Will George W. Bush go down in history...

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Then why are you insisting on repeating the mistakes of the 1920's brits?

BTW, there are a lot of combat vets who think this is a damn foolish war, and will be glad to see the back end of Bush when his term is up.

very few that I've served with.

If your "in person" persona is as gung ho as your "on line" persona, why would anyone who disagrees with your view tell you what they REALLY think of Bush? It would obviously just start an argument and/or create hard feelings. Not something I'd want to do with someone I was working with.

Discretion is the better part of valor.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
I see what you're saying, and it does make a certain kind of sense. But I'd point out that in our current Republican dominated system, there is very little anyone who doesn't agree with Bush's approach can do other than complain about the job he's doing. People who think like Bush are planning and executing every step of this war, it's not like those who disagree can plan and run their own war on terror. It's either support Bush's way, or make some noise about it. The only "do-ers" are on his side, because he controls who gets to be a do-er and who gets to watch from the sidelines. Even people in the intelligence and military community who disagree can only go so far, at the end of the day, Bush IS the boss...and he's is less receptive than most presidents to dissenting opinions from his peons.

valid points all.

The other thing I'd like to point out is that the "do-ers" group contains quite a few less people than Bush supporters might like to think. Slapping a sticker on your truck doesn't make you a do-er, in the grand scheme of the war on terrorism, it puts you just about where the complainers are. Whether you are cheering for the Packers or booing them, neither act makes you a football player. I'm not suggesting that only those who play an active role in the conflict should be allowed to voice their opinions, I'm just saying that the vast majority of people speaking on this issue are not do-ers in any sense of the word (provided that it is in fact a word ). They're all armchair generals and armchair intelligence officers. Which is fine, as far as that goes, just wanted to provide some perspective for some peopel who think approving of the way Bush is doing things gives their opinion some special weight.

I will only say this: those who are fully supportive of the way things are being done may only be putting stickers on their cars and whatnot, but that is MUCH less detrimental than those mucking up the process (ie. the Dems in Congress tying the arms of those doing the fighting, seemingly more worried about the prisoners' rights in Cuba than the wellbeing of our troops on the ground, and certainly less worried about destroying our enemies, etc).

So those who are supportive and quiet are much more beneficial than those who whine and complain and attempt to stand in the way of everything without offering much in the way of alternatives.

If you wish to try and help, through brainstorming workable alternatives, etc, then please do so! If not, and all you want to do is judge the "do-ers" and complain, then please stop and get out of the way...

 

[Orignal Earl]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Then why are you insisting on repeating the mistakes of the 1920's brits?

BTW, there are a lot of combat vets who think this is a damn foolish war, and will be glad to see the back end of Bush when his term is up.

very few that I've served with.

There's a new poll out

As the Times' Nicholas Kristof reports, the first-ever poll of U.S. troops currently serving in Iraq shows that 72 percent of them think the United States should get out of Iraq within the year; 29 percent say the U.S. should leave Iraq immediately.

What are the troops doing in Iraq? Fifty-eight percent say their mission is clear, but 42 percent say the U.S role is hazy. There's one thing on which they agree, however: According to Zogby, which conducted the poll with New York's Le Moyne College, 85 percent of the troops say a major reason for the U.S. mission is "to retaliate for Saddam's role in the 9/11 attacks."

The Soldiers Speak. Will President Bush Listen?

Beside's with all your combat experience you should know, most soldiers don't fight for Bush, or country or the lastest War on Whatever. They fight for their buddy to their left and their right

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: kstu
...as one of the worst presidents ever.

Basically, in 25 years, what will we read about our current president in our children's history books.

There won't be much about him in history books used at the elementary or middle school level. Those books are the Cliff Notes of Cliff Notes of US History.


That said, the Propagandist will surely go down as a miserable failure. Everything enacted or passed as part of his administration has been to the benefit of the wealthy or corporations and to the detriment of the average American, the American economy, the environment and overall world stability.

"Heckuva job".

 

[Al Neri]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: kstu
...as one of the worst presidents ever.

Basically, in 25 years, what will we read about our current president in our children's history books.

There won't be much about him in history books used at the elementary or middle school level. Those books are the Cliff Notes of Cliff Notes of US History.


