Originally posted by: sumyungai
<q>We are now in Iraq with over 25 THOUSAND U.S. casualties and over 2000 U.S. deaths... Terrorism around the world has SPIKED tremendously since we invaded... 10s of people die every day in Iraq. </q>
What war do you know of with less casualties than this besides the cold war?
<q>What was the correct solution? THe correct solution would have been to do a MUCH BETTER job in Afghanistan and to have stayed focused on Bin Laden. If you have not done so, please read books on how Afghanistan was undertaken. It was a strategical and military disaster in which we let people in CAVES escape accross the borders of Afghanistan. Iraq had the most progressive rights for women out of all of the muslim countries... now, their rights are worse off. More Iraqis have died in the last 4 years than Saddam had killed in the previous decade.
</q>
People complain we are spending too much money on the war. Yet, you want us to have more troops on the ground which would cost more money.
And again, if we capture or killed Bin Laden, does it change how the fanatics feel about us?
Women have less rights in Iraq now than before? What rights have been taken away?
Again, Saddam was never at war with Iraq. We are, therefore more people would die now than during Saddam's rule. That is the price of war.
I think we are not seeing eye to eye because you don't see the problem yet. Question is, why is the world being terrorized by these fanatics? Why do they hate us? Once you find that answer, you will understand that the problem lies much broader than Afghanistan.
<q>The next move should have been to secure our borders make sure MORE THAN 5% of IMPORTS ARE INSPECTED! We should be adding policemen/firemen instead of CUTTING THEM from our states. We should have created a COMPREHENSIVE PLAN to deal with any terrorist disasters. Instead of a plan, we had an AWFUL organizational response to Katrina, something that we knew would happen DAYS BEFOREHAND! </q>
You want imports inspected? Inspectors, policemen, firemen, etc all costs money and people are already criticizing Bush for spending too much. What to do?
Katrina is FEMA's responsiblity, no? But hey, it's cool to blame Bush. I had a flat tire the other day. Damn Bush had something to do with it I tell ya.
<q>Since these BASIC issues have not been addressed, we are left with terrorist attacks spiking around the world, American rights being trampled, fear being used for political purposes only(day before the democratic convention anyone?), Al Qaeda membership spiking, governments around the world are now against us, Hamas has been given power in Palestine(partially due to Arab backlash to the occupation of Iraq), one trillion more dollars in debt, an abandment by the U.S. of the U.N., and ports being sold to companies with KNOWN TERRORIST LINKS TO 9/11!</q>
Are you after child porn? Are you doing something illegal? I don't, so I don't worry if they know whats in my emails or know what sites I visit. Basically, if your not doing something wrong, what are you afraid the NSA from finding?
Al Qaeda membership spiking? Do you have the membership lists? I'm sure you have something valuable to the US.
So if we hadn't attacked Iraq, Arabs wouldn't have supported Hamas? Are you kidding me?
<q>Would you like me to continue? Do you HONESTLY believe we are safer? How aloof are you? Take a look around...</q>
Please continue, I find these very amusing.
Edit. How does this quote thing work again?
Oh my god, there is so much ignorance here...
The war lasted a week or 2... those casualties are from occupation.
"Are you after child porn? Are you doing something illegal? I don't, so I don't worry if they know whats in my emails or know what sites I visit. Basically, if your not doing something wrong, what are you afraid the NSA from finding? "
The pure ignorance, stupidity, and sheepness of this response is so above and beyond.. I just don't know where to begin. THE BILL OF RIGHTS IS NOT UP FOR NEGOTIATION. If you are WILLING TO GIVE UP YOUR RIGHTS AS AN AMERICAN CITIZEN YOU DO NOT DESERVE TO BE ONE!
"Women have less rights in Iraq now than before? What rights have been taken away?"
How about you take the time to do some research instead of making yourself look foolish.
"Al Qaeda membership spiking? Do you have the membership lists? I'm sure you have something valuable to the US.
So if we hadn't attacked Iraq, Arabs wouldn't have supported Hamas? Are you kidding me?
"
Did you even read what I said? The membership has SPIKED SINCE THE INVASION OF IRAQ. That is the point there. Try answering again. And for god's sake, read before responding.
