Why should Iran be disallowed to have nukes?

[totalcommand]

It's in the US national interest to keep nukes out of Iranian hands. There is oil, Iraq, protecting Israel - all of these are at hand here. If you're an American, most of these (especially oil) will be important to you.

 

[linkgoron]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
As long as Israel is not disarmed of nukes, there is no reason why Iran should not be allowed to have them. Its pretty stupid letting Israel with a population of only a few thousand to be dominating the whole of the ME. What does the US want? Israel to be the only viable force in the ME? Iraq out and now Iran being the next target?

huh? a few thousand?
EDIT: Oh, controling the ME? What are you talking about?

What about North Korea? Are nukes with them any less dangerous than Nukes in the hand of the Iranians? What about the Americans themselves. Would the Americans not use Nukes if their sovereignty was threatened? Why should Iran not be able to secure its sovereignity with nuclear weapons?

Because they don't want to defend themselves. They want to destroy Israel.

I see no reason why Iran should not be allowed to have nukes especially when Israel, India and Pakistan already have them. If the USA real wants to rid Iran of nukes, it must create an example by disarming Israel first!

It's not the nukes that are the problems. You don't see Israel threatening to destory other countries. Iran on the other hand does.

Its a conflict of opinions. Thats why we have wars. This time, the US's opinion is clearly unfair and unjustified.

Obviously, the world should bow down to Islam. Why should the world change for Islam? Islam should change for the world. The US isn't trying to kill Islam, but when you've got mad leaders trying to get hold of nukes, and also say that they want to destroy other nations... I can't say they're not a threat to the world...

EDIT: BTW, I obviously meant Iran, and not Islam as a threat to the world.

 

[totalcommand]

Originally posted by: linkgoron
Obviously, the world should bow down to Islam. Why should the world change for Islam? Islam should change for the world. The US isn't trying to kill Islam, but when you've got mad leaders trying to get hold of nukes, and also say that they want to destroy other nations... I can't say they're not a threat to the world...

This has absolutely nothing to do with Islam. So keep your hatred out of here.

 

[linkgoron]

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: linkgoron
Obviously, the world should bow down to Islam. Why should the world change for Islam? Islam should change for the world. The US isn't trying to kill Islam, but when you've got mad leaders trying to get hold of nukes, and also say that they want to destroy other nations... I can't say they're not a threat to the world...

This has absolutely nothing to do with Islam. So keep your hatred out of here.

I don't hate Muslims, and did you even read what he wrote?

 

[cwjerome]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Its a conflict of opinions. Thats why we have wars. This time, the US's opinion is clearly unfair and unjustified.

Clear to whom? Not me... I tend to believe the ideas, principles, and concepts the US is built on and strives to achieve are more moral -ie. beneficial for man- than those of radical Islamic fundamentalism.

I agree with you though that Islam needs reform from the inside. However, just how much and what kind of pressures the US should put upon the Islamic power structure is the question, because change needs to happen sooner rather than later... and I'm not one that will sit back and wishfully hope that they get their sh!t straight while the barbaric zealots attempt to wage a war against me and mine.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Its a conflict of opinions. Thats why we have wars. This time, the US's opinion is clearly unfair and unjustified.

Clear to whom? Not me... I tend to believe the ideas, principles, and concepts the US is built on and strives to achieve are more moral -ie. beneficial for man- than those of radical Islamic fundamentalism.

And that is your problem right there, pushing ones morals onto another is the problem, look at what it got the native americans in this "moral" country. Same kind of fundamentalist thugs trying to bully others.

You may want to go read a history book, I dont know what country you are in if you think we are not just as bad if not worse throughout history unless your just playing dumb.

The only reason we have the freedoms we have in this country is becasue people stood up to fundies in this country time and time again to fight for every scrap of civil rights.

 

[fitzov]

For someone who complains about someone stating his opinion you sure do have alot of them.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: fitzov
For someone who complains about someone stating his opinion you sure do have alot of them.

legislating your morals onto someone else always ends up bad for a society cwjerome is a little dictator, and who said I have a problem with opinions? I will call you out if I disagree though and say my piece, that is the point of the forum.

 

[Jaskalas]

These people are savages who adore a suicidal religious ideology. If you think Bush is dangerous with nukes, then what in the ****** are you doing wanting Iran to have them?

 

[cwjerome]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Its a conflict of opinions. Thats why we have wars. This time, the US's opinion is clearly unfair and unjustified.

Clear to whom? Not me... I tend to believe the ideas, principles, and concepts the US is built on and strives to achieve are more moral -ie. beneficial for man- than those of radical Islamic fundamentalism.

