Why should Iran be disallowed to have nukes?

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

I beg to differ. Since September 2001, America as killed more innocent civilians than any other regime in the world. Statistics tell us America is the current greatest threat to the world and mankind.

1) Satistics can be made to say almost anything; depends on what ones want to "prove"

2) Much depends on what the definition is chosen for the word innoncent and how you classify them.

I would think that many of the communist/facist regimes during the 1900s removed many more purely innocent civilians.

 

[linkgoron]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: linkgoron

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
As long as Israel is not disarmed of nukes, there is no reason why Iran should not be allowed to have them. Its pretty stupid letting Israel with a population of only a few thousand to be dominating the whole of the ME. What does the US want? Israel to be the only viable force in the ME? Iraq out and now Iran being the next target?

huh? a few thousand?
EDIT: Oh, controling the ME? What are you talking about?

What about North Korea? Are nukes with them any less dangerous than Nukes in the hand of the Iranians? What about the Americans themselves. Would the Americans not use Nukes if their sovereignty was threatened? Why should Iran not be able to secure its sovereignity with nuclear weapons?

Because they don't want to defend themselves. They want to destroy Israel.

Whats illegal about destroying an illegal country through a legal war? Iran beleives than Israel is a threat to the muslim world in the same way that Bush thought OBL, Taliban, Iraq, Saddam, WMDs and Iran are/were a threat to America. They (US) were incorrect on most counts. Bush should be tried for war crimes. Thousands of innocent civilians have been killed by Bush illegally. Just because America is the most powerful country in the world does not give it extra rights to kill people nor does it make them right (as it has been proven).

I see no reason why Iran should not be allowed to have nukes especially when Israel, India and Pakistan already have them. If the USA real wants to rid Iran of nukes, it must create an example by disarming Israel first!

It's not the nukes that are the problems. You don't see Israel threatening to destory other countries. Iran on the other hand does.

Its a conflict of opinions. Thats why we have wars. This time, the US's opinion is clearly unfair and unjustified.

Obviously, the world should bow down to Islam. Why should the world change for Islam? Islam should change for the world. The US isn't trying to kill Islam, but when you've got mad leaders trying to get hold of nukes, and also say that they want to destroy other nations... I can't say they're not a threat to the world...

EDIT: BTW, I obviously meant Iran, and not Islam as a threat to the world.

I beg to differ. Since September 2001, America as killed more innocent civilians than any other regime in the world. Statistics tell us America is the current greatest threat to the world and mankind.

You just don't mind them nuking Israel. Am I wrong?
The Taliban was obviously a threat, Saddam's arrogance was his downfall...
Iran isn't threatened by Israel. The fact that Iran is supporting terrorists, training terrorists, and making nukes. They're the ones that are threatening Israel.

Oh, and Israel is NOT a threat to the Muslim world.

Oh and I guess legal and ilegal has other meaning with your logic. Things are legal when they fit your ideology, and ilegal when they don't?

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: linkgoron
You just don't mind them nuking Israel. Am I wrong?
The Taliban was obviously a threat, Saddam's arrogance was his downfall...

I would not mind Israel being destroyed through a conventional war. How was the Taliban a threat? How was Saddam a threat like the US made him to be? They were wrong all along. Its is ridiculous when a country makes blunders and then checks other countries and tries to stop them from doing what it thinkgs is wrong.

Iran isn't threatened by Israel. The fact that Iran is supporting terrorists, training terrorists, and making nukes. They're the ones that are threatening Israel.

Its obviously not a fact. None of those have been proven.

Oh, and Israel is NOT a threat to the Muslim world.

Thats another conflict of opinions. If America has a right to beleive tha Iran and Iraq (was) is a threat to them, without any basis, then Iran has that right too. The Iraq war has already proved them wrong. There were NO WMDS. Iran has a right to beleive that Israel is a threat to them and wage war against them in the same way the Americans waged war against Saddam Hussain. The only difference is that the Americans have already been proved wrong. The Iranians have not.!

Oh and I guess legal and ilegal has other meaning with your logic. Things are legal when they fit your ideology, and ilegal when they don't?

Thats how the world works. Who said everybody has to follow American law made by mere men?

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: zugzoog

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: maddogchen
Israel lords over the ME how?

Which country in the ME is calling for the destruction of another?