That said, the Propagandist will surely go down as a miserable failure. Everything enacted or passed as part of his administration has been to the benefit of the wealthy or corporations and to the detriment of the average American, the American economy, the environment and overall world stability.

"Heckuva job".

Well. If democracy thrives in the middle east, he will be the 21st century Abraham Lincoln, but I forgot all Bush haters are negative, and have no optimism:

As far as the economy explain this:

as of yesterday, the S&P 500 had the best 2 month start since 1998.

Unemployment as of 1/06 is 4.7%.

The DJIA is just about at 11000.



I'm sick and tired of people saying things that they have little to no knowledge of, or don't even bother checking, and especially someone who regards himself as highly as you Conjur. Ridiculous.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: kstu
...as one of the worst presidents ever.

Basically, in 25 years, what will we read about our current president in our children's history books.

There won't be much about him in history books used at the elementary or middle school level. Those books are the Cliff Notes of Cliff Notes of US History.


That said, the Propagandist will surely go down as a miserable failure. Everything enacted or passed as part of his administration has been to the benefit of the wealthy or corporations and to the detriment of the average American, the American economy, the environment and overall world stability.

"Heckuva job".

Well. If democracy thrives in the middle east, he will be the 21st century Abraham Lincoln, but I forgot all Bush haters are negative, and have no optimism:

As far as the economy explain this:

as of yesterday, the S&P 500 had the best 2 month start since 1998.

Unemployment as of 1/06 is 4.7%.

The DJIA is just about at 11000.



I'm sick and tired of people saying things that they have little to no knowledge of, or don't even bother checking, and especially someone who regards himself as highly as you Conjur. Ridiculous.

LOL, the DJIA and unemployment are back to where they were it when Bush took office??? Sure wish I could say that about the budjet/deficit.

Gas is double, wages are lower, health care is through the roof, and we have an unecessary war in Iraq.

HA, "Heckuva job" Booshies!!

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez
as of yesterday, the S&P 500 had the best 2 month start since 1998.

The DJIA is just about at 11000.

The indexes of the stock market are no longer a good indication of the economy. If that were the case, I could point out that the DOW is 250 points above where it was when Bush took office....in 2001. Quite a rsie there, eh? The S&P isn't much better. The indexes have lagged the general profit rises (who knows why). The economy isn't in the tank, but it's being built on rocky foundations that could easily collapse (trade, dollar issues, oil issues, deficit problems, etc).

Wages are down for all except the over 45 crowd in the last 4 years (by as much as 9% when adjusted for inflation). It might not be a turd, but it isn't a rose either.

 

[Al Neri]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: kstu
...as one of the worst presidents ever.

Basically, in 25 years, what will we read about our current president in our children's history books.

There won't be much about him in history books used at the elementary or middle school level. Those books are the Cliff Notes of Cliff Notes of US History.


That said, the Propagandist will surely go down as a miserable failure. Everything enacted or passed as part of his administration has been to the benefit of the wealthy or corporations and to the detriment of the average American, the American economy, the environment and overall world stability.

"Heckuva job".

Well. If democracy thrives in the middle east, he will be the 21st century Abraham Lincoln, but I forgot all Bush haters are negative, and have no optimism:

As far as the economy explain this:

as of yesterday, the S&P 500 had the best 2 month start since 1998.

Unemployment as of 1/06 is 4.7%.

The DJIA is just about at 11000.



I'm sick and tired of people saying things that they have little to no knowledge of, or don't even bother checking, and especially someone who regards himself as highly as you Conjur. Ridiculous.

LOL, the DJIA and unemployment are back to where they were it they when Bush took office??? Sure wish I could say that about the deficit.

Gas is double, wages are lower, and we have an unecessary war in Iraq.

HA, "Heckuva job" Booshies!!

you prove your ignorance well.

the dow jones industrials average opened on January 22, 2001, first day of trading while Bush was in office at 10,581.90.

the dow jones industrials average closed on February 28, 2006 (yesterday) at 10,993.41

[/1EZduzit]

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: kstu
...as one of the worst presidents ever.

Basically, in 25 years, what will we read about our current president in our children's history books.

There won't be much about him in history books used at the elementary or middle school level. Those books are the Cliff Notes of Cliff Notes of US History.


That said, the Propagandist will surely go down as a miserable failure. Everything enacted or passed as part of his administration has been to the benefit of the wealthy or corporations and to the detriment of the average American, the American economy, the environment and overall world stability.

