Why Newbies shouldnt be given high powered vehicles.... a sad story.

[The Stigenator]

I got more details tonite.

He was exiting the 134W at Forest Lawn. The exit curves to the left and the road isnt exactly "smooth" on exit. Anywya he started to acclerate IN the TURN thus found himself heading for a car .. tried to avoid car, missed car, went off road on the other side, hit a tree stump and flew off..

 

[Turkey]

Originally posted by: BoberFett
For those of you bitching about cycles in general...

Motorcycle accidents are a sad reality. But everybody who rides knows the possibilities, and if they don't they're fools. I run a cycle club and just a couple weeks ago had a guy killed when a dump truck decided to pull into him on a 4 lane road. I got a letter from his wife explaining what happened and regretting that she ever let him get a bike.

I didn't say what I wanted to say to her simply because she didn't need to hear it. What I wanted to say was he was better off riding and dying than living in fear. At least he died happy. I totalled a bike about a year and a half ago. Luckily there were no serious injuries. But within 3 months I was back on a new bike, and within 6 months riding without a helmet or leathers. I could die any number of ways that don't involve a motorcycle, so I'm not going to give up the thing I love doing the most just because it's dangerous. If you want to live to be 100 sucking food through a straw at a nursing home, be my guest. That's not something I'm interested in, so I'm not going to live my life in a padded cell just so I can get there. And there's an awful lot of bikers that feel the same way.

Polish the bell yet again...

Whoa. That is f*cked up. I'm sure if the dealer told him "on x/x/2002, a dump truck will pull out and hit you" he wouldn't have told his wife "at least I can ride till then."

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Turkey
Whoa. That is f*cked up. I'm sure if the dealer told him "on x/x/2002, a dump truck will pull out and hit you" he wouldn't have told his wife "at least I can ride till then."

You probably drive a car, a lot of people die in car accidents. Have you every considered not driving?

 

[Ornery]

Hey BoberFett (and any other riders), when you drive a car, do you use a seat belt and why? Simple questions, no?

 

[txgixer]

Originally posted by: bsobel

Originally posted by: LH
Helmets have been known to cause massive brain damage in motorcycle accidents. Yes they save lives but in alot of cases all they cause is massive brain damage/brain death. The helmet takes the impact, but your brain keeps going, and its twists which causes massive tearing of the brain.

Have a link or reference for your claim?
Bill

 

[SirFshAlot]

You probably drive a car, a lot of people die in car accidents. Have you every considered not driving?

Hey BoberFett (and any other riders), when you drive a car, do you use a seat belt and why? Simple questions, no?

I don't know why this is so hard for some people to grasp...........

riding a motorcyscle carries lots of unnecessary risks; and we, the riders, acknowledge and accept this risk

why?

because it is enjoyable to us in differing ways

if we choose to take a higher risk for doing something that brings us pleasure, why do people that aren't as outgoing so bothered by it?


driving a car is risky to a much lesser degree, and each car has it's risk factor

you could ask Rain Man to formulate the safest driving route, in the safest vehicle, if you really want to reduce all the risks


for people that don't want the risk of a motorcycle, that is very fine to us riders, we aren't offended by your responsible safe choice

I'm too scared to go bungee jump off a 500ft bridge, but I don't begrudge those who have more balls than I to take a risk in their lives to experience such a thrill. If they died doing it, it would be sad, and one could say that they didn't need to put themselves in that position. But that's the difference between living and merely breathing.

 

[bsobel]

Originally posted by: LH
Helmets have been known to cause massive brain damage in motorcycle accidents. Yes they save lives but in alot of cases all they cause is massive brain damage/brain death. The helmet takes the impact, but your brain keeps going, and its twists which causes massive tearing of the brain.

LH, still waiting for a reference for your claim. Oh wait, you probably don't have one since it's not true...
Bill

 

[Ornery]

"...we, the riders, acknowledge and accept this risk..."

why?"

No, do you wear a seat belt in a car? If so, why?

 

[bsobel]

Originally posted by: Ornery
"...we, the riders, acknowledge and accept this risk..."

why?"

No, do you wear a seat belt in a car? If so, why?

Can you kindly stop crapping in this thread and go elsewhere...

 

[The Stigenator]

Originally posted by: Ornery
"...we, the riders, acknowledge and accept this risk..."

why?"