Which ME country exists on the lands of another?

Iran, Iraq, Syria & Turkey.

look up Kurdistan.....

Kurdistan is fiction not fact. It has never existed.

 

[linkgoron]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: linkgoron
You just don't mind them nuking Israel. Am I wrong?
The Taliban was obviously a threat, Saddam's arrogance was his downfall...

I would not mind Israel being destroyed through a conventional war. How was the Taliban a threat? How was Saddam a threat like the US made him to be? They were wrong all along. Its is ridiculous when a country makes blunders and then checks other countries and tries to stop them from doing what it thinkgs is wrong.

Taliban killed thousands of americans?
Saddam was trying to play it cool, and instead of saying "no I don't have weapons of mass destruction" was trying to play it cool, and got owned.
Oh and Saddam killed thousands too...

Iran isn't threatened by Israel. The fact that Iran is supporting terrorists, training terrorists, and making nukes. They're the ones that are threatening Israel.

Its obviously not a fact. None of those have been proven.

Oh, and Israel is NOT a threat to the Muslim world.

Thats another conflict of opinions. If America has a right to beleive tha Iran and Iraq (was) is a threat to them, without any basis, then Iran has that right too. The Iraq war has already proved them wrong. There were NO WMDS. Iran has a right to beleive that Israel is a threat to them and wage war against them in the same way the Americans waged war against Saddam Hussain. The only difference is that the Americans have already been proved wrong. The Iranians have not.!

No its not a conflict of opinion. Israel has no need to attack Iran(offensively), but Iran is just asking for it, after their leaders state every day that they want to destroy Israel. A defensive attack is something different obviously.

Oh and I guess legal and ilegal has other meaning with your logic. Things are legal when they fit your ideology, and ilegal when they don't?

Thats how the world works. Who said everybody has to follow American law made by mere men?

I won't even start...

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: linkgoron

I won't even start...

Yes becuase you have nothing to say.

 

[linkgoron]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: linkgoron

I won't even start...

Yes becuase you have nothing to say.

No, it's obvious that religion has no place in this thread.

 

[The Green Bean]

Taliban killed thousands of americans?
Saddam was trying to play it cool, and instead of saying "no I don't have weapons of mass destruction" was trying to play it cool, and got owned.
Oh and Saddam killed thousands too...

When did the Taliban kill thousands of Americans? Saddam Hussain did publish a report saying he did not have WMDs. Get your facts right. This is not a kintergarden playground that you mention "playing it cool". You cannot kill on the basis of saying that a guy was trying to act too smart. Clearly he was not.

No its not a conflict of opinion. Israel has no need to attack Iran(offensively), but Iran is just asking for it, after their leaders state every day that they want to destroy Israel. A defensive attack is something different obviously.

What about Israel's occupation of Palestine? Is that not reason enough they should not have WMDs? The occupation is illegal. The Iraq war was fought on the same basis. Lots of glamour, little fact.

Fact - Iran beleives Isreal is a threat to the Muslim world

Fact 2 - America beleived Iraq was a threat to America becuase it had WMDs. They were wrong.

Conclusion - Iran has the same right in destroying Israel as America had in destroying Iraq. A criminal can never be a judge.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: linkgoron

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: linkgoron

I won't even start...

Yes becuase you have nothing to say.

No, it's obvious that religion has no place in this thread.

It has nothing to do with religion. I will not follow American rules as long as I am outside it. When I visit it, I will respect those laws, but when Im living in my soverign country, American laws have no authority over me and I will do as I please (within my countries laws).

Just becuase america is the richest and most powerful country in the world does not mean it has perfect laws. America has no right to affect my life!!

 

[linkgoron]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Taliban killed thousands of americans?
Saddam was trying to play it cool, and instead of saying "no I don't have weapons of mass destruction" was trying to play it cool, and got owned.
Oh and Saddam killed thousands too...

When did the Taliban kill thousands of Americans? Saddam Hussain did publish a report saying he did not have WMDs. Get your facts right. This is not a kintergarden playground that you mention "playing it cool". You cannot kill on the basis of saying that a guy was trying to act too smart. Clearly he was not.

No its not a conflict of opinion. Israel has no need to attack Iran(offensively), but Iran is just asking for it, after their leaders state every day that they want to destroy Israel. A defensive attack is something different obviously.