"Heckuva job".

Well. If democracy thrives in the middle east, he will be the 21st century Abraham Lincoln, but I forgot all Bush haters are negative, and have no optimism:

As far as the economy explain this:

as of yesterday, the S&P 500 had the best 2 month start since 1998.

Unemployment as of 1/06 is 4.7%.

The DJIA is just about at 11000.



I'm sick and tired of people saying things that they have little to no knowledge of, or don't even bother checking, and especially someone who regards himself as highly as you Conjur. Ridiculous.

LOL, the DJIA and unemployment are back to where they were it they when Bush took office??? Sure wish I could say that about the deficit.

Gas is double, wages are lower, and we have an unecessary war in Iraq.

HA, "Heckuva job" Booshies!!

you prove your ignorance well.

the dow jones industrials average opened on January 22, 2001, first day of trading while Bush was in office at 10,581.90.

the dow jones industrials average closed on February 28, 2006 (yesterday) at 10,993.41

[/1EZduzit]

And you think that is something to brad about? Apparantely you do. Just over 4% in 5 years...WOW. Great returns there.

 

[Al Neri]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez
as of yesterday, the S&P 500 had the best 2 month start since 1998.

The DJIA is just about at 11000.

The indexes of the stock market are no longer a good indication of the economy. If that were the case, I could point out that the DOW is 250 points above where it was when Bush took office....in 2001. Quite a rsie there, eh? The S&P isn't much better. The indexes have lagged the general profit rises (who knows why). The economy isn't in the tank, but it's being built on rocky foundations that could easily collapse (trade, dollar issues, oil issues, deficit problems, etc).

Wages are down for all except the over 45 crowd in the last 4 years (by as much as 9% when adjusted for inflation). It might not be a turd, but it isn't a rose either.

How about Real Wages... they're growing, even if its slowly, people are making more money in real terms!

source:http://money.cnn.com/2006/01/30/pf/real_wage_growth_slow/index.htm

come on man, everything is blamed in this administration, controllable or uncontrollable. This administration saw the greatest attack on American soil since Pearl Harbor (and if you want to say mainland america, we're talking the american civil war), and the economy has risen and rebounded, even though there was a HUGE bubble that burst on March 10, 2000. I completely blame the "blame-it-on-bush" crowd that ends at "Bush can't say nuclear properly" being the basis of the average Bush hater's argument, at least from what I've seen.

 

[Al Neri]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: kstu
...as one of the worst presidents ever.

Basically, in 25 years, what will we read about our current president in our children's history books.

There won't be much about him in history books used at the elementary or middle school level. Those books are the Cliff Notes of Cliff Notes of US History.


That said, the Propagandist will surely go down as a miserable failure. Everything enacted or passed as part of his administration has been to the benefit of the wealthy or corporations and to the detriment of the average American, the American economy, the environment and overall world stability.

"Heckuva job".

Well. If democracy thrives in the middle east, he will be the 21st century Abraham Lincoln, but I forgot all Bush haters are negative, and have no optimism:

As far as the economy explain this:

as of yesterday, the S&P 500 had the best 2 month start since 1998.

Unemployment as of 1/06 is 4.7%.

The DJIA is just about at 11000.



I'm sick and tired of people saying things that they have little to no knowledge of, or don't even bother checking, and especially someone who regards himself as highly as you Conjur. Ridiculous.

LOL, the DJIA and unemployment are back to where they were it they when Bush took office??? Sure wish I could say that about the deficit.

Gas is double, wages are lower, and we have an unecessary war in Iraq.

HA, "Heckuva job" Booshies!!

you prove your ignorance well.

the dow jones industrials average opened on January 22, 2001, first day of trading while Bush was in office at 10,581.90.

the dow jones industrials average closed on February 28, 2006 (yesterday) at 10,993.41

[/1EZduzit]

And you think that is something to brad about? Apparantely you do. Just over 4% in 5 years...WOW. Great returns there.

well lets see... the equivalence of a crash occurred just before that March 10, 2000, and the largest attack on the CONUS since the civil war happened in the timespan, yes I consider that quite amazing!

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez
I completely blame the "blame-it-on-bush" crowd that ends at "Bush can't say nuclear properly" being the basis of the average Bush hater's argument, at least from what I've seen.