And that is your problem right there, pushing ones morals onto another is the problem, look at what it got the native americans in this "moral" country. Same kind of fundamentalist thugs trying to bully others.

You may want to go read a history book, I dont know what country you are in if you think we are not just as bad if not worse throughout history unless your just playing dumb.

The only reason we have the freedoms we have in this country is becasue people stood up to fundies in this country time and time again to fight for every scrap of civil rights.

Can I make a suggestion? Let's debate morality, instead of you burying your reason by claiming it's wrong to advocate a moral stance (and by doing so, pushing your own morality). Haven't you learned a damn thing on these forums?

Oh, and instead of going off on your typical America-bashing rant/tangent, address the issue of my discussion: That the US has the moral high ground over the radical Islamic fundamentalists.

 

[fitzov]

Let's debate morality, instead of you burying your reason by claiming it's wrong to advocate a moral stance (and by doing so, pushing your own morality).

Exactly. Only a hypocrite cries 'All appeals to morality are bad!'. The same goes for everything being "subjective".

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Its a conflict of opinions. Thats why we have wars. This time, the US's opinion is clearly unfair and unjustified.

Clear to whom? Not me... I tend to believe the ideas, principles, and concepts the US is built on and strives to achieve are more moral -ie. beneficial for man- than those of radical Islamic fundamentalism.

I agree with you though that Islam needs reform from the inside. However, just how much and what kind of pressures the US should put upon the Islamic power structure is the question, because change needs to happen sooner rather than later... and I'm not one that will sit back and wishfully hope that they get their sh!t straight while the barbaric zealots attempt to wage a war against me and mine.

This is EXACTLY the issue I have with The Green Beans view on the situation between Islamic nations and the US. As it stands, the US these Islamic nations do not exist completely seperate of one another. Aggression has been made on both sides and the US cannot simply sit back at this point in time and hope that the Islamic powers deal with their own issues before more American lives are harmed. Note that I am referring mostly to terrorist actions, and not the war with Iraq, which I do not think was justified...

 

[Xecuter]

No one should be allowed to have nukes - ESPECIALLY the US. We tell other countries to disarm and then go home to pour money into new nuclear weapons programs when we already have enough warheads to destroy the world 60+ times.

Is it necessary to blow up the world 60+ times?

 

[ModerateRepZero]

As long as Israel is not disarmed of nukes, there is no reason why Iran should not be allowed to have them. Its pretty stupid letting Israel with a population of only a few thousand to be dominating the whole of the ME.

I trust Israel more than I trust Iran (which is already little). I can give one reason why Iran shouldn't have nuclear weapons: religious fanaticism and its hatred for Israel and apostates (and non-muslims). Not all of Iran is anti-west, but its govt. is ruled by a theocracy which has made no secret of its hatred against Israel. I am not persuaded that when religion and fanaticsm are together that rational decisions can be made, especially with regards to nuclear weapons. I sincerely doubt that radiation for several thousand years will deter their willingness to use nuclear weapons on Israel.

Why should Iran not be able to secure its sovereignity with nuclear weapons?

Religious fanaticism

I see no reason why Iran should not be allowed to have nukes especially when Israel, India and Pakistan already have them. If the USA real wants to rid Iran of nukes, it must create an example by disarming Israel first!

The US wasn't successful in preventing India and Pakistan from being able to produce nuclear weapons, and I'm somewhat nervous about Israel's possession of nuclear weapons. But I am more certain that Israel will behave rationally and be mindful of MAD (mutually assured destruction) than religious fanatics controlling Iran. It's also easier to prevent pandora's box from opening up than to try to put the genie back in the bottle.


Also to OP:
Radical Islam is indeed a threat to the non-muslim world. Notice I said radical. I have no doubt that most law-abiding muslims may recoil at Western culture but are willing to live in peace as long as they can practice Islam by themselves. The fundamentalists, however, see the world as either muslim (good) or non-muslim (bad). What 9/11 demonstrated was the willingness of fanatics to kill innocent civilians and to strike fear and terror.
It may be an opinion, but unlike you, I take seriously Bin Laden and Al Queda's threats. Their actions have demonstrated time and time again that they are not just mouthing off, they are serious and willing to murder innocents to fulfill their delusions of grandeur (ie caliphate in the ME).