What about Israel's occupation of Palestine? Is that not reason enough they should not have WMDs? The occupation is illegal. The Iraq war was fought on the same basis. Lots of glamour, little fact.

Fact - Iran beleives Isreal is a threat to the Muslim world

Fact 2 - America beleived Iraq was a threat to America becuase it had WMDs. They were wrong.

Conclusion - Iran has the same right in destroying Israel as America had in destroying Iraq. A criminal can never be a judge.

FACT 3 - Israel has no actual need to attack Iran (or any other country), thus they are not a threat to Iran. How does the occupation have anything to do with WMDs?
Iraq, on the other hand, made it clear that they wanted to attack other countries. That is the reason they were attacked. Not because of WMDs.

Conclusion-Israel is not a threat to any other country.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Why should Iran be disallowed to have nukes?

It shouldn't. Next topic please.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: linkgoron

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Taliban killed thousands of americans?
Saddam was trying to play it cool, and instead of saying "no I don't have weapons of mass destruction" was trying to play it cool, and got owned.
Oh and Saddam killed thousands too...

When did the Taliban kill thousands of Americans? Saddam Hussain did publish a report saying he did not have WMDs. Get your facts right. This is not a kintergarden playground that you mention "playing it cool". You cannot kill on the basis of saying that a guy was trying to act too smart. Clearly he was not.

No its not a conflict of opinion. Israel has no need to attack Iran(offensively), but Iran is just asking for it, after their leaders state every day that they want to destroy Israel. A defensive attack is something different obviously.

What about Israel's occupation of Palestine? Is that not reason enough they should not have WMDs? The occupation is illegal. The Iraq war was fought on the same basis. Lots of glamour, little fact.

Fact - Iran beleives Isreal is a threat to the Muslim world

Fact 2 - America beleived Iraq was a threat to America becuase it had WMDs. They were wrong.

Conclusion - Iran has the same right in destroying Israel as America had in destroying Iraq. A criminal can never be a judge.

FACT 3 - Israel has no actual need to attack Iran (or any other country), thus they are not a threat to Iran. How does the occupation have anything to do with WMDs?
Iraq, on the other hand, made it clear that they wanted to attack other countries. That is the reason they were attacked. Not because of WMDs.

Conclusion-Israel is not a threat to any other country.

Fact 4 - Iraq never said it wanted to attack any other country. An Iranian invasion of Israel will be as justified (or more) than the Iraq invastion. Israel already occupies much of Palestine illegally. Tommorrow, it might decide to invade Lebanon or Egypt.

Israel already has regular skirmshes with Lebanon. That is enough a reason for them to not have nukes.

Cocnlusion - Iraq was never a threat to any country and the US invaded it illegally.

Conclusion 2 - Iran has as many rights to nuclear weapons the Israel, the USA or any other country has.

Statistically as I mentioned before, America has killed more innocent civilians than any other regime since September 2001. That makes them the most dangerous country and should not be allowed to have nuclear weapons.

A Question - Why does Israel need nuclear weapons to defend itself against non-nuclear countries?

 

[lozina]

Originally posted by: Aimster
Until Islam decides to change, no Islamic nation is allowed to have any kind of nuclear weapons at all.

Weird, I once thought that you were Muslim?

Every religion has their extremist whackos... they come in Christian, Jewish, Muslim plus many more flavors. I have met extremist Christian whackos, and believe me, they ain't pretty.

 

[linkgoron]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: linkgoron

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Taliban killed thousands of americans?
Saddam was trying to play it cool, and instead of saying "no I don't have weapons of mass destruction" was trying to play it cool, and got owned.
Oh and Saddam killed thousands too...

When did the Taliban kill thousands of Americans? Saddam Hussain did publish a report saying he did not have WMDs. Get your facts right. This is not a kintergarden playground that you mention "playing it cool". You cannot kill on the basis of saying that a guy was trying to act too smart. Clearly he was not.

No its not a conflict of opinion. Israel has no need to attack Iran(offensively), but Iran is just asking for it, after their leaders state every day that they want to destroy Israel. A defensive attack is something different obviously.

What about Israel's occupation of Palestine? Is that not reason enough they should not have WMDs? The occupation is illegal. The Iraq war was fought on the same basis. Lots of glamour, little fact.

