Why should Gov Workers not feel pain too?

[Nintendesert]

Exactly.

The private sector should offer more competitive benefits. Blame them for cutting corners.

No no no, instead of raising up some of the private sector retirement plans we need to tear everyone down to the lowest common denominator.

UPS has better benefits packages than the federal government, let's tear them down next!

 

[boomerang]

No no no, instead of raising up some of the private sector retirement plans we need to tear everyone down to the lowest common denominator.

UPS has better benefits packages than the federal government, let's tear them down next!

From each according to his ability to each according to his need. The question is, to what degree can this be implemented in the next four years?

 

[monovillage]

Seems like the OP was intending his diatribe to refer to federal workers, but then he specifically added in municipal workers, teachers, firefighters, etc. With that in mind, I can say firsthand that he's full of shit.

I'm a public employee, I happen to work for state government. State workers here have had their pay frozen since (IIRC) 2008. Pay freezes are tentatively scheduled to end in FY 2014, which for half of the workers is calendar year 2015. That's about 8 years of pay freeze, during which cost of living has gone up significantly.

Also during that time we've been subject to furloughs amounting to approximately 5% of pay per year.

Add in that in 2011 we took a 2.5% pay cut.

Oh, also add in that mandatory retirement contributions have gone up about 3%.

Don't forget that health premiums have gone up 100%.

Did I mention that those increased health premiums are also for worse coverage? Deductibles are also up 50-100% for PPO plans.

We're working on skeleton crews because we're prohibited from hiring, so workload has gone up.

Oh, and my agency is sitting on a seven-figure surplus because we've been forced to flat budget even though we have licensing and permit funds available.

A Grade 37, step 1, which is a mid-tier professional, should make about $50,526 per year. After all of the cuts they make about $45,520. From the time the cuts started to the time they are scheduled to end that person will have lost a total of $82,409 to the cuts, or about a year and a half of salary, plus they will still be at step 1 and about 8 years behind on the pay scale.

Oh, and we don't have a personal income tax here (it's prohibited by our constitution), so the public employees are bearing the burden of an unconstitutional income tax with no assistance from any other sector.

But that's cool, I mean, it is about time we contributed in some way, right? /sarcasm

I understand your point, but do you think that the people in the private sector have had it any better? Many have completely lost their jobs and new business (at least here in California) have so many legal and legislative hoops to jump through and regulations to follow to start a business many just give it up. While I don't think all the pain should be in the public sector neither do I think they should be immune from cuts, reductions or layoffs.

 

[sactoking]

I understand your point, but do you think that the people in the private sector have had it any better? Many have completely lost their jobs and new business (at least here in California) have so many legal and legislative hoops to jump through and regulations to follow to start a business many just give it up. While I don't think all the pain should be in the public sector neither do I think they should be immune from cuts, reductions or layoffs.

I agree, I'm not so myopic as to think otherwise. But apparently some people are myopic enough to think that the economy hasn't hurt public-sector employees as well, and that was what I was responding to. Hell, even things like increased regulation hurts us as well, and we're a regulator. But that's because the Legislature is intent on making ever more hoops for everyone to jump through, not just private industry.

 

[DCal430]

Seems like the OP was intending his diatribe to refer to federal workers, but then he specifically added in municipal workers, teachers, firefighters, etc. With that in mind, I can say firsthand that he's full of shit.

I'm a public employee, I happen to work for state government. State workers here have had their pay frozen since (IIRC) 2008. Pay freezes are tentatively scheduled to end in FY 2014, which for half of the workers is calendar year 2015. That's about 8 years of pay freeze, during which cost of living has gone up significantly.

Also during that time we've been subject to furloughs amounting to approximately 5% of pay per year.

Add in that in 2011 we took a 2.5% pay cut.

Oh, also add in that mandatory retirement contributions have gone up about 3%.

Don't forget that health premiums have gone up 100%.

Did I mention that those increased health premiums are also for worse coverage? Deductibles are also up 50-100% for PPO plans.

We're working on skeleton crews because we're prohibited from hiring, so workload has gone up.

Oh, and my agency is sitting on a seven-figure surplus because we've been forced to flat budget even though we have licensing and permit funds available.

A Grade 37, step 1, which is a mid-tier professional, should make about $50,526 per year. After all of the cuts they make about $45,520. From the time the cuts started to the time they are scheduled to end that person will have lost a total of $82,409 to the cuts, or about a year and a half of salary, plus they will still be at step 1 and about 8 years behind on the pay scale.

