It'd be interesting to know how many people using boot camp on their intel macs actaully buy legit copies of windows considering that all intel imacs are the same (ditto for the mini and Macbook Pro).
erikistired
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- Sep 27, 2000
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erikistired
Diamond Member
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not quite, microsoft is simply trying to somewhat protect it's product from being pirated. is it a great solution? no. however i'm sure if you have something better they'd be more than willing to listen. maybe they'll even offer you a job.
if you really don't agree, there's linux and os x. or next time you see a guy with a pirated copy of windows kick him in the nuts. if we all contribute perhaps MS won't need to go to extremes like this.
Well.. these activation scemes are probably more of a headache to legitiment users then illegitiment ones.
Say you take a guy that has finally learned, after years of using windows for writting letters to mom, that he should update his computer every once of a while. So you go to updates.microsoft.com or whatnot and update his computers. Now he gets a message saying he can't anymore because of this 'geniune notification' thingy.
What do you this person is most likely to do?
A. call Microsoft and complain and get a solution resolved. (probably also costing him a bit of $$ and a long wait on a telephone)
or...
B. Simply stop updating his computer and ignore the problem.
Now with any authentication sceme like this your going to have people falling through the cracks. How many updates will fail because of this?
1%
2%?
I'd bet probably a bit more.
This may be a effort to curb piracy, but it's also going to make the lives easier for various botnet-owning script kiddies out there. Simply because now Microsoft has figured out a way to make keeping your computer slightly more difficult to keep up to date then it was just a few weeks ago.
Say you take a guy that has finally learned, after years of using windows for writting letters to mom, that he should update his computer every once of a while. So you go to updates.microsoft.com or whatnot and update his computers. Now he gets a message saying he can't anymore because of this 'geniune notification' thingy.
What do you this person is most likely to do?
A. call Microsoft and complain and get a solution resolved. (probably also costing him a bit of $$ and a long wait on a telephone)
or...
B. Simply stop updating his computer and ignore the problem.
Now with any authentication sceme like this your going to have people falling through the cracks. How many updates will fail because of this?
1%
2%?
I'd bet probably a bit more.
This may be a effort to curb piracy, but it's also going to make the lives easier for various botnet-owning script kiddies out there. Simply because now Microsoft has figured out a way to make keeping your computer slightly more difficult to keep up to date then it was just a few weeks ago.
you know it will be hacked to death/avoided by legit criminals in less than 24 hours.
and people who say "anyone who isnt breaking the law has nothing to worry about" come off as cocky, morally superior or just plain ignorant. i dont speed but that doesnt mean i want a cop driving behind me all the time. its uncomfortable and not needed. a waste of resources and power
and people who say "anyone who isnt breaking the law has nothing to worry about" come off as cocky, morally superior or just plain ignorant. i dont speed but that doesnt mean i want a cop driving behind me all the time. its uncomfortable and not needed. a waste of resources and power
You can still deselect this update with Automatic Updates, at lest last time I checked.
I am disabling the Automatic Updates service again. I disabled it after the SP1 license chances and then reenabled to use Microsoft Updates, now dissabling again to avoid any possible problems.
I know MS will eventually try to make legit users pay extra for updates and PC use, just wait.
I am disabling the Automatic Updates service again. I disabled it after the SP1 license chances and then reenabled to use Microsoft Updates, now dissabling again to avoid any possible problems.
I know MS will eventually try to make legit users pay extra for updates and PC use, just wait.
Optional now, but mandatory soon enough.
Just like the validation was optional to download windows updates, but now is mandatory. The validation thing is now required to d/l directx for instance. Only automatic updates are exempt from validation checks now.
And BTW, to all those saying it will only annoy/effect people with pirated copies. Not true:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/cmp/20060504/tc_cmp/187200022
That admin had to open holes in his security to stop it from popping up those nag screens. (the other alternative was to give all the users admin rights). And since MS hasn't documented or updated its knowledge base on this issue, he had to call them to figure it out.
Side note: all my copies of XP on all my computers are legit. I've taken advantage of those $50 direct from MS XP Pro retail full copy deals a while back, and the deals at my college. And yet, twice in a single week now I've gotten annoyed with MS activation crap. Once from a hdd failure and MS office complaining that I had to call since it was at its limit. And before that it was when I put a new heatsink on my CPU and replaced some fans. For some reason, MS said I changed hardware and I wouldn't let me log in without doing an activation. And since for some reason it had to redetect and reinstall my network driver, it couldn't do it over the internet and I had to call. AGAIN. And it wouldn't even show me the code to type in on the phone (that part of the screen was BLANK). The joys of owning LEGIT installs of windows XP.
I'd have less trouble using a volume liscense non legit copy that didn't need activation. I've had experiance with them from work at a non profit organization I work at. They have a VLK liscense for all their computers and I never get bugged by activation when I'm setting up computers over there. I would never take a copy from them, but it seems like MS is trying to annoy me into doing something like that. This crap seems to only annoy legitimate customers.
Thanks again MS!
Just like the validation was optional to download windows updates, but now is mandatory. The validation thing is now required to d/l directx for instance. Only automatic updates are exempt from validation checks now.