As for the second part of your response, Islam as it stands can co-exist with the West. I do not accept the belief of radical fundamentalists that there is an inevitable clash with Christianity and other religions and/or Western civilization. But I do believe that these Islamic fundamentalists pose enough of a threat to be taken seriously, and to be dealt with.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Xecuter
No one should be allowed to have nukes - ESPECIALLY the US. We tell other countries to disarm and then go home to pour money into new nuclear weapons programs when we already have enough warheads to destroy the world 60+ times.

Is it necessary to blow up the world 60+ times?

I don't believe we have that many, but if we do than shame on us for not getting the job done the other 59 times.

Seriously though, I keep hearing about how we have them. How is this a factor in you debating the subject of Iran getting the ability to make them? If we have nukes, then every nutcase is entitled to them?

I don't see how we reasonably factor into this outside we scare people into developing them. Which although is a reason behind them doing it, this should not be a reason for our people to defending them doing it.

If this is a case of bleeding (more people getting nuclear weapons as the years pass) then why object to stopping the bleeding and preventing the further spread of a deadly technology? Just because we discovered it and mass produced it for ourselves does not mean we cannot have a say on whether suicidal nutcases deserve to have it.

What I hope to say here is that I don?t believe anyone should be rooting for the spread of nuclear weapons capability and I hope your actions follow your words else they will not have meaning.

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
As long as Israel is not disarmed of nukes, there is no reason why Iran should not be allowed to have them. Its pretty stupid letting Israel with a population of only a few thousand to be dominating the whole of the ME. What does the US want? Israel to be the only viable force in the ME? Iraq out and now Iran being the next target?

What about North Korea? Are nukes with them any less dangerous than Nukes in the hand of the Iranians? What about the Americans themselves. Would the Americans not use Nukes if their sovereignty was threatened? Why should Iran not be able to secure its sovereignity with nuclear weapons?

I see no reason why Iran should not be allowed to have nukes especially when Israel, India and Pakistan already have them. If the USA real wants to rid Iran of nukes, it must create an example by disarming Israel first!

Because Iran has called for the destruction of Israel twice. No more reason is needed.

 

[zugzoog]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: maddogchen
Israel lords over the ME how?

Which country in the ME is calling for the destruction of another?

Which ME country exists on the lands of another?

Iran, Iraq, Syria & Turkey.

look up Kurdistan.....

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: zugzoog

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: maddogchen
Israel lords over the ME how?

Which country in the ME is calling for the destruction of another?

Which ME country exists on the lands of another?

Iran, Iraq, Syria & Turkey.

look up Kurdistan.....

Here we go......

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
As long as Israel is not disarmed of nukes, there is no reason why Iran should not be allowed to have them. Its pretty stupid letting Israel with a population of only a few thousand to be dominating the whole of the ME. What does the US want? Israel to be the only viable force in the ME? Iraq out and now Iran being the next target?

What about North Korea? Are nukes with them any less dangerous than Nukes in the hand of the Iranians? What about the Americans themselves. Would the Americans not use Nukes if their sovereignty was threatened? Why should Iran not be able to secure its sovereignity with nuclear weapons?

I see no reason why Iran should not be allowed to have nukes especially when Israel, India and Pakistan already have them. If the USA real wants to rid Iran of nukes, it must create an example by disarming Israel first!

Because Iran has called for the destruction of Israel twice. No more reason is needed.

Israel's existence is already illegal.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Aimster
I see nobody in here knows what the true face of radical islam looks like

if they had their way we would all be dead

Just know that

Thats an opinion. Not a fact. That does not give america to stop Iran from developing nukes.

Ok let America let Iran develop nuclear weapons. NO.

Have you ever met a fanatical wacko religious Iranian?

I have. I wanted to punch them in the throat.

I cannot believe some of them actually live in the U.S. Their thinking is so backward and twisted that it is scary.

They walk around like they are right and we are all wrong. Now imagine if they were the majority and not the minority. We'd be so screwed.
Sucks to be European in the future.

You just descibed the current Bush Administration. Sucks to be Arab now.

Islam cannot suffer in the quest to root out radicalism. Its a too diverse a religion, state with diverse beleifs hardly united except in a few basic beleives. IE - There is no God but Allah, and Mohammed is his messenger. And the Quran was revealed by Him. Thats it. And its not America's job to root out radicalism. It is upto the muslims themselves.

Actually it is up to the United States to a degree. Radicalism is a threat to the American way of life. Should we just sit back and let Arab nations deal with this problem while terrorists plot against the US

Should you go bomb countries and kill thousands of innocent civilians to save a few Americans?

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: totalcommand
It's in the US national interest to keep nukes out of Iranian hands. There is oil, Iraq, protecting Israel - all of these are at hand here. If you're an American, most of these (especially oil) will be important to you.