Oh, and we don't have a personal income tax here (it's prohibited by our constitution), so the public employees are bearing the burden of an unconstitutional income tax with no assistance from any other sector.

But that's cool, I mean, it is about time we contributed in some way, right? /sarcasm

You work for the State of Nevada right? Do you not get a 5% step raise each year in Nevada? Here in California people who are not in the top of their classification are still getting 5% yearly pay step raises. Also in July everyone who is at the top of their pay will get either a 3% or a 5% raise.

 

[olds]

It amazes me that the MSM can report on real income dropping for working Americans in the private sector but get upset when government employees, including municipal workers, teachers, fire fighters, and law enforcement have the same impact. The people who pay these salaries are hurting with less pay. Government tells them to deal with it, but don't cut our pay.

WTF are you talking about? I am a government employees and have been on furloughs or pay cuts for the last 3 or 4 years. My next promotion will result in a pay cut!

 

[unokitty]

The 'Agony' of 2.4% Federal Cuts

"If, as our president keeps claiming, “We’re all in this together” and the fat cats should go on a diet, why not start with federal employees?

Their compensation has in recent years increased much more rapidly than that of private-sector workers whom they now out-earn by more than 100 percent when all pensions and benefits are included. That’s right: your friendly neighborhood regulator gets paid double what the slobs producing goods and services the marketplace actually wants.

If President Obama is looking to share the pain Americans are feeling, maybe he could take a deep breath, grit his teeth and decide he can get by with only two staff calligraphers instead of the three he employs at a cost of some $300,000 a year. Maybe the White House doesn’t need to pay more than $100,000 to 226 of its 468 staffers. Even the presidential dog walker earns six figures."

Federal dog walker makes six figures a year? Most I ever made was $225 a month.

Then again, I was never a Democratic Party lackey.

Uno
Sentry Dog Handler
US Army 69-71

 

[infoiltrator]

Divide and conquer. You want fair wages, yet are willing to deny them to others.
Take the money from the fat cats.
50% of the nations wealth belongs to 1% of the population
That does not work

 

[IronWing]

Their compensation has in recent years increased much more rapidly than that of private-sector workers whom they now out-earn by more than 100 percent when all pensions and benefits are included.

While, IMHO, this incorrect statement is sufficiently incorrect that it would be appropriate to classify it as an outright lie, in the spirit of civility I will simply request credible backup of this rather incredible assertion.

 

[IGBT]

they don't and they won't because the liberals have a money laundering / union dues racket going with public employment. Where do you think the millions of dollars in SEIU / AFSME / union dues end up?? At the DNC.

 

[sactoking]

You work for the State of Nevada right? Do you not get a 5% step raise each year in Nevada? Here in California people who are not in the top of their classification are still getting 5% yearly pay step raises. Also in July everyone who is at the top of their pay will get either a 3% or a 5% raise.

We have a step program, but that has been canceled since 2008; it's basically what I referred to as the "pay freeze". Salaries have been frozen since then, no step, no COLA, nothing. We do have a longevity program, where someone who has been with the state for at least 15 years gets an annual lump sum, but that was discontinued in 2008 as well.

That's contributed to our difficulties in maintaining service, since the only way to increase pay is to get promoted. Our personnel people are idiots and can't get outside applicants qualified properly so we have a lot of current employees taking underfill promotions hoping to keep up with inflation and counter the various cuts.

IIRC, I did a calculation a few months back and figured that by the time the cuts start rolling off in 2014/15, salaries will be equivalent to a late 1990's level, in real dollar terms.

 

[Genx87]

I have read that 107,000 federal workers are going to get laid off due to the sequestration. Is that enough pain to fit your needs?

Compared to the pain of millions of private sector jobs lost in the past 4 years? Cry us a river.

 

[blankslate]

Only COLA, not step pay increases and promotions. The people don't get COLA, so it should end for federal employees permanently.

Better to have the minimum wage increased by a couple of dollars and then adjusted to inflation imo.

 

[1prophet]

Gov workers don't enjoy bonuses that are paid out to private sector employees when the economy is thriving. They don't enjoy pay raises that go above and beyond the outlined step pay increases.

Essentially, they've reduced their risks of fluctuations for a steadier flow of income because they lose out when the economy is doing great. A promotion isn't just handed to you by kissing higher ups' butts. There are processes and procedures that have to be followed to ensure fairness.