Fact - Iran beleives Isreal is a threat to the Muslim world

Fact 2 - America beleived Iraq was a threat to America becuase it had WMDs. They were wrong.

Conclusion - Iran has the same right in destroying Israel as America had in destroying Iraq. A criminal can never be a judge.

FACT 3 - Israel has no actual need to attack Iran (or any other country), thus they are not a threat to Iran. How does the occupation have anything to do with WMDs?
Iraq, on the other hand, made it clear that they wanted to attack other countries. That is the reason they were attacked. Not because of WMDs.

Conclusion-Israel is not a threat to any other country.

Fact 4 - Iraq never said it wanted to attack any other country. An Iranian invasion of Israel will be as justified (or more) than the Iraq invastion. Israel already occupies much of Palestine illegally. Tommorrow, it might decide to invade Lebanon or Egypt.

Israel already has regular skirmshes with Lebanon. That is enough a reason for them to not have nukes.

Cocnlusion - Iraq was never a threat to any country and the US invaded it illegally.

Conclusion 2 - Iran has as many rights to nuclear weapons the Israel, the USA or any other country has.

Statistically as I mentioned before, America has killed more innocent civilians than any other regime since September 2001. That makes them the most dangerous country and should not be allowed to have nuclear weapons.

A Question - Why does Israel need nuclear weapons to defend itself against non-nuclear countries?

Got proof that Israel has nukes?

Oh and Israel has no NEED to invade Egypt or Lebanon...

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Aimster
Iranian people have a right to nuclear power/weapoms just as much as the people of Israel

:thumbsup:

Iran's govt. has no right to nuclear power/weapons.

Iran's government has all the right to nuclear weapons that the Israeli, Pakistani, Indian or North Korean governments have.

Radical Islam is the biggest threat the world has seen. Iran's govt. is feeding this threat.

Thats solely your point of view. The world does not revolve around you or your POVs. Nor is whatever you beleive right.

Until Islam decides to change, no Islamic nation is allowed to have any kind of nuclear weapons at all.

Thats your POV. My opinion is the world needs to change in order to coexist with Islam. Islam is not going anywhere. And until the US does not accept Islam as its equal, there will be no peace.

Have you ever talked to Radical Islamic people? Have you ever had a conversation with one?

I'm not talking about Muslims, people who pray 5x a day whatever.

There is a totally different group of Muslims. They will stab you if you drink alcohol. Kill you if you date their daugther. They will slash you if they find out you are Jewish. They will openly admit to wanting to kill themselves in the name of Allah.

Have you ever talked to the radical Christian people., such as the people in this administration?(or maybe yourself?)

 

[rickn]

Iran is not allowed to have them because big bad mean America says so. we'll huff, puff, then blow your damn a$$ away if you try. Now my honest opinion is I don't give a crap if they get a nuke. Iran having nukes is not any worse than Pakistan, and I'd say Pakistan is much more unstable a country than Iran is. The Iranian nuclear weapon issue is Israels problem, which somehow translates into America's problem.

 

[piasabird]

Well the number one reason is they attacked our embassy and kidnapped our people and they can not be trusted.

If you have a very short memory, Iranians attacked our embassy in Iran and held our people hostage. This does not make for a very trustworthy relationship.

The second reason is Russia is arming them and helping them. I can see no other way they could have developed that underwater missle that looks just like the russian model designed to carray a nuclear warhead.

The Third reason is they sell arms and ammunition to the palestinians, and they support terrorism.

Isreal will probably shoot back at Iran causing havoc in the middle east and destroying the Oil Supply for the world if they are attacked with nukes.

I think the US should adopt a post-war genocide program. Any country that uses a nuke not in the defense of their own country gets wiped out. We move in and just kill everyone and everything that moves.

If you think Iran will not use a nuclear weapon or sell it to the palestinians, then maybe you live in a fantasy world.

 

[lozina]

Originally posted by: piasabird
Well the number one reason is they attacked our embassy and kidnapped our people and they can not be trusted.

If you have a very short memory, Iranians attacked our embassy in Iran and held our people hostage. This does not make for a very trustworthy relationship.

The second reason is Russia is arming them and helping them. I can see no other way they could have developed that underwater missle that looks just like the russian model designed to carray a nuclear warhead.

The Third reason is they sell arms and ammunition to the palestinians, and they support terrorism.

