Why should Iran be disallowed to have nukes?

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: rickn
point 1. what is the point of this thread? there is no proof that Iran is seeking nuclear weapons.

point 2. some question why they want nuclear power when they got so much oil and gas. It's simple math and capitalism. the more oil and gas they don't use themselves the more they can sell to the world for $$$$ besides, Tehran is a filthy, smoggy city, maybe they want to clean it up a bit. Maybe they want to advance themselves in the medical field. there are many reasons for nuclear research. they want to be self-sufficient in ths field, there is nothing wrong with that, and they have every right under the NPT to enrich uranium.

point 3. I am not any less comfortable with Iran having a nuclear weapon than I am pakistan, a country run by a dictator and filled with schools teaching their children the best way to blow up an American.

:thumbsup:

America has constantly said Iran has no rights to aqquire nuclear weapons and must be stopped. They have also labelled Iran as an axis of evil. I challenge those assumptions and the self-given right of America to decide who gets nukes and who doesnt.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: daniel49
* Killing thousands in Iraq and Afghanistan in peace?

* The Americans can let the Russians, Chinese, Indians, Pakistanis, Turkuish and CIR goverments handle this issue.

* Who gave irresponsible america the right to decide who is responsible and who is not. Because this responsiblity cannot be proved, Iran has as much right to nukes as Israel.

Much has to do witht he attitude of the government toward others.
Iraq handling has been a mistake; however, the stated goasl was to never destroy/wipe out the country. just to remove the government that was issing threads (even thought after thefact, proven empty).

Afganistan was to remove a government that was harboring the people determined to be responsible for 9/11 (unles you wish to believe the tin-foil crowd).

The other countries that you reference have a NIBY/not my problem attitude becuase Iran's rhetoric is not directed toward them or their allies.

The US/Western attitude is that appeasement will never work, the line must be drawn early.

The overall issue is based on the attitude/rhetoric of the government of IRan toward others as well as it support of terrorism.

The Iranian government has choosen to present a hostile attitude toward the world for the past 30 years; their actions have shown over that time that they have the desire and capability to execute some of that rhetoric.

That is why the world needs to be nervous about them have nukes. Countries that have a track record should be taken at their word, until otherwise proven.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Much has to do witht he attitude of the government toward others.
Iraq handling has been a mistake; however, the stated goasl was to never destroy/wipe out the country. just to remove the government that was issing threads (even thought after thefact, proven empty).

Afganistan was to remove a government that was harboring the people determined to be responsible for 9/11 (unles you wish to believe the tin-foil crowd).

The other countries that you reference have a NIBY/not my problem attitude becuase Iran's rhetoric is not directed toward them or their allies.

The US/Western attitude is that appeasement will never work, the line must be drawn early.

The overall issue is based on the attitude/rhetoric of the government of IRan toward others as well as it support of terrorism.

The Iranian government has choosen to present a hostile attitude toward the world for the past 30 years; their actions have shown over that time that they have the desire and capability to execute some of that rhetoric.

That is why the world needs to be nervous about them have nukes. Countries that have a track record should be taken at their word, until otherwise proven.

So removing a government illegally based on untrue assumptions is better than destroying a country? Do you really beleive Iraq's new government will be better than puppets at the hands of America? You are kneive if you really think that. Iran states, Israel wants to wipe out the muslim world. Even if it proven "empty", a war against Israel will be as justified as America's war on Iraq.

Please define "the world". I refuse to accept America and Europe as "the world" And id you mention them as a threat to the world, the world includes Russia, China, India, Pakistan, Turkey, and the CIS. If they felt Iran was a threat to them, they would already have done something about it.

 

[rudder]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Thats your POV. My opinion is the world needs to change in order to coexist with Islam. Islam is not going anywhere. And until the US does not accept Islam as its equal, there will be no peace.

So how does the world need to change in order to coexist with Islam? And how can a country compare itself with a religion?

EDIT: I see you answered on part of the question:

Islam is not solely a religion. It is a major political force. If you go back to WW1, Islam was a state. Since then it has been split up due to weak leadership and external pressure. But obviously it has no future unless it gets it act back together and reunite.

But how does Islam unite? Which sect gets to be in charge?

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: rudder

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Thats your POV. My opinion is the world needs to change in order to coexist with Islam. Islam is not going anywhere. And until the US does not accept Islam as its equal, there will be no peace.

So how does the world need to change in order to coexist with Islam? And how can a country compare itself with a religion?