And BTW, to all those saying it will only annoy/effect people with pirated copies. Not true:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/cmp/20060504/tc_cmp/187200022
That admin had to open holes in his security to stop it from popping up those nag screens. (the other alternative was to give all the users admin rights). And since MS hasn't documented or updated its knowledge base on this issue, he had to call them to figure it out.
Side note: all my copies of XP on all my computers are legit. I've taken advantage of those $50 direct from MS XP Pro retail full copy deals a while back, and the deals at my college. And yet, twice in a single week now I've gotten annoyed with MS activation crap. Once from a hdd failure and MS office complaining that I had to call since it was at its limit. And before that it was when I put a new heatsink on my CPU and replaced some fans. For some reason, MS said I changed hardware and I wouldn't let me log in without doing an activation. And since for some reason it had to redetect and reinstall my network driver, it couldn't do it over the internet and I had to call. AGAIN. And it wouldn't even show me the code to type in on the phone (that part of the screen was BLANK). The joys of owning LEGIT installs of windows XP.
I'd have less trouble using a volume liscense non legit copy that didn't need activation. I've had experiance with them from work at a non profit organization I work at. They have a VLK liscense for all their computers and I never get bugged by activation when I'm setting up computers over there. I would never take a copy from them, but it seems like MS is trying to annoy me into doing something like that. This crap seems to only annoy legitimate customers.
Thanks again MS!
yeah, it is a pain. dx is the only standalone download i can think of that i would need to download ever. If my copy was not legitimate i could always not download update or use one of the many available hacks.
I fail to see how this is going to work against those who purposefully use illegitimate copies because they don't want to pay. I think the less tech savvy ones already made accommodations after the first validation checks on updates awhile back. The ones who remain will continue to circumvent.
I fail to see how this is going to work against those who purposefully use illegitimate copies because they don't want to pay. I think the less tech savvy ones already made accommodations after the first validation checks on updates awhile back. The ones who remain will continue to circumvent.
I've been in law firms of all places where half the network software was pirated or illegal copies. Their philosophy being Microsoft was unwilling to prosecute, so they didn't care. Uh, that's about to change. Like, some guy driving a BMW and has three homes can't afford a copy of MS Office.
I'm also seeing bounties of very large monetary values being offered in some countries for employees to 'narc' on their employers who use pirated software. I expect to see more of that in the United States.
The sad thing is, Microsoft is the only one blamed for being nasty about software registration when the non Microsoft platforms I deal with are far worse.
Originally posted by: mechBgon
There's your actual issue. The NIC is worth three of the ten "votes" that make up your validation hash.
You may now resume your regularly-scheduled rant.
Yes I know that, I know how the stuff works.
[rant!]
But why would it do that when I changed NO hardware? I took out the mobo, put a new heatsink in, put some new fans in (got most to 120mm now, so much quieter) and thats it. No actual hardware changes. In addition, my network wasn't actually "changed" it was exactly the same, only MS had to redetect it. I guess if it redetects, it counts that as a change, even if it ends up being the same exact hardware with presumably the same hash result.
[/rant!]
Last I checked, my asus a8n-sli deluxe only had 1 CPU socket. So no.
And I have no PCI cards plugged in (I love having everything nessasary built into mobo), so no.
And I didn't touch the graphics card or switch it to a new PCI express slot, so no.
Its because windows activation is ghey
Here's a slideshow with screenshots from a presentation MS is doing about this "feature". Found it on google. Some screenshots show you what the warnings look like:
http://windowsobserver.com/gallery2/v/WindowsGenuineAdvantage/?g2_page=2
I dunno if its been linked on this thread yet.
mechBgon
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I don't know why the A8N-SLI would do anything differently with its onboard NIC as a result of what you're describing, but that's evidently what happened. That is certainly Microsoft's fault, since they make your motherboard and its BIOS. In hidden factories on the moon, probably.
If you have an issue with product activation, then *shrug*. This happens to be how Microsoft does it. With onboard NICs being tied to the motherboard, giving them a heavier "weight" than plug-in parts does make sense when the goal is to determine if the Windows installation is on the same machine that it used to be on. You might want to look at the tips provided on this page for a way to deal with it better next time (haven't tried them myself, but you've got nothing to lose).
Its microsoft's fault for doing activation at all
It only annoys legitimate customers. Non legit people are just going to d/l a VLK version without activation.How do I know this? Because I own probably a dozen 100% legit copies of windows XP, some home, some pro, some retail, some oem. I have all legit copies on all my computers. I also own several legit copies of office (2000, xp, 2003, etc). And I get annoyed at this crap.
I also have seen people with non legit copies not ever getting bothered by activation. I've seen them use workarounds for WGA, so they can download the MS stuff without having legit copy.
I do work at a non profit that uses VLK versions for windows and office and its never a problem with activation there.
I think I figured out why it triggered the activation. For some reason my MAC address was differant than before. So that probably made windows think that the network card was changed.
But explaining why it happened doesn't make me any happier about the hassle I had to go through to reactivate it.
calling MS has always been a painless thing for me...about 5 minutes out of my life. I can't fault MS with trying to protect their IP. I wouldn't blame them as much as the folks who pirate windows.
