 10 users to have full access to a box isn't possible with windows. Terminal Server (remote admin, meaning full access) is limited to 3? sessions. Terminal server app mode is a single app.

Plus, if you have a TS, and 3 users on it, you STILL require 3 physical boxes (one on console, to to remote into it). With Linux, you can thin client, you can terminal it, etc.


Nice link Drag

 

[erikistired]

Originally posted by: Nothinman
If you really need MS Office you can use it on Linux via Crossover Office you really want. Or last I checked MS Office was released for OS X so you could go that route.

yeah office 2004 works great on os x.

 

[Stumps]

Who cares really??? if you do the right thing and have a genuine windows licence then WGA shouldn't be an issue...I have genuine licences for all of my 8 PC's which run WinXP, all of them got the update installed today, All of them work perfectly fine.

The only issue I have with MS is the removal of Activation via the Internet for OEM WinXP...now I have to call up microsoft everytime I want to reformat one of my drives....but as I discovered recently the MS operator(dispite their sometimes poor english)will allow you to activate multiple copies of windows in one phone call.

 

[erikistired]

Originally posted by: Stumps
Who cares really??? if you do the right thing and have a genuine windows licence then WGA shouldn't be an issue...I have genuine licences for all of my 8 PC's which run WinXP, all of them got the update installed today, All of them work perfectly fine.

The only issue I have with MS is the removal of Activation via the Internet for OEM WinXP...now I have to call up microsoft everytime I want to reformat one of my drives....but as I discovered recently the MS operator(dispite their sometimes poor english)will allow you to activate multiple copies of windows in one phone call.

i'm glad i replaced my oem copy of home with a retail copy of pro then. of course now i gotta figure out what to do with this extra copy of windows i just have laying around.

maybe microsoft should go the apple route and make their own proprietary computers that are required to run windows.

 

[Wyre]

Anyway who's going to supply the link to the Hack :laugh:

 

[Addikt]

You typed hardware and while I thought it was odd, I'm sure there's a lot of conspiracy theorists out there that are just waiting for MS to start a Genuine Hardware program for OEMs if there's not one already. I wasn't attempting to demean you at all, although if you want I can start pointing out things like your misuse of the word 'to' when you really meant to use 'too'.

Never knew that genuine hardware was really a problem, also I don't think that MS would really take on that challenge since it would provide no real benefit to them.

You can try but I never made the mistake of using 'to' instead of 'too' in either of my posts, so you must have read them wrong.

And as a customer you can vote with your money and go somewhere else. MS will never get the hint if people keep using their software despite all of the inconveniences they keep adding.

Normally yes, in this case no. That's the thing with monopolies and why governments try to do away with them, you really DON'T have a choice.

Tell that to all of the Mac users out there, I'm sure they'd be happy to point you to alternatives. Yes, if you want to play every game released on your PC then you'll have to use Windows but that's about it. Anything else can be done just as easily on OS X or Linux. And with WINE you can even play a lot of those games on Linux, albeit with varying levels of success.

Or expensive programs such as Simply Accounting that have only been created to run on the Windows OS. Sorry if I don't want to go out of my way to install emulation software or show staff how to use a completely different operating system.

It's not futile at all, they're not aiming for the hardcore crackers yet. As with WPA this is just designed to cut down on the people who would rather fork over the money than worry about cracking their system and having it still work. If they really wanted to cut down on the hardcore people they'd go after 3rd world countries where the Windows piracy rate is like 100x the number of people who buy the software.

Sounds like a futile attempt to me, why do they not go after these people in third world countries? Because those other countries don't care about American business and aren't going to prosecute their civilians because Microsoft said so. It's called jurisdiction, and the defendant will never be prosecuted in the US, China wouldn't let it happen. Like I said before this is a very uneconomical solution.

If you really need MS Office you can use it on Linux via Crossover Office you really want. Or last I checked MS Office was released for OS X so you could go that route.