EDIT: I see you answered on part of the question:

Islam is not solely a religion. It is a major political force. If you go back to WW1, Islam was a state. Since then it has been split up due to weak leadership and external pressure. But obviously it has no future unless it gets it act back together and reunite.

But how does Islam unite? Which sect gets to be in charge?

The world needs to respect Islam as a religion. It will be difficuilt now especially since the terrorists called themseleves muslims. And I beleive it has to respect Islam's right to exist as a state. Democracy is not neccasarily the best form of governance. And Bush has no right to impose demoracy in any sovereign country. The majority is NOT always right. The people are NOT always right. America has no right to interfere in the way of governance of Islamic countries.

Illegal Guamtanomo prisoners should be freed.
Wearing scarves at public schools should not be illegal.
All Islamic traditions must be respected. Islamic sentiments must be respecting.
A passport with the religion "Islam" should not be scrutinized any more than one without a religion.
Muslims lives must be given as much respect as American lives.
The cultural differences between the two must be recognized by both sides.
Economic upliftment is necassary I beleive to regain muslim trust.
And most importantly, the US of A must NOT interfere in middle east politics. By doing this all the Americans are doing is fueling Muslim fury against them.


The differences between sects is the only reason keeping Islam from glory (achieved in previous empires). But even achieving a losely based Islamic federation would make it a global political and economic power to be reckoned with, much like the EU.

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: daniel49

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: daniel49

*comparing Isreal to Iran is rediculous.
*Giving Iran the bomb is akin to giving a 1 year old a loaded colt 45.
*Pakistan rouge scientist is thought to be reason Iran is so close , who has Iran shared the info with?
*Population a few thousand...lol where did you get your education, Conjur U?
*North Korea is a threat as well and should be handled diplomatically as well if some other nations would get some guts.
*Iran has about as much need for Nuclear energy as Fat Albert has for a BigMac.
*Because if enough kids on the block have M80's one of them is going to set the neighborhood on fire.

Iran and Israel are both soverign countries. Why are the different and why should they be treated as such?

Why should NK be treated differently from Iran when clearly NK already has a NW.

Fat albert has as much of a right to eat a Big Mac as Skinny Berry does. Its about rights, not need.

*because ones main goal is to live in peace the others main goal is to wipe same out.
*because we cannot turn back the clock....I would prefer diplomatic pressure on both fronts. But China and Russia have there own agenda and pacifist europe is to busy placating.
*nuclear weapons are not a right they are a responsability.

* American Killing thousands in Iraq and Afghanistan is peace? Even they do not deserve nukes. And with hundreds of politicals prisoners, scores of innocent palestenians being killed on a daily bais, a wall that is the furthest barrier from "peace" is not peace!!

* The Americans can let the Russians, Chinese, Indians, Pakistanis, Turkuish and CIR goverments handle this issue.

* Who gave irresponsible america the right to decide who is responsible and who is not? Becuase this responsiblity cannot be proved, Iran has as much right to nukes as Israel.

* you just switched mid stream again we were talking about Iran and Isreal.
* that would be nice if the did handle it..what makes you think they don't enjoy doing nothing so someone else has to handle it also?
*Your right we should not pass Go or collect 200 dollers...lets surrender all our nukes to the palistines
*If you despise America and all she stands for , you really should leave it, because you deserve to live in some 3rd world rathole with no rights run by a bunch of mullahs.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: daniel49

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: daniel49

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: daniel49

*comparing Isreal to Iran is rediculous.
*Giving Iran the bomb is akin to giving a 1 year old a loaded colt 45.
*Pakistan rouge scientist is thought to be reason Iran is so close , who has Iran shared the info with?
*Population a few thousand...lol where did you get your education, Conjur U?
*North Korea is a threat as well and should be handled diplomatically as well if some other nations would get some guts.
*Iran has about as much need for Nuclear energy as Fat Albert has for a BigMac.
*Because if enough kids on the block have M80's one of them is going to set the neighborhood on fire.

Iran and Israel are both soverign countries. Why are the different and why should they be treated as such?

Why should NK be treated differently from Iran when clearly NK already has a NW.

Fat albert has as much of a right to eat a Big Mac as Skinny Berry does. Its about rights, not need.

*because ones main goal is to live in peace the others main goal is to wipe same out.
*because we cannot turn back the clock....I would prefer diplomatic pressure on both fronts. But China and Russia have there own agenda and pacifist europe is to busy placating.
*nuclear weapons are not a right they are a responsability.

* American Killing thousands in Iraq and Afghanistan is peace? Even they do not deserve nukes. And with hundreds of politicals prisoners, scores of innocent palestenians being killed on a daily bais, a wall that is the furthest barrier from "peace" is not peace!!