No, do you wear a seat belt in a car? If so, why?

Alright Ornery let me get back to basics.

Here is a wheel O in a side view and -|- in front view.

Now for some physics lessons....

When a wheel is spun there is a centrifugal force that acts on the wheel. Try turning it when its spinning. The faster it spins the harder its to turn it.

This my friend is the basic reason why a motorcycle is so stable in a straight line. When going into curves an advanced rider will "adjust" the speed of teh wheels so he is in a balaenced point where there is enough uprighting force and the turning force. If one is larger than the other the system will fail. The MSF course teaches you one of these turning lessons.. only with practise you will learn to balence a curve.. but its not too hard...

Motorcycle hence is really stable.. if you are afraid of riding a motorcycle borrow a kids bike and ride it. Trust me you will like it.

As for freedom.. there is only one thing you have to expereince it before you thread crap on us.

 

[Ornery]

"As for freedom.. there is only one thing you have to expereince it before you thread crap on us."

You're assuming I NEVER rode... WRONG!

Still never answered a simple fvcking question. Why is that so hard?

We're going to keep seeing these "My friend bought it on a bike" topics over and over again. I ain't "crapping", I'm bumping. It's a good thing for people thinking about riding to see... over and over...

 

[Ultima]

Ornery, what are you getting at? People ride motorcycles for the enjoyment of it, while they probably drive a car for commuting. If they wear seatbelts or not, what does it prove to you? I always wear a seatbelt, I don't have a motorcycle but I do want to get one sometime, I have a bicycle and have gotten in a few mishaps with it. One happened a few months ago and I broke a finger and pulled a muscle (the muscle is still not healed fully). Of course that was only a 20mph crash. Had the same thing happened going 45mph on a bike I probably would have broken an arm or worse, but that's not the point.

The reason I ride that bike and why people ride motorcycles is for the enjoyment of it. If they end up dying so what? It's their choice. How does it affect you? It's not the same as say, for example when you smash into a Honda Accord with your big fat SUV and kill the parents and 2 kids, while leaving yourself unharmed. Now tell me, which is more irresponsible?

 

[bUnMaNGo]

Originally posted by: Ornery
"As for freedom.. there is only one thing you have to expereince it before you thread crap on us."

You're assuming I NEVER rode... WRONG!

Still never answered a simple fvcking question. Why is that so hard?

We're going to keep seeing these "My friend bought it on a bike" topics over and over again. I ain't "crapping", I'm bumping. It's a good thing for people thinking about riding to see... over and over...

Yes I ride a motorcycle and yes I drive a car. I wear a helmet when I ride and buckle my seatbelt as they are both required by law here in California. Not saying that I do either just because the law says to though. I also wear a condom when I have sex with my girlfriend because I don't want to get her pregnant. Just as Ultima said, people ride bikes for the same reason people have sex- it's fun. Both have their risks (losing limbs, death vs pregnancy) but for the same reason I wear a condom and a seatbelt, I wear a helmet- for protection Call me dense but I still don't understand what you're trying to get at. Any more questions?

edit:

it sounds to me like you're a little bitter about something... perhaps you lost a loved one to a riding accident? If so you have my deepest sympathy and condolences.

edit2:

actually, Ultima said that people ride for enjoyment... just to clarify that up I just tried to make an analogy there... sex is fun, riding is fun sorry for any confusion

edit3:

it's been a few days since I read the top of the thread so I found that my edit first edi t was true... sorry

 

[dolph]

wow... i spent 20 minutes on an incredibly articulate and well thought out reply, just to have an error and the whole thing erased. so here's a summary:
first of all, goodguy, my sympathy goes out to you, your friends and their families.

now...
motorcycles. dangerous and fun. we all know it. and motorcycle riders know they have a greater risk of getting hurt/dying, no argument there. but unless you have no friends or family, you're hurting other people besides yourself if you get into an accident. something to consider. (i had a lot of other good points, but i don't feel like typing them all out again. so i'll just cut to the closer) a couple of years ago, i had a friend who loved to ride motorcycles, even after he walked away from what should have been a really bad accident. the day he got into med school, he sold his bikes to buy a car because, in his own words, he felt that his life was too valuable now. i hope this makes some people think about their motorcycle habits, and maybe think about riding less, and safer. 20 years experience won't save you from every accident.