Huh?????

 

[Engineer]

Real wages are growing for the over 45 crowd (enough to give a slight (1% according to your article over 24 months) uptick for the US average), but are down 8 or 9% (according to which group you belong to) for younger workers.

Click me.

The baby boomers have sold out the younger generations. Bush's stupid @ss Iraq war and huge spending have pinned the US economy on shakey, unsure ground (no wonder the market is afraid to go forward. no wonder oil prices are high due to the instability). If dumbass hadn't went to war with Iraq, the world would have been a better place but no, he had to jump in the the PNAC policy of injecting his beliefs into the ME.

Forever, he'll be a loser, lier and a bastard.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: kstu
...as one of the worst presidents ever.

Basically, in 25 years, what will we read about our current president in our children's history books.

There won't be much about him in history books used at the elementary or middle school level. Those books are the Cliff Notes of Cliff Notes of US History.


That said, the Propagandist will surely go down as a miserable failure. Everything enacted or passed as part of his administration has been to the benefit of the wealthy or corporations and to the detriment of the average American, the American economy, the environment and overall world stability.

"Heckuva job".

Well. If democracy thrives in the middle east, he will be the 21st century Abraham Lincoln, but I forgot all Bush haters are negative, and have no optimism:

As far as the economy explain this:

as of yesterday, the S&P 500 had the best 2 month start since 1998.

Unemployment as of 1/06 is 4.7%.

The DJIA is just about at 11000.



I'm sick and tired of people saying things that they have little to no knowledge of, or don't even bother checking, and especially someone who regards himself as highly as you Conjur. Ridiculous.

LOL, the DJIA and unemployment are back to where they were it they when Bush took office??? Sure wish I could say that about the deficit.

Gas is double, wages are lower, and we have an unecessary war in Iraq.

HA, "Heckuva job" Booshies!!

you prove your ignorance well.

the dow jones industrials average opened on January 22, 2001, first day of trading while Bush was in office at 10,581.90.

the dow jones industrials average closed on February 28, 2006 (yesterday) at 10,993.41

[/1EZduzit]

LMAO!! You like being a tool for a fool, don't you.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez
I completely blame the "blame-it-on-bush" crowd that ends at "Bush can't say nuclear properly" being the basis of the average Bush hater's argument, at least from what I've seen.

Huh?????

As Pamela Anderson used to say, "It's Tool Time!".

 

[Al Neri]

Originally posted by: Engineer
Real wages are growing for the over 45 crowd (enough to give a slight (1% according to your article over 24 months) uptick for the US average), but are down 8 or 9% (according to which group you belong to) for younger workers.

Click me.

The baby boomers have sold out the younger generations. Bush's stupid @ss Iraq war and huge spending have pinned the US economy on shakey, unsure ground (no wonder the market is afraid to go forward. no wonder oil prices are high due to the instability). If dumbass hadn't went to war with Iraq, the world would have been a better place but no, he had to jump in the the PNAC policy of injecting his beliefs into the ME.

Forever, he'll be a loser, liar and a bastard.

Well, as far as instability, and the Middle East is concerned, can tell me when it wasn't unstable throughout history? See, this is where we differ however. Does that mean that we shouldn't try to stabilize the area because it was always a failure [see crusades]? Can you disagree with the fact that the middle east is a breeding ground for WWIII? Do you think Iran wouldn't want nuclear weapons if we didn't invade Iraq? If you believe so, imo you are sadly mistaken. The actions taken in the middle east is an attempt to soften the powder keg. (Even if you see it as a failure, can you disagree with the intent?)

There's no two ways about it, oil is in the middle east, oil is a very precious and valuable natural resource, any way you look at it, the middle east has always been unstable, so the whole oil price skyrocketing is more due to the lack of valuing oil properly and getting proper supply numbers from OPEC, leading the belief that there's a limited supply of oil left. Oil priced at ~61.00 is 99.9% speculation, .1% valuation. There are no solid numbers to get a true value.