* The Americans can let the Russians, Chinese, Indians, Pakistanis, Turkuish and CIR goverments handle this issue.

* Who gave irresponsible america the right to decide who is responsible and who is not? Becuase this responsiblity cannot be proved, Iran has as much right to nukes as Israel.

* you just switched mid stream again we were talking about Iran and Isreal.
* that would be nice if the did handle it..what makes you think they don't enjoy doing nothing so someone else has to handle it also?
*Your right we should not pass Go or collect 200 dollers...lets surrender all our nukes to the palistines
*If you despise America and all she stands for , you really should leave it, because you deserve to live in some 3rd world rathole with no rights run by a bunch of mullahs.

I just proved American is as bad as an aggresive (against Israel) Iran. But nobody seems to do anything about that.

Obviously they donot see Iran as a threat to them.

I would rather see nuclear weapons being destroyed altogether.

Obviously you have not seen my profile. Im not American. And just becuase I am not american, does not mean I don't deserve lights or any other facilities that Americans get.

 

[TheBDB]

I thought the UN/IAEA said Iran should not have nuclear weapons, not just the US.

 

[rickn]

Originally posted by: TheBDB
I thought the UN/IAEA said Iran should not have nuclear weapons, not just the US.

it's pretty universal that noboby wants them to have nuclear weapons. what the IAEA has said is they have no proof that Iran is building nuclear weapons. they could be, or they may not be. Were's the proof? Enriching uranium and operating nuclear facilites totally under IEAI safeguards is not proof. Granted, they withheld a lot of their nuclear research from the world, but look at all the hoopla surrounding it now. they get threatened with War...is there any wonder they kept it a secret? And the Russians taught them everything, why aren't we attacking Russia? China and Russia are huge nuclear proliferators.

 

[TheBDB]

Originally posted by: rickn

Originally posted by: TheBDB
I thought the UN/IAEA said Iran should not have nuclear weapons, not just the US.

it's pretty universal that noboby wants them to have nuclear weapons. what the IAEA has said is they have no proof that Iran is building nuclear weapons. they could be, or they may not be. Were's the proof? Enriching uranium and operating nuclear facilites totally under IEAI safeguards is not proof. Granted, they withheld a lot of their nuclear research from the world, but look at all the hoopla surrounding it now. they get threatened with War...is there any wonder they kept it a secret? And the Russians taught them everything, why aren't we attacking Russia? China and Russia are huge nuclear proliferators.

Those are valid points, but my comment was more about the OP and his comments about Israel and the US. If the UN says Iran shouldn't have nuclear weapons, is that good enough?

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: TheBDB
I thought the UN/IAEA said Iran should not have nuclear weapons, not just the US.

The UN is merely a way of justifying US actions. With the five nation veto rule, the UN is no more than a joke when it comes to resolving conflicts. Was it able to prevent the Iraq war?

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: piasabird
The Third reason is they sell arms and ammunition to the palestinians, and they support terrorism.

If you think Iran will not use a nuclear weapon or sell it to the palestinians, then maybe you live in a fantasy world.

Is that so very wrong?

dude your statements scare me. i have read all your post and this one stands out. to me you are no different than the 9/11 hijackers. you are filled with nothing but hate and your mind is filled with nothing but violence. you hate Isreal and America, and from what you have implied in other post you would love for the whole world to be under Islam law. You are not for freedom, in fact you are borderline taliban.

Iran should not have nukes period. their president is a complete psycho who want nothing more than to blow up Isreal and kill every last Jew on the planet. This guy is just itching for a fight and if he keeps it up he is going to get one. and after the dust has settled and Iran is no more with hundreds of thousands dead you will just come back here and say how evil Isreal and America is.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: piasabird
The Third reason is they sell arms and ammunition to the palestinians, and they support terrorism.

If you think Iran will not use a nuclear weapon or sell it to the palestinians, then maybe you live in a fantasy world.

Is that so very wrong?

dude your statements scare me. i have read all your post and this one stands out. to me you are no different than the 9/11 hijackers. you are filled with nothing but hate and your mind is filled with nothing but violence. you hate Isreal and America, and from what you have implied in other post you would love for the whole world to be under Islam law. You are not for freedom, in fact you are borderline taliban.

Iran should not have nukes period. their president is a complete psycho who want nothing more than to blow up Isreal and kill every last Jew on the planet. This guy is just itching for a fight and if he keeps it up he is going to get one. and after the dust has settled and Iran is no more with hundreds of thousands dead you will just come back here and say how evil Isreal and America is.