 

[Ornery]

"...which is more irresponsible?"

Whoever caused the accident. Funny, it's always the SUV hitting somebody else in these scenarios. Not quite as effective when it's the other way around, though you know that happens 50% of the time, right?


"If they end up dying so what?"

Good point, but then, why does this thread exist?

Neither you or Bill said why you use a seat belt in a car, and the rest won't even admit it!

The reason I keep bumping this is because so many people don't realize how insanely dangerous riding is. It is usually not the fault of the rider, but that doesn't make them any less dead. Like I said, three acquaintances dead REALLY drives the point home for me. Unlike you, I can't just say, "so what" and leave it at that.

Some people have an inkling of the risk... fine, but I doubt these "newbies" do. You can glorify riding all you want, that's your right, just as it's mine to point out the reality. BTW, I don't start these topics, they just keep coming again and again...

 

[BoberFett]

You are an Ornery bastard, I'll give you that.

Yes, I wear a seatbelt. I also don't eat mayonaisse that's been sitting out on the counter for a month. So? What the hell does that have to do with motorcycling?

 

[Ultima]

Originally posted by: Ornery
"...which is more irresponsible?"

Whoever caused the accident. Funny, it's always the SUV hitting somebody else in these scenarios. Not quite as effective when it's the other way around, though you know that happens 50% of the time, right?


"If they end up dying so what?"

Good point, but then, why does this thread exist?

Neither you or Bill said why you use a seat belt in a car, and the rest won't even admit it!

The reason I keep bumping this is because so many people don't realize how insanely dangerous riding is. It is usually not the fault of the rider, but that doesn't make them any less dead. Like I said, three acquaintances dead REALLY drives the point home for me. Unlike you, I can't just say, "so what" and leave it at that.

Some people have an inkling of the risk... fine, but I doubt these "newbies" do. You can glorify riding all you want, that's your right, just as it's mine to point out the reality. BTW, I don't start these topics, they just keep coming again and again...

Ornery, even if the other driver caused the accident does his family deserve to die for it? It's not just a question of individual responsibility, there's also social responsibility to think of. If a motorcyclist wipes out nobody gets killed but himself (usually). A driver on the other hand runs the risk of maiming his passengers, and the driver of a big vehicle runs a much bigger risk of maiming others be they other drivers, bicyclists, motorcyclists or pedestrians.

Truck drivers have CDL licenses for a reason. I believe that moderately big vehicles such as SUV's should also have a seperate class of driver's license in order to qualify to drive that vehicle. Many people move to SUV's from cars and have no idea how the things react in an emergency, whether it be their fault or not. The conclusion? One more dead family, and not the SUV driver's family.

Oh, and to answer your damn question, I use a seatbelt because it will protect me better in the untimely event that I get into a crash. If I was riding a motorcycle I'd wear a helmet and leathers for the same reason. Seatbelts also helps keep me in my seat when driving like a a*hole ;p

j/k about that, I don't even own a car yet

 

[bsobel]

Neither you or Bill said why you use a seat belt in a car, and the rest won't even admit it!

I thought that was obvious, for the same reason I wear gear when I ride. Minimizing my risk for the situation I'm in.

Bill

 

[SirFshAlot]

Ornery
sometimes I wear a seatbelt, sometimes I don't

what's the big friggin statement gonna be now?


as for the rest, why do y'all think Ornery is crapping, just because he has a different viewpoint?

are we just supposed to have a big group hug here and all agree on everything?

 

[skyking]

I talked to Garen and got a bit more info. Apart from broken rips, a broken back, a broken femur and a friend that he has lost, he also nearly totalled the bike. Well the insurance guy is yet to check it out, but someone said it can be salvaged.

To heck with the bike, I would throw it away without hesitation. Plenty more of those out there.

They were afraid armen may not be able to walk but he can now feel something on his leg. Which is good but its still a lot of theraphy before he can be up and running.

That is terrible. I see all these posts about freedom to do what you want, not wear a helmet, don't want to die in bed, etc. What happens when you get stuck between life and death? Paralyzed, brain damaged, unable even to end your own misery?
My sister's husband is paralyzed, he was a fireman and a building facade fell on him. It is agonizing to watch him, when I knew him as a rock climbing, wrestling ex-green beret
It is your right to ride, but please be careful.