There is a huge difference between "American National interest" and the interests of mankind itself. If you ask me, they are two conflicting ideologies. There is a lot more to mankind then americans.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: linkgoron

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
As long as Israel is not disarmed of nukes, there is no reason why Iran should not be allowed to have them. Its pretty stupid letting Israel with a population of only a few thousand to be dominating the whole of the ME. What does the US want? Israel to be the only viable force in the ME? Iraq out and now Iran being the next target?

huh? a few thousand?
EDIT: Oh, controling the ME? What are you talking about?

What about North Korea? Are nukes with them any less dangerous than Nukes in the hand of the Iranians? What about the Americans themselves. Would the Americans not use Nukes if their sovereignty was threatened? Why should Iran not be able to secure its sovereignity with nuclear weapons?

Because they don't want to defend themselves. They want to destroy Israel.

Whats illegal about destroying an illegal country through a legal war? Iran beleives than Israel is a threat to the muslim world in the same way that Bush thought OBL, Taliban, Iraq, Saddam, WMDs and Iran are/were a threat to America. They (US) were incorrect on most counts. Bush should be tried for war crimes. Thousands of innocent civilians have been killed by Bush illegally. Just because America is the most powerful country in the world does not give it extra rights to kill people nor does it make them right (as it has been proven).

I see no reason why Iran should not be allowed to have nukes especially when Israel, India and Pakistan already have them. If the USA real wants to rid Iran of nukes, it must create an example by disarming Israel first!

It's not the nukes that are the problems. You don't see Israel threatening to destory other countries. Iran on the other hand does.

Its a conflict of opinions. Thats why we have wars. This time, the US's opinion is clearly unfair and unjustified.

Obviously, the world should bow down to Islam. Why should the world change for Islam? Islam should change for the world. The US isn't trying to kill Islam, but when you've got mad leaders trying to get hold of nukes, and also say that they want to destroy other nations... I can't say they're not a threat to the world...

EDIT: BTW, I obviously meant Iran, and not Islam as a threat to the world.

I beg to differ. Since September 2001, America as killed more innocent civilians than any other regime in the world. Statistics tell us America is the current greatest threat to the world and mankind.

 

[aidanjm]

The Iranains seem to have a bit of a sense of humor... just saw Iranian authorities on TV celebrating their nuclear progress with a slice of cake covered in yellow icing (yellow cake, get it?) I thought it was rather cheeky of them, given current international tensions over the issue..

yellowcake
¦ noun impure uranium oxide obtained during processing of uranium ore.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Its a conflict of opinions. Thats why we have wars. This time, the US's opinion is clearly unfair and unjustified.

Clear to whom? Not me... I tend to believe the ideas, principles, and concepts the US is built on and strives to achieve are more moral -ie. beneficial for man- than those of radical Islamic fundamentalism.

I agree with you though that Islam needs reform from the inside. However, just how much and what kind of pressures the US should put upon the Islamic power structure is the question, because change needs to happen sooner rather than later... and I'm not one that will sit back and wishfully hope that they get their sh!t straight while the barbaric zealots attempt to wage a war against me and mine.

If you think killing thousands of innocent civilians in foriegn countries "moral", then you need to get your brain checked. Just becuase the americans use planes to kill rather than suicide bombers does NOT make them any better!

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Its a conflict of opinions. Thats why we have wars. This time, the US's opinion is clearly unfair and unjustified.

Clear to whom? Not me... I tend to believe the ideas, principles, and concepts the US is built on and strives to achieve are more moral -ie. beneficial for man- than those of radical Islamic fundamentalism.

I agree with you though that Islam needs reform from the inside. However, just how much and what kind of pressures the US should put upon the Islamic power structure is the question, because change needs to happen sooner rather than later... and I'm not one that will sit back and wishfully hope that they get their sh!t straight while the barbaric zealots attempt to wage a war against me and mine.

This is EXACTLY the issue I have with The Green Beans view on the situation between Islamic nations and the US. As it stands, the US these Islamic nations do not exist completely seperate of one another. Aggression has been made on both sides and the US cannot simply sit back at this point in time and hope that the Islamic powers deal with their own issues before more American lives are harmed. Note that I am referring mostly to terrorist actions, and not the war with Iraq, which I do not think was justified...

If you read the history books, it was Europe's brilliant idea (in its interests) to divide the ottoman empire. If it had not been done so, it would have been a major power as of today. So technically they have not seperated by their own movements.

Let me make this clear. American lives are NOT more important that Iraqi or Iranian lives!