Why should Iran be disallowed to have nukes?

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Goo

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Goo

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

What about North Korea?

First I respected most members to keep it on topic, not very offen in P/N.

I just want to add I think the main reason US is no bombing NK is because there are 2 high power beside NK in China and Russia plus a few very importants like SK and Japan. Image US bombing right between those 4. US can play around with ME because they don't have the ability to strike back but China and Russia can.

Russia is not going to defend NK, there is no advantage in it for them. The Chinese might get involved if we rolled up to their border again like in 1950.

The reason we don't do anything to NK is that our main goal in the area is to protect SK lives and independence . Getting into another shooting war on the peninsula that would certianly involve a huge number of civilian casulties (and now possisbly include nuclear weapons) is not wanted by anyone.

First, SK is alot more advance country than NK, they have enough fire power to protect themself. They don't need US.
Second, US have alot concerns about bombing NK
-Any Military action in the area will trigger Japan about their army request.
-GWB can't affort a new shooting war as Nov is coming.
-China and Russia will not allow US bombing with a few hundred km from their border, they can be a PR nightmate.
-NK don't have anything US want, ala oil.
-Every countries in the area is doing good and have a very good balance, there is no space for US.

SK is a ton more advanced than NK. NK just has a lot more troops since their national focus is their military. SK would most likely not be able to stop the initial attack and a large chunk of SK's civillan population would end up in the war zone. Remaning close allies with the US affords them a great deal of protection.

With China's growing military and attempts to project influence, none of our asian allies want want us to leave the region anymore. The Japanese protests to US military presence have all but stopped and even Vietnam is interested in military ties with the US (talk about a crazy world).

I'll say it again: Russia dosen't give a crap what happens to NK. The Chinese might care a little since it can use NK to wring some concessions out of Washington, otherwise they are more trouble than they are worth.

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
As long as Israel is not disarmed of nukes, there is no reason why Iran should not be allowed to have them. Its pretty stupid letting Israel with a population of only a few thousand to be dominating the whole of the ME. What does the US want? Israel to be the only viable force in the ME? Iraq out and now Iran being the next target?

What about North Korea? Are nukes with them any less dangerous than Nukes in the hand of the Iranians? What about the Americans themselves. Would the Americans not use Nukes if their sovereignty was threatened? Why should Iran not be able to secure its sovereignity with nuclear weapons?

I see no reason why Iran should not be allowed to have nukes especially when Israel, India and Pakistan already have them. If the USA real wants to rid Iran of nukes, it must create an example by disarming Israel first!

*comparing Isreal to Iran is rediculous.
*Giving Iran the bomb is akin to giving a 1 year old a loaded colt 45.
*Pakistan rouge scientist is thought to be reason Iran is so close , who has Iran shared the info with?
*Population a few thousand...lol where did you get your education, Conjur U?
*North Korea is a threat as well and should be handled diplomatically as well if some other nations would get some guts.
*Iran has about as much need for Nuclear energy as Fat Albert has for a BigMac.
*Because if enough kids on the block have M80's one of them is going to set the neighborhood on fire.

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: piasabird
The Third reason is they sell arms and ammunition to the palestinians, and they support terrorism.

If you think Iran will not use a nuclear weapon or sell it to the palestinians, then maybe you live in a fantasy world.

Is that so very wrong?

Its hard to believe there are really people as gullible as you in the world.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: daniel49

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: piasabird
The Third reason is they sell arms and ammunition to the palestinians, and they support terrorism.

If you think Iran will not use a nuclear weapon or sell it to the palestinians, then maybe you live in a fantasy world.

Is that so very wrong?

Its hard to believe there are really people as gullible as you in the world.

If we have no right to prevent our enemies from drawing arms against us, then we have no right to live. Yet Green Bean is clearly advocating the rights of those who want us dead.

 

[Kenazo]

Letting Iran have nukes is like giving a pyromaniac a match.

 

[blackllotus]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Fact 4 - Iraq never said it wanted to attack any other country. An Iranian invasion of Israel will be as justified (or more) than the Iraq invastion. Israel already occupies much of Palestine illegally. Tommorrow, it might decide to invade Lebanon or Egypt.