You don't see why there's a war in Iraq, and I do. That's just the way it is, you back up it up with facts, and I respect that. But ezduzit, well, he's part of the group I refer to as "Bush can't say nuclear properly" group.

basically, when you ask someone who's an avid bush hater, why exactly they hate about bush they respond with "he's stupid," "he can't pronounce words." And 1Ezduzit, that's basically all you've proven thus far.

as far as you saying :

As Pamela Anderson used to say, "It's Tool Time!".

well, you seem like a real cool cat. lol.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez

Originally posted by: Engineer
Real wages are growing for the over 45 crowd (enough to give a slight (1% according to your article over 24 months) uptick for the US average), but are down 8 or 9% (according to which group you belong to) for younger workers.

Click me.

The baby boomers have sold out the younger generations. Bush's stupid @ss Iraq war and huge spending have pinned the US economy on shakey, unsure ground (no wonder the market is afraid to go forward. no wonder oil prices are high due to the instability). If dumbass hadn't went to war with Iraq, the world would have been a better place but no, he had to jump in the the PNAC policy of injecting his beliefs into the ME.

Forever, he'll be a loser, liar and a bastard.

Well, as far as instability, and the Middle East is concerned, can tell me when it wasn't unstable throughout history? See, this is where we differ however. Does that mean that we shouldn't try to stabilize the area because it was always a failure [see crusades]? Can you disagree with the fact that the middle east is a breeding ground for WWIII? Do you think Iran wouldn't want nuclear weapons if we didn't invade Iraq? If you believe so, imo you are sadly mistaken. The actions taken in the middle east is an attempt to soften the powder keg. (Even if you see it as a failure, can you disagree with the intent?)

There's no two ways about it, oil is in the middle east, oil is a very precious and valuable natural resource, any way you look at it, the middle east has always been unstable, so the whole oil price skyrocketing is more due to the lack of valuing oil properly and getting proper supply numbers from OPEC, leading the belief that there's a limited supply of oil left. Oil priced at ~61.00 is 99.9% speculation, .1% valuation. There are no solid numbers to get a true value.

You don't see why there's a war in Iraq, and I do. That's just the way it is, you back up it up with facts, and I respect that. But ezduzit, well, he's part of the group I refer to as "Bush can't say nuclear properly" group.

basically, when you ask someone who's an avid bush hater, why exactly they hate about bush they respond with "he's stupid," "he can't pronounce words." And 1Ezduzit, that's basically all you've proven thus far.

as far as you saying :

As Pamela Anderson used to say, "It's Tool Time!".

well, you seem like a real cool cat. lol.

And your a legend in your own mind.

 

[classy]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
I think Jr. will go down in history as a fool, and not even a well-intentioned fool. Just a "born with a silver spoon in his mouth" garden variety fool.

LOL, omg No he didn't say "garden variety" :laugh:

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: kstu
...as one of the worst presidents ever.

Basically, in 25 years, what will we read about our current president in our children's history books.

There won't be much about him in history books used at the elementary or middle school level. Those books are the Cliff Notes of Cliff Notes of US History.


That said, the Propagandist will surely go down as a miserable failure. Everything enacted or passed as part of his administration has been to the benefit of the wealthy or corporations and to the detriment of the average American, the American economy, the environment and overall world stability.

"Heckuva job".

Well. If democracy thrives in the middle east, he will be the 21st century Abraham Lincoln, but I forgot all Bush haters are negative, and have no optimism:

That "if" is the size of the Milky Way.

And, it's not that "Bush haters" are negative, it's that they are able to see thru the bullsh*t and propaganda from the administration that continually campaigns instead of governing.

As far as the economy explain this:

as of yesterday, the S&P 500 had the best 2 month start since 1998.

Unemployment as of 1/06 is 4.7%.

The DJIA is just about at 11000.

We've gone over these many, many times. The fact you don't question the state of the US economy and see how fraudulent the "recovery" is speaks volumes as to your lack of critical thinking skills.

I'm sick and tired of people saying things that they have little to no knowledge of, or don't even bother checking, and especially someone who regards himself as highly as you Conjur. Ridiculous.

I'm sick and tired of people saying things that they have little to no knowledge of and don't even bother checking, and especially someone who regards himself as highly as you Don Rodriguez. Ridiculous.

 

[OCNewbie]

That remains to be seen, for sure though he'll be remembered to be the most controversial president I'd imagine. Where you have so many that seem to wish him dead, and think he's like one of Satan's kids or something.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez

Well. If democracy thrives in the middle east, he will be the 21st century Abraham Lincoln, but I forgot all Bush haters are negative, and have no optimism:

It would probably be an excellent bet that it won't "thrive" and that if it does, it will be similar to the way democracy "thrived" in the Palestinian State.