No, maybe not. If it was 1 call a year or a couple times a year. But when it gets to be multiple times a week, thats pretty annoying.
And sure, they have the right to protect thier IP, but I think something like offering those extra downloadable cool things for validated windows users only is a much better path to take. I.e. the carrot instead of the stick. Since the stick mostly bothers the legit customers. I forget exactly what programs they've been offering for validated customers, I think one is a photo editing program or some such.
For instance, they could offer the first year free of the virus/antispyware onecare thing they are doing to validated customers. They had a deal last month where it was only $20 for the first year (now its like $60 a year). They are just trying to get market share away from norton and similar companies.
Doing something like that would accomplish several goals at once. Offer people incentives to get legit versions of windows AND take away market share from norton at same time
They can't be making much money on thier limited time offer of $20 for first year, so its not like doing this would cost them much money. Its much more valuable for MS to have market share than the pure monetary value of the initial year.
MS did the same thing with Xbox1. They considered that a throwaway console to gain the market. They lost a ton of money (billions) overall in that division. The first time they showed a quarterly profit in the xbox division was from halo 2's release. They lost so much money on the hardware (since they sold it at a loss) that not even the software sales gained them profit up until that quarter. And I think they had some more losses after that.
mechBgon
Super Moderator<br>Elite Member
- Oct 31, 1999
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Fixed. Not everyone's an AnandTech Forums dweller. If I bought a computer for Mom from a local shop, and they gave me a counterfeit WinXP CD and license, then I'd rather know about it. I live a few hundred feet from a computer shop that got nailed by Microsoft for counterfeit software, so this is not a completely-hypothetical example.Its microsoft's fault for doing activation at all
Don't get me wrong, having to call for activation annoys me too. Since we have WinXP Pro licenses, we can of course use our downgrade rights and install Win2000 Pro in its place, if we feel this strongly about activation. How do you feel about that option? For me, I could do that at home, but would rather have the better security of WinXP. At work, some of my software won't work on anything older than WinXP SP2, so it's not an option there.
I manage a test lab with 600+ computers. We use VLK sometimes, but sometimes we also use the non VL for some things. I have called MS 3 times in the last year...if you are calling several times a week, I would review my habits and see what I can change.
nweaver: It was a couple times this particular week. Not on average. So being above average annoyed with MS, I was in a good ranting mood when I came across this thread
As for changing my habits, How exactly am I supposed to avoid it when a hard drive fails? Or when I change a few fans to make my computer quieter and it suddenly demands it?
Just as a test I went to a common torrent site.
I searched for windows. Most of the hits that came up were titled CORPORATE.
That means VLK versions, which means no activation.
I would imagine its similar with most counterfeit copies from scam stores, they dont have legitimate 1 time use cd keys to give out like a retail version, so what are they going to give out? VLK copies with VLK keys.
So, no need to be technically savy, beyond knowing how to use a torrent (or whatever p2p program is being used nowadays, kazaa?) and how to burn a cd.
As for changing my habits, How exactly am I supposed to avoid it when a hard drive fails? Or when I change a few fans to make my computer quieter and it suddenly demands it?
Not fixed, mangledOriginally posted by: mechBgon
Fixed. Not everyone's an AnandTech Forums dweller.Its microsoft's fault for doing activation at all
Just as a test I went to a common torrent site.
I searched for windows. Most of the hits that came up were titled CORPORATE.
That means VLK versions, which means no activation.
I would imagine its similar with most counterfeit copies from scam stores, they dont have legitimate 1 time use cd keys to give out like a retail version, so what are they going to give out? VLK copies with VLK keys.
So, no need to be technically savy, beyond knowing how to use a torrent (or whatever p2p program is being used nowadays, kazaa?) and how to burn a cd.
- Dec 24, 2005
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I can't imagine using a pirated downloaded version of Windows nowadays. Not with all the rootkits floating around. It could be equivalent to emailing one's credit card numbers directly to China or Russia. How can you be sure you aren't getting a "specially modified" version of XP?
Which is one of the many reasons why all my copies are 100% legit.
But how many non "technically savy" (to use a phrase from mechBgon) people are going to know about dangers of rootkits or trojans in a copy of windows? Heck they are the kinda people who actually CLICK on spam or phishing emails. If no one clicked on this stuff, or gave out thier private financial info and made these guys money, almost no one would spam/phish. But sadly, many people actually do click.
As a matter of fact, the person who is likely to click on spam is a person who is a potential buyer of the $30 counterfeit windows copies that are spammed, and that same person is not likely to know the technical computer dangers of purchasing it, let alone the danger of giving thier credit card/address info to a scam store.
mechBgon
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No activation is one thing. Whether it'll pass a Genuine Advantage check might be something else again. I can only claim 100% ignorance on this one... anyone want to risk the wrath of Basket Cat and clarify this? I recall someone just recently posting that the lappie they bought off an Ebay seller is failing the Genuine Advantage check and plagueing him/her with the notification. Presumably it has VLK on it, although I don't know if he/she came out and said that.
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