Israel is a country. Its not occupying Palestine and it is certainly not occupying it illegally (is that even possible?). The Palestinians have no more right to the land than the Israelis (sp?). By your logic the USA should turn over control back to the Native Americans.

 

[blackllotus]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: daniel49

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: piasabird
The Third reason is they sell arms and ammunition to the palestinians, and they support terrorism.

If you think Iran will not use a nuclear weapon or sell it to the palestinians, then maybe you live in a fantasy world.

Is that so very wrong?

Its hard to believe there are really people as gullible as you in the world.

If we have no right to prevent our enemies from drawing arms against us, then we have no right to live. Yet Green Bean is clearly advocating the rights of those who want us dead.

He is also a wacko fundie who hates Isreal

 

[IdioticBuffoon]

Originally posted by: blackllotus
Its not occupying Palestine and it is certainly not occupying it illegally (is that even possible?).

Damn possible! Have you been sleeping for the last 3 years?

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: IdioticBuffoon

Originally posted by: blackllotus
Its not occupying Palestine and it is certainly not occupying it illegally (is that even possible?).

Damn possible! Have you been sleeping for the last 3 years?

The Arab countries took over that section of Palestine that was allotted tothe Palestinians.
The Arab coutnries lost it in wars with Israel.
Now Palestinian want from ISrael, what Israel took from the Arab countries.

Note that the Palestinians never demanded the land back from the Arab countries when they were controlling the area.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: blackllotus

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Fact 4 - Iraq never said it wanted to attack any other country. An Iranian invasion of Israel will be as justified (or more) than the Iraq invastion. Israel already occupies much of Palestine illegally. Tommorrow, it might decide to invade Lebanon or Egypt.

Israel is a country. Its not occupying Palestine and it is certainly not occupying it illegally (is that even possible?). The Palestinians have no more right to the land than the Israelis (sp?). By your logic the USA should turn over control back to the Native Americans.

Native Americans are allowed to vote. 'Nuff Said.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: daniel49

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: piasabird
The Third reason is they sell arms and ammunition to the palestinians, and they support terrorism.

If you think Iran will not use a nuclear weapon or sell it to the palestinians, then maybe you live in a fantasy world.

Is that so very wrong?

Its hard to believe there are really people as gullible as you in the world.

If we have no right to prevent our enemies from drawing arms against us, then we have no right to live. Yet Green Bean is clearly advocating the rights of those who want us dead.

Then Iran has the right to prevent Israel from drawing arms agaisnt them. Israel is as much of a threat to Iran as Iran is to the US. They have no proof.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Yet Green Bean is clearly advocating the rights of those who want us dead.

Is it wrong to advocate the views of my neighbouring country?

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: daniel49

*comparing Isreal to Iran is rediculous.
*Giving Iran the bomb is akin to giving a 1 year old a loaded colt 45.
*Pakistan rouge scientist is thought to be reason Iran is so close , who has Iran shared the info with?
*Population a few thousand...lol where did you get your education, Conjur U?
*North Korea is a threat as well and should be handled diplomatically as well if some other nations would get some guts.
*Iran has about as much need for Nuclear energy as Fat Albert has for a BigMac.
*Because if enough kids on the block have M80's one of them is going to set the neighborhood on fire.

Iran and Israel are both soverign countries. Why are the different and why should they be treated as such?

Why should NK be treated differently from Iran when clearly NK already has a NW.

Fat albert has as much of a right to eat a Big Mac as Skinny Berry does. Its about rights, not need.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Yet Green Bean is clearly advocating the rights of those who want us dead.

Is it wrong to advocate the views of my neighbouring country?

Depends who you want shooting at you.

When it comes to a conflict like this, which could lead to war, both sides obviously believe they are correct and the one who decides it is the last one still alive after they kill each other.

 

[IdioticBuffoon]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: blackllotus
occupying it illegally (is that even possible?).

Here. That should help you out a bit. Think 2003 ... fictitious weapons, gaudy machismo and disastrous results.

And then bring to mind international law.

 

[zugzoog]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: zugzoog

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: maddogchen
Israel lords over the ME how?