As far as the economy explain this:

as of yesterday, the S&P 500 had the best 2 month start since 1998.

Unemployment as of 1/06 is 4.7%.

The DJIA is just about at 11000.

How the Economic News is Spun--and Why
http://www.vdare.com/roberts/060228_economics.htm

Jobs News Even Worse Than We Thought
http://www.vdare.com/roberts/060211_jobs.htm

Their Own Economic Reality
http://www.vdare.com/roberts/060215_reality.htm

Note that one reason for the increase in the stocks could be increased profits for the owners of stocks at the expense of wages for the middle and lower classes--the looting of the middle class through global labor wage arbitrage. People will still work, it's just that the owners of the capital will keep a larger percentage of the workers' contribution to the act of production, giving the workers a smaller share (supply of and demand for labor--when you add billions of impoverished people to the labor force overnight relative to the amount of capital, wages have to decrease).

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: OCNewbie
That remains to be seen, for sure though he'll be remembered to be the most controversial president I'd imagine. Where you have so many that seem to wish him dead, and think he's like one of Satan's kids or something.

Fsck that, if he kicks Herr Cheney becomes out leader..well at least publicly.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez

Unemployment as of 1/06 is 4.7%.

THE MYTH OF THE UNEMPLOYMENT NUMBERS:

What people don't realize about the unemployment numbers...is that they are heavily politicized numbers that do not necessarily reflect reality.

(1) The numbers do not tell us what kinds of jobs people work. An upper middle class job counts just as much as a poverty-wage job. Did you know that people in third world countries work too? It's quite possible to have 5% unemployment with the majority of the populace being working poor. They're all employed--they're just working poor. (Don't like the low wage? We'll ship your job to China.) So,

95% employment at poverty wage jobs = 5% unemployment. (Yippee!)

and

95% employment at solid middle class jobs = 5% unemployment. (OMG, it looks the same!)

Thus, the unemployment number doesn't tell us all that much about the actual state of the job market or people's standard of living. It doesn't tell us whether we're still a first world country or whether we're descending to third world status.

(2) The unemployment numbers often purposely ignore people who have "dropped out" of the job market. These are people who want to work but often can't find anything other than poverty wage jobs. You'd more or less refer to them as being unemployed if you knew them personally. So, the laid-off 57 year old MBA who suffers age discrimination and who concludes that he might as well just retire early and live frugally off of his savings rather than work at McWalmart is not "unemployed" according to the data even though he'd like to work at a job that's appropriate to his abilities. The college-educated guy who's been searching for a middle class job for over a year might be regarded as having "dropped out" of the labor force--so he doesn't count as unemployed. The college-educated mother of two who decides that it makes more economic sense to be a housewife because she can't find anything better than a $7/hour job also doesn't count as unemployed even though she'd gladly take a job that paid a wage commensurate to the value of her college degree.

(3) The unemployment numbers may count part-time work. The guy who's seriously underemployed and only working 10 hours/week still counts as "employed" even though we know he's probably poor.

(4) The unemployment numbers don't tell us about underemployment. You know that smart guy with the Ph.D. in Chemistry who works 65 hours/week as a postdoctoral research (a "postdoc") without any benefits or job security on a 2-year gypsy scientist position for a mere $30,000/year (!!!)? (This comes after 10 years of college education.) He's employed too as far as the unemployment numbers are concerned! You know that guy with the bachelor's degree who could only find work for $8/hour as a cashier at the local office supply store? He's "employed" too as far as the unemployment numbers are concerned.

(5) It's possible that people who work multiple jobs might count as multiple employed people in the unemployment numbers. So, when the impoverished mother of three who works three jobs is counted, even though she can barely support herself and her family on her three jobs, she counts as (ta-da) three employed people!

As a result, of the above, the real unemployment number is a multiple of the reported "unemployment" number. So, if the unemployment number is "5%" the real number is probably more like 25%.

The unemployment number should be changed to only count solid middle class jobs (and better) jobs. That would provide us with a much better indicator of the state of the employment market. The numbers they're reporting for us now are worse than worthless because they are so misleading.