Federal bonuses
http://www.wusa9.com/rss/article/20...ich-Govt-Workers-Get-Most-Of-439M--Bonus-Pool


http://www.scu.edu/ethics/practicing/focusareas/government_ethics/introduction/cronyism.html

Favoritism has always been a complaint in government service. In 2002, a survey from the federal government's Office of Personnel Management found that only 36.1 percent of federal workers thought promotions in their work units were based on merit. (Government Executive Magazine, "Playing Favorites," by Brian Friel, October 2004). They believed that connections, partisanship, and other factors played a role.


Cronyism is a more specific form of favoritism, referring to partiality towards friends and associates. As the old saying goes, "It's not what you know but who you know," or, as blogger Danny Ferguson put it, "It's not what you don't know; it's who your college roommate knows." Cronyism occurs within a network of insiders-the "good ol' boys," who confer favors on one another.



Nepotism is an even narrower form of favoritism. Coming from the Italian word for nephew, it covers favoritism to members of the family. Both nepotism and cronyism are often at work when political parties recruit candidates for public office.

 

[unokitty]

While, IMHO, this incorrect statement is sufficiently incorrect that it would be appropriate to classify it as an outright lie, in the spirit of civility I will simply request credible backup of this rather incredible assertion.

Notice the quotations that enclose the first three paragraphs of my original post. Now, notice the link above those paragraphs.

Had you clicked on that link, you would have found the quote that you are questioning verbatim.

You would also have found references to the Federal funding of:

... a reality show in India as part of a program that spent $200 million.
... a $750,000 soccer field for our 171 involuntary guests at Guantanamo Bay.
In addition you would have found references to "a job-training agency employed 2.3 people for every person it trained."

The sequester didn't need to be a big deal. Being from Chicago, its not the first time I've seen this type of political action. Growing up, I learned that if your precinct captain didn't deliver for the democratic mayor, you wouldn't be able to get your sidewalk fixed or your potholes repaired. That's the way that patronage politics work.

Congress didn't deliver for the President. And now, they have to pay.

And the way that the President is going to make Congress pay is by hurting as many of the little people as he can. And making sure that the little people know that they are getting hurt because their congress didn't deliver.

Uno

 

[IronWing]

Notice the quotations that enclose the first three paragraphs of my original post. Now, notice the link above those paragraphs.

Had you clicked on that link, you would have found the quote that you are questioning verbatim.

You would also have found references to the Federal funding of:

... a reality show in India as part of a program that spent $200 million.
... a $750,000 soccer field for our 171 involuntary guests at Guantanamo Bay.
In addition you would have found references to "a job-training agency employed 2.3 people for every person it trained."

And yet, according to the White House, there is no money for school children to tour the White House. Nonetheless, there is money to pay the over $200 billion dollars in current interest on the Federal debt. And according to NPR that debt is set to 'skyrocket.'

The sequester didn't need to be a big deal. But the president decided to hurt as many of the little people as he could. But being from Chicago, its not the first time I've seen this type of political action.

If you think that the sequester is a problem, just wait until interest rates go up...


Uno

The GAO's review of the CATO Institute's report found that the CATO Institute failed to account for education level, years experience, or any other job related factor in developing their report. The feds don't hire too many burger flippers.

The GAO's report noted that the Congressional Budget Office report on federal pay found:

On average, federal workers’ pay was higher than private sector workers’ pay by an unexplained 2%.



Federal workers with a high school education earned pay about 21% higher than similar
private sector workers on average.

Federal workers with professional degrees (e.g., lawyers) or with doctorates earned pay about 23% lower than similar private sector workers.

 

[Bowfinger]

Compared to the pain of millions of private sector jobs lost in the past 4 years? Cry us a river.

Forgive me for refuting talking points with actual data, but private sector employment is up over 2.8 million jobs in the last four years. The job losses have been in the public sector.

 

[Incorruptible]

they don't and they won't because the liberals have a money laundering / union dues racket going with public employment. Where do you think the millions of dollars in SEIU / AFSME / union dues end up?? At the DNC.

True. The moron liberals support these useless idiots so they vote for them and to gain more power. The government workers must feel the same pain as the private sector because right now they are way too entitled

 

[WHAMPOM]

You first dumbass. You have already proven yourself wrong by resorting to personal attacks.