I made a mistake. I should have underlined the bit where pissabird says "sell it to the palestinians"

Give me one reason why Palestenians should not have the same weapons from its ally that Israel gets from its? I do not and have NEVER advocated killing innocent souls. I condenm all terrorism. I condenm American bombing of innocent civilans in the same way. Hard for me to see a difference.

I would NEVER support a nuclear weapon being used for offensive OR DEFENSIVE purposes by ANY country no matter how many theorical lives it may save.

If it still scares you, you will be shocked to learn that half of the world thinks like I do. The taliban were illiterate idiots. I am shocked with someone comparing me to them.

The iranian president has in no place mentioned he wants to kill all living jews. Stop assuming stuff. Thats the biggest mistake many make.

The world needs to get rid of nukes, and the best example America can make is by doing it by themselves.

Does anyone really think that America on its own cannot take out Iranian Nukes without nukes of their own. America does not need nukes in this age.

America does not need Nukes becuase of China, Iran, Russia or any other country. All nukes do is destroy people.

 

[ajf3]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Let me make this clear. American lives are NOT more important that Iraqi or Iranian lives!

To Americans they are... luckily, were in a position to make that decision.

...because our President is the decider. Period.

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: daniel49

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: daniel49

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: daniel49

*comparing Isreal to Iran is rediculous.
*Giving Iran the bomb is akin to giving a 1 year old a loaded colt 45.
*Pakistan rouge scientist is thought to be reason Iran is so close , who has Iran shared the info with?
*Population a few thousand...lol where did you get your education, Conjur U?
*North Korea is a threat as well and should be handled diplomatically as well if some other nations would get some guts.
*Iran has about as much need for Nuclear energy as Fat Albert has for a BigMac.
*Because if enough kids on the block have M80's one of them is going to set the neighborhood on fire.

Iran and Israel are both soverign countries. Why are the different and why should they be treated as such?

Why should NK be treated differently from Iran when clearly NK already has a NW.

Fat albert has as much of a right to eat a Big Mac as Skinny Berry does. Its about rights, not need.

*because ones main goal is to live in peace the others main goal is to wipe same out.
*because we cannot turn back the clock....I would prefer diplomatic pressure on both fronts. But China and Russia have there own agenda and pacifist europe is to busy placating.
*nuclear weapons are not a right they are a responsability.

* American Killing thousands in Iraq and Afghanistan is peace? Even they do not deserve nukes. And with hundreds of politicals prisoners, scores of innocent palestenians being killed on a daily bais, a wall that is the furthest barrier from "peace" is not peace!!

* The Americans can let the Russians, Chinese, Indians, Pakistanis, Turkuish and CIR goverments handle this issue.

* Who gave irresponsible america the right to decide who is responsible and who is not? Becuase this responsiblity cannot be proved, Iran has as much right to nukes as Israel.

* you just switched mid stream again we were talking about Iran and Isreal.
* that would be nice if the did handle it..what makes you think they don't enjoy doing nothing so someone else has to handle it also?
*Your right we should not pass Go or collect 200 dollers...lets surrender all our nukes to the palistines
*If you despise America and all she stands for , you really should leave it, because you deserve to live in some 3rd world rathole with no rights run by a bunch of mullahs.

No, I have not looked at your profile, but now that I have all your moronic posts make sense.
P.S. Is Osama hiding under your bed?

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
As long as Israel is not disarmed of nukes, there is no reason why Iran should not be allowed to have them. Its pretty stupid letting Israel with a population of only a few thousand to be dominating the whole of the ME. What does the US want? Israel to be the only viable force in the ME? Iraq out and now Iran being the next target?

What about North Korea? Are nukes with them any less dangerous than Nukes in the hand of the Iranians? What about the Americans themselves. Would the Americans not use Nukes if their sovereignty was threatened? Why should Iran not be able to secure its sovereignity with nuclear weapons?

I see no reason why Iran should not be allowed to have nukes especially when Israel, India and Pakistan already have them. If the USA real wants to rid Iran of nukes, it must create an example by disarming Israel first!

Because Iran has called for the destruction of Israel twice. No more reason is needed.

Israel's existence is already illegal.

It's legal according to the U.N., of which Iran is a member.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
As long as Israel is not disarmed of nukes, there is no reason why Iran should not be allowed to have them. Its pretty stupid letting Israel with a population of only a few thousand to be dominating the whole of the ME. What does the US want? Israel to be the only viable force in the ME? Iraq out and now Iran being the next target?