Which country in the ME is calling for the destruction of another?

Which ME country exists on the lands of another?

Iran, Iraq, Syria & Turkey.

look up Kurdistan.....

Kurdistan is fiction not fact. It has never existed.

Fair point.

The attempts by the Kurds to establish a homeland have been thwarted ever since the 7th century (by the Arabs) and the 15th century (by the Ottomans), when do they get their independent state?

I presume that you were referring to Palestine in your original comment. A couple of interesting points;
1) Palestine has never existed as an independent nation it only has been a province (under the Ottomans) and a protectorate (under the British and French) after the Turkish loss in WW1. Modern Palestine is currently occupied by Isreal and Jordan . Compare and contrast Kurdistan.

2) Jews have been living in Palestine for quite a long time as well.

No. 238, "Report of the Commerce of Jerusalem During the Year 1863," F.O. 195/808, May 1864. ". . . The population of the City of Jerusalem is computed at 15,000, of whom about 4,500 Moslem, 8,000 Jews, and the rest Christians of various denominations. . ." From A.H. Hyamson, ed., The British Consulate in Jerusalem, 2 vols. (London, 1939-1941), Vol. 2, p. 331.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: zugzoog

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: zugzoog

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: maddogchen
Israel lords over the ME how?

Which country in the ME is calling for the destruction of another?

Which ME country exists on the lands of another?

Iran, Iraq, Syria & Turkey.

look up Kurdistan.....

Kurdistan is fiction not fact. It has never existed.

Fair point.

The attempts by the Kurds to establish a homeland have been thwarted ever since the 7th century (by the Arabs) and the 15th century (by the Ottomans), when do they get their independent state?

I presume that you were referring to Palestine in your original comment. A couple of interesting points;
1) Palestine has never existed as an independent nation it only has been a province (under the Ottomans) and a protectorate (under the British and French) after the Turkish loss in WW1. Modern Palestine is currently occupied by Isreal and Jordan . Compare and contrast Kurdistan.

2) Jews have been living in Palestine for quite a long time as well.

No. 238, "Report of the Commerce of Jerusalem During the Year 1863," F.O. 195/808, May 1864. ". . . The population of the City of Jerusalem is computed at 15,000, of whom about 4,500 Moslem, 8,000 Jews, and the rest Christians of various denominations. . ." From A.H. Hyamson, ed., The British Consulate in Jerusalem, 2 vols. (London, 1939-1941), Vol. 2, p. 331.

Arabs abusing the Palestinians do not count. Only the Jews count as opponents.

 

[Proletariat]

Eagle ^^^^

What that guy said is ridiculous.

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: daniel49

*comparing Isreal to Iran is rediculous.
*Giving Iran the bomb is akin to giving a 1 year old a loaded colt 45.
*Pakistan rouge scientist is thought to be reason Iran is so close , who has Iran shared the info with?
*Population a few thousand...lol where did you get your education, Conjur U?
*North Korea is a threat as well and should be handled diplomatically as well if some other nations would get some guts.
*Iran has about as much need for Nuclear energy as Fat Albert has for a BigMac.
*Because if enough kids on the block have M80's one of them is going to set the neighborhood on fire.

Iran and Israel are both soverign countries. Why are the different and why should they be treated as such?

Why should NK be treated differently from Iran when clearly NK already has a NW.

Fat albert has as much of a right to eat a Big Mac as Skinny Berry does. Its about rights, not need.

*because ones main goal is to live in peace the others main goal is to wipe same out.
*because we cannot turn back the clock....I would prefer diplomatic pressure on both fronts. But China and Russia have there own agenda and pacifist europe is to busy placating.
*nuclear weapons are not a right they are a responsability.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Proletariat
Eagle ^^^^

What that guy said is ridiculous.

At times one must lower oneself to the common denominator to have a chance for explain things.

Like trying to communicate physics to a 1rst grader.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Its a conflict of opinions. Thats why we have wars. This time, the US's opinion is clearly unfair and unjustified.

Clear to whom? Not me... I tend to believe the ideas, principles, and concepts the US is built on and strives to achieve are more moral -ie. beneficial for man- than those of radical Islamic fundamentalism.