"It's OK everybody! Just watch mindless TV, and take your happy drugs! No unemployment problems here! Ignore all those news reports about layoffs and the logic that underlies the claims of global labor wage arbitrage. Everything is fine! For those of you who feel we have problems, remember, education is the answer! The claim that we need better education is our opiate of the masses, so take your opiate! Ignore those naysayers and get back to work at your McWalmart job. Go to church and pray! Jesus loves you! Everyone get back to doing what you've been-a-doing. See! The unemployment number is measely 4.5%! We have full employment!"

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

LOL, the DJIA and unemployment are back to where they were it when Bush took office??? Sure wish I could say that about the budjet/deficit.

THE MYTH OF THE UNEMPLOYMENT NUMBERS:

What people don't realize about the unemployment numbers...is that they are heavily politicized numbers that do not necessarily reflect reality.

(1) The numbers do not tell us what kinds of jobs people work. An upper middle class job counts just as much as a poverty-wage job. Did you know that people in third world countries work too? It's quite possible to have 5% unemployment with the majority of the populace being working poor. They're all employed--they're just working poor. (Don't like the low wage? We'll ship your job to China.) So,

95% employment at poverty wage jobs = 5% unemployment. (Yippee!)

and

95% employment at solid middle class jobs = 5% unemployment. (OMG, it looks the same!)

Thus, the unemployment number doesn't tell us all that much about the actual state of the job market or people's standard of living. It doesn't tell us whether we're still a first world country or whether we're descending to third world status.

(2) The unemployment numbers often purposely ignore people who have "dropped out" of the job market. These are people who want to work but often can't find anything other than poverty wage jobs. You'd more or less refer to them as being unemployed if you knew them personally. So, the laid-off 57 year old MBA who suffers age discrimination and who concludes that he might as well just retire early and live frugally off of his savings rather than work at McWalmart is not "unemployed" according to the data even though he'd like to work at a job that's appropriate to his abilities. The college-educated guy who's been searching for a middle class job for over a year might be regarded as having "dropped out" of the labor force--so he doesn't count as unemployed. The college-educated mother of two who decides that it makes more economic sense to be a housewife because she can't find anything better than a $7/hour job also doesn't count as unemployed even though she'd gladly take a job that paid a wage commensurate to the value of her college degree.

(3) The unemployment numbers may count part-time work. The guy who's seriously underemployed and only working 10 hours/week still counts as "employed" even though we know he's probably poor.

(4) The unemployment numbers don't tell us about underemployment. You know that smart guy with the Ph.D. in Chemistry who works 65 hours/week as a postdoctoral research (a "postdoc") without any benefits or job security on a 2-year gypsy scientist position for a mere $30,000/year (!!!)? (This comes after 10 years of college education.) He's employed too as far as the unemployment numbers are concerned! You know that guy with the bachelor's degree who could only find work for $8/hour as a cashier at the local office supply store? He's "employed" too as far as the unemployment numbers are concerned.

(5) It's possible that people who work multiple jobs might count as multiple employed people in the unemployment numbers. So, when the impoverished mother of three who works three jobs is counted, even though she can barely support herself and her family on her three jobs, she counts as (ta-da) three employed people!

As a result, of the above, the real unemployment number is a multiple of the reported "unemployment" number. So, if the unemployment number is "5%" the real number is probably more like 25%.

The unemployment number should be changed to only count solid middle class jobs (and better) jobs. That would provide us with a much better indicator of the state of the employment market. The numbers they're reporting for us now are worse than worthless because they are so misleading.

"It's OK everybody! Just watch mindless TV, and take your happy drugs! No unemployment problems here! Ignore all those news reports about layoffs and the logic that underlies the claims of global labor wage arbitrage. Everything is fine! For those of you who feel we have problems, remember, education is the answer! The claim that we need better education is our opiate of the masses, so take your opiate! Ignore those naysayers and get back to work at your McWalmart job. Go to church and pray! Jesus loves you! Everyone get back to doing what you've been-a-doing. See! The unemployment number is measely 4.5%! We have full employment!"

I realize this, but thanks for pointing it out for others to see. I don't see how anyone with a lick of sense in there head can think we are better off now then we were 6 years ago. Anybody saying we are is either a fool or a tool.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Sorry about that, 1EZduzit. My response was primarily aimed at Don Rodriguez. I fixed the quote in the post.