Private security is far more efficient than the government. You dont remember it was the brilliant government that decided to allow the blades to be carried which were eventually used by the hijackers

The TSA is horribly inefficient and allowed many terrorists to go through apparently you dont remember the underwear bomber who was stopped by the passengers

Dumbass!! Can you remember the airline companies that would not pay for a cockpit door capable of keeping an intruder out and the lack of security that existed then?

 

[olds]

Forgive me for refuting talking points with actual data, but private sector employment is up over 2.8 million jobs in the last four years. The job losses have been in the public sector.

Someone has to process the unemployment and welfare checks.
Service don't tend to go down when the economy does.

 

[Elfear]

The 'Agony' of 2.4% Federal Cuts

"Their compensation has in recent years increased much more rapidly than that of private-sector workers whom they now out-earn by more than 100 percent when all pensions and benefits are included. That’s right: your friendly neighborhood regulator gets paid double what the slobs producing goods and services the marketplace actually wants."

Rigghhttt. Most federal jobs that require a Bachelor's degree start you out as a GS-7 which is approximately $36k for most of the U.S. The benefits package probably adds another $10-15k on top of that. How many private sector post-college jobs start you out at $18k/year with $5-7k in benefits?

Like someone else mentioned, most federal blue-collar jobs are paid slightly more (10-16% higher on average IIRC) than their private sector counterparts, those jobs requiring a college degree are roughly equal, and professional jobs (or those that require post-graduate work) are paid less than their private sector equivalents.

 

[Paratus]

At my particular federal government agency they haven't really been allowed to hire out side of the agency in at least 10 years. The few exceptions are the internship programs and occasional contractor conversions. Most of the contractor conversions these days are for critical hires. Which are important because of the mixed contractor, civil servant workforce and continuing contractor cuts.

In addition, to save money, they've closed security gates to cut back on budget meani we have long lines to get in site.

And the really awesome budget cut was when they stopped taking out the garbage from the cubicles. We were all having to dump our own garbage cans into two communal ones that they would dump twice a week.

So I wouldn't say we've been left untouched.

 

[nextJin]

Gov workers don't enjoy bonuses that are paid out to private sector employees when the economy is thriving. They don't enjoy pay raises that go above and beyond the outlined step pay increases.

Essentially, they've reduced their risks of fluctuations for a steadier flow of income because they lose out when the economy is doing great. A promotion isn't just handed to you by kissing higher ups' butts. There are processes and procedures that have to be followed to ensure fairness.

It's also almost impossible to fire them, otherwise I agree.

 

[nextJin]

The 'Agony' of 2.4% Federal Cuts

"If, as our president keeps claiming, “We’re all in this together” and the fat cats should go on a diet, why not start with federal employees?

Their compensation has in recent years increased much more rapidly than that of private-sector workers whom they now out-earn by more than 100 percent when all pensions and benefits are included. That’s right: your friendly neighborhood regulator gets paid double what the slobs producing goods and services the marketplace actually wants.

If President Obama is looking to share the pain Americans are feeling, maybe he could take a deep breath, grit his teeth and decide he can get by with only two staff calligraphers instead of the three he employs at a cost of some $300,000 a year. Maybe the White House doesn’t need to pay more than $100,000 to 226 of its 468 staffers. Even the presidential dog walker earns six figures."

Federal dog walker makes six figures a year? Most I ever made was $225 a month.

Then again, I was never a Democratic Party lackey.

Uno
Sentry Dog Handler
US Army 69-71

A lot of that is because of their various security clearances

 

[dabuddha]

Gov workers don't enjoy bonuses that are paid out to private sector employees when the economy is thriving. They don't enjoy pay raises that go above and beyond the outlined step pay increases.

Essentially, they've reduced their risks of fluctuations for a steadier flow of income because they lose out when the economy is doing great. A promotion isn't just handed to you by kissing higher ups' butts. There are processes and procedures that have to be followed to ensure fairness.

This sums it up well. I never hear private sector employees whining when the economy is doing well and they're getting 4-5 figure bonuses + pay raises etc

I will agree that there is a lot of dead weight in the govt. In my office alone (about 25-30 FTEs or so), I can count at least 2 GS-15s, 4 GS-14s, 6-7 GS-13s that don't do jack shit to earn their pay. I also know of 2 GS-12s and 2-3 GS-13s that are grossly underpaid for the amount/quality of work that they do. Then to top it all off, with sequestration here (and when it was looming) our deputy director was going on travel almost every other week and I can guarantee that none of it was necessary.