And that is your problem right there, pushing ones morals onto another is the problem, look at what it got the native americans in this "moral" country. Same kind of fundamentalist thugs trying to bully others.

You may want to go read a history book, I dont know what country you are in if you think we are not just as bad if not worse throughout history unless your just playing dumb.

The only reason we have the freedoms we have in this country is becasue people stood up to fundies in this country time and time again to fight for every scrap of civil rights.

So your really good at trolling and disguising it as your opinion.....The only reason we have the freedoms we have in this country is becasue people stood up to fundies in this country time and time again to fight for every scrap of civil rights.


Thats not even true at all.
You blame everything on the fundies.
Thats why I like reading what you have to say....you are soo funnyeee!!

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Its a conflict of opinions. Thats why we have wars. This time, the US's opinion is clearly unfair and unjustified.

Clear to whom? Not me... I tend to believe the ideas, principles, and concepts the US is built on and strives to achieve are more moral -ie. beneficial for man- than those of radical Islamic fundamentalism.

And that is your problem right there, pushing ones morals onto another is the problem, look at what it got the native americans in this "moral" country. Same kind of fundamentalist thugs trying to bully others.

You may want to go read a history book, I dont know what country you are in if you think we are not just as bad if not worse throughout history unless your just playing dumb.

The only reason we have the freedoms we have in this country is becasue people stood up to fundies in this country time and time again to fight for every scrap of civil rights.

So your really good at trolling and disguising it as your opinion.....The only reason we have the freedoms we have in this country is becasue people stood up to fundies in this country time and time again to fight for every scrap of civil rights.


Thats not even true at all.
You blame everything on the fundies.
Thats why I like reading what you have to say....you are soo funnyeee!!

Ok, so name one civil rights struggle in american history that the main opponent was not christian leadership.

 

[The Green Bean]

double post.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: daniel49

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: daniel49

*comparing Isreal to Iran is rediculous.
*Giving Iran the bomb is akin to giving a 1 year old a loaded colt 45.
*Pakistan rouge scientist is thought to be reason Iran is so close , who has Iran shared the info with?
*Population a few thousand...lol where did you get your education, Conjur U?
*North Korea is a threat as well and should be handled diplomatically as well if some other nations would get some guts.
*Iran has about as much need for Nuclear energy as Fat Albert has for a BigMac.
*Because if enough kids on the block have M80's one of them is going to set the neighborhood on fire.

Iran and Israel are both soverign countries. Why are the different and why should they be treated as such?

Why should NK be treated differently from Iran when clearly NK already has a NW.

Fat albert has as much of a right to eat a Big Mac as Skinny Berry does. Its about rights, not need.

*because ones main goal is to live in peace the others main goal is to wipe same out.
*because we cannot turn back the clock....I would prefer diplomatic pressure on both fronts. But China and Russia have there own agenda and pacifist europe is to busy placating.
*nuclear weapons are not a right they are a responsability.

* American Killing thousands in Iraq and Afghanistan is peace? Even they do not deserve nukes. And with hundreds of politicals prisoners, scores of innocent palestenians being killed on a daily bais, a wall that is the furthest barrier from "peace" is not peace!!

* The Americans can let the Russians, Chinese, Indians, Pakistanis, Turkuish and CIR goverments handle this issue.

* Who gave irresponsible america the right to decide who is responsible and who is not? Becuase this responsiblity cannot be proved, Iran has as much right to nukes as Israel.

 

[rickn]

point 1. what is the point of this thread? there is no proof that Iran is seeking nuclear weapons.

point 2. some question why they want nuclear power when they got so much oil and gas. It's simple math and capitalism. the more oil and gas they don't use themselves the more they can sell to the world for $$$$ besides, Tehran is a filthy, smoggy city, maybe they want to clean it up a bit. Maybe they want to advance themselves in the medical field. there are many reasons for nuclear research. they want to be self-sufficient in ths field, there is nothing wrong with that, and they have every right under the NPT to enrich uranium.

point 3. I am not any less comfortable with Iran having a nuclear weapon than I am pakistan, a country run by a dictator and filled with schools teaching their children the best way to blow up an American.