"<q>The next move should have been to secure our borders make sure MORE THAN 5% of IMPORTS ARE INSPECTED! We should be adding policemen/firemen instead of CUTTING THEM from our states. We should have created a COMPREHENSIVE PLAN to deal with any terrorist disasters. Instead of a plan, we had an AWFUL organizational response to Katrina, something that we knew would happen DAYS BEFOREHAND! </q>
You want imports inspected? Inspectors, policemen, firemen, etc all costs money and people are already criticizing Bush for spending too much. What to do?
Katrina is FEMA's responsiblity, no? But hey, it's cool to blame Bush. I had a flat tire the other day. Damn Bush had something to do with it I tell ya."
It costs money.. If we spent 1 trillion dollars here, it would make a huge difference. money spent on the American people, not in an occupation of a foreign country which has nothing to protect us.
As for FEMA, you miss the point completely. We as a country HAVE NOT REFORMED OUR METHODS FOR RESPONDING TO EMERGENCIES! Don't you think that it should be a priority for Bush, as PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES and his ADMINISTRATION to umm, duh, I don't know... actually ENSURE THAT WE COULD RESPOND TO EMERGENCIES AND ATTACKS AFTER 9/11!? Gee, who would have thunk it! But, as you say, why should we blame Bush?
"
I think we are not seeing eye to eye because you don't see the problem yet. Question is, why is the world being terrorized by these fanatics? Why do they hate us? Once you find that answer, you will understand that the problem lies much broader than Afghanistan."
You think occupying a nation that doesn't want us there helps identify these problems? The problem is that we CONTINUE TO INTERFERE WITH THEM, and occupying Iraq only REINFORCES THEIR HATRED OF US. Please tell me how occupying Iraq helps identify these problems. Please tell me how 1 trillion dollars and 100000 lives lost was a better way to spend our money than my suggestions...
"You want imports inspected? Inspectors, policemen, firemen, etc all costs money and people are already criticizing Bush for spending too much. What to do?"
People criticize Bush for spending it ON IRAQIS INSTEAD OF AMERICAN CITIZENS WHILE SIMULTANEOUSLY CUTTING OUR FORCES OF POLICEMEN/PORT SECURITY/BORDER PATROLS... NO ONE would criticize Bush for spending it IN AMERICA!
"Again, Saddam was never at war with Iraq. We are, therefore more people would die now than during Saddam's rule. That is the price of war."
Saddam killed his own people.. we have caused more death in Iraq in 3 years than Saddam did in 2. We have not been at war in Iraq for 3 years now buddy... We went into war and it lasted 2-3 weeks... we are AN OCCUPYING FORCE NOW. You just dodged the whole point.. dodge!
"Please continue, I find these very amusing. "
I find it amusing that yo uare willing to give up your rights declared in our BILL OF RIGHTS and you trust the government to use it honjorably without any checks and balances to secure this. There hasn't been any corrupt president/administration willing to abuse these powers before right?(Umm, Nixon).
I think you need to read some history books of how Nazi Germany came about. Slowly they took away one right after another. Read animal Farm. Are you saying that your thoughts are somehow more enlightened as Jefferson?
he right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated
the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution
Those willing to give up a little liberty for a little security deserve neither security nor liberty.
Benjamin Franklin
I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
Thomas Jefferson to Archibald Stuart, 1791. ME 8:276
What county can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that its people preserve the spirit of resistance.
Thomas Jefferson
t is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. We hold this prudent jealousy to be the first duty of citizens and one of the noblest characteristics of the late Revolution. The freemen of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise and entangled the question in precedents. They saw all the consequences in the principle, and they avoided the consequences by denying the principle. We revere this lesson too much ... to forget it.
James Madison
They came for the communists, and I did not speak up because I wasn't a communist;
They came for the socialists, and I did not speak up because I was not a socialist;
They came for the union leaders, and I did not speak up because I wasn't a union leader;
They came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak up for me.
Martin Niemoller, 1892-1984
As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all must be most aware of change in the air however slight lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness.
William O. Douglas, Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court
Hope you found those quotes amusing. If you are willing to give up your rights, perhaps you should find a country without the freedoms that Americans have fought so hard to secure over the last 200+ years...
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