 

[Ornery]

I wasn't going to bump this, but as long as it's up here again...

"It's not just a question of individual responsibility, there's also social responsibility to think of."

Stick my family in a teeny import for the sake of "social responsibility"? Yeah, I'll think about it...

"I believe that moderately big vehicles such as SUV's should also have a seperate class of driver's license in order to qualify to drive that vehicle."

Whose fault is it that cars have shrunk to the size of riding lawn mowers? People who opt to save gas by buying econoboxes ought to take a defensive driving course. Hope that gas savings is worth it!

I'm just wondering why riders would be willing to sacrifice that "sense of freedom" in a car by strapping in? Man, if you're gonna live life on the edge, what the hell?

Lastly, what this is all about, is just to drive home the point of how dangerous this mode of transportation is. Some of you know, but I doubt many who take up riding do. The subject of this topic is NOT rare, believe me!

 

[Johnlee]

My best advice to those who ride is to watch every vehicle around you and try to leave yourself a way out if that Impala comes bearing down on you.

Great advice. I've really only been in one moto accident, that was when I was living in PItt, PA and I walked away from it unharmed. A guy pulled out in front of my bike (A yamaha 750 cruiser at the time) and I had to ride my brakes, fishtailing for awhile, until I got within a foot or two of the car when I jumped off, letting the bike slide harmlessly (relative term) under the offending car. I was shaken up, but was fine apart from some nasty rasberries on my arms.

I have recently purchased a $750 Vanson Jacket that glows in the freaking dark! I have a top of the line Arai helmet and when I ride I do, indeed, watch_ever_single_vehicle around me. I hear stories like this often but it hasn't lessened my love for riding.

TGG-were they here in Glendale? If so, what street, etc?

 

[Jfur]

Originally posted by: vi_edit
I wanted a bike. But after my finacee has come home from work(she's works at a hospital) and she tells me that they've had their 8th motorcycle rider death in 10 days, I'm quickly loosing the itch.

Good for you I would never stop worrying if a loved one was riding a motorcycle. Seen too many people "go" that way

 

[roncarter]

Originally posted by: vi_edit
I wanted a bike. But after my finacee has come home from work(she's works at a hospital) and she tells me that they've had their 8th motorcycle rider death in 10 days, I'm quickly loosing the itch.

same here.. mines a doctor and tells me NASTY STORIES!!!

 

[Ultima]

Originally posted by: Ornery
I wasn't going to bump this, but as long as it's up here again...

"It's not just a question of individual responsibility, there's also social responsibility to think of."

Stick my family in a teeny import for the sake of "social responsibility"? Yeah, I'll think about it...

"I believe that moderately big vehicles such as SUV's should also have a seperate class of driver's license in order to qualify to drive that vehicle."

Whose fault is it that cars have shrunk to the size of riding lawn mowers? People who opt to save gas by buying econoboxes ought to take a defensive driving course. Hope that gas savings is worth it!

I'm just wondering why riders would be willing to sacrifice that "sense of freedom" in a car by strapping in? Man, if you're gonna live life on the edge, what the hell?

Lastly, what this is all about, is just to drive home the point of how dangerous this mode of transportation is. Some of you know, but I doubt many who take up riding do. The subject of this topic is NOT rare, believe me!

You have the freedom to drive your SUV if you so choose. Your opinion of "teeny imports" is your own personal view, and you don't have to drive one if you don't want to. Be aware that your choice negatively affects safety for other road users though, and for that there should be compensation of some sort. First of all, EVERYONE should be required to take defensive driving courses, and second of all, EVERYONE who wants to drive a truck-like vehicle must take special courses to qualify for a different class of driver's license to drive that vehicle.

Large SUV's handle noticably different from small cars. Many people just don't realize this until it's too late. As a side benefit, people who don't truly need a large SUV will opt out of the license and get something else keeping the roadways less congested, air less polluted, and lessening dependence on foreign oil. Okay, maybe it won't make a huge impact but don't you think everyone should be a better driver, and everyone should know how to handle the vehicle they're driving?

If you really think only drivers of small cars need to take defensive driving courses you're a moron and a hypocrite. Large vehicles generally do much more external damage whatever the type of accident. Drivers must ideally be trained to better handle the vehicles, and a seperate license class is one way to do it.