Did you ever ask yourself why they did that? Just a random act of violence, huh? The Western countries - USA in particular- has been meddling in Iranian politics since WW2.

Besides, taking some diplomats hostage is child's play compared to Iran Air Flight 655

 

[piasabird]

They could have just told us to get out of their country.

 

[imported_Goo]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

What about North Korea?

First I respected most members to keep it on topic, not very offen in P/N.

I just want to add I think the main reason US is no bombing NK is because there are 2 high power beside NK in China and Russia plus a few very importants like SK and Japan. Image US bombing right between those 4. US can play around with ME because they don't have the ability to strike back but China and Russia can.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Goo

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

What about North Korea?

First I respected most members to keep it on topic, not very offen in P/N.

I just want to add I think the main reason US is no bombing NK is because there are 2 high power beside NK in China and Russia plus a few very importants like SK and Japan. Image US bombing right between those 4. US can play around with ME because they don't have the ability to strike back but China and Russia can.

Russia is not going to defend NK, there is no advantage in it for them. The Chinese might get involved if we rolled up to their border again like in 1950.

The reason we don't do anything to NK is that our main goal in the area is to protect SK lives and independence . Getting into another shooting war on the peninsula that would certianly involve a huge number of civilian casulties (and now possisbly include nuclear weapons) is not wanted by anyone.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: piasabird
The Third reason is they sell arms and ammunition to the palestinians, and they support terrorism.

If you think Iran will not use a nuclear weapon or sell it to the palestinians, then maybe you live in a fantasy world.

Is that so very wrong?

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Goo

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

What about North Korea?

First I respected most members to keep it on topic, not very offen in P/N.

I just want to add I think the main reason US is no bombing NK is because there are 2 high power beside NK in China and Russia plus a few very importants like SK and Japan. Image US bombing right between those 4. US can play around with ME because they don't have the ability to strike back but China and Russia can.

Russia is not going to defend NK, there is no advantage in it for them. The Chinese might get involved if we rolled up to their border again like in 1950.

The reason we don't do anything to NK is that our main goal in the area is to protect SK lives and independence . Getting into another shooting war on the peninsula that would certianly involve a huge number of civilian casulties (and now possisbly include nuclear weapons) is not wanted by anyone.

Its Israel and OIL especially the former.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Goo

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

What about North Korea?

First I respected most members to keep it on topic, not very offen in P/N.

I just want to add I think the main reason US is no bombing NK is because there are 2 high power beside NK in China and Russia plus a few very importants like SK and Japan. Image US bombing right between those 4. US can play around with ME because they don't have the ability to strike back but China and Russia can.

Russia is not going to defend NK, there is no advantage in it for them. The Chinese might get involved if we rolled up to their border again like in 1950.

The reason we don't do anything to NK is that our main goal in the area is to protect SK lives and independence . Getting into another shooting war on the peninsula that would certianly involve a huge number of civilian casulties (and now possisbly include nuclear weapons) is not wanted by anyone.

Its Israel and OIL especially the former.

We'd also have to extend strategic protection to other ME states who's governments are friendly to us that fear a nuclear Iran (Iraq, SA, Kuait, UAE, etc...).

 

[imported_Goo]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Goo

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

What about North Korea?

First I respected most members to keep it on topic, not very offen in P/N.

I just want to add I think the main reason US is no bombing NK is because there are 2 high power beside NK in China and Russia plus a few very importants like SK and Japan. Image US bombing right between those 4. US can play around with ME because they don't have the ability to strike back but China and Russia can.

Russia is not going to defend NK, there is no advantage in it for them. The Chinese might get involved if we rolled up to their border again like in 1950.

The reason we don't do anything to NK is that our main goal in the area is to protect SK lives and independence . Getting into another shooting war on the peninsula that would certianly involve a huge number of civilian casulties (and now possisbly include nuclear weapons) is not wanted by anyone.

First, SK is alot more advance country than NK, they have enough fire power to protect themself. They don't need US.
Second, US have alot concerns about bombing NK
-Any Military action in the area will trigger Japan about their army request.
-GWB can't affort a new shooting war as Nov is coming.
-China and Russia will not allow US bombing with a few hundred km from their border, they can be a PR nightmate.
-NK don't have anything US want, ala oil.
-Every countries in the area is doing good and have a very good balance, there is no space for US.