What about North Korea? Are nukes with them any less dangerous than Nukes in the hand of the Iranians? What about the Americans themselves. Would the Americans not use Nukes if their sovereignty was threatened? Why should Iran not be able to secure its sovereignity with nuclear weapons?

I see no reason why Iran should not be allowed to have nukes especially when Israel, India and Pakistan already have them. If the USA real wants to rid Iran of nukes, it must create an example by disarming Israel first!

Because Iran has called for the destruction of Israel twice. No more reason is needed.

Israel's existence is already illegal.

It's legal according to the U.N., of which Iran is a member.

Well except those 32 countries that do not recognize it.

Kinda dumb though, there are a lot of settlers now some that have been there generations.

Ahh immigration analogys...
It's like if the Mexicans crept in over the border, once they got settled in walled off NYC and LA then later on in another war annexed Chicago from the Americans and still wanting more.

You can kinda see why the world is annoyed with Israel.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
As long as Israel is not disarmed of nukes, there is no reason why Iran should not be allowed to have them. Its pretty stupid letting Israel with a population of only a few thousand to be dominating the whole of the ME. What does the US want? Israel to be the only viable force in the ME? Iraq out and now Iran being the next target?

What about North Korea? Are nukes with them any less dangerous than Nukes in the hand of the Iranians? What about the Americans themselves. Would the Americans not use Nukes if their sovereignty was threatened? Why should Iran not be able to secure its sovereignity with nuclear weapons?

I see no reason why Iran should not be allowed to have nukes especially when Israel, India and Pakistan already have them. If the USA real wants to rid Iran of nukes, it must create an example by disarming Israel first!

Because Iran has called for the destruction of Israel twice. No more reason is needed.

Israel's existence is already illegal.

It's legal according to the U.N., of which Iran is a member.

Well except those 32 countries that do not recognize it.

Kinda dumb though, there are a lot of settlers now some that have been there generations.

Ahh immigration analogys...
It's like if the Mexicans crept in over the border, once they got settled in walled off NYC and LA then later on in another war annexed Chicago from the Americans and still wanting more.

You can kinda see why the world is annoyed with Israel.

How accurate is that map?

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: ajf3

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Let me make this clear. American lives are NOT more important that Iraqi or Iranian lives!

To Americans they are... luckily, were in a position to make that decision.

...because our President is the decider. Period.

And then they expect the rest of the world to not hate them.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: daniel49

Originally posted by: daniel49

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: daniel49

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: daniel49

*comparing Isreal to Iran is rediculous.
*Giving Iran the bomb is akin to giving a 1 year old a loaded colt 45.
*Pakistan rouge scientist is thought to be reason Iran is so close , who has Iran shared the info with?
*Population a few thousand...lol where did you get your education, Conjur U?
*North Korea is a threat as well and should be handled diplomatically as well if some other nations would get some guts.
*Iran has about as much need for Nuclear energy as Fat Albert has for a BigMac.
*Because if enough kids on the block have M80's one of them is going to set the neighborhood on fire.

Iran and Israel are both soverign countries. Why are the different and why should they be treated as such?

Why should NK be treated differently from Iran when clearly NK already has a NW.

Fat albert has as much of a right to eat a Big Mac as Skinny Berry does. Its about rights, not need.

*because ones main goal is to live in peace the others main goal is to wipe same out.
*because we cannot turn back the clock....I would prefer diplomatic pressure on both fronts. But China and Russia have there own agenda and pacifist europe is to busy placating.
*nuclear weapons are not a right they are a responsability.

* American Killing thousands in Iraq and Afghanistan is peace? Even they do not deserve nukes. And with hundreds of politicals prisoners, scores of innocent palestenians being killed on a daily bais, a wall that is the furthest barrier from "peace" is not peace!!

* The Americans can let the Russians, Chinese, Indians, Pakistanis, Turkuish and CIR goverments handle this issue.

* Who gave irresponsible america the right to decide who is responsible and who is not? Becuase this responsiblity cannot be proved, Iran has as much right to nukes as Israel.

* you just switched mid stream again we were talking about Iran and Isreal.
* that would be nice if the did handle it..what makes you think they don't enjoy doing nothing so someone else has to handle it also?
*Your right we should not pass Go or collect 200 dollers...lets surrender all our nukes to the palistines
*If you despise America and all she stands for , you really should leave it, because you deserve to live in some 3rd world rathole with no rights run by a bunch of mullahs.

No, I have not looked at your profile, but now that I have all your moronic posts make sense.
P.S. Is Osama hiding under your bed?

Is that all you have to say? :disgust:

Americans who think they are better than anybody else are not worth much.