Again, I'm not talking about simply using office or running every game on the market, I said 'office related programs'. The fact of the matter is that professionals invest in programs that are very expensive and only run on the Windows OS. Plus, like most businesses I do not have the time to migrate my operation to Linux or Mac (Mac is not even an option since it would be too expensive).

I am sorry, I was not attacking MS from just a user's point of view. I was talking about how the effects will create problems for not only simple users, but also for professionals who rely on the software. Not everyone has the option of simply switching, especially when you have created a business around using it. Your points ARE valid, just not in all cases. I am sure that most small business owners would not appreciate the potential problems this could cause if they in fact knew about it's release beforehand. Also MS is doing a great job of keeping this under the hood, with only a topic about it on their message boards I can't imagine that they are really proud of what they've come up with.

 

[RebateMonger]

For what it's worth...

nStation (sold ast Best Buy) allows up to ten "thin terminal" users to log simutaneously into Windows XP Professional.

BestBuy.com sells the product for $200.

 

[Nothinman]

Normally yes, in this case no. That's the thing with monopolies and why governments try to do away with them, you really DON'T have a choice.

No, the US government doesn't try to do away with monopolies unless they're abused. Infact patents are designed to enforce monopolies.

Or expensive programs such as Simply Accounting that have only been created to run on the Windows OS. Sorry if I don't want to go out of my way to install emulation software or show staff how to use a completely different operating system.

Either way it's still your choice, you're choosing to use Windows and you're choosing to use Simply Accounting.

Again, I'm not talking about simply using office or running every game on the market, I said 'office related programs'. The fact of the matter is that professionals invest in programs that are very expensive and only run on the Windows OS. Plus, like most businesses I do not have the time to migrate my operation to Linux or Mac (Mac is not even an option since it would be too expensive).

And again, you chose to put yourself in this position. If paying for Windows, Simply Accounting, etc is cheaper than migrating to Linux that's great and you should be happy that you have a solution that works.

I am sure that most small business owners would not appreciate the potential problems this could cause if they in fact knew about it's release beforehand. Also MS is doing a great job of keeping this under the hood, with only a topic about it on their message boards I can't imagine that they are really proud of what they've come up with.

As long as their licenses are legit this shouldn't cause any problems. This sounds like the ranting about how bad WPA was when XP first came out but now everyone knows it's there and it doesn't cause any real problems for people. It could be a lot worse, a piece of software that we use requires a license be generated on the machine so it can be tied to the MAC on that machine, sent back to the software manufacturer for signing and then put on the machine so it'll run. If you change the NIC the software breaks, if you get a new machine, the software breaks, etc.

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: KDOG
Don't mean to hijack this thread, but I'm running Ubuntu and I just CANNOT get a software DVD player on it. It has Totem but it won't play a DVD. It keeps asking for a plugin. Do any other OS that doornail linked to have DVD playback functionality built in?

As far as the topic goes, it only seems like people who are running bootleg copies of Windows will be affected by this. Serves them right. DON'T STEAL SOFTWARE.

pclos has about everything built in ..you will have to download libdvdcss (for dvd play) but its in the synaptec package manager you do not have to get it from a third party.

 

[RebateMonger]

Originally posted by: Nothinman
[This sounds like the ranting about how bad WPA was when XP first came out but now everyone knows it's there and it doesn't cause any real problems for people.

I was pretty upset when Microsoft first started WPA. But I'll have to admit that Microsoft actually managed to pull it off without too many glitches. NOBODY else has managed that. Symatec has made a mess of their product installs and product activations. Intuit gave up on their activation system for TurboTax.

I'm just happy that, for the most part, DONGLES went away.

 

[Addikt]

No, the US government doesn't try to do away with monopolies unless they're abused. Infact patents are designed to enforce monopolies.

Yes, I agree however in most cases there are extenuating circumstances. I know that a lot of patents are awarded to monopolies who supply to the military, CIA, and Department of Defese.

Either way it's still your choice, you're choosing to use Windows and you're choosing to use Simply Accounting.

I agree, and I'm not trying to blow it out of proportion. I did get a little hot under the collar when I read about this, but still if MS is going to do anything that will harm my business I will in fact be upset. Had I known from the getgo that such changes would be made and could create problems for me then I would have looked for another solution. This of course is impossible however.

And again, you chose to put yourself in this position. If paying for Windows, Simply Accounting, etc is cheaper than migrating to Linux that's great and you should be happy that you have a solution that works.

For the most part Simply Accounting and other accounting software that has been developed to run on linux and Mac are not really prominent. Also it's an area where name and quality are of the utmost importance when purchasing your software. I would in most cases use my current setup because it is the best despite any problems I would encounter. I don't think it needs to be said though that I would rather not encounter said difficulties.

As long as their licenses are legit this shouldn't cause any problems. This sounds like the ranting about how bad WPA was when XP first came out but now everyone knows it's there and it doesn't cause any real problems for people. It could be a lot worse, a piece of software that we use requires a license be generated on the machine so it can be tied to the MAC on that machine, sent back to the software manufacturer for signing and then put on the machine so it'll run. If you change the NIC the software breaks, if you get a new machine, the software breaks, etc.

Oh, I agree wholeheartedly. I agree that my rant was a little premature but it had to be said. Microsoft has made many 'improvements' in the past that have made my life a living hell and cost me actual money. I am sure there is worse software out there and that MS could have made things a lot worse. I still feel though, that this is uneconomical and could potentially upset paying customers who rely on the software. If I start up my computer in the morning and get stuck at a screen telling me that my legitimate copy of windows is not legitimate and I cannot log in, I cannot finish my work, and that costs me money. It's happened to me before and could conceivably happen to me again with the introduction of this anti-piracy system.

 

[Nothinman]

Yes, I agree however in most cases there are extenuating circumstances. I know that a lot of patents are awarded to monopolies who supply to the military, CIA, and Department of Defese.

No, patents were designed to give someone (or some corporation) a monopoly and are awarded to whoever gets there first. The idea is to encourage innovation by guaranteeing you that you'll be the only one able to make money off of the idea while the patent exists. Patents are the reason why MS can't provide a DVD player out of the box on Windows, they would have to pay licensing fee for each copy of the player they sold.

Had I known from the getgo that such changes would be made and could create problems for me then I would have looked for another solution. This of course is impossible however.

Every version of Windows has more and more antipiracy stuff integrated into it, it's a little surprising that they're retrofitting this onto an existing product but it should have at least been expected for Vista.

For the most part Simply Accounting and other accounting software that has been developed to run on linux and Mac are not really prominent. Also it's an area where name and quality are of the utmost importance when purchasing your software. I would in most cases use my current setup because it is the best despite any problems I would encounter. I don't think it needs to be said though that I would rather not encounter said difficulties.

There's no rule saying you have to switch over all or nothing, you could leave a few Windows machines to handle the legacy apps that you can't move away from. We had an OS/2 machine around here up until a few years ago, I'm not entirely sure why though.

I still feel though, that this is uneconomical and could potentially upset paying customers who rely on the software.

No doubt it'll upset people, but why should MS cares if those people are upset as long as they still pay for the software?

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

I doubt that Microsoft is really seeing any huge losses in profits from piracy of their operating system.

So? Stealing from the rich is still stealing.

stealing from the rich has a long noble tradition, dating back to Robin Hood and beyond.

 

[nweaver]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Nothinman

I doubt that Microsoft is really seeing any huge losses in profits from piracy of their operating system.

So? Stealing from the rich is still stealing.

stealing from the rich has a long noble tradition, dating back to the democratic party and beyond.

fixed

 

[Nothinman]

stealing from the rich has a long noble tradition, dating back to Robin Hood and beyond.

But didn't Robin Hood steal from the rich and give to the poor instead of keeping it for himself? You mean to tell me you're handing out burned XP CDs